I agree.Especially,since they did it so poorly.That's like Batman Begins.They likely will never do the origin better,better to just give some flashbacks this time.
The only origin that I really think should've been retold was The Hulk.After the crapfest Hulk was,I really wish they would've just told it again,instead of just giving us the flashback intro.It didn't hurt the film,but since Hulk is my favorite character,I just wanted to see them do right by him.
I would pay heavily to read a copy of Schumacher's followup; esp. the one where they envisioned Brad Dourif as the Scarecrow.
Terminator didn't kill anyone, neither did Batman.
Tricking your enemy with a swarm of rapid, biting bats and a barrage of missiles isn't an accident.
The way see it, The Penguin caused his on death
Throwing a handful of coins and causing your enemy to fall to their death isn't an accident, especially when he's on a small enclosure 100s of feet in the air.
Nah, Batman was just generous. "Here, Harvey. Buy yourself a beer or two! Oops, sorry Harvey...(splat). Heh... Can I have my coins back now?"
When you flip a hot rod into a barrel full of flammable explosives in a wooden monestary, what exactly do you expect to happen?
But didn't the ninjas show up later in the movie? I don't believe they died. Still, it is bad writing.
You're driving in a tunnel 100 mph, straight into an incoming truck that is going almost as fast. That's no accident.
True
Growling and bucking a mad man like a bronco to his death isn't an accident when the psychopath is holding his itchy trigger finger to a child's head. (I love Gordon's letter in TDKR "the Batman didn't kill Harvey Dent, he saved my boy", okay Gordon, how exactly did Dent perish then?)
We didn't see everything. Maybe Dent shot himself in the head before he hit the ground
What do you think will happen when you unleash a barrage of gun fire and missiles at a truck with a bomb inside of it?
Yeah, that was stupid
It had machine guns, why wouldn't it have bombs? Cuts in the film make it seem like it's a few seconds, who knows the time frame of it, it certainly wasn't three. If you look, it drives in, has to go threw the gate (passing a thug who . . . . runs at it shooting, then follows), then drive through the loading docks where it shoots through the garage door. It quickly passes 10 - 12 thugs who are on catwalks. The next and final shot has it in a different location, shielding up. What does the next cut show? All those thugs that he passed up are shown running towards it. That takes some time. They all have enough time to catch up and literally surround it. So no, it doesn't drive in and drop a bomb at their feet, that's what it was programmed to do from the get go once it shielded up (which it did before the thugs came into the room it parked at). Batman didn't force them to surround it and fire at it continuously. Their loss. Crime doesn't pay.
Then there's the fact that Batman could have killed Eddie, Nick, 4-5 mobsters, Jack Napier, Joker goons, the Joker himself at the museum, and Bob the goon if he wanted to before the third act. Yet he never did. He even goes as far as grappling a thug at Axis so he doesn't fall to his death over that rail. Coulda just let him fall to his death. So no, not a merciless killer.
And if learning that the Joker killed his parents made him a little blood thirsty for Joker and his men in the final act, can't say I blame him. This guy took his parents away, the gloves are off now. In the few instances the character has come across his parent's killer he always seeks vengeance or retribution. Who wouldn't? Happened in Begins with Chill too (whom Bruce would have killed if the hit lady didn't catch him) and in the comics with Moxon and Chill. Some issues even depict Batman unmasking himself and putting a gun to Chill's head or causing Moxon to run into oncoming traffic instead of just cuffing him. But yeah, Keaton Batman kills nonetheless. And it just wasn't the Golden Age Finger/Kane Bats that killed either. In the 75 years of the characters history he's killed in comics, graphic novels and films purposely and accidentally.
I mean,some excuses can be made in some cases.In most of TDK trilogy,any "deaths" were an act of desperation.In Batman 89,he's a premeditated murderer,pure and simple.That's not what I want to see in a Batman movie.
And killing the Joker's guys from the Batwing was to save people from being poisoned. Kind of what Nolan's Batman did when he shot at Talia's truck, making it fall and she died as a consequence.
The guys at Axis saw this car shooting and they stayed.
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To be fair, Batman got rid of the Smylex before he mowed them down. However, the thugs were shooting at the crowd from and around the float.
As for Nolan's Batman saying his kills were out of "desperation" is nonsense. Even though I don't mind it (I actually really like it) what he does to Ra's is downright sadistic. His cold delivery, "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you", his steely look, Ra's al Ghul's shocked expression. Batman's antics and plans WERE premeditated.
Killing is killing. Both Kilmer and Bale Batman characters are hypocritical with their "rules". Atleast with Keaton Batman he never claimed to be a saint. He never said "no guns, no killing" while having guns mounted all over his vehicles. He never preached that vengeance is a bad thing to his protoge while killing off said protoge's enemy. There was no misinterpretation of morals and ideals with the character. He eradicated crime, plain and simple. He didn't even kill or maim all the bads he came across in the first two hours of the film.
