Days of Future Past Which Beast do you prefer? Kelsey Grammer's Classic Beast or Nicholas Hoult's Cat?

[GRangerPrimeNYC]

As long as they (Fox) make good movies and in turn make money(due to people seeing it) they'll continue to make movies I feel indefinitely. If fans really felt that strongly about the X-Men returning to Marvel we just won't go see, not support and sabotage any positive mention similar to XO-W as a united unit They'd no longer would feel the X-Men were profitable and stop making movies and they'd revert in 7 or so years. But, here is the downside of that. Unlike Spider-Man,The Fantastic Four and the soon to be reverted Daredevil, It'll be near impossible through Phase 1,2 and even three to explain where mutants were when the Chitauri attacked NY,when the Lizard took over the Brooklyn Bridge/Eastside of Manhattan (which S.H.E.I.L.D 's non presence could be explained) and Thanos impending threat to the Earth. So you would have to reboot the whole Marvel universe to include super powered Mutants. So, I strongly support FOX holding on the The X-Men, refute all mentions of the X-Men to be included in the MCU continuity and pray they do it right COSTUMES AND ALL..

Easy, they can say the mutant population is only in the hundreds, not the millions and that the X-Men didn't arrive to those events, since why do they have to?

 

[Dr Tactics]

Easy, they can say the mutant population is only in the hundreds, not the millions and that the X-Men didn't arrive to those events, since why do they have to?

Can't buy that because the threat that S.H.E.I.L.D is worried in he MCU about is mostly from global cosmic threats. If there were a Mutant population(X-Genes) at the same time they'd already be on guard(and actively studying) based on the earthly threat posed by possible rouge super-powered mutants. They're not mentioned because they don't exist in that world nor can they at this point with out a major retcon or reboot(s). It would be a real difficult sale and IMO not worth it.

But, This is the wrong forum to debate this point..

 

[Great Mind(s)]

This is why I always believed mutants and the X-Men should be in their OWN separate universe. The mutant concept is really shattered when you have Spider-Man and superheroes and other things. Thank god Marvel doesn't have the rights. Not that I don't love Marvel and The Avengers and all the movies too, I do!

 

[X-Maniac]

It's a pointless debate anyway because it won't happen.

The latest news of Mark Millar being hired to offer creative input on X-Men and Fantastic Four is a big sign that Fox is not letting go of anything and intends to (finally) map out these franchises properly and not stray too far from the source material.

Good films + cohesive continuity/structure + comic book respect = a win-win situation

 

[Dr Tactics]

It's a pointless debate anyway because it won't happen.

The latest news of Mark Millar being hired to offer creative input on X-Men and Fantastic Four is a big sign that Fox is not letting go of anything and intends to (finally) map out these franchises properly and not stray too far from the source material.

Good films + cohesive continuity/structure + comic book respect = a win-win situation

Like the signs they had intentions to keep DD when they hired Joe Carnahan for Daredevil reboot. Fox does a lot of posturing sometimes you gotta admit. And, you (all) know like I know that they need to hand over the FF to the MCU. Fox can profit more by Marketing and distributing and letting Marvel handles the production They know what the Marvel money maker for Fox is and it's all in the Mutants and not the Cosmic.. Marvel Studio's got that cornered

That should be Mark Millar's first advice to them.. Let them go.. It's doing nothing for them to play keep away and will do nothing for them for the long term.

 

[X-Maniac]

Like the signs they had intentions to keep DD when they hired Joe Carnahan for Daredevil reboot. Fox does a lot of posturing sometimes you gotta admit. And, you (all) know like I know that they need to hand over the FF to the MCU. Fox can profit more by Marketing and distributing and letting Marvel handles the production They know what the Marvel money maker for Fox is and it's all in the Mutants and not the Cosmic.. Marvel Studio's got that cornered

That should be Mark Millar's first advice to them.. Let them go.. It's doing nothing for them to play keep away and will do nothing for them for the long term.

