This is a touchy subject...

[Chris Wallace]

D L?

 

[Alpha and Omega]

To quote from Ice Cube's newest cut, The Game Lord:

Did you flip your wig
to let Michael Jackson babysit your kids?

That ***** old as hell
Need to throw the mutha****in' mama in jail

Hahaha; his reference to MJ as a ****** has so many ironic shades of grey.

Simple truth: MJ believes that he is Peter Pan and he's trying to recruit lost boys.

Even though it's not a joke, it practically tells itself.

 

[Frizzo the Clown]

I'm sorry I don't have anything to add, but I just wanted to say that this one of the most interesting, thought out, and thought provoking threads I've read in a long time.

 

[Chris Wallace]

That's what I was going for. I wanted to vent my frustrations & have an intellectually stimulating discussion at the same time. People act like it's so taboo to tlak about anything race-related, like if you voice an opinion you'll be regarded as a racist. Here I opened the floor, welcomed all opinions, & I'm glad I did.

 

[Alpha and Omega]

That's what I was going for. I wanted to vent my frustrations & have an intellectually stimulating discussion at the same time. People act like it's so taboo to tlak about anything race-related, like if you voice an opinion you'll be regarded as a racist. Here I opened the floor, welcomed all opinions, & I'm glad I did.

Well done. It's a great thread.

 

[Chris Wallace]

The co-worker I was referring to in my opening post has outdone herself. I let myself get suckered into another movie debate w/her, in which she dropped the following pearls of wisdom:
"They (the filmmakers) are just keepin' it real!"
I hate that bull$h!t excuse. If that's why we get this nonsense then the reality needs to change.
"That's what makes the money!"
We've covered this one.
"You can't blame the black writers & producers, 'cause a black person don't have nothin' in this country that a white man don't own a part of!"
That's no excuse. We're trapped in this vicious circle of, they only give us the stereotype movies b/c we go to see them, & we go to see the stereotype movie b/c that's all they give us. But nobody seems willing to break the cycle.
And my personal favorite,
"It's just like the movies made off of comic strips. Why they keep makin' those? Because they make money."
Yeah, that's related.
It just so happens she's a fashion design major. I can't help but wonder what she'll do if she makes it into the business & the popular fashion in the black community is string bikini tops & pants like the ones Prince wore in "Thieves In The Temple". Will she just go w/the flow or dare to do something different.

 

[terry78]

^Have you read Rhymefest's recent interview?

http://rap.about.com/od/artists/a/RhymefestConvo_3.htm

There's another where he talks about how white people don't have to do blackface anymore, because a lot of us in the industry already do it on our own.

 

[Chris Wallace]

That's Brilliant.

 

[The Llama]

This is regarding my growing dissatisfaction with movies that have either predominantly black casts, and/or are made by black filmmakers.
What is wrong with these people? Do they really think this mindless tripe is entertaining? If so, it says a lot about my community-none of which is good.
Yesterday a co-worker asked me if I'd seen "Little Man", & when I said I had no interest in seeing it, she went into a rant about how I had a "responsibilty" to support all black films.
That is the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard. As I see it, by not supporting mediocrity, I am demanding better. I am saying that my standards are higher than what I am being offered, so I pass.
Here's what really irks me about it. 40-50 years ago, a black character in any given film was either a slave or a maid. That's because that's all that was available to them. Fast-forward about 20 years, and all you see us playing is pimps, junkies & ****es. Again, that's what was being offered. But now we have an opportunity to change all of that. We have black filmmakers. Black writers, producers & directors. And what do they choose to make? THE SAME THING! The same roles that were being offered to black actors in the 70's by white directors are now being offered by black directors. it's ridiculous. And if we're not getting another rapper starring in another "Hood" movie, we're getting lame comedies filled with ignorant stereotype humor.
How can we ever be taken seriously in Hollywood if this is what we do to ourselves?

I agree completely. Being that I'm white, if I ever said that, everybody would call me racist, but it's good to see someone take a stand against this crap.

 

[terry78]

I agree completely. Being that I'm white, if I ever said that, everybody would call me racist, but it's good to see someone take a stand against this crap.

Would you say it because you honestly want to see better black movies made, or just because you don't like the genre in general?

 

[Chris Wallace]

You should be able to make observations like this regardless of your race. This is one of the reasons I started this thread. I wanted to be able to have an open discussion where all races & all points of view were welcome. The first step toward equality is tolerance.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Would you say it because you honestly want to see better black movies made, or just because you don't like the genre in general?

Good question, terry.

 

[The Llama]

Would you say it because you honestly want to see better black movies made, or just because you don't like the genre in general?

What do you mean by the "genre in general"?