The only Batman that had these principals and stuck to his codes and honor is the Animated Series Batman. He hated guns, never had them in his arsenal and didn't kill, PERIOD. He even saved his enemies from deaths that wouldn't even be his doing. There was no wishy washy grey area or muddled ethics, he did what he said.
So it's alright to murder in cold blood if the victims are complete idiots?
No, but it's his mission to eradicate complete murderers.
Not by becoming a murderer himself.
Yes. Batman saved Gotham by killing Talia.
Again.Two different scenarios.
One: Batman killing out of desperation to stop a bomb from destroying an entire city.(And we don't even know that it was his intention to kill the driver,just stop the truck at all costs)
Two: Killing a factory of 20 or 30 goons,lackeys,Lab workers & hanger's on because of a personal vendetta against the Joker.(That was an ill conceived change of canon to begin with)
Again.Two different scenarios.
One: Batman killing out of desperation to stop a bomb from destroying an entire city.(And we don't even know that it was his intention to kill the driver,just stop the truck at all costs)
Two: Killing a factory of 20 or 30 goons,lackeys,Lab workers & hanger's on because of a personal vendetta against the Joker.(That was an ill conceived change of canon to begin with)
Sorry but I'm not too fond of a lot of your ideas. They're either ideas that I don't care for or ideas that wouldn't have worked in that continuity.
It was necessary from a business standpoint and creative standpoint for the reasons already stated. Plus, seeing as how I never really cared for the pre-Nolan franchise, I'm really happy they did reboot.
To help you out a bit and take some of the negative attention away from you, I'm going to share a controversial opinion as well: I never cared for the Burton continuity. I think Batman '89 and Batman Returns are two of the most overrated CBM's of all time (I didn't count Forever and B&R because they already get enough crap). I'm really not fond of the characterizations, premise, or tone. Batman was going around killing willy-nilly, something that already put me off. Bruce Wayne is too much of a recluse. Gordon was a joke. The Joker was the complete opposite of what I picture the Joker to be. Didn't care for the "twist" on Batman's origin. The actors for Penguin and Catwoman did a fine job with what they were told to do, but I didn't care for their characterizations either. The overall tone was way too kiddish for my taste (violence =/= dark or maturity). I always found it hilarious that Batman TAS was darker and more mature than all 4 Batman films at that time. In terms of looking at them as just stand-alone films, I thought '89 was ok - I adore the visuals/soundtrack and I think the film is enjoyable if in the right mood and want to kill some time - while I thought Returns was straight-up bad. And even though I think '89 is just ok, I still don't understand all the "ER MAH GERD THIS MOVIE IS FANTASTIC AND ONE OF THE BEST CBM'S!" reaction that it often gets.
No, those people were about to poison the city. They were getting ready to mass-poisoning the city in the parade Joker had announced on TV. Batman, of course, had to stop that before it happened, so he went to Axis and destroyed it. Sure, he was late for that so he had to fly over to the parade itself, but damn, he had to try and stop those murderers from killing everyone in Gotham.
Similar scenarios.
Sorry but I'm not too fond of a lot of your ideas. They're either ideas that I don't care for or ideas that wouldn't have worked in that continuity.
It was necessary from a business standpoint and creative standpoint for the reasons already stated. Plus, seeing as how I never really cared for the pre-Nolan franchise, I'm really happy they did reboot.
To help you out a bit and take some of the negative attention away from you, I'm going to share a controversial opinion as well: I never cared for the Burton continuity. I think Batman '89 and Batman Returns are two of the most overrated CBM's of all time (I didn't count Forever and B&R because they already get enough crap). I'm really not fond of the characterizations, premise, or tone. Batman was going around killing willy-nilly, something that already put me off. Bruce Wayne is too much of a recluse. Gordon was a joke. The Joker was the complete opposite of what I picture the Joker to be. Didn't care for the "twist" on Batman's origin. The actors for Penguin and Catwoman did a fine job with what they were told to do, but I didn't care for their characterizations either. The overall tone was way too kiddish for my taste (violence =/= dark or maturity). I always found it hilarious that Batman TAS was darker and more mature than all 4 Batman films at that time. In terms of looking at them as just stand-alone films, I thought '89 was ok - I adore the visuals/soundtrack and I think the film is enjoyable if in the right mood and want to kill some time - while I thought Returns was straight-up bad. And even though I think '89 is just ok, I still don't understand all the "ER MAH GERD THIS MOVIE IS FANTASTIC AND ONE OF THE BEST CBM'S!" reaction that it often gets.
Batman doesn't kill proactively.He's not supposed to kill at ALL,despite the lack of fidelity that rule gets in live action.One of dozens of things Burton got wrong.