The Dark Knight These two guys keeping it real about the Heath Ledger bandwagon

[DACrowe]

What was the point of this vid? At first I agreed with them that the movie is being marketed too heavily on Ledger's death in media circuits not related to WB directly or the marketing team for this movie at least and the hype is too much around his death in the mainstream. But they're saying people who didn't like his casting shouldn't have the right to like his performance? Or people who say he was a great talent are stupid and full of it? I would never say he could've been the next Brando or Pacino as we will never know (albeit both fizzled out. I'd think he'd want to be the next DeNiro over either of them). I will say he can be comparable to James Dean. Ledger has turned in a handful of great performances in his short career and was nominated for an Oscar already. How is it bad to note he was a talented man?

I think he is a very good actor who died way too young and a great rising potential actor was taken from us. It is sad. But what are they doing if the "media is so dangerous" other than perpetuating what they hate. Obsessing over Ledger. They haven't even really talked about the movie, just Ledger's death. If the performance deserves an Oscar nomination, which I think it does, we SHOULDN'T give it to him because "he wasn't good enough when he was alive?!?!" WTF kind of sense does that make? He obviously was good enough with already one Oscar nomination under his belt. Yeah in 1-4 years people won't be waving Heath banners (which is ridiculous, I give them that). They won't be in six months. But life moves on. There is a difference between showing respect and obsessively "mourning." I understand the disdain for the latter but they essientially said you cannot praise the performance without being blinded by the tragedy of it. I disagree.

 

[BatoutofHell]

You must not have been here during the time the trailer and the prologue hit back in December. Heath's Joker was getting massive praise and that was a good month before he died. To say that he only started getting praise after he died is just nonsense.

Well I was here since before my join date which is May of 07 and I didn't say he wasn't getting praise, thats stupid, of course he was getting loads of praise. I'm not talking about praise, all the praise as far as the role and his acting is 100% valid.

The phony outrage and grief whenever someone says anything other than Ledger is God is ******** and I think disrespectful. Don't damn with fake praise right? Celebrate his work, but don't pretend you knew him.

 

[BatoutofHell]

...but they essientially said you cannot praise the performance without being blinded by the tragedy of it. I disagree.

I would agree with you there, but like I think you said, there is a point at which people need to get over themselves with the, as you put it, obsessive mourning.

I do take issue at the Montel Williams bit. Fact is, he is a has been who no one wanted to hear talk about his politics so he had to weasel his way in on the Ledger issue. Talk about the media taking advantage, he uses Ledger's death to make some point no one wants to hear. The guys a complete idiot, thats actually scientifically provable. He had Sylvia Brown on his show each week. That tells you all you need to know.

 

[Vile]

The phony outrage and grief whenever someone says anything other than Ledger is God is ******** and I think disrespectful. Don't damn with fake praise right? Celebrate his work, but don't pretend you knew him.

Agreed.

 

[Beanjuice]

Exactly thats what i dontunderstand with alot of people. thy act like heath was the greatest thing eve and they feel so sad because he died. I was upset,but that was because i'd been a fan of his work for a long time. now a days people are just upset because his face is now related with the joker

 

[BatoutofHell]

Don't get me wrong, when he died and I heard the news, I'll be honest, I was pretty out of it that whole day, like how I imagine I'll be when Mick Jagger dies, it just seems unreal. Its a real shame hes gone and no doubt he would have done grown as an actor, but again, so many people just go nuts. In another thread people are wishing death on a guy for joking about the bodybag bit. Its too much.

 

[TheDarkVictory]

Man this spoiler board has taken a decidedly negative turn since the film came out.

it has, i think im gonna be peacing out of here until the next flick is being made. all thats left for people to do is ***** and moan and get on their soapboxes and debate whether or not the joker said six or ten. no more fun to be had.

