I think the best way to put it, is there hasn't been any successful cross-pollinated franchises.
That really doesn't do it justice though.
AvP, Freddy vs. Jason, the universal monsters, etc. ALL OF THEM had cross-overs that is true. But not once did they start out with the plan of bringing them all together in a unified story and world. Since Iron Man, we've known that 'The Avengers' was coming. And every MARVEL film since then has had a tag connecting them together. That's what makes this so unique. It wasn't "let's combine these already existing characters into a movie" it was "let's start here, create a universe where they all exist, interconnect them then bring them together." I mean, we've known about this movie for... god... six years or something now lol.
Hours later and I still dont get the comparison with AvP
Yeah you really can't compare this to anything thats ever been done on film before simply because nothing like it has been attempted. Yes, there have been cross-pollinated franchises before (Freddy vs Jason, AVP, etc) but nothing to this magnitude where there were 5 interweaving movies all culminating in the ensemble film. There really is no precedent for this.
In the end I feel like this movie (given all the positive buzz it's already getting) will be viewed in a league all it's own since it is truly unique, not just as an ensemble film.
That really doesn't do it justice though.
AvP, Freddy vs. Jason, the universal monsters, etc. ALL OF THEM had cross-overs that is true. But not once did they start out with the plan of bringing them all together in a unified story and world. Since Iron Man, we've known that 'The Avengers' was coming. And every MARVEL film since then has had a tag connecting them together. That's what makes this so unique. It wasn't "let's combine these already existing characters into a movie" it was "let's start here, create a universe where they all exist, interconnect them then bring them together." I mean, we've known about this movie for... god... six years or something now lol. And many of the characters throughout the film or inter-related in some means. They work as one unified story.
But they only interweave on a basic level. The films aren't dependent on one and other to work, they cant otherwise no-one outside comic fanbase will follow them. Avengers really isn't a culmination of some grand story told over 5 films, it's another team up film admittedly a more elaborate one.
What makes you say that? The concept was interesting for more than one story in the comic books, whose to say it's only going to be interesting in one film?This concept is interesting for one film, and one film only; after that, the MCU is established, and the novelty of having a cross-pollinated multiverse will wear off immediately.
Kudos to Marvel Studios for what they've done to lead to this movie, but at the end of the day, I'm sure that it's only going to be just a superhero movie, not a monumental lighting bolt in the history of film.
Of course the films have to be independent of each other to work. If they didn't it would, in a way, defeat the whole purpose, because it's about four separate franchises coming together. The fact that they connect, even if you feel it's only on a 'basic' level, is, as I said, unprecedented.
And no one said the Avengers is a culmination of a 'grand story' told over five years, as there are 4 separate stories being told. It is, however, a culmination of what the connective tissue in each movie has been leading to. Summing it up as 'just another team up film only more elaborate' is completely underselling the whole thing.
As I said before: creating an entire on-screen universe and building up each characters backstory in separate but connected films has never been done until now.
Of course the films have to be independent of each other to work. If they didn't it would, in a way, defeat the whole purpose, because it's about four separate franchises coming together. The fact that they connect, even if you feel it's only on a 'basic' level, is, as I said, unprecedented.
And no one said the Avengers is a culmination of a 'grand story' told over five years, as there are 4 separate stories being told. It is, however, a culmination of what the connective tissue in each movie has been leading to. Summing it up as 'just another team up film only more elaborate' is completely underselling the whole thing.
As I said before: creating an entire on-screen universe and building up each characters backstory in separate but connected films has never been done until now.
You have seen these movies before, right? You are aware that they are all brought together by SHIELD, an organization which has a presence in literally all 5 of the MCU movies? And that they will be teaming up against the villain from Thor, a character from one of the aforementioned previous films?But if there's nothing overall that's connecting them as a whole from a story perspective what's so special about the universe? If the stories remain individual you're not really enhancing anything, you're not really leading to anything, all you're doing is saying these characters live in the same world. Okay....and? If each film's plot in the lead up was some crucial piece to the Avengers puzzle where viewing it was required then yes it would be unprecedented and would probably make the team up payoff all the greater, but to have done so would have been catastrophic because only people like us would have paid attention to a series of films dedicated to each character who's plots all intertwined. So in the end whilst the number of characters teaming up I would agree is new, in essence we're still getting a team up film that's been done before.