 

[Chris Wallace]

Having had a chance to think about the question, I'm puzzled.
There really is no black "genre"; the types of films I'm speaking out against are basically two categories-the "gangsta/'hood" dramas & the stereotype-riddled comedies that aren't even funny. Making better Black movies would mean pretty much getting rid of the latter altogether, & only making the former if you actually have something to say.

 

[The Llama]

Yeah, same as I think. I don't think there really should be "black movies", just movies that happen to have black characters. I was referring more to the comedies. Chappelle's Show, though I enjoy it, and though I don't think it was intentional, may have brought these black/white stereotypes into popular culture even more. Movies should get to a point where a black character isn't a "black" character, they're just a character. Duane Jones in Night Of The Living Dead is a perfect example. He's portrayed as the most respectable character in the cast, without any black steroype qualities. That's the way it should be. (edit: I don't mean all black characters should be the most respectable in the cast, just that they shouldn't be bound by common expectations.)

 

[Chris Wallace]

I got what you meant, Llama, & you're right. I raised this point earlier in the thread; i'd like to see more "minority" actors in roles that could have just as easily gone to white actors. (e.g. Morpheus) Just to help break out of that damn mold. I wanna see more black characters in movies with white friends. Real friends, not the token white boy of the group or the "wannabe-black". Just regular guys.
A little off-topic, but last night I watched "Madea's Family Reunion". I loved this movie. There were some very powerful & important messages contained in this, like pretty much all of Tyler Perry's work. But at the same time it made me wonder if the message gets lost due to the presentation. Are we too busy laughing to listen?

 

[terry78]

I left out of Idlewild last night and saw it with a predominately black audience, and a lot of them were talking about how it was weird and didn't make sense, and thought it was going to be a serious R-rated comedy, etc. It's basically a more risque version of Moulin Rouge or Chicago, and I for one liked that they took a shot with the project. But it only hit 8th place, so....

 

[Chris Wallace]

Andre doesn't do anything conventional, so I'm not surprised. It sounded pretty much the way you described it. My wife & I are probably gonna catch it sometime this week.

 

[porchmonkey408]

There aren't many great black actors because most of them choose to do crappy crappily. Its their faults.

 

[terry78]

Andre doesn't do anything conventional, so I'm not surprised. It sounded pretty much the way you described it. My wife & I are probably gonna catch it sometime this week.

Yeah, I think if it did win any awards, set design and the overall look would be a lock.

 

[Chris Wallace]

There aren't many great black actors because most of them choose to do crappy crappily. Its their faults.

No, no, no. That's not it at all. Those who have the power to get better roles, by & large do. But the ones who choose crap or aren't in a position to do better get more attention. And those who pretty much have to take whatever they can get, are typically offered the irredeemable ghetto flicks. WHAT IRRITATES ME IS WHEN THEY RECEIVE THESE OFFERS FROM BLACK DIRECTORS.

 

[The Llama]

I got what you meant, Llama, & you're right. I raised this point earlier in the thread; i'd like to see more "minority" actors in roles that could have just as easily gone to white actors. (e.g. Morpheus)

Just as an addition, while I do think black actors shouldn't just be given "black" roles, I don't think they need to change pre-establishedly white characters to black (e.g., Kingpin in 'Daredevil'). I don't by any means think black actors should just get whatever role they want handed to them. If the race of the character doesn't play any part in the story (as was the case with your example, Morpheus), then actors should be chosen based on skill, not race.

 

[Edward Brock]

No, no, no. That's not it at all. Those who have the power to get better roles, by & large do. But the ones who choose crap or aren't in a position to do better get more attention. And those who pretty much have to take whatever they can get, are typically offered the irredeemable ghetto flicks. WHAT IRRITATES ME IS WHEN THEY RECEIVE THESE OFFERS FROM BLACK DIRECTORS.

The Tim Story's and Queen Latifah's of this world don't help much I guess.

 

[The Llama]

Queen Latifah's

Ah yes! That reminds me of another irritating stereotype...the infectiously-fun/outrageous fat black woman.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Just as an addition, while I do think black actors shouldn't just be given "black" roles, I don't think they need to change pre-establishedly white characters to black (e.g., Kingpin in 'Daredevil'). I don't by any means think black actors should just get whatever role they want handed to them. If the race of the character doesn't play any part in the story (as was the case with your example, Morpheus), then actors should be chosen based on skill, not race.

I'm on the fence about characters like Kingpin & Alicia Masters. If they are capable of filling the role, & their race isn't a defining characteristic (e.g., Black Panther) I can live with it. But sometimes it seems like a gratuitous change in the name of diversity (Pete Ross) & that's not right. That's like Hollywood's version of Affirmative Action.