What next for the WWE, does it have a reason to exist?

We can debate the "contribution" of certain things all day long. I'm sure some people wouldn't shed a tear if the WWE building in Stamford, CT blew up tomorrow and there are some who would weep uncontrollably. I might not like curling or Wal-Mart or Linux, but I certainly wouldn't want those things banned or shut down because as many people hate those things there are just as many who support it.
 
BlackLantern said:
We can debate the "contribution" of certain things all day long. I'm sure some people wouldn't shed a tear if the WWE building in Stamford, CT blew up tomorrow and there are some who would weep uncontrollably. I might not like curling or Wal-Mart or Linux, but I certainly wouldn't want those things banned or shut down because as many people hate those things there are just as many who support it.
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They don't promote an image that leads to kids taking life threatening drugs which can cause them to become depressed and paranoid. What's your point?
 
Kids are impressionable yes, but you can't blame the media, the WWE, or anyone else if a child, nay anyone, DECIDES to take any drug, be it steroids, cocaine or what have you.

As far as the Benoit situation, I have DECIDED to not watch any wrestling for awhile....its that whole "power to choose" thing
 
BlackLantern said:
Kids are impressionable yes, but you can't blame the media, the WWE, or anyone else if a child, nay anyone, DECIDES to take any drug, be it steroids, cocaine or what have you.
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"Advertising" helps people decide.

BlackLantern said:
As far as the Benoit situation, I have DECIDED to not watch any wrestling for awhile....its that whole "power to choose" thing
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good choice
 
Advertising is a "suggestion". It says "hey...try this" not "try this now or i'll kill your family"
 
We haven't had cig commercials in the US since the 50's or 60's. Speaking of which, I'm not a smoker by the way, but all these anti-smoking ads i see on TV here. Smokes are bad, everyone knows it or should know it so its like commercial, commercial, anti-smoking ad, commercial, anti-smoking ad. Even has it on the label...i guess i'm tired of the left permeating my TV
 
BlackLantern said:
We haven't had cig commercials in the US since the 50's or 60's. Speaking of which, I'm not a smoker by the way, but all these anti-smoking ads i see on TV here. Smokes are bad, everyone knows it or should know it so its like commercial, commercial, anti-smoking ad, commercial, anti-smoking ad. Even has it on the label...i guess i'm tired of the left permeating my TV
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You see in the U.K. we no longer have left and right in politics we just have the "nanny state". However I do think advertising cigarettes is something we don't need back. I would have no problem with these guys playfighting if they removed the "story" element, got them off the gear and stopped promoting the "steroid image". These are the things with which I have a problem with the WWE over.
 
It's like we are getting 2 different looks at the same thing here. We have current and former WWE employees saying that the drug policy is adequate, that an independent compnay comes in at random and does testing, as evidenced by certain wrestlers being suspended immediately. Then you have former WWE employees going on and on about the drugs and the abuse that went on when they worked there. Maybe it's both, maybe Vince and the powers that be there used to let the performers do whatever as long as they showed up then realized this isn't good business and cleaned up.
 
BlackLantern said:
It's like we are getting 2 different looks at the same thing here. We have current and former WWE employees saying that the drug policy is adequate, that an independent compnay comes in at random and does testing, as evidenced by certain wrestlers being suspended immediately. Then you have former WWE employees going on and on about the drugs and the abuse that went on when they worked there. Maybe it's both, maybe Vince and the powers that be there used to let the performers do whatever as long as they showed up then realized this isn't good business and cleaned up.
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Or maybe it's much more sinister.
 
Do you think the Vince and the WWE are sitting in a dark room, twirling their moustaches? What do you think is going on???
 
BlackLantern said:
Do you think the Vince and the WWE are sitting in a dark room, twirling their moustaches? What do you think is going on???
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I think it's a case of damage control at the moment. He createda "product" based on the supposed viability of using those who look and behave as "thugs" on camera. These are gym "freaks", narcissists that revel in people thinking they are their character and by their nature these type of people often explode or self destruct. You only have to belong to a gym to have seen people do this. In the WWE it's more public. By not encouraging this image and building his business on it, Mcmahon has built his bussiness from a pile of billion dollar sticks. He can distance himself from Benoit, Davey Boy Smith etc. But excrement sticks particularly when an individual has smeared themselves in it.
 