All studios do their fair share of posturing. But at least that posturing came in the form of an official press release not some rumour on a comic site. It probably seems more like posturing because it was done in such a formal fashion.

I'd be interested to hear if they did actually did allow the rights to lapse on Daredevil in the end. He appears in some of Millar's Ultimate X-Men titles.

I don't think they will let go of Fantastic Four. Millar wrote Ultimate Fantastic Four for a start. And there's potential with Dr Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer (only Surfer was done well the first time around!) - plus Sue and Reed's son Franklin Richards is a mutant who appears in DoFP.

Interestingly, in Ultimate Fantastic Four they don't get their powers on a space mission but instead from the parallel universe of the Negative Zone, so we can expect that to feature in the reboot.

You're right that the X-Men is more than enough to deal with (team movies plus spin-offs for Wolverine, Deadpool, etc). But I think Fox must have some grand plan in mind if they want to hold on to the rights, which it seems they do judging from that press release.

I wonder also if Sony will let go of Ghost Rider after the abomination of the last movie.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Fox Isn't just going to hand over any property to another studio to make money off of.Neither Disney nor Fox cares too much about Daredevil.Disney was going to let fox keep
Daredevil In exchange for Galactus and Silver surfer.

As I have said before Marvel studios primary focus Is on Avengers related films.With Fox FF could be summer 2015 tentpole at disney who knows when It would be made.How long has Marvel been promsing Ant-man? edgar wright Is doing another film before that.
Ant-Man Isn't coming before the Avengers sequel.

I am not exactly wild about Mark Millar as consulant on fox marvel films since his work for marvel has almost exclusivly been In Ultimate Universe.

We may see some hint of FF in DOFP future scenes.

 

[Dr Tactics]

I'd be interested to hear if they did actually did allow the rights to lapse on Daredevil in the end. He appears in some of Millar's Ultimate X-Men titles.

They didn't allow anything. Time just ran out and they didn't even have a director to start principle photography before Oct. But, more interesting is the rumor that Marvel had already gave extensions to get DD in production which brings to question how long in between movies do they have to get the movies in front on cameras cause there was 7 years between Elektra and now.

I don't think they will let go of Fantastic Four. Millar wrote Ultimate Fantastic Four for a start. And there's potential with Dr Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer (only Surfer was done well the first time around!) - plus Sue and Reed's son Franklin Richards is a mutant who appears in DoFP.

The question before them, is there a demand for the Fantastic Four without the help of the demand garnered by the MCU as a whole? I've always just said that launching this reboot independent of what Marvel/Disney is doing is a big financial risk. Marvel is in a 1.5 Billion position to take a risk ala GOTG but The Fantastic Four reboot is being preceded by Tim Story's FF disappointments. The Fanboys are about the respectful comicbook and character conversion while the GA is all about the Hype. Marvels MCU has all the hype momentum now with IM3 next year and the cosmic entities dealing with Thanos has that market cornered. So it's "get down or be put down" at this point

You're right that the X-Men is more than enough to deal with (team movies plus spin-offs for Wolverine, Deadpool, etc). But I think Fox must have some grand plan in mind if they want to hold on to the rights, which it seems they do judging from that press release.

They very well have a grand plan. The wisdom behind that plan is still a very big question mark which is typical with Fox's Marvel properties and how they're presented to the public

 

[X-Maniac]

They didn't allow anything. Time just ran out and they didn't even have a director to start principle photography before Oct.

No, they did have a director (Carnahan) but they would not feasibly have been able to get the film cast and into production by the deadline. We don't know if any other deals have been done to extend it, we haven't yet heard anything for definite. So we can assume that they ALLOWED the rights to lapse rather than rush something together.

But, more interesting is the rumor that Marvel had already gave extensions to get DD in production which brings to question how long in between movies do they have to get the movies in front on cameras cause there was 7 years between Elektra and now.

Who knows what the contracts say?! No one except the parties involved. Neither Marvel nor Fox has been sharing that information publicly.