You have seen these movies before, right? You are aware that they are all brought together by SHIELD, an organization which has a presence in literally all 5 of the MCU movies? And that they will be teaming up against the villain from Thor, a character from one of the aforementioned previous films?
So yes, in a way each of these films is a crucial piece to the Avengers puzzle. I thought that was self-evident.
And if this really has been done before on film, then by all means, tell me when.
But they only interweave on a basic level. The films aren't dependent on one and other to work, they cant otherwise no-one outside comic fanbase will follow them. Avengers really isn't a culmination of some grand story told over 5 films, it's another team up film admittedly a more elaborate one.
Haha I've never seen that before but that's hilarious ^
You have seen these movies before, right? You are aware that they are all brought together by SHIELD, an organization which has a presence in literally all 5 of the MCU movies? And that they will be teaming up against the villain from Thor, a character from one of the aforementioned previous films?
So yes, in a way each of these films is a crucial piece to the Avengers puzzle. I thought that was self-evident.
And if this really has been done before on film, then by all means, tell me when.
I do think the unprecedented tag gets used incorrectly but that's pretty much what I'm getting at, I think the fan community is making it out to be a bigger deal than what other people are. Hell I had someone ask me 'where's that Green Lantern dude in Avengers?'. Seriously the vast majority of people don't really care how connected things are, all they know is that there's a movie with a bunch of superheroes coming up.This is the point I've been trying to make in the small Justice League thread. Of course, we all know a JL movie might never happen.
I dont think jmc is saying that Avengers is not unprecedented or something, but it really isn't as big a deal as some us fanboys think it is. If anything, the Avengers is just the climax for this big ambitious universe that Marvel Studios created. For me, the excitement has been ongoing since the post credits in Iron Man.
Here's another point of discussion. Would Avengers work in a vacuum? For instance, imagine you're part of the GA and you've never seen any of the other MCU movies.
which is more than any of the Vs. movies ever had and this "basic level", the shared universe, the aknowledgement those other heroes exist out there, right from the start, is the big differenceBut they only interweave on a basic level.
no they aren't. those are seperate franchises. nevertheless, they coexist in an interconnecting movie universe. again, this is, what has never been done before, this is the novelty, this is the bold and risky move.The films aren't dependent on one and other to work,
just like the audience of the harry potter movies consisted only of Potter readers?they cant otherwise no-one outside comic fanbase will follow them.
No. It is just the end of the first chapter of the MCU and also the first part of a new franchise in the MCU, consisting of characters already introduced in the MCU.Avengers really isn't a culmination of some grand story told over 5 films,
You think?it's another team up film admittedly a more elaborate one.
I think the best way to put it, is there hasn't been any successful cross-pollinated franchises.
I do admire Marvel's chutzpah for even attempting this. I'm also thankful that Disney owns them because should this be a complete failure (which I highly doubt), this won't kill them.
I've never been rooting as much for a film in my life though, because should they pull this off, I think it will encourage other studios to take chances. I get so tired of hearing people say Marvel plays it safe with their films. This is hardly safe, in fact nothing they have done has been particularly safe.
Need I remind people they had a good thing going co-releasing films in conjunction with other studios. Sure they had some misses, with Daredevil and Elektra, but even the FF movies, while they may have not been great, they did make money. X-men and Spider-man were huge successes.
Going out with Iron Man on their own, who up until that point was not all that well known outside of the comic fan base, was a huge risk. They took out huge loans to finance the film, which potentially could have sent Marvel back into bankrupcy court as they were in the 1990's. They also decided to reboot a franchise that everyone said was a total flop in Ang Lee's Hulk.
Adding to that, the thought from the beginning was to create the MCU, which was a huge risk. Captain America didn't even have a screen play at the time they made the decision to make the MCU. While some called Fiege for interference of the directors, he was trying to make a cohesive story that would not contradict itself, so he asserted his authority in areas that might undermine the MCU, but at the same time, allowed the film makers to make their own story. Iron Man, Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America: The First Avenger....five films that couldn't be more different interms of style yet they form somewhat of a pseudo saga.
I for one loudly applaud Marvel for what they are doning here, and hope it pays off big time.