This is a touchy subject...

[블라스]

I think Moses was really tanned.

 

[Chris Wallace]

THEY WERE IN EGYPT!!!!!!!!!!! Who isn't "tanned" in a desert?

 

[블라스]

Hmm....good point.

 

[Goddessreicho]

What bothers me the most is what KenK said about Cleopatra. WTF! Why is it so important that she be black. As a black person myself, I'm actually insulted. She was nothing but a political screw. Even as a general she blew. She single handedly lost 2/3's of Egypt's navy in a battle against the Romans. Ok, so maby Marc Antony was with her, but they still lost, badly.

Here's the kicker, she didn't commit sucide. Nope. That whole asp thing was a fake out. She was already dead when the snake bit her. I am inclinded to think that A. Ceaser had her murdered.

She was one of the most worthless people to ever rule Egypt. She accomplished nothing but a soap opera.

I can't stand any movie about Cleopatra, no one ever gets anywhere near the truth.

Nefertiti is much cooler. There should be more films about her and her husband, and nephew, King Tut.

 

[KenK]

Well all I was trying to say was that Cleopatra and Jesus generally aren't portrayed by black people because of the overwhelming evidence that says that they aren't black.

I might have been inclinded to agree if KenK had listed historical figures who were black like Nefferetiti, the Queen of Sheba, Wiseman #2...

Well, the issue at hand is this woman whose alive TODAY, and clearly isn't white(not completely). And whether or not Cleapatra was black is irrelevent (if you look at my original post, I never even referred to either Cleopatra or Jesus as black), she more than likely didn't look like Elizabeth Taylor! In fact, coin commisioned with her likeness revealed she didn't really fit what most would consider a "standard of beauty".

 

[The Hero]

Anyone here catch Fox's Method & Red Show a while back? It was a modern-day minstrel show,where the black characters (rappers,of course) did nothing but smoke weed,sleep with white women,and act unbelievable stupid. And,of course,they lived with their bossy,overweight mother who's catchphrase was "Aw,hell nah!" and who frequently warned them about 'dem white women.

That show was demeaning to black people,white people,women,men,and humanity as a whole. I was so f'ning glad when it got cancelled.

This is slightly off-topic,but I just remembered the dumbest part of the show:Their mother called them by their stage names.

 

[Goddessreicho]

Fine, the reporter's wife is bi-racial. But if she signed away her likeness and name to have Jolie play her, its HER perogative.

And in your original post you did imply that Jesus and Cleopatra were black. It is documented over and over again that Cleopatra was born of two Roman parents, who were brother and sister. The coin, as I explained in my post, was minted AFTER she took the crown. She was then portrayed as the Egyptian Royals were.

 

[KenK]

I implied they were "colored". Never was the term "black" used.

And I don't care if she signed away her likeness to have Jolie play her, that just means I have as much reason to be pissed at her as the *******s who even thought to offer the role to Jolie and Jolie for accepting it, in the first place. This is the crap we've been talking about, and as others have stated, there are clearly several instances where we only have ourselves to blame.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Well, the issue at hand is this woman whose alive TODAY, and clearly isn't white(not completely). And whether or not Cleapatra was black is irrelevent (if you look at my original post, I never even referred to either Cleopatra or Jesus as black), she more than likely didn't look like Elizabeth Taylor! In fact, coin commisioned with her likeness revealed she didn't really fit what most would consider a "standard of beauty".

I was going to point out the Liz Taylor thing; I would've also added that Jesus couldn't have looked like the drug dealer in Pulp Fiction, nor would he bear any resemblance to Jim Caviezel.

 

[kane9321]

This is regarding my growing dissatisfaction with movies that have either predominantly black casts, and/or are made by black filmmakers.
What is wrong with these people? Do they really think this mindless tripe is entertaining? If so, it says a lot about my community-none of which is good.
Yesterday a co-worker asked me if I'd seen "Little Man", & when I said I had no interest in seeing it, she went into a rant about how I had a "responsibilty" to support all black films.
That is the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard. As I see it, by not supporting mediocrity, I am demanding better. I am saying that my standards are higher than what I am being offered, so I pass.
Here's what really irks me about it. 40-50 years ago, a black character in any given film was either a slave or a maid. That's because that's all that was available to them. Fast-forward about 20 years, and all you see us playing is pimps, junkies & ****es. Again, that's what was being offered. But now we have an opportunity to change all of that. We have black filmmakers. Black writers, producers & directors. And what do they choose to make? THE SAME THING! The same roles that were being offered to black actors in the 70's by white directors are now being offered by black directors. it's ridiculous. And if we're not getting another rapper starring in another "Hood" movie, we're getting lame comedies filled with ignorant stereotype humor.
How can we ever be taken seriously in Hollywood if this is what we do to ourselves?

bro, i totally agree..especially with the "hood'' moives.If i see tyrese or 50 cent doing another one of these movies..i'll kick my own ass.My soultion is simply...dont pay money to watch this crap

 

[Chris Wallace]

I long ago implemented that solution. But I can't get the message across alone.