The question before them, is there a demand for the Fantastic Four without the help of the demand garnered by the MCU as a whole? I've always just said that launching this reboot independent of what Marvel/Disney is doing is a big financial risk. Marvel is in a 1.5 Billion position to take a risk ala GOTG but The Fantastic Four reboot is being preceded by Tim Story's FF disappointments. The Fanboys are about the respectful comicbook and character conversion while the GA is all about the Hype. Marvels MCU has all the hype momentum now with IM3 next year and the cosmic entities dealing with Thanos has that market cornered. So it's "get down or be put down" at this point

Tim Story's films were many years ago. The mainstream viewers have forgotten about them for the most part. I never heard bad words about them from colleagues at the time (I even heard a co-worker say recently they preferred FF to what DC did with Green Lantern) but they weren't exactly fantastically memorable either. Sort of what fanboys and the internet illiterati ® would call 'meh'

They very well have a grand plan. The wisdom behind that plan is still a very big question mark which is typical with Fox's Marvel properties and how they're presented to the public

They're under no obligation to reveal that plan either, so it may well remain a question mark. But they appear to have one, hence that press release. Rothman has gone, Millar has arrived - clearly they are up to something! Whereas Marvel is fairly transparent about its production slate (it's all part of the endlessssssss hype and keeping things in the public consciousness, though I confess i'm not feeling excited about any of phase 2 to be honest), other studios aren't.

Let's see what happens.

 

[Dr Tactics]

They're under no obligation to reveal that plan either, so it may well remain a question mark. But they appear to have one, hence that press release. Rothman has gone, Millar has arrived - clearly they are up to something! Whereas Marvel is fairly transparent about its production slate (it's all part of the endlessssssss hype and keeping things in the public consciousness, though I confess i'm not feeling excited about any of phase 2 to be honest), other studios aren't.

Let's see what happens.

That "not feeling excited" feeling you shared reminded me of how not excited I felt about TF-DOTM. But due to the hype It made a $%!& load of Box Office money off of HYPE alone. Needless to say I was dumbfounded.. Anywho, I say this because regardless of the interest level we may feel about Phase 2, opening weekend for IM3 is gonna be a Madhouse. And I predict the same for Wolverine and Thor (And Wolverine in spite of XMO:W cause XM-FC breathed new life into the franchise). They might have a great thought plan but when you put into motion the 7 year window before rights revert they got to be shooting by the end of next year for a 2015 release next (or VS however you wanna look at it) to AVATAR 2 (and 3 i think) Avengers 2 (Hit TV show in tow by then too), and the Hunger Games sequel

Wisdom might later dictate the direction their Grand Plans. With their equally grand announcements they seem to be "Shooting First and Aiming Later"

We shall see...

 

[X-Maniac]

That "not feeling excited" feeling you shared reminded me of how not excited I felt about TF-DOTM. But due to the hype It made a $%!& load of Box Office money off of HYPE alone. Needless to say I was dumbfounded.. Anywho, I say this because regardless of the interest level we may feel about Phase 2, opening weekend for IM3 is gonna be a Madhouse. And I predict the same for Wolverine and Thor (And Wolverine in spite of XMO:W cause XM-FC breathed new life into the franchise). They might have a great thought plan but when you put into motion the 7 year window before rights revert they got to be shooting by the end of next year for a 2015 release next (or VS however you wanna look at it) to AVATAR 2 (and 3 i think) Avengers 2 (Hit TV show in tow by then too), and the Hunger Games sequel

Wisdom might later dictate the direction their Grand Plans. With their equally grand announcements they seem to be "Shooting First and Aiming Later"

We shall see...

Oh the Phase 2 will definitely do well at the box office, providing they can overcome the challenge of explaining why they Avengers aren't constantly popping up to help each other in each other's movies.

