Wonder Woman Returning to TV

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]342362[/split]

 

[Marvel Spider]

http://www.deadline.com/2010/10/wonder-woman-returning-to-tv-as-series-written-and-produced-by-david-e-kelley/

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

We're all pretty much aware of the negativity towards this. I want it to do well, but I still don't know what tone they are going for. Anyway, WW has been shaken up a lot lately, and with the new costumes in the comics and the TV show there has been a lot of negative reaction.

Well, like they always say...if it ain't broke....

What I am most concerned about is that if this fails at TV level it all but destroys any chance of a Wonder Woman feature film for the next 20 years--easily.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

What I am most concerned about is that if this fails at TV level it all but destroys any chance of a Wonder Woman feature film for the next 20 years--easily.

I find that unlikely, sure there will be yet another stigma that the character will have to grow past, but since this is a TV series I don't think its success or failure will have a visible effect on Hollywood. If anything, I think that since they're not going for an origin story it opens up the possibility for some DC Entertainment-backed film project to take it towards that. After the success of Batman, Marvel Studios, and of course the positive hype surrounding GL and The Man of Steel, I don't think DC will keep long from a WW movie.

When that happens, I hope Bridget Regan gets on board

 

[Isub_Zero]

Well, like they always say...if it ain't broke....

I think WW had been broken for a loooooong time. Why? Because the Comic books sales... Remind me... how many copies Wonder Woman's comics has been sold, compared to other big names super heroes comic books?

Have you ever consider the possibility her suit is one of the reason for the franchise sales?

I bet you(and ,most of her fans) didn't...

Just to be clear... I'm not saying the planned Suit for the TV show we saw is great. But, i do think it's better then her classic suit. Sure it could have been better - much better.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I think WW had been broken for a loooooong time. Why? Because the Comic books sales... Remind me... how many copies Wonder Woman's comics has been sold, compared to other big names super heroes comic books?

Have you ever consider the possibility her suit is one of the reason for the franchise sales?

I bet you(and ,most of her fans) didn't...

Just to be clear... I'm not saying the planned Suit for the TV show we saw is great. But, i do think it's better then her classic suit. Sure it could have been better - much better.

Since when has proper sales figures been a mark of something that's artistically good? It isn't, critical success has very little to do with financial success. As for the classic suit, there's nothing inherently wrong with it that needed to be 'fixed' or 'modernized' the way it has been. Sure there are things that can be improved upon, but that doesn't mean you outright say a series' reputation falls because of the suit the character wears. A superhero is supposed to look iconic. Superman still wears his red undies, does that mean the book is ruined?

No. Some of the Wonder Woman stories in the comics have been brilliant and in my opinion a lot better than the other books at the time. Both George Perez and Greg Rucka's run has been phenomenal, to say otherwise is just being arrogant, which I know a lot of comic fans are. I'm not saying this to you or anyone in particular here, but comments like this make me question exactly how much idea the person has regarding the thing he or she has such a big opinion about? How can you even develop an opinion without first having some knowledge about the thing you're commenting on? Again, not saying this is you, but your post suggests a very limited understanding of WW.

As for the new suit, I'm going to give it a chance, but not because it's different from the classic suit, but because it's similar to it. The only substantial thing the suit added were the leggings.

 

[Isub_Zero]

I admitt i'm not a big reader of Wonder Woman(or comic in general) but maybe it's a plus... Because i'm more open minded about changes in the character.

I read about the character, some of the comics she appeared in, saw the Lynda Carter's "Wonder Woman". some Animted movies/serieses with her(including the 2009 Animated "Wonder Woman") and... IMO The classic WW suit is something that has to be changed. The suits for the TV show and the corrent Wonder Woman run is much better then her classic suit and much more respectful to the character IMO, And this is what i rtied to say in my previous post.

 

[Willi Berg]

Some of the Wonder Woman stories in the comics have been brilliant and in my opinion a lot better than the other books at the time. Both George Perez and Greg Rucka's run has been phenomenal, to say otherwise is just being arrogant, which I know a lot of comic fans are.

I think ever since "Who Is Wonder Woman" it got a bit spotty. "The Circle" was Simone's best work imo, I kind of lost interest around "Rise of the Olympians".

JMS seemed to be used to create a big "event" to appeal to a new crowd, or young people (like Superman: Earth One). It's like with the creation of DCE and this TV show, it's trying to be all modern and very commercial. That doesn't necessarily mean it's as good as Rucka or Perez's runs.

