Wrestling: The Action Soap Opera Thread - - Part 15

[Wheels]

like Nell and I have said, its a workplace like any other, at its base...there are people who get away with murder and there are people who will never get recognized for the hard work they do

the crux of it is, Vince has outlasted most everyone doing things "his way"

But that wasn't Nell's original reason.

 

[Gotham Knight]

Miz should've been booked better aswell. I wonder if he's not "larger than life"? My issue is not the way he's been treated, but Nell's reason for it being okay.

The point is the Miz is still in the title picture and main eventing. Why? Because he keeps his mouth shut and plays the politics game. Like it or not, that's how it works. Life isn't fair and neither is the WWE. If CM Punk can't adapt to it the way that a guy like the Miz can, then he has no one to blame but himself.

 

[Darkness Falls]

punk doesn't really need the top spot, he's like jericho so he can really adapt to ethier the mid card or main event card whenever he needs to be without losing his spot in wwe

 

[Metallo]

Sounds like any other company to me.

Shut your mouth, do your job, get rewarded.

Run around *****ing about what you "deserve", someone else comes along and takes your place.

No they don't take your place. you are made a fool THEN down the line you are replaced. Being replaced would be the what another company would do. WWE is a place where they will keep you on the payroll and give you a RAISE if you speak out just so they can break you down some more. Thats exactly what happened to Charlie Hass. They gave him a RAISE so they could keep their thumb on him and keep him in obscurity and off tv. Does that sound like any other company too you?

In another company you've not get the promotion or be fired for complaining...not get a raise. with McMahon its all about CONTROL. He likes to be in control and think he has his hands on all the buttons. When things are beyond his control and someone does challenge him he loses his mind. Thats what happened in the CT senate campaing. He was out of his bubble where he didn't have all the power.

And any other company wouldn't ASK to be investigated by the government. Most companies would avoid it and do the smart PR thing. WWE is much worse than any other regular company because they are using an outdated way of doing things with no one to call them on it unless things get REALLY bad.

I've never worked ANYWHERE where my boss TRIED to publicly get the company in hot water and damage its public image just to show he has the bigger balls. But thats happened in WWE.

Your typical company also isn't usually under a microscope for rampant drug usage by the vast majority of its employees after a long string of deaths.

Nobody is going to do anything about any of this because in WWE's cult like atmosphere nobody wants to and most of the people on the outside don't take it seriously enough to care.

Your average company may have politics and favoritism but WWE is a step below Jonestown with the insanity that goes on in there. Vince chasing Brisco around with sh** stained underwear isn't something I see where I work.

 

[Gotham Knight]

punk doesn't really need the top spot, he's like jericho so he can really adapt to ethier the mid card or main event card whenever he needs to be without losing his spot in wwe

This is another reason why I didn't have a problem with the way he was booked against Orton. At no point did I think that he couldn't beat Orton, or compete with him.

 

[Dr. Evil]

its not like the WWE is a democracy or a fair and just environment....its ruled by the whims of a crazy man and his psycho daughter

Are you comparing the WWE to Libya? Because that seems to be a fair comparison.

 

[Metallo]

The point is the Miz is still in the title picture and main eventing. Why? Because he keeps his mouth shut and plays the politics game. Like it or not, that's how it works. Life isn't fair and neither is the WWE. If CM Punk can't adapt to it the way that a guy like the Miz can, then he has no one to blame but himself.

ANd because he's a reality tv star who got WWE some mainstream attention. Its not only because he kept his mouth shut and played along. That helped and so does Miz's gift of gab but Miz still isn't Vince's ideal.

Miz getting tv exposure for the WWE, aka the redheaded stepchild of the entertainment business, sweetened the pot for him.

Vince will do almost ANYTHING to get acceptance by the mainstream.