At least Fox's new thinking will create a more coherent cinematic world. The previous one-film-at-a-time approach has ended up creating patchy continuity and, for audiences, an uncertainty about what is coming next. I'm all for Fox having an overall strategy and a bit of forward thinking; it's just a shame it's taken this long for them to get on board with that idea. It's something I've been pleading for on here for years and years and years.

The X-Men franchise has a lot going for it - some great casting and the best of all Marvel's villains (Magneto). Tom Hiddleston's Loki doesn't come anywhere near to McKellen/Fassbender's Magneto. People can relate more to a damaged human (and concentration camp survivor) than the theatrics of Asgardian alien Loki being 'burdened with glorious purpose'.

It's weird that several people I know at work who saw Avengers found it superficial and trivial and it didn't meet their expectations at all. This week, a guy in the office who bought the DVD (and had missed seeing it at the cinema) said he was bitterly disappointed. Even Whedon himself said it wasn't a great movie, just 'a great time'. I think that simplistic fun was part of what gave it broad appeal. Just like Transformers. Those sorts of popcorn flicks are easy for viewers of all ages to digest without needing to think too much, and easy for overseas, non-English-speaking audiences to understand and follow because it's all action and explosions. I wouldn't want X-Men to be like that. But I did like how Avengers embraced and celebrated its comic book roots.

 

[Dr Tactics]

Oh the Phase 2 will definitely do well at the box office, providing they can overcome the challenge of explaining why they Avengers aren't constantly popping up to help each other in each other's movies.

At least Fox's new thinking will create a more coherent cinematic world. The previous one-film-at-a-time approach has ended up creating patchy continuity and, for audiences, an uncertainty about what is coming next. I'm all for Fox having an overall strategy and a bit of forward thinking; it's just a shame it's taken this long for them to get on board with that idea. It's something I've been pleading for on here for years and years and years.

The X-Men franchise has a lot going for it - some great casting and the best of all Marvel's villains (Magneto). Tom Hiddleston's Loki doesn't come anywhere near to McKellen/Fassbender's Magneto. People can relate more to a damaged human (and concentration camp survivor) than the theatrics of Asgardian alien Loki being 'burdened with glorious purpose'.

It's weird that several people I know at work who saw Avengers found it superficial and trivial and it didn't meet their expectations at all. This week, a guy in the office who bought the DVD (and had missed seeing it at the cinema) said he was bitterly disappointed. Even Whedon himself said it wasn't a great movie, just 'a great time'. I think that simplistic fun was part of what gave it broad appeal. Just like Transformers. Those sorts of popcorn flicks are easy for viewers of all ages to digest without needing to think too much, and easy for overseas, non-English-speaking audiences to understand and follow because it's all action and explosions. I wouldn't want X-Men to be like that. But I did like how Avengers embraced and celebrated its comic book roots.

Strongly agree. I think the X-Men franchise will be a lot better with MM getting a little continuity. I only question their insistence on their vision about the Fantastic Four's independent universe outside the MCU and how even worse that they may attempt to shoe horn them into the X-Men universe as a spring board to a new franchise on the back of the X-Men universe when the FF has more in common with Marvel Studios the Avengers MCU.

 

[X-Maniac]

Strongly agree. I think the X-Men franchise will be a lot better with MM getting a little continuity. I only question their insistence on their vision about the Fantastic Four's independent universe outside the MCU and how even worse that they may attempt to shoe horn them into the X-Men universe as a spring board to a new franchise on the back of the X-Men universe when the FF has more in common with Marvel Studios the Avengers MCU.

I would imagine they would only cross over FF and X-Men in the long term, and even then it may only be minor. There was uncorroborated gossip at one point of Kelsey Grammer's Beast making a cameo in the second FF movie.

I agree there is no obvious/major common ground between the two teams, but there have been comic books where FF and X-Men have come together; Storm and Wolverine have also been FF members for short periods; and Franklin Richards is a mutant who was part of DoFP in particular. Not sure what they have in mind - maybe they don't know yet either, hence bringing in Mark Millar. Maybe they just want to hang on to the rights.