 

[MysterioMenace]

I’ll be the first to say that Ledger completely surpassed my expectations. I thought he was absolutely brilliant in this film. But I do feel that (at least) subconsciously your assessment of the performance is effected by the tragedy of his death. I say this due to the mass amount of over-exaggerated praise he’s receiving. Grated it’s an absolutely wonderful role…but Oscar worthy? Deny all they wish, it’s still a comic book movie nonetheless. I don’t think it’s disrespectful toward the film to call it a comic book movie, I find it disrespectful toward comic books to basically deny that it’s based off of a comic. It undermines that comics can be adult, intelligent, and psychological, as opposed to simplistic children’s stuff. Lets face it right now, Dark Knight is still a comic movie. There is nothing wrong with that. End the fan boy denial right now. Praise has reached a level that’s borderline outrageous. Raising this up to Godfather status is a little extreme. Pssh! I like Dark Knight better…but I know when to check my bias at the door. It’s all too heightened. I don’t doubt that for many it’s because of the death, whether you‘re conscious of it or not.

We’re living in a time when it’s actually popular to be a comic geek. Being a nerd is a current fad. Who thought that day would come? But the fact is that today’s teenagers briefly glance over a comic in the local grocery store…and then suddenly think they’re experts on the mythos. They buy over-priced and gaudy bullcrap at Hot Topic (anything that so much as has a Bat-logo on it) for the social status of designer-labeled dork. So you have little Heath Ledger heathens running rampantly against any Batman continuity that Nolan isn‘t involved in (naturally that means the majority). We’re filled with posers that will leave as soon as it’s no-longer trendy to wear the bat. Excuse me for sounding three times older then I legitimately am, this is a severe pet peeve of mine. I think I’ve got a crotchety old man somewhere in my soul. Now get off my lawn!

Point is that it’s gotten old. Personally it’s never been about respecting Heath. I didn’t know the guy. We weren’t friends. Lets be rational here. He was an actor, not a hero. For me it’s always been the other way around. It's about Heath (and Nolan) respecting the character of the Joker. In turn that’s how they receive my respect. I believe they did the Joker justice, but if they’d failed…I’d not hesitate to speak my disappointment, even in spite of his death. It’s not about the actor. This genre is something more. It's about sending a message, as Heath's Joker would say. It transcends actors and films. This is a modern mythology. This is about the Joker…and he’ll live far beyond Heath Ledger. The actor is flesh and blood, the role is timeless. I respect the role. I respect the comics.

 

[wikum]

Here's how I see it:

Before I'd seen the film...I was all for Ledger getting an Oscar for playing The Joker. I was convinced from what I had seen that once I watched the full film I'd think he merited one. Totally convinced. I built it up in my head that it was going to be better than Daniel Plainview and Anton Chigurh rolled into one.

After seeing The Dark Knight.....I don't think the performance deserves an Oscar. Flame me, whatever....I don't care.

There is nothing wrong with his portrayal whatsoever. Nothing. I would say that he could have had some more screen time with some longer scenes of dialogue. They could have made that interrogation scene absolutely ****ing epic, but they made it too short (not that it was a bad scene by any means). His character has nowhere near the amount that Nicolson's version got, and I am not suggesting for one second he needed that much screen time, but they could have dropped something like the Reese subplot for more Joker IMO.

Using the last two male Oscar winners as a barometer, do I think Heath's Joker is better than Javier Bardem's Chigurh? No. Do I think he's better than Daniel Day Lewis in There Will Be Blood? No.

Johnny Depp did get nominated for his portrayal or Jack Sparrow, so I am not saying he doesn't have any chance whatsoever, hell I'd love Heath to win one just because I'm a huge Joker fan. However, at the end of the day...I think a nomination is as good as it will get.

Johnny Depp was nominated for his

 

[CuppaJoe07]

I won't be bawling if he doesn't win. Even if he gets a nomination is fine by me and that in itself is a great honor. Besides, there will be plenty of other films this year with potential nominees.

 

[Lauryn2000]

Honestly,how many guys went to see BrokeBack Mountain...I had to practically drag my male friend to go.And he squirmed through the whole movie,when he found out Heath was going to play the Joker,he was like WTF?

I thought Brokeback was well done and if he could pull that off..."I dunno how to quit you!".....good grief.....
He should be given the chance....
He pulled off a better Joker than anyone could ever imagine..and go the last laugh..................