There are always complaints about the star-spangled panties but I think they need to strike a balance when wanting to update elements of it by not changing it too much, not going to the other extreme, and keeping what works.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I admitt i'm not a big reader of Wonder Woman(or comic in general) but maybe it's a plus... Because i'm more open minded about changes in the character.

I read about the character, some of the comics she appeared in, saw the Lynda Carter's "Wonder Woman". some Animted movies/serieses with her(including the 2009 Animated "Wonder Woman") and... IMO The classic WW suit is something that has to be changed. The suits for the TV show and the corrent Wonder Woman run is much better then her classic suit and much more respectful to the character IMO, And this is what i rtied to say in my previous post.

Yes I understand that, and it is fine by me. But the original suit doesn't need to be changed just as the original Superman or Batman costume needs to be changed. There is always room for improvement and what they've done in the show seems to be a good way to avoid that, just like the Batman suits in the movies, but it doesn't have to be changed. And the current WW suit from the comics is a disaster, I get why they're using the pants but it really isn't all that great. The choker, the jacket, I don't even like those god-awful lacy straps that's running down her arms. The only thing good about it are some of the detail work on the gold areas, I hate the new gauntlets and that bizarre suggestion of a ! -W-W- ! Phantom mark. It's just too pandering. First time fans will actually have lower respect for the character in this regard.

I will also allow that the new costumes are appropriate to the stories they are telling. The current story line in the comics is focusing on an alternate-reality/urban-centric Wonder Woman instead of the more ambassador and Amazonian role model we're used to. It's the Superman God Fall equivalent, if I may use a modern example, instead of a Batman Hush equivalent.

I think ever since "Who Is Wonder Woman" it got a bit spotty. "The Circle" was Simone's best work imo, I kind of lost interest around "Rise of the Olympians".

JMS seemed to be used to create a big "event" to appeal to a new crowd, or young people (like Superman: Earth One). It's like with the creation of DCE and this TV show, it's trying to be all modern and very commercial. That doesn't necessarily mean it's as good as Rucka or Perez's runs.

There are always complaints about the star-spangled panties but I think they need to strike a balance when wanting to update elements of it by not changing it too much, not going to the other extreme, and keeping what works.

I loved Simone's run, Circle was great, and I also liked the Ends of the Earth arc (though I read the collected edition so I'm considering it an OGN). JMS' approach is just what I'm driving at - it feels ostentatious rather than something that is purely driven toward improvement. Even now Hester and the rest of DCU is trying to remedy it, and come Flashpoint it will probably be done away with altogether. So yes, very commercialised in the name of accessibility.

I just don't know whether people are complaining about the panties or the star-spangled design? Because they seem to complain just as much when both are somewhat removed with a warrior-esque battle skirt, which in my opinion is fine with the rest of WW regalia. There are still subtle improvements possible to the classic suit, like the boots, or even the silver bracelets (they look better golden IMO), but the one she's wearing in the comics now is two steps backward for every step it takes forward.

It's not even about the black pants, that manip with Palicki's suit with black leggings and red boots actually looks better for the series, even if it doesn't scream Wonder Woman. The suit we have on the show is very faithful to the classic attire. Again, my biggest concern is with the material rather than the design.

 

[Willi Berg]

I liked Ends of the Earth too.

 

[Willi Berg]

This whole - "How do we change WW's costume?" is actually starting to drive me up the wall. I mean, I have defended the star-spangled panties in the past, I've agreed with a battle-skirt. I've kept my mind open with this Odyssey costume. I try to see the positive with this TV costume. Enough already lol. I wish it could be settled. The DC editors seem to be in a pickle about it as well. I just hope they come up with something good after Flashpoint.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Yeah agreed. It seems to be one, if not the only, topic that pops up every time we mention WW.

There's a lot more to discuss! And I think we're exponentially hugging back to costume discussions right now is because of the recent release of the pic, but that's not even an issue because we aren't talking about the new suit, we're talking about the CLASSIC SUIT THAT ISN'T BEING USED. Sheesh.

Anyway, so about Adrianne Palicki, she seems to be an avid fan of comic books which is always a good thing for these sort of roles. But how good can she act? I haven't seen much of her in anything. LEGION is a movie I stopped watching after the first 5 minutes.