 

[Dr Tactics]

I would imagine they would only cross over FF and X-Men in the long term, and even then it may only be minor. There was uncorroborated gossip at one point of Kelsey Grammer's Beast making a cameo in the second FF movie.

Well they don't that long for the "Long Term" to get filming.. ROTSS came out in 2007. And Kelsey Grammer's Beast?? I thought it was a common thought they were retconning anything not X1 and X2...

I agree there is no obvious/major common ground between the two teams, but there have been comic books where FF and X-Men have come together; Storm and Wolverine have also been FF members for short periods; and Franklin Richards is a mutant who was part of DoFP in particular. Not sure what they have in mind - maybe they don't know yet either, hence bringing in Mark Millar. Maybe they just want to hang on to the rights.

Wolverine Yeah, with Hulk and Spider-Man & Ghost Rider which none are accessible to Fox. Furthering the point that without others in the MCU there's no real connecting fiber Between the X-Men team and The Fantastic Four

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

I think that simplistic fun was part of what gave it broad appeal. Just like Transformers. Those sorts of popcorn flicks are easy for viewers of all ages to digest without needing to think too much, and easy for overseas, non-English-speaking audiences to understand and follow because it's all action and explosions. I wouldn't want X-Men to be like that. But I did like how Avengers embraced and celebrated its comic book roots.

I literally just got done watching The Avengers with my sisters and they were talking through the entire movie. It wasn't until the third act, which is where the true action started, that they shut their mouths. The one thing I noticed quite clearly while trying to drown out their yapping is that the first two acts of the movie are almost exclusively character development and set-up, with barely any action at all, and unlike Transformers, the set-up of the first two acts made the final battle sooo worth it, and even then the story is still advancing unlike Transformers. I severely don't understand what the hell people are talking about when they call the movie shallow, superficial, Michael Bay-esque or whatever. Like... seriously? No offense to you but did you even watch the movie? There are still things I'm just now realizing about the movie that I didn't notice before. It seems to me that people who dismiss the Avengers as just a popcorn flick only do so because they can't comprehend the fact that something with so much action can also have just as much depth to it. I could sit here all day and just talk to you about Black Widow's character arc, that should be a testament to how well written it is.

 

[BMM]

I think that might be more of a testament to your ability to talk than a testament to The Avengers. If the Avengers had just as much depth as it does action, it would be one of the deepest movies in the world... but it's not, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well they don't that long for the "Long Term" to get filming.. ROTSS came out in 2007.

Doesn't mean the crossover has to happen in the first film. I'd imagine the first couple of FF movies would be about the FF. The first one will be an origin story and introduction.

And Kelsey Grammer's Beast?? I thought it was a common thought they were retconning anything not X1 and X2...

I meant there were rumours of Grammer's Beast appearing in FF:ROTSS back in 2007.

As for the 'common thought' of retconning anything but X1 and X2, we simply don't know if that's true. DoFP has to exist in a future - and for all we know, it may be a future shortly after X-Men: The Last Stand. Just saying that at this point we don't know what they are ignoring/including.

Wolverine Yeah, with Hulk and Spider-Man & Ghost Rider which none are accessible to Fox. Furthering the point that without others in the MCU there's no real connecting fiber Between the X-Men team and The Fantastic Four.

As I said, who knows what they have in mind and what their reasoning is.

 

[X-Maniac]

I literally just got done watching The Avengers with my sisters and they were talking through the entire movie. It wasn't until the third act, which is where the true action started, that they shut their mouths. The one thing I noticed quite clearly while trying to drown out their yapping is that the first two acts of the movie are almost exclusively character development and set-up, with barely any action at all, and unlike Transformers, the set-up of the first two acts made the final battle sooo worth it, and even then the story is still advancing unlike Transformers. I severely don't understand what the hell people are talking about when they call the movie shallow, superficial, Michael Bay-esque or whatever. Like... seriously? No offense to you but did you even watch the movie? There are still things I'm just now realizing about the movie that I didn't notice before. It seems to me that people who dismiss the Avengers as just a popcorn flick only do so because they can't comprehend the fact that something with so much action can also have just as much depth to it. I could sit here all day and just talk to you about Black Widow's character arc, that should be a testament to how well written it is.