 

[Alpha and Omega]

How can we ever be taken seriously in Hollywood if this is what we do to ourselves?

The sad thing is that a lot of people (regardless of race) buy into stereotypes about each race.

This limits the roles that are actually 'greenlit' in hollywood with black casts.

Personally, I don't care what color the performer is, as long as the material is right.

Look at what Steven Spielberg did w/ 'The Color Purple'. Another minority classic was 'Stand and Deliver'.

The problem is that a lot of people are only in it for the money; this is compounded by schticks to appease 'MINDLESS CONSUMERS' who just want a cheap laugh. For some reason, a lot of the mainstream audience seems to perceive minority ventures strictly as comedy. This isn't really helped by the mindset of a lot of African-American media outlets, latino forums, etc. . .

If you look at the disparity between the country's population percentage, and the number of Latino Americans, African Americans, and Asian Americans on TV, Silver Screen, Plays/Musicals, etc. . . , you'll see quite a contrast. I'm not saying that the population ratio is a specific guideline for filmmaking, but it's something to think about.

Another thing is the lack of ingenuity in black filmmaking. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but it's either not expressed or it's not given a chance to showcase itself. Like I said previously, too many films are slapstick comedies (due in part to the writers, typecasting, the inability of Studios to understand that there are many layers to all races, and a lot of the black/latino/asian people themselves who are in their respective fields, and not lobbying for better roles, better material, and greater respect.)

Sadly, (speaking of blacks) if you're not Denzel, Morgan, Don Cheadle, Will Smith, or Halle, you're not going to be considered for A-list roles.
If you're not (latinos heritage) Edward James Olmos, Benjamin Bratt, or Roselyn Sanchez, the same applies.

It's even more difficult in the States for the Asian community to consistently showcase roles in the film and television mediums. There's a lot of great up and coming Asian talent, but most of the films we see are strictly action pics - aka Jet Li or Jackie Chan flicks.

If you're not one of those two, Ziyi Zhang or Ken Watanabe, you probably won't receive steady work as an actor.

There are a lot of reasons to blame for the current deplorable state of black(and minority really) filmmaking. Too many people are unwilling to think outside of their own preconceived notions about life, the public's interests, and how to journey into groundbreaking areas.

Then again, it's not just minority filmmaking. Mainstream Films are pretty bad PERIOD! That's just how it is. The last film that I actually enjoyed was the gritty Irish-Westerner - The Proposition. It's one of the best films I've seen this year, and I see a trend that denotes the arrival of more Westerns and Pirate films in the future.

Honestly, don't really look for things to change quickly, if at all; it's a terrible reality, but too many people develop a 'wait and see' attitude. Why do you think it took so long for a critically acclaimed African-American film biopic? You needed sufficient funding from backers who would bestow upon the project: every advantage it needed to succeed.

The most famous example of this is Ray, and even then, people were upset that a 'white man' was directing a film about a black legend. That doesn't really make any sense; he did a wonderful job. (I don't think that most people really understand or are willing to except that each and every person at their core is the same, and is also potentially capable of the same things. Our environment, conflicting idealisms, religion, and biased opinions cause unnecessary seperation.)

Overall, people in general have to address the bias they each individually have. Every person(you, me, people around us) has them to a certain extent; they're compounded by pressures in every day life, the will to succeed in a highly coveted field, and/or the imperfect traits we each carry. Maybe we don't even realize that we have them. Too many people are willing to just use a stereotype or a generalization, instead of addressing problems, discussing them, and finding a solution. That takes work and we don't live in a work-oriented society - persay - at least in that respect. Like I said, don't expect an overnight change, if any at all.

Why? There's no real effort or cause to inspire the right effect.

 

[James"007"Bond]

Well all I was trying to say was that Cleopatra and Jesus generally aren't portrayed by black people because of the overwhelming evidence that says that they aren't black.

I might have been inclinded to agree if KenK had listed historical figures who were black like Nefferetiti, the Queen of Sheba, Wiseman #2...

Anyone who has a brain and has read the bible should know that Jesus wasn't black nor white. As you said, he was Jewish. The same Jews we see on tv killing and being killed are the same jews from the biblical times.

