Superman Returns WB, Singer, and the Sequel

Showtime

Your Friend In Time
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
41,476
Reaction score
24
Points
58
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/risky_business_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003019246

As summer nears its end, "X-Men: The Last Stand," which nabbed middling reviews, seems to have exceeded expectations with a $441 million worldwide gross, while "Superman Returns" -- though it earned a strong, positive ranking of 76% on RottenTomatoes.com -- has yet to break the $200 million mark domestically. Although "Superman" is still playing overseas with a $347 million worldwide gross to date, it has failed to return on its lofty expectations. The drama behind Bryan Singer's departure from 20th Century Fox's "X-Men" franchise to direct "Superman" for Warner Bros. Pictures left much Sturm und Drang in its wake. But who were the real winners and losers on this deal?

Warners was delighted to poach Singer -- a proven tentpole director with a canny understanding of the action-adventure universe -- from Fox. He was available because Fox Filmed Entertainment co-chairman Tom Rothman had been playing a game of chicken with him on his "Last Stand" deal: Singer wanted to cash in on the final installment of the "X-Men" saga. When Warners lured Singer away with the chance to direct "Superman" and a top-dollar deal -- sources say it was $10 million vs. 7% of the gross -- Rothman was livid. He promptly shut down Singer's Bad Hat Harry Prods. office on the Fox lot -- though Singer returned the next day to the Fox set of his TV series "House."

"We were in a heightened emotional state of mind," Fox president Hutch Parker says. "We believed that Bryan was going to do 'X-Men 3,' and when he made a different choice, it was scary and daunting to be losing someone so essential to the expression of the franchise. We had to rethink how to approach this. There was a lot of anxiety for everybody."

Rather than wait for Singer, Fox made the decision to go full steam ahead. "We needed the movie," Parker says, "and it was critical that it get made in that window. We were wary about where the comic movie would be in the larger cycle."

Fox first proceeded with director Matthew Vaughn and then Brett Ratner to meet the tentpole's original May 26 release date. But it cost the studio to make that target. (According to sources close to the movie, "Last Stand" cost about $168 million after tax rebates.) Producer Lauren Shuler Donner shouldered the burden of wrestling the movie into submission; the studio rushed two pricey screenwriters, Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg, to complete their scripts; and the studio paid dearly to get elaborate visual effects from about six FX houses, including Weta Digital, finished in time. In the short term, the studio clearly won the summer 2006 battle with Warners. But where is the "X-Men" franchise going forward?

Singer was the creative force behind the "X-Men" franchise, and now he's gone. Ratner is not in the picture; the sense in Hollywood is that Fox scored with "Last Stand" despite the director, not because of him. With its "X-Men" actors now too expensive to reassemble, Fox is proceeding with development on two "X-Men" spinoffs, starring Hugh Jackman as Wolverine (David Benioff and David Ayer have written drafts) and Ian McKellen as Magneto. The bloom is definitely off the "X-Men" rose. One could argue that in the long term, the studio would have been better off paying Singer to keep him or waiting to get him back. (Rothman and Singer eventually buried the hatchet over lunch.)

Freed from Fox's tough budget controls ("X-Men" cost $80 million and "X-Men 2" $120 million), Singer was ecstatic to be moving to a studio like Warners, which was willing to let him spend. But at the July 2005 Comic-Con International in San Diego, perhaps in a heady state of jet lag from his long flight from the "Superman" set in Australia, Singer launched the film's marketing campaign on a spectacularly wrong foot, happily proclaiming that the movie he was shooting was the studio's most expensive movie ever and might cost $250 million. From that moment on, Warners marketing tried to manage that number.

In fact, Warners failed to get out from behind that disastrous budget. The Internet ran rampant with reports that the movie was in the $300 million range. When the studio admitted to writing off about $60 million in costs from all the previous iterations of "Superman," some reporters added that to the studio's official $209 million budget -- a figure no one ever believed. If Warners had convinced Singer from the start to make a movie closer to two hours, it might have saved some money and come out ahead, instead of leaving entire $10 million sequences on the cutting-room floor.