Davey Boy Smith had not been employed by the WWE almost 7 years before his death. He spent some time in WCW, then, if my memory serves, wrestled back in England. Not trying to vindicate the WWE, but there have been plenty of premature deaths in wrestling concerning individuals who were never employed by the WWE. If the whole industry as a whole is broken, then let's fix it. The WWE just has the unfortunate position of being the biggest bull in the yard
 
BlackLantern said:
Davey Boy Smith had not been employed by the WWE almost 7 years before his death. He spent some time in WCW, then, if my memory serves, wrestled back in England. Not trying to vindicate the WWE, but there have been plenty of premature deaths in wrestling concerning individuals who were never employed by the WWE. If the whole industry as a whole is broken, then let's fix it. The WWE just has the unfortunate position of being the biggest bull in the yard
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The WWE built its house of cards on freaks. Causality.
 
so then let's just nuke it all. shut down every pro wrestling company even those that don't promote the steroid image..? i dont think thats the answer either
 
BlackLantern said:
so then let's just nuke it all. shut down every pro wrestling company even those that don't promote the steroid image..? i dont think thats the answer either
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Who said that? I also think the WWE promotes bullying and might makes right with it's "plotlines".
 
I think the bullying is a little much. It is wrestling after all. Do you expect them to break out a table and have a meaningful conversation? WWE programming is rated TV 14....but it doesn't mean alot and younger kids are watching it. any GOOD parent would talk with the kid(s) and explain "this is just tv, you don't do this at home or at school"
 
Whirlysplat said:
By removing the steroid users from public sight. The aspiring "entertainers" will perhaps no longer feel that they need to look like a freak. Simple really.
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You are trying to put a band-aid on bullet wound. Prevention is the only viable avenue to taken. If only one company is regulated, even the biggest one, NOTHING WILL CHANGE. If Congress really wants to help, they'll look into changing the use of ALL recreational drugs, including rampant alcoholism, in professional wrestling as a whole. IF they take any other approach, it's completely and utterly useless.
 
Whirlysplat said:
Who said that? I also think the WWE promotes bullying and might makes right with it's "plotlines".
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I'm just floored by your lack of logic. I noticed that in your first post, you held up the UFC as a beacon of "wholesome" entertainment. So, in your mind, it's fine to watch a show where REAL people who have REAL grudges ( see Ortiz-Shamrock, Penn-Pulver, Tank Abbot..and, well, everyone ), have REAL wars of words, and inflict REAL violence upon each other. However, if two characters on a pro wrestling show are involved in a worked feud where the confrontations are part of the show, that's "promotes bullying". :whatever: :whatever: :whatever:
 
49erVenom said:
I'm just floored by your lack of logic. I noticed that in your first post, you held up the UFC as a beacon of "wholesome" entertainment. So, in your mind, it's fine to watch a show where REAL people who have REAL grudges ( see Ortiz-Shamrock, Penn-Pulver, Tank Abbot..and, well, everyone ), have REAL wars of words, and inflict REAL violence upon each other. However, if two characters on a pro wrestling show are involved in a worked feud where the confrontations are part of the show, that's "promotes bullying". :whatever: :whatever: :whatever:
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Yes, wars of words in pro Boxing and the UFC which are settled in the ring under rules, are very different to an entertainment show which advocates breaking the rules. It also shows the use of weapons multiple thugs attacking individuals who are often supposed to be injured. The use of ambushes and humiliation and emasculation of "opponents", these seem the stock in trade plotlines for the WWE with the heel characters often winning using these techniques.
 