As for moses, he was not charlton heston's colour nor a tanned version of him. Moses was indeed hebrew but genetically he appeared darker and to add to that he was raised and brought up in Egypt. Pharoh and co were jet black....on another note with regards to wiseman no.2 he wasn't the only black person to show up to see baby Jesus. These wise men were kings and by no means did they travel alone, they each had a huge entourages were many black people showed up.

CW good thread btw.

 

[Alpha and Omega]

Technically, as some people have already mentioned: Jesus was not black or white.

The area of Nazareth where he was born: the natural skin color was a darker olive hue.

Just stating a fact.

Back to the films: I actually read a couple of posts and I would also agree that the best (only plausible) way of the moment to stop studios from putting out this crap is to hit them where it hurts: The Film's Box Office take.

If these films bomb at the box office, eventually the greedy bean counters will wise up and realize that people don't like this s***. Any bad film is an affront to filmmaking, the audience, and the *****e who created it.

 

[Chris Wallace]

The sad thing is that a lot of people (regardless of race) buy into stereotypes about each race.

This limits the roles that are actually 'greenlit' in hollywood with black casts.

Personally, I don't care what color the performer is, as long as the material is right.

Look at what Steven Spielberg did w/ 'The Color Purple'. Another minority classic was 'Stand and Deliver'.

The problem is that a lot of people are only in it for the money; this is compounded by schticks to appease 'MINDLESS CONSUMERS' who just want a cheap laugh. For some reason, a lot of the mainstream audience seems to perceive minority ventures strictly as comedy. This isn't really helped by the mindset of a lot of African-American media outlets, latino forums, etc. . .

If you look at the disparity between the country's population percentage, and the number of Latino Americans, African Americans, and Asian Americans on TV, Silver Screen, Plays/Musicals, etc. . . , you'll see quite a contrast. I'm not saying that the population ratio is a specific guideline for filmmaking, but it's something to think about.

Another thing is the lack of ingenuity in black filmmaking. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but it's either not expressed or it's not given a chance to showcase itself. Like I said previously, too many films are slapstick comedies (due in part to the writers, typecasting, the inability of Studios to understand that there are many layers to all races, and a lot of the black/latino/asian people themselves who are in their respective fields, and not lobbying for better roles, better material, and greater respect.)

Sadly, (speaking of blacks) if you're not Denzel, Morgan, Don Cheadle, Will Smith, or Halle, you're not going to be considered for A-list roles.
If you're not (latinos heritage) Edward James Olmos, Benjamin Bratt, or Roselyn Sanchez, the same applies.

It's even more difficult in the States for the Asian community to consistently showcase roles in the film and television mediums. There's a lot of great up and coming Asian talent, but most of the films we see are strictly action pics - aka Jet Li or Jackie Chan flicks.

If you're not one of those two, Ziyi Zhang or Ken Watanabe, you probably won't receive steady work as an actor.

There are a lot of reasons to blame for the current deplorable state of black(and minority really) filmmaking. Too many people are unwilling to think outside of their own preconceived notions about life, the public's interests, and how to journey into groundbreaking areas.

Then again, it's not just minority filmmaking. Mainstream Films are pretty bad PERIOD! That's just how it is. The last film that I actually enjoyed was the gritty Irish-Westerner - The Proposition. It's one of the best films I've seen this year, and I see a trend that denotes the arrival of more Westerns and Pirate films in the future.

Honestly, don't really look for things to change quickly, if at all; it's a terrible reality, but too many people develop a 'wait and see' attitude. Why do you think it took so long for a critically acclaimed African-American film biopic? You needed sufficient funding from backers who would bestow upon the project: every advantage it needed to succeed.

The most famous example of this is Ray, and even then, people were upset that a 'white man' was directing a film about a black legend. That doesn't really make any sense; he did a wonderful job. (I don't think that most people really understand or are willing to except that each and every person at their core is the same, and is also potentially capable of the same things. Our environment, conflicting idealisms, religion, and biased opinions cause unnecessary seperation.)

Overall, people in general have to address the bias they each individually have. Every person(you, me, people around us) has them to a certain extent; they're compounded by pressures in every day life, the will to succeed in a highly coveted field, and/or the imperfect traits we each carry. Maybe we don't even realize that we have them. Too many people are willing to just use a stereotype or a generalization, instead of addressing problems, discussing them, and finding a solution. That takes work and we don't live in a work-oriented society - persay - at least in that respect. Like I said, don't expect an overnight change, if any at all.

Why? There's no real effort or cause to inspire the right effect.