 

[Willi Berg]

Well, for me personally, talk of the costume and what was wrong with it or how to change it started up again when the cancelled 'Justice League: Mortal' movie went into production, and when the animated movie was coming out. A lot of talk about a battle skirt or getting rid of the panties. Then since the release of the Odyssey costume and now the TV show one, it feels like it has been non-stop since then.

I saw Legion, I thought she was okay, that she could act. I haven't really seen enough of her to make a decision yet.

 

[Webhead2006]

I still think its far to early to bash the show to being utter crap. Yes the costume isn't the greatest. But it will likely look different in context/proper lighting in the show. Then some studio photoshoot. Same goes with the leaked story elements. We have no clue what verison of the pilot those elements came from. So they could not even be in the shooting script. Then of course elements could change from pilot to full series. So I think its best to wait to we have some actual footage to judge more fairly on.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I think WW had been broken for a loooooong time. Why? Because the Comic books sales... Remind me... how many copies Wonder Woman's comics has been sold, compared to other big names super heroes comic books?

Have you ever consider the possibility her suit is one of the reason for the franchise sales?

I bet you(and ,most of her fans) didn't...

Just to be clear... I'm not saying the planned Suit for the TV show we saw is great. But, i do think it's better then her classic suit. Sure it could have been better - much better.

Just for pure reference, every time they've changed her costume, it really hasn't helped that much outside a momentary bump in sales due to the 'all new, all cool' marketing around it, but it really never lasted all that long. Honestly, despite what many people try to argue, there's really nothing to indicate the suit is keeping the character back, there's far bigger and more complex issues than that; that's just something some like to tot around as a quick fix for the character without acknowledging other traits.

 

[Primal Slayer]

The suit isnt her selling problem. Its because DC cant get a firm grasp around the character, get a good writer/artist team on the book for long term that would build a good DC event around her. Plus unlike (Red)Robin/Batgirl/Supergirl it is harder for her to be in big Batman/Superman crossover stories which help readers read her book. Which is why they should change the general Superman/Batman Worlds Finest book into a trinity book since that would help get her out there more. Not to mention her lack of representation outside of the comics.

 

[Webhead2006]

Didn't they have a trinity book out awhile back that lasted for a bit?

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, it was a weekly series a year or two ago, and there's a mini-series entitled that before that by Matt Wagner.

 

[Paradox1]

Well I haven't read a wonder woman book in a while but I will assume her being a female character is a issue. I think since comics in general are mostly read by males they have a tougher time idenitfying with female charcters.

 

[Webhead2006]

Ya I don't follow dc books much myself. My pick up an odd book here and there. More a fan of marvel books. But going to shops I remember seeing the trinity stuff and all.

 

[cronosred]

Changing Wonder Woman's costume is pointless, whenever anyone talks about Wonder Woman you instantly envision her in her star spangled swimsuit. The truth is the majority of the people who complain about her outfit were never a fan of the character to begin with and most likely never will be, so why change it?

 

[Mr. Earle]

This logic is so arrogant and flawed. "You complain about the character, you are not a fan."

Why cant one do both? Besides, if there is such an outcry against her costume when there isnt one for other characters shouldnt that be an indication of its bad appeal to the readers?

 

[jaymes_e06]

Well Cronosred they are wanting to appeal to a larger female audiance and in doing that trying to make her outfit a bit less misogynistic at least from what most people would think without knowing to much about the character. This is happening a lot lately, Witchblade (Sara Pezzini) used to run around in a metal bikini now she is in a head to toe midevil armour and is getting more attention from critics and fans. I think DC is following suit.

 

[cronosred]

This logic is so arrogant and flawed. "You complain about the character, you are not a fan."

Why cant one do both? Besides, if there is such an outcry against her costume when there isnt one for other characters shouldnt that be an indication of its bad appeal to the readers?

I'm not saying everybody who complains is not a fan but I do believe the majority are not. Wonder Woman is hardly alone when it comes to costumes that are hard to take serious and the last time I checked alot of people complain and make jokes about Superman's underwear on the outside yet he still has them on in the comics, movies, and tv shows.

 

[jaymes_e06]

^What say you to Batman who has gone through many different version of his costume in film? Your logic is flawed there are some things that just really must be translated rather than duplicated from the comics and there are some things that are just to iconic to touch. Her star spangled pantties have never been that. In fact her first incarnation they was a star spangled dress.