 

[BlackLantern]

No they don't take your place. you are made a fool THEN down the line you are replaced. Being replaced would be the what another company would do. WWE is a place where they will keep you on the payroll and give you a RAISE if you speak out just so they can break you down some more. Thats exactly what happened to Charlie Hass. They gave him a RAISE so they could keep their thumb on him and keep him in obscurity and off tv. Does that sound liek any other company too you?

In another company you've not get the promotion or be fired for complaining...not get a raise.

And any other company wouldn't ASK to be investigated by the government. Most companies would avoid it and do the smart PR thing. WWE is much worse than any other regular company because they are using an outdated way of doing things with no one to call them on it unless things get REALLY bad.

I've never worked ANYWHERE where my boss TRIED to publicly get the company in hot water and damage its public image just to show he has the bigger balls. But thats happened in WWE.

Your typical company also isn't usually under a microscope for rampant drug usage by the vast majority of its employees after a long string of deaths.

Nobody is going to do anything about any of this because in WWE's cult like atmosphere nobody wants to and most of the people on the outside don't take it seriously enough to care.

Your average company may have politics and favoritism but WWE is a step below Jonestown with the insanity that goes on in there. Vince chasing Brisco around with sh** stained underwear isn't something I see where I work.

thats the long and the short of it right there....now, I for one, do hope that Blumenthal goes through with his threats and actually looks into their labor classification stuff

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

But that wasn't Nell's original reason.

my original reason is that cm punk doesn't have the personality or style that wwe looks for to he a top guy. He's not the huge spectacle that guys like taker, hhh, cena, Orton are. That's why he doesn't get the push to the top.

He's damn talented. Even when I hated him I recognized his talent. And now that I dont hate him, im actually becoming a fan. But he's not the guy to carry a company, and he doesn't get pushed as such. As much as I like him, I still find him to be incredibly over rated. And my point was, outside of interwebz fans who think he's gods gift to wrestling, I haven't met anytime who thinks he deserves to be a high main event player.

I have also said numerous times he didn't get treated right in the Orton feud.

And before you go talking about how im going back on my word... I just went back and re read all of my original posts on this subject back on pages 18 and 19, and never once did I say cm punk deserved to get jobber out because he's not "larger than life".

 

[Wheels]

I was just taking issue with the "He deserves what he's been given because he's nol larger than life" reason. Which is crap.

 

[Metallo]

thats the long and the short of it right there....now, I for one, do hope that Blumenthal goes through with his threats and actually looks into their labor classification stuff

It would be the right thing to do...but when do politicians ever do that? You guys say WWE is like any other business when in fact its more like the political arena. Ass kissing, lobbying, and people generally doing what they want including any kind of debauchery.

Like all politicians he'll do the calculating thing and cover his own a**. If that means giving WWE a pass he'll do it. If he has to go after them for his political survival he'll do that.

my original reason is that cm punk doesn't have the personality or style that wwe looks for to he a top guy. He's not the huge spectacle that guys like taker, hhh, cena, Orton are. That's why he doesn't get the push to the top.

Punk has plenty of personality and style..even what they look for in top guys. The big things that may be holding him back are his body and his tongue. Thats it. And even his build is a questionable factor in this day in age.

They just don't like him for whatever reason...no matter if its accurate or not. But I'd bet its his honesty and his refusal to play the game thats holding him back before I'd ever but that he's lacking the "style and personality" (as a character) that WWE likes. Maybe even his indie darling status is a factor.

Jeff Hardy was another guy who went against the WWE mold but he still got a push. Hardys not out of that Orton/Cena clone tank but they wanted him as a star.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

ANd because he's a reality tv star who got WWE some mainstream attention. Its not only because he kept his mouth shut and played along. That helped and so does Miz's gift of gab but Miz still isn't Vince's ideal.

Miz getting tv exposure for the WWE, aka the redheaded stepchild of the entertainment business, sweetened the pot for him.

Vince will do almost ANYTHING to get acceptance by the mainstream.