 

[Jokerluv]

I disagree. Yeah, I was one of those people who were like, Heath as the Joker, okay....
But you know what, he proved myself and others wrong that were thinking the same thing, so now it's fake of us to appreciate and admit that we were wrong in the beginning? I don't think so. Speaking for myself, because that's all I can, I thought he was an incredible actor even before he was cast, I just couldn't see him as the Joker that's all.

These men are entitled to their opinion, but I think it's wrong that they are so quick to generalize and judge others, but that's just my personal belief.

 

[SheldonLevene]

To be quite honest if he weren't dead the movie may not be doing as good in the B.O. and that's truth, but it wouldn't have affected my opinion of the film or total views in the least. Currently I have seen it five times. If Ledger were alive I still would have thought he was really really good, and still would have seen TDK multiple times.

 

[Showtime]

two-face is dead and your sig is a spoiler isnt that against the rules?

SB-P

What else is against the rules? Do tell.

 

[Spidey-Sean]

I remember people here thinking Heath was likely going to get an Oscar right after we got the teaser trailer, and even before with the remarks from Caine, and early set reports. I think whatever "media bandwagon" these guys are talking about was something we all expected early on, even before Heath died.

Most people I know praising Heath now are the same as those who were praising him before his death. I don't think that video brought up very good points, at least 'round these parts. Most people here aren't monsters, they were just "ahead of the curve".

 

[The_Joker7895]

whoops, double post.

 

[The_Joker7895]

While they make interesting points about morbid curiosity causing a lot of hype, they are kind of taking it all too seriously. The media has had an unspoken slogan for years. "If it bleeds, it leads." On one hand, the guy makes a valid point that Heath's death did affect the public awareness of the film, but he also comes off like he's saying that if you didn't agree with the original casting, you can't say that your mind has been changed. Like another person pointed out, just because someone didn't like the casting choice originally doesn't mean they aren't allowed to have their minds changed. Its like the guy is saying that those who hated the idea don't have the right to enjoy the performance. I am 100% behind Heath winning an oscar for this film. The portrayal was, to me, unlike anything I had ever seen and I was blown away by it. But don't tell other people that they can't say that just because they thought differently long ago. Isn't that, in itself, hypocritical? To say that you aren't a Heath Ledger fan and then admit the performance was great, but turning around and criticizing other for doing the same thing? Hmmm..... me thinks thou doth protest too much.

 

[p4poetic]

It's not so much the Heath Ledger bandwagon that I dislike, but the Joker bandwagon in and out itself. A browsed around Sodahead.com and there's full of them. Even saw a few 'Batman was teh boring character in teh movie, the Joker rulezzz!!!!!!11' and 'Heath Ledger was a better actor than Christian Bale ever'. So these are supposed to be new Batman fans?

That said, I only have to point to naysayers ('you only like Heath because he died...' types) to several threads on ALL forums, not just this one, dated around late 2006-2007 to prove to those detractors under that impression. He only died January of this year, it is really upsetting for people to take all his credit away because of his (unfortunate) death.

 

[TheBatman072]

"Look at us. We're so cool becuase we rally agaist something that everybody loves. You're all sheep and we're so cool and stuff and junk."


You know, there are opinions, and there are stupid people. And sometimes? You just have to *****slap some stupid people.

So, *****slap to them, and then *****slap to a few people in this thread.

Goodnight, and good luck.

 

[Commodore Schmidlapp]

We couldn't let this thread die huh.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Heath was a great actor and i feel his performance in TDK is deffs oscar worthy. I'm not a celebrity obsessed weirdo who has no life of their own, i make my judgement on Heaths ability alone, i'm not influenced by his death atall. I don't mean to be insensitive but i think the saddest part of all this is that Heath won't get the chance to reprise his iconic role, i would of loved to see what else he brings to the joker role in the next film. Alas that won't happen now and that is the thing that makes me sad/angry.

 

[Anjow1060]

Who are the 5 best Jokers of all time?

Dylan.....Dylan....Dylan, Dylan and Dylan. Because I spit hot fire.



- Jow