Joss Whedon himself said 'it's not even a great movie, it's a great time', meaning it's little more than a fun piece of spectacle.

Widow had a hint of backstory but not really an 'arc' because it didn't change between the start and the end. Jeremy Renner complained about having no real character depth in the film because for most of it, he was Loki's pawn. Hulk revealed the secret of controlling the beast, but he never really learned anything as such. And Hiddleston's Loki is starting to bore me already because he is just a snarling pantomime villain who we cannot relate to, despite all Hiddleston's claims.

There are some good character moments but overall it's a comic book action flick which does a great job of celebrating the comic and little else. This isn't a film that makes you think, raises any great questions or themes or which touches the emotions, so let's be honest here.

 

[The Guard]

Agreed.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Joss Whedon himself said 'it's not even a great movie, it's a great time', meaning it's little more than a fun piece of spectacle.

Widow had a hint of backstory but not really an 'arc' because it didn't change between the start and the end. Jeremy Renner complained about having no real character depth in the film because for most of it, he was Loki's pawn. Hulk revealed the secret of controlling the beast, but he never really learned anything as such. And Hiddleston's Loki is starting to bore me already because he is just a snarling pantomime villain who we cannot relate to, despite all Hiddleston's claims.

There are some good character moments but overall it's a comic book action flick which does a great job of celebrating the comic and little else. This isn't a film that makes you think, raises any great questions or themes or which touches the emotions, so let's be honest here.

We're going to have to agree to disagree then, because I could write up a whole essay on the depth of The Avengers, but I don't feel like wasting all that time when it's not going to change your mind. And just to let you know, there's a difference between depth and being spoon-fed.

And Hiddleston's Loki is starting to bore me already because he is just a snarling pantomime villain who we cannot relate to, despite all Hiddleston's claims.

You're in the minority who think that... the very small minority.

 

[X-Maniac]

We're going to have to agree to disagree then, because I could write up a whole essay on the depth of The Avengers, but I don't feel like wasting all that time when it's not going to change your mind. And just to let you know, there's a difference between depth and being spoon-fed.


You're in the minority who think that... the very small minority.

Yep, there's no point turning this into an Avengers argument, especially in an X-Men thread and even more especially in one dedicated to the discussion of Beast!

 

[Dr Tactics]

Yep, there's no point turning this into an Avengers argument, especially in an X-Men thread and even more especially in one dedicated to the discussion of Beast!

Beast is an Avenger,technically.. He's just not licensed that way..

(Yeah, I know this is a movie thread but IJS)

 

[X-Maniac]

Beast is an Avenger,technically.. He's just not licensed that way..

(Yeah, I know this is a movie thread but IJS)

Fully aware of that. I have piles of Marvel Comics at home. But, still, I wouldn't want to derail this thread.

What I would like is to see the Kelsey Grammer version of Beast again. I watched the first three X-Men films again at the weekend and Grammer was just soooo good...

 

[Great Mind(s)]

Fully aware of that. I have piles of Marvel Comics at home. But, still, I wouldn't want to derail this thread.

What I would like is to see the Kelsey Grammer version of Beast again. I watched the first three X-Men films again at the weekend and Grammer was just soooo good...

Yes he stole that movie. Have you seen the Shakespeare deleted scene?

 

[X-Maniac]

Yes he stole that movie. Have you seen the Shakespeare deleted scene?

Yes indeed.

I wonder how they will handle all these returning and existing characters in a two-hour movie though! That's assuming we see many characters from the original trilogy in the future. Will people be content with brief glimpses before these characters are incinerated by Sentinels?