How dare an employer reward an employee who brings good press and money to the company.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I was just taking issue with the "He deserves what he's been given because he's nol larger than life" reason. Which is crap.

Which is something I never said, and I went back and checked my earlier posts on the subject to make sure.

So you're taking issue with something that never happened.

 

[Metallo]

How dare an employer reward an employee who brings good press and money to the company.

I thought you were done with me. Didn't even take a week. I never said it was wrong for him to do that.

But thats the truth. Vince Jr's WWF was built on mainstream media exposure from outside of wrestling from the very beginning. It worked and thats why he's always gone back to the well.

 

[BlackLantern]

its time for the one piece of WWE programming that doesn't make Metallo pull out his hair

 

[Wheels]

Which is something I never said, and I went back and checked my earlier posts on the subject to make sure.

So you're taking issue with something that never happened.

If that's the case, I apologise, but nobody said Punk could carry the company either. You don't have to do that to be a main eventer. Edge was booked better than Punk, even Jericho won some PPV matches. Punk has been jobbed for over a year. Just let him win a little.

 

[bullets]

If Luke wins Tough Enough it would be interesting having him replace ALex Riley's role on RAW.

I'm loving this stretch workout with Trish and Christina

 

[BlackLantern]

Steve Austin saying "je ne se quois" just made my night

 

[Gotham Knight]

ANd because he's a reality tv star who got WWE some mainstream attention. Its not only because he kept his mouth shut and played along. That helped and so does Miz's gift of gab but Miz still isn't Vince's ideal.

Miz getting tv exposure for the WWE, aka the redheaded stepchild of the entertainment business, sweetened the pot for him.

Vince will do almost ANYTHING to get acceptance by the mainstream.

What is this "Mainstream Exposure" that you keep bringing up? Miz was on the Real World, yet you make it sound as if he's some pop culture legend. He doesn't draw because he was on an old edition of the Real World.

If Luke wins Tough Enough it would be interesting having him replace ALex Riley's role on RAW.

He seems like someone with potential. Too bad he's so arrogant.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

If that's the case, I apologise, but nobody said Punk could carry the company either. You don't have to do that to be a main eventer. Edge was booked better than Punk, even Jericho won some PPV matches. Punk has been jobbed for over a year. Just let him win a little.

And I agree with that 110%. The way he was booked in the Orton feud was redonk. I was actually cheering for him to beat Orton at wrestlemania, and again at extreme rules, just to make it a little unpredictable. Im much more of an Orton fan than I am of punk as well. I thought it was weak.

I see punk as a tier 2 main eventer. Not cena or Orton caliber, but like you said in that edge or Jericho level main eventer. Give him the title on occasion, give him some feud wins now and then, and call it a solid career. I agree he shouldn't be jobbed out constantly.

 

[Metallo]

This idea that Punk is being held back because he doesn't have the kind of personality or style that WWE looks for holds less and less water the more I look at it.

In many ways as far as talent and presentation Punk is like a modern day jake Roberts (only on the absolute opposite end of the spectrum as far as drugs go).

When you get right down to the basics Vince has always looked for the same thing in his stats over the last 25 years. The details have changed but the basics are about the same.

Jake was no Adonis physically speaking. he was a more rugged looking dude who spoke softly but with a lot of intellect and a psychological slant.

Jake was never a man eventer but he WAS always steadily pushed in the midcard...something thats not true for Punk. This problem goes beyond the main event.

Jake got to look strong most of the time and even when he eventually lost as a heel he usually got to get some credibility in the buildup to it. Much of the time Punk can't claim that either.

As a Face Jake always got to look strong. Thats not something Punk can claim.

Jake probably WOULD have been in line for a main event push if he hadn't let his drug use mess up his career. WWE considered and teased a program with Hogan but the fans supposedly didn't react the way WWE wanted. But the guy was incredibly over at his peak. Add the drug problem and its easy to see why he never went any higher. He was having issues before the 80's were over but he was still being used well.