"'Superman Returns' will be profitable for us," says Warner Bros. production president Jeff Robinov. "We would have liked it to have made more money, but it reintroduced the character in a great way and was a good launching pad for the next picture. We believe in Bryan and the franchise. Clearly, this was the most emotional and realistic superhero movie ever made."

But what really mattered to Warners was the successful relaunch of its franchise, and to that end they wanted to keep their director happy -- even if it meant letting him deliver a two-hour, 40-minute movie. "If Warners goes ahead with the 'Superman Returns' sequel," says producer Don Murphy ("From Hell"), "then they've ended up well because they've gone from having a wannabe franchise to a real franchise."

Returning to Comic-Con in July, Singer announced that he and Warners are in discussions about doing the sequel for 2009. But Singer said he "had certain issues" with Warners' marketing campaign. He also acknowledged his film's competition. "We had a little 'Pirates' and a little 'Prada.' It is a chick flick to some degree; it is a love story."

As challenging as it was for Singer to re-establish "Superman" by building on Richard Donner's 1978 classic, he also was working with a decidedly retro hero from a bygone time. There was little that Warners marketing could do to make Superman seem less square, wholesome and, finally, old-fashioned. (The "X-Men" and "Pirates of the Caribbean" franchises do seem younger, hipper and more dangerous.) Choosing to reprise Lex Luthor might have been a too-familiar choice as well. "Bryan kicked ass," journalist Cheo Hodari Coker says. "But the principal argument does hold: Does the world really need Superman? Clark is a big blue Boy Scout. I wonder if this generation really has any heroes. Everyone is pushing in some way to be unheroic."

But Singer does know where he has to go with the sequel. He told Comic-Can fans that he would add more "scary sci-fi in the next movie." "We can now go to into the action realm."

While some "Superman Returns" viewers objected to the addition of an illegitimate child of Lois Lane and Superman (which never appeared in any of the comic books), Singer intends to proceed with that story arc. "There's a lot of room to go with that character and his upbringing and human background and Krypton heritage," he says. "He's the genetic material of both parents. Superman doesn't have that. It's hard to write for Superman. He's a tough character to create insurmountable obstacles for. This one is unique and insurmountable." For the sequel, Singer will be able to expand and play around with what he's introduced, and "bring in more of the energy" of the contemporary comics, he promised.

Singer likely will do another movie before the sequel to "Superman Returns," according to sources, possibly Warner Independent's "The Mayor of Castro Street" or "Logan's Run" at the big studio. Finally, though, Warners president Alan Horn and production chief Jeff Robinov want this tentpole director to be making movies on their lot -- and not Fox's. And that may, in the long run, be the real payoff to their "Superman Returns" investment.
 
**** WB, I have given up on a quality Superman movie as long as idoit Singer is on Board there is no hope.
 
Well, apparently Singer will stay as the director for the sequel. :mad: :down

Clearly, this was the most emotional and realistic superhero movie ever made."

shocked-people.jpg


Is he bloody mad??????
 
reposting from the other thread:
Lestat said:
Interesting article from this mornning's Hollywood reporter...many people here will scream it's just a Spin piece, but as far as I know Warners has no financial stake at the Hollywood Reporter ( unlike, say...Entertainment Weekly ) It does seem that Warners does indeed wish to keep Bryan Singer after all....

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/risky_business_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003019246

this is a real good article, gives a complete picture of what's been happening between the X3 and SR franchises that most of us here only heard about in the rumour mill.

Aug. 18, 2006


Fox got bigger hit, but WB happy with Singer

By Anne Thompson

As summer nears its end, "X-Men: The Last Stand," which nabbed middling reviews, seems to have exceeded expectations with a $441 million worldwide gross, while "Superman Returns" -- though it earned a strong, positive ranking of 76% on RottenTomatoes.com -- has yet to break the $200 million mark domestically. Although "Superman" is still playing overseas with a $347 million worldwide gross to date, it has failed to return on its lofty expectations. The drama behind Bryan Singer's departure from 20th Century Fox's "X-Men" franchise to direct "Superman" for Warner Bros. Pictures left much Sturm und Drang in its wake. But who were the real winners and losers on this deal?