Whirlysplat said:
Yes, wars of words in pro Boxing and the UFC which are settled in the ring under rules, are very different to an entertainment show which advocates breaking the rules. It also shows the use of weapons multiple thugs attacking individuals who are often supposed to be injured. The use of ambushes and humiliation and emasculation of "opponents", these seem the stock in trade plotlines for the WWE with the heel characters often winning using these techniques.
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WWE is ENTERTAINMENT. It doesn't "advocate" anything. It's sole purpose is to tell a story. Your assertion is like saying Stan Lee advocates violence against women because Gwen Stacy was killed in the Spiderman comics. And once again I find it ironic that you are on a board that highlights movies loaded with "ambushes and humilations" by comic book villains, often with much more gore, projectile weapons, and death, but are somehow offended when it happens on a wrestling show.
Furthermore, you still can't get around the point that if WWE were to be banned for it's cartoonish, staged violence then any show that showcases real violence must also be banned by extension. That means goodbye UFC. The fact is WWE carries a TV-14 rating on US TV. It doesn't even quality for the TV-M (mature) rating reserved for the shows that deal with the most adult material. Yet somehow people like yourself target it as the downfall of western civilization. Pro Wrestling has always been singled out by those who do not understand it.
 
49erVenom said:
WWE is ENTERTAINMENT. It doesn't "advocate" anything. It's sole purpose is to tell a story. Your assertion is like saying Stan Lee advocates violence against women because Gwen Stacy was killed in the Spiderman comics. And once again I find it ironic that you are on a board that highlights movies loaded with "ambushes and humilations" by comic book villains, often with much more gore, projectile weapons, and death, but are somehow offended when it happens on a wrestling show.
Furthermore, you still can't get around the point that if WWE were to be banned for it's cartoonish, staged violence then any show that showcases real violence must also be banned by extension. That means goodbye UFC. The fact is WWE carries a TV-14 rating on US TV. It doesn't even quality for the TV-M (mature) rating reserved for the shows that deal with the most adult material. Yet somehow people like yourself target it as the downfall of western civilization. Pro Wrestling has always been singled out by those who do not understand it.
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Do you think many people over 14 watch this Entertainment. It's staged violence and abhorrent behaviour is a completly different to trained athletes competing in a ring or a cage. Comic books do not affect children the same way as the message in most comics is good guys win, and no Gwen Stacy and the majority of comics have a moral message. Wrestlings message is completely different. I don't understand pro wrestling you're right in that, it seems to pander to the most bas behaviour with messages both in plots and real life (with the likes of the steroid fiascos) cheaters prosper and it's O.K. to be a bullying thug.
 
Whirlysplat said:
Do you think many people over 14 watch this Entertainment. It's staged violence and abhorrent behaviour is a completly different to trained athletes competing in a ring or a cage. Comic books do not affect children the same way as the message in most comics is good guys win, and no Gwen Stacy and the majority of comics have a moral message. Wrestlings message is completely different. I don't understand pro wrestling you're right in that, it seems to pander to the most bas behaviour with messages both in plots and real life (with the likes of the steroid fiascos) cheaters prosper and it's O.K. to be a bullying thug.
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Pro wrestling's core audience is males, age 18-49. And it's not just American audiences.
Your statement that comic book's "don't affect children in the same way" is just a sweeping opinion. That FACT is that every comic book movie I have ever seen featured guns, explosions and deaths. In 30 years as a wrestling fan, I've seen ONE gun used in an angle and ONE death angle. I've never seen a wrestler get gored, riddled with bullets or incinerated. All of these things have taken place in the Spider-man, X-Men, Blade and Batman franchises. Comic book villians are far worse "bullying thugs" than wrestling heels.
And you are right about pro wrestling being "completely different" than the violence of the UFC. Real violence is worse, plain and simple. Pro wrestlers don't enter their craft with the intention of pummeling an opponent into surrender, locking out a part of his body in an unnatural fashion until he submits or diminishing his airflow until he taps. As a martial artist, I certainly respect UFC combatants but as a parent, I can also easily see that UFC is one of the least appropriate things on TV for a child to watch. Wrestling is too but UFC is worse.
As far as your assertion that wrestler's real lives set a bad example, do I really need to compare it to professional sports and Hollywood? If your worry is the message that "cheaters prosper", don't look to a worked show. Look to all the numerous athletes across all the pro sports that have tried to gain a COMPETITIVE advantage but using performance enhancing drugs. Moreover, if you are so concerned about such behavior, I'm sure you did a backgroud check and would never watch a movie that featured an actor or director that used steroids ( there are many, including the governor of California ), used cocaine, marijuana or had a drinking problem, right? You did your homework since you have taken such a position, right?
 
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