The biggest advantage Jake had on Punk is height. He had to be aroudn 6'4" or 6'5" in his prime.

I think this just goes back to the theory that WWE isn't pushing individuals but he product as a whole and only a couple of top guys will get to look good at the expense of everyone else. Even in the Hogan era midcard guys like Jake got to look far better and matter more than the guys of Punks era.

If Punk had come along during the attitude era I wouldn't be shocked if his WWE career had gone much better. People who didn't look like the ideal got world titles, the midcard was strong, and everybody got a moment to shine. None of that is true today.

There are probably a combination of things holding Punk back but the biggest things are probably the way the current product is presented, the way creative works, and the way people are more concerned with booking for Vince than booking for a good show. Its not just affecting Punk but its affecting everyone. Even people who have a better look, a look Vince sees as ideal, are spinning their wheels.

The creative process just isn't as efficient. During Patterons era he'd take punk and he'd EASILY be able to make him a major player.

There are biases but I don't think they are against the personality or look of Punks character.

 

[Specter313]

Did I hear Luke just say "Oh mylanta" to try and impress Kelly Kelly? Tool.

 

[Metallo]

What is this "Mainstream Exposure" that you keep bringing up? Miz was on the Real World, yet you make it sound as if he's some pop culture legend. He doesn't draw because he was on an old edition of the Real World.

He seems like someone with potential. Too bad he's so arrogant.

I never SAID he draws because he was on the Real World (he's not much of a draw anyway). To WWE the real world IS mainstream beause its MTV. More mainstream than them anyway. Adn they'll take any mainstream attention they can get. Vince owes MTV HUGE for much of WWE's early success doesn't he?

but I'm not talking about Real World being the exposure. I'm talking about Miz being on Real World getting the attention of media outlets that ARE giving him mainstream exposure. Being on NBC is a GOOD thing for WWE. Doesn't hurt that they already have a relationship with them going back decades but Miz's past on reality tv is one hook thats getting them to put him of all people on as champion.

The mainstream media exposure I'm talking about is all the talk shows like Jimmy Kimmell and Jimmy Fallon and all the radio shows that Miz did. And a lot of those shows had him on because he was a Real World guy, a reality tv show (which is a big deal these days) that made it big in WWE. These shows don't always have all WWE stars on. before he won the title Miz wasn't as big as Cena so he didn't have as much exposure as him in WWE. Other first time title holders like Jeff hardy didn't get that much media exposure. Miz got it because he had a past in television.

Real World wasn't the biggest show ever show but people DO remember it for being a pioneer of the reality tv that is commonplace today.

Like Tough Enough.

Arrogant? You know thats just his character right? Unless you're talkign about his character and just don't like arrogant characters. Outside of WWE he seems pretty affable and smart. He's willing to work hard. Thats another reason he got the push.

Miz's response to some fan ragging on him at live greet event was one of the smoothest I've ever seen from any wrestler. When the guy said Chris Benoit was better than Miz that easily could have been an embarrassing situation for WWE but Miz handled it with class like a pro.

I'll put it to you like this: Miz handled that fan a hell of a lot more calmly than David Schultz handled John Stossel

 

[Wheels]

And I agree with that 110%. The way he was booked in the Orton feud was redonk. I was actually cheering for him to beat Orton at wrestlemania, and again at extreme rules, just to make it a little unpredictable. Im much more of an Orton fan than I am of punk as well. I thought it was weak.

I see punk as a tier 2 main eventer. Not cena or Orton caliber, but like you said in that edge or Jericho level main eventer. Give him the title on occasion, give him some feud wins now and then, and call it a solid career. I agree he shouldn't be jobbed out constantly.

I agree. Heck, if you don't have anything for him in the main event give him a mid card title run. He could have great matches with those guys, but they shoudn't job him out.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Anyone surprised that there have not been any releases yet?