Warners was delighted to poach Singer -- a proven tentpole director with a canny understanding of the action-adventure universe -- from Fox. He was available because Fox Filmed Entertainment co-chairman Tom Rothman had been playing a game of chicken with him on his "Last Stand" deal: Singer wanted to cash in on the final installment of the "X-Men" saga. When Warners lured Singer away with the chance to direct "Superman" and a top-dollar deal -- sources say it was $10 million vs. 7% of the gross -- Rothman was livid. He promptly shut down Singer's Bad Hat Harry Prods. office on the Fox lot -- though Singer returned the next day to the Fox set of his TV series "House."

"We were in a heightened emotional state of mind," Fox president Hutch Parker says. "We believed that Bryan was going to do 'X-Men 3,' and when he made a different choice, it was scary and daunting to be losing someone so essential to the expression of the franchise. We had to rethink how to approach this. There was a lot of anxiety for everybody."

now i completely understand where the hate for Rothman comes from. yes he is an idiot for letting the other camp steal their prized possesion. guess you'll never know what you have until you lose it. if Singer had stayed with X3 the possibility of an X4 would have a bit more steam to it like what the potential Spidey4 has right now, no to mention that a Wolverine and Magneto spinoffs could have the same creative resources as the previous X-Men films had, making the whole franchise more consistent in terms of style and storytelling.


Rather than wait for Singer, Fox made the decision to go full steam ahead. "We needed the movie," Parker says, "and it was critical that it get made in that window. We were wary about where the comic movie would be in the larger cycle."

Fox first proceeded with director Matthew Vaughn and then Brett Ratner to meet the tentpole's original May 26 release date. But it cost the studio to make that target. (According to sources close to the movie, "Last Stand" cost about $168 million after tax rebates.) Producer Lauren Shuler Donner shouldered the burden of wrestling the movie into submission; the studio rushed two pricey screenwriters, Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg, to complete their scripts; and the studio paid dearly to get elaborate visual effects from about six FX houses, including Weta Digital, finished in time. In the short term, the studio clearly won the summer 2006 battle with Warners. But where is the "X-Men" franchise going forward?

so instead of Fox saving money by pussyfooting around Singer they actually wound up spending more because they needed X3 for their bottom line. great management there bravo. :rolleyes:

Freed from Fox's tough budget controls ("X-Men" cost $80 million and "X-Men 2" $120 million),
so essentially with SR's budget you could make two summer tentpole movies. no wonder everybody was gawking at SR's pricetag.

Singer was ecstatic to be moving to a studio like Warners, which was willing to let him spend. But at the July 2005 Comic-Con International in San Diego, perhaps in a heady state of jet lag from his long flight from the "Superman" set in Australia, Singer launched the film's marketing campaign on a spectacularly wrong foot, happily proclaiming that the movie he was shooting was the studio's most expensive movie ever and might cost $250 million. From that moment on, Warners marketing tried to manage that number.
is this the spin from the marketing dept? Singer pinned the blame on them at this years SDCC, so they're returning the favor by bringing up that brouhaha from last year?

In fact, Warners failed to get out from behind that disastrous budget. The Internet ran rampant with reports that the movie was in the $300 million range. When the studio admitted to writing off about $60 million in costs from all the previous iterations of "Superman," some reporters added that to the studio's official $209 million budget -- a figure no one ever believed. If Warners had convinced Singer from the start to make a movie closer to two hours, it might have saved some money and come out ahead, instead of leaving entire $10 million sequences on the cutting-room floor.
that sequence is obviously the opening scene of Krypton's remains. i agree that the story could've been thought out better so that they can include this, but to me it has nothing to do with the running time. i cant see how you can keep all the action set pieces currently in SR, add this Krypton sequence and still come up with an intelligent coherent story under two hours. again its spin.

"'Superman Returns' will be profitable for us," says Warner Bros. production president Jeff Robinov. "We would have liked it to have made more money, but it reintroduced the character in a great way and was a good launching pad for the next picture. We believe in Bryan and the franchise. Clearly, this was the most emotional and realistic superhero movie ever made."
emotoional? you bet. who would ever have thought that the day would come when Supes out emo'd Peter Parker? realistic? uh, Robinov must have faulty memory or something, how can he possibly forget that cop movie with a walking Bat?