Okay. I won't comment on most of what you've said here, apart from the fact that I agree 1000&.
I didn't know anyone raised a stink about a white director telling Ray's story & if they did, that's just asinine. The producers of his first records were white & it had no impact on the quality of the music. Same goes for the film.
As for your final remark, I hope to BECOME the "cause to inspire the right effect". There are obviously those among us who want something better or this thread would've died weeks ago. Those of us who want the standard raised have to make our voices heard. And first & foremost it has to be toward the "minority" communities that allow these absurd portrayals to continue by supporting these films, shows, etc. Then & only then, can change begin.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Technically, as some people have already mentioned: Jesus was not black or white.

The area of Nazareth where he was born: the natural skin color was a darker olive hue.

Just stating a fact.

Back to the films: I actually read a couple of posts and I would also agree that the best (only plausible) way of the moment to stop studios from putting out this crap is to hit them where it hurts: The Film's Box Office take.

If these films bomb at the box office, eventually the greedy bean counters will wise up and realize that people don't like this s***. Any bad film is an affront to filmmaking, the audience, and the *****e who created it.

ABSO-MOTHER****IN' LUTELY!!!!

 

[Goddessreicho]

Very true. To think everyday average people rocked the recording insustry and pissed of the RIAA to no other end, so it can happen again.

With skyrocketing budgets, movie stars who cost too much, high gas prices (which effect every-freakin-thing), and the rising cost of tickets, movie makers are quakin in thier boots. With good reason.

I hoping to see some smaller movies where he doesn't have to be the black sidekick, or she doesn't have to be the ****, or he isn't the stereotypical asian action star.

 

[Alpha and Omega]

I know this isn't exactly about the thread topic, but it sort of applies.

If you're looking for a potentially great film, you might want to check out Forest Whitaker's 'The Last King of Scotland'. I've seen the trailer, and it held promise for me.

 

[JackBauer]

Technically, as some people have already mentioned: Jesus was not black or white.

The area of Nazareth where he was born: the natural skin color was a darker olive hue.

Just stating a fact.

Back to the films: I actually read a couple of posts and I would also agree that the best (only plausible) way of the moment to stop studios from putting out this crap is to hit them where it hurts: The Film's Box Office take.

If these films bomb at the box office, eventually the greedy bean counters will wise up and realize that people don't like this s***. Any bad film is an affront to filmmaking, the audience, and the *****e who created it.

y'know, I would've agreed with you if I hadn't read that Green Lantern script review. you'd think the WB would've learned after CINO bombed so badly...

 

[Chris Wallace]

He said "eventually".
Got a link to the review, or would you care to synopsize?

 

[JackBauer]

He said "eventually".
Got a link to the review, or would you care to synopsize?

http://www.iesb.net/index.php?optio...age=1&category=featured&article=122&Itemid=27

the only thing I'll say is: that whole rumour about Jack Black being on the run for GL? that's all the confirmation you need.

 

[Chris Wallace]

A little off-topic, but right now I'm listening to the radio & there's a debate regarding Janet Jackson, & her posing nude for the upcoming Vibe cover. I think it's a bad idea, especially for someone who's been in the business as long as she has. Who comes from such a talented family & is as established as she is. There's no need to do the whole "sex kitten" thing. It's right up there w/Halle wearing that costume in "Catwoman". While women of all races have made the mistake of confusing objectification with empowerment, I think it's worst among black women.

 

[KenK]

A little off-topic, but right now I'm listening to the radio & there's a debate regarding Janet Jackson, & her posing nude for the upcoming Vibe cover. I think it's a bad idea, especially for someone who's been in the business as long as she has. Who comes from such a talented family & is as established as she is. There's no need to do the whole "sex kitten" thing. It's right up there w/Halle wearing that costume in "Catwoman". While women of all races have made the mistake of confusing objectification with empowerment, I think it's worst among black women.

I just think it's redundant. Remember the Rolling Stone cover and album cover to Janet back in '91? My issue with her doing it now is the evidence of her plastic surgery being more apparent now than back in the day.

 

[Chris Wallace]

There's that too.

 

[The Storm]

A little off-topic, but right now I'm listening to the radio & there's a debate regarding Janet Jackson, & her posing nude for the upcoming Vibe cover. I think it's a bad idea, especially for someone who's been in the business as long as she has. Who comes from such a talented family & is as established as she is. There's no need to do the whole "sex kitten" thing. It's right up there w/Halle wearing that costume in "Catwoman". While women of all races have made the mistake of confusing objectification with empowerment, I think it's worst among black women.

Tell that to the women in hip hop videos!