But what really mattered to Warners was the successful relaunch of its franchise, and to that end they wanted to keep their director happy -- even if it meant letting him deliver a two-hour, 40-minute movie. "If Warners goes ahead with the 'Superman Returns' sequel," says producer Don Murphy ("From Hell"), "then they've ended up well because they've gone from having a wannabe franchise to a real franchise."
that's one good thing that came out from all this mess.

As challenging as it was for Singer to re-establish "Superman" by building on Richard Donner's 1978 classic, he also was working with a decidedly retro hero from a bygone time. There was little that Warners marketing could do to make Superman seem less square, wholesome and, finally, old-fashioned. (The "X-Men" and "Pirates of the Caribbean" franchises do seem younger, hipper and more dangerous.) Choosing to reprise Lex Luthor might have been a too-familiar choice as well.
whoah there. are they blaming the Art Director now? and Kevin Spacey? those are the few points that everybody who's seen SR actually agree on. bah more spin.

"Bryan kicked ass," journalist Cheo Hodari Coker says. "But the principal argument does hold: Does the world really need Superman? Clark is a big blue Boy Scout. I wonder if this generation really has any heroes. Everyone is pushing in some way to be unheroic."
this is where a great marketing team would've really helped: make being a goody-two-shoes cool again.

But Singer does know where he has to go with the sequel. He told Comic-Can fans that he would add more "scary sci-fi in the next movie." "We can now go to into the action realm."

While some "Superman Returns" viewers objected to the addition of an illegitimate child of Lois Lane and Superman (which never appeared in any of the comic books), Singer intends to proceed with that story arc. "There's a lot of room to go with that character and his upbringing and human background and Krypton heritage," he says. "He's the genetic material of both parents. Superman doesn't have that. It's hard to write for Superman. He's a tough character to create insurmountable obstacles for. This one is unique and insurmountable." For the sequel, Singer will be able to expand and play around with what he's introduced, and "bring in more of the energy" of the contemporary comics, he promised.
i had suspected that this is the direction Singer wanted to take the franchise when he brought Jason in. as i have said countless times before, i have no problems with Superman having a child, its how the child was brought into this world and timing by which the child was introduced-- i really would've preffered that the whole Superman's child angle be introduced in the sequels, not in the first film outing after a 20 year hiatus.

Singer likely will do another movie before the sequel to "Superman Returns," according to sources, possibly Warner Independent's "The Mayor of Castro Street" or "Logan's Run" at the big studio. Finally, though, Warners president Alan Horn and production chief Jeff Robinov want this tentpole director to be making movies on their lot -- and not Fox's. And that may, in the long run, be the real payoff to their "Superman Returns" investment.
and that there is the truth.
 
Well, apparently Singer will stay as the director for the sequel

Not necessarily, but it adds some fuel to the fun.
 
I don't know what to think. You have a movie here, that will not break 200 million, no where close. And they want the director back for a sequel ? ( shakes head ). Oh well, if that is what they want all I can say is good luck. It's there money to throw away, not mine. And if they are doing it to keep Singer away from Fox. :eek: . How stupid. They deserve what they get.
 
I have been saying WB is behind Singer the whole way, despite the box office. This article doesn't mean he will be back though.
 
Showtime029 said:
I have been saying WB is behind Singer the whole way, despite the box office. This article doesn't mean he will be back though.

Here's hoping :mad: :up:
 
Substance D said:
three things that don't go together.
LoL.

Indeed, give us someone who is aware there's more to Superman than the original movies.
 
Carp Man said:
I don't know what to think. You have a movie here, that will not break 200 million, no where close. And they want the director back for a sequel ? ( shakes head ). Oh well, if that is what they want all I can say is good luck. It's there money to throw away, not mine. And if they are doing it to keep Singer away from Fox. :eek: . How stupid. They deserve what they get.
WB is good at this stuff. :D

i guess WB took a chance and they see now what they got. if i would be WB i would still have singer as the director but i would tell him how some things to do. where is it written that singer must have 100% control?
 
I thought the film was pretty damn emotional. The scene where Supeman got his ass kicked by Lex's goons almost brought me to tears. The scene where Superman was talking to his son in his sleep. The scene where Superman was falling from the sky after lifting New Krypton into space. The scene where Superman is in the hospital but the doctors can't do anything to help him, those scenes brought my emotions up
 
I agree there were several potent scenes in Returns, that could choke you up.
 
Clearly, this was the most emotional and realistic superhero movie ever made

How can they say that.:confused::confused::confused:
 
I expected nothing less from the infamous anti-SR board... comment wise.
 
dark_b said:
Where is it written that singer must have 100% control?

Exactaly. We are not talking about Gorge Lucas, or Stephen Spielberg here.
 
imagine that... WB is running their studio like a business. Long-term-planning. Imagine if fan-boys ran that studio? Superman & Singer will be back. When Blade 3 came out I got to go to a q&a screening with David Goyer. The topic of the q&a wasn't his movie but Batman Begins and he went off on a wonderful tangent about why WB needs the Superman and Batman franchises... even if they're not astronomical hits. This article touches on that...
 
nothing in that article really surprises me, outside of Robinov's ridiculous comment about this being "the most emotional and realistic superhero movie ever made." That right there should tell you, he's laying it on pretty thick. Yeah the movie will be profitable, but that's a relative term, technically if the film makes the studio $1 over it's cost you can say it's "profitable" and not be lying. The "profit margin" is the real figure you want to know.

SR is still in US theaters (barely) and opening in a few big foreign markets this weekend. Robinov is still going to put on his public face and say everything is "honky dorey," and he's not going to toss Singer under the bus. Any commentary you read while SR is still in theaters is all going to be very controlled by PR, etc. You'll find out how the WB suits and board really feel about this once the film is out of the public eye, by their actions.
 
WB is thinking long term with both Batman and Superman. It makes absolute sense, their way of thinking.

The bottom line is still making a profit. I would think the executives at WB were crazy if Superman Returns pulled in Poseidon money...but that's not the case here.

Sure, it didn't do Pirates, Shrek 2, and Spider-Man money either. But, it's in the same realm is X2 and Batman Begins...and those films are no slouches in terms of how much money they made and the quality of those films....despite Superman's budget.

Either way, WB got what they wanted....a franchise off the ground. Now, all they have to do is get the spending under control and a better marketing team, and the sequel will be just fine....just as The Dark Knight will be fine.

They have two very important franchise characters off the ground...with one single vision behind both...ala Sony's Spider-Man team.

You won't have to worry about the action. Again, from X-Men to X2. That's all that needs to be said.
 
hippie_hunter said:
I thought the film was pretty damn emotional. The scene where Supeman got his ass kicked by Lex's goons almost brought me to tears. The scene where Superman was talking to his son in his sleep. The scene where Superman was falling from the sky after lifting New Krypton into space. The scene where Superman is in the hospital but the doctors can't do anything to help him, those scenes brought my emotions up

supermantampaxco6.gif


:eek::up:
 
hippie_hunter said:
I thought the film was pretty damn emotional. The scene where Supeman got his ass kicked by Lex's goons almost brought me to tears. The scene where Superman was talking to his son in his sleep. The scene where Superman was falling from the sky after lifting New Krypton into space. The scene where Superman is in the hospital but the doctors can't do anything to help him, those scenes brought my emotions up


:up:

Absolutely...I actually heard some sniffles during the beatdown. (Probably teenage girls) My theatre was dead silent during those scenes. Say it's too serious, but I'm glad that everyone was paying attention as far as I saw.

I personally found those moments on par with any emotional scenes in comic book movie history. I know I'm not the only one....I don't know how anyone can walk into this film unbiased and walk out saying those scenes were terrible or out of tandem with 'Does the world need Superman?' tagline the movie threw the audience. If you cared, you got your answer. If you didn't, maybe in 15 years you'll get your restart.
 
hippie_hunter said:
This is almost as bad for being called feminine for liking Inuyasha :(.

I'd hate to see what he thinks of Spiderman 2....or Smallville. :eek:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"