Xbox Xbox Series X|S Thread

[XtremelyBaneful]

The brand already crashed and burned during the eighth gen.

Yeahhhhh but the brand had a successor in the ninth gen. They haven't decided to stop making consoles yet.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Yeahhhhh but the brand had a successor in the ninth gen. They haven't decided to stop making consoles yet.

Not publicly anyway.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Not publicly anyway.

No, not publicly. But I guess what I'm saying is that if the crash and burn during the 8th generation was that bad, then they would have stopped there.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

No, not publicly. But I guess what I'm saying is that if the crash and burn during the 8th generation was that bad, then they would have stopped there.

And kill themselves in the gaming space altogether? Nah. They're smart enough to understand the need to ween their player base off their hardware first. The hardware is what's worthless not the XBox branding itself.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

And kill themselves in the gaming space altogether? Nah. They're smart enough to understand the need to ween their player base off their hardware first. The hardware is what's worthless not the XBox branding itself.

well if the Xbox branding itself is not worthless, then one can argue that the crashing and burning in the previous generation wasn't that bad. although, for a name like "Xbox", it certainly is a brand that implies a physical product that's always involved with it. so perhaps the previous implications is that if they continue going further south, they'll retire the brand altogether and just go with Microsoft gaming.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

well if the Xbox branding itself is not worthless, then one can argue that the crashing and burning in the previous generation wasn't that bad. It although, for a name like "Xbox", it certainly is a brand that implies a physical product that's always involved with it. so perhaps the previous implications is that if they continue going further south, they'll retire brand altogether and just go with Microsoft gaming.

It 100% was that bad. When the dust settles and Tale of Xbox's downfall in the hardware space is told, all roads will lead back to Don Mattrick.
XBox went from being the lead target platform to making glorified gamepass roku boxes within a generation. I agree that Microsoft gaming is the likeliest end goal. Wouldn't be suprised if there is another Xbox, it'll strictly be an XCloud streaming device. Where Stadia failed, Microsoft has the IP to succeed.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

It 100% was that bad.

you're not making sense. you first said that the brand crashed and burned in the 8th generation, but then later you said that the brand is not worthless, but the hardware has become so. and that's why my argument is that the crashing and burning can't be that bad, since there is still some worth to the product overall. meaning to say, it isn't so bad that they are going to "kill themselves in the gaming space altogether" as you put it.

When the dust settles and Tale of Xbox's downfall in the hardware space is told, all roads will lead back to Don Mattrick.

well, yeah. the general consensus is that Mattrick is what caused the downfall of the Xbone, a downfall of the Xbox brand that is still being felt to some degree even today. I will say though that Spencer has had multiple chances to turn things around, and he's been at the top of Xbox for over a decade now.

XBox went from being the lead target platform to making glorified gamepass roku boxes within a generation.

if you mean that the Xbox was the primary platform of development for most games, that was only the case for the 360. It wasn't the case for the first Xbox, or any other Xbox to my knowledge. the console making glorified roku boxes is something that happened recently with the Series X/S. so none of these things happened within a generation.

I agree that Microsoft gaming is the likeliest end goal. Wouldn't be suprised if there is another Xbox, it'll strictly be an XCloud streaming device. Where Stadia failed, Microsoft has the IP to succeed.

I actually don't know this, but was Stadia ever a physical console? I remember there were controllers for it, but I don't remember seeing an actual box. if you're saying the next Xbox will be Microsoft's equivalent of a Stadia, then will there even be a box for it?

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

you're not making sense. you first said that the brand crashed and burned in the 8th generation, but then later you said that the brand is not worthless, but the hardware has become so. and that's why my argument is that the crashing and burning can't be that bad, since there is still some worth to the product overall. meaning to say, it isn't so bad that they are going to "kill themselves in the gaming space altogether" as you put it.

well, yeah. the general consensus is that Mattrick is what caused the downfall of the Xbone, a downfall of the Xbox brand that is still being felt to some degree even today. I will say though that Spencer has had multiple chances to turn things around, and he's been at the top of Xbox for over a decade now.

if you mean that the Xbox was the primary platform of development for most games, that was only the case for the 360. It wasn't the case for the first Xbox, or any other Xbox to my knowledge. the console making glorified roku boxes is something that happened recently with the Series X/S. so none of these things happened within a generation.

I actually don't know this, but was Stadia ever a physical console? I remember there were controllers for it, but I don't remember seeing an actual box. if you're saying the next Xbox will be Microsoft's equivalent of a Stadia, then will there even be a box for it?

XBox 360: lead target platform

XBone: marketed as a multimedia box that also happens to play games. Basically CDi 2.0 as far as marketing goes. Lol

Xbox Series: boot theory gamepass roku box

There is a single console generation between the Xbox 360 and the Series.

They went from being the focal point of the hardware market to not even trying to be competitive in an incredibly short amount of time which in my opinion based on my personal experience working for them is 100% deliberate.

There's nothing Spencer could actually do.The only thing that sells console hardware is true exclusive software and Microsoft isn't going to pull their games from PC. That's transparently where they want you playing anyway

Stadia required a Chromecast to work. Funny thing about Stadia is I knew that service was dying about year and a half before Google officially pulled the plug because Google randomly just gave me one via email. They didn't even charge me shipping.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

XBox 360: lead target platform

XBone: marketed as a multimedia box that also happens to play games. Basically CDi 2.0 as far as marketing goes. Lol

Xbox Series: boot theory gamepass roku box

There is a single console generation between the Xbox 360 and the Series.

we're talking about three different console generations. Xbox 360 was the seventh generation, Xbone was the 8th, and Series X/S is the ninth. You said they went from being the lead target platform to making glorified gamepass roku boxes within one generation, and that just isn't true. this all happened within the span of 15+ years.

They went from being the focal point of the hardware market to not even trying to be competitive in an incredibly short amount of time which in my opinion based on my personal experience working for them is 100% deliberate.

whenever we have a conversation, I will always concede and give you credit because you know plenty more about the topic than I do since you worked for them. but I disagree that their stronghold in the market was "incredibly short". the Xbox 360 is considered one of the greatest video game consoles of all time. feats like that take a long time to achieve. It's just that the goodwill didn't last into the next generation or the current one.

There's nothing Spencer could actually do.The only thing that sells console hardware is true exclusive software and Microsoft isn't going to pull their games from PC.

I disagree with this too. Sony had a very uphill battle to fight in the seventh generation what with the high price of the Ps3, the difficulties developing for it, and even the infamous hack in 2011 after they started evening the playing field with Microsoft. but eventually, they did.

and if Sony can do it, Microsoft can do it too.

That's transparently where they want you playing anyway

I disagree with this too. if they didn't want you playing games on Xboxes at all, then they wouldn't be making Xboxes nor would they still be selling Xbox games. you said that them stopping with the hardware would also be them killing themselves in the gaming space altogether, but at the same time you also said that what they care about is being here digitally via the cloud anyway, so why would they view stopping with the hardware a suicide in the gaming space?

Stadia required a Chromecast to work.

I see. but it's not like Chromecast was being touted as the hardware behind Google's video game console, anyway.

Funny thing about Stadia is I knew that service was dying about year and a half before Google officially pulled the plug because Google randomly just gave me one via email. They didn't even charge me shipping.

Google is just notorious for failed products, man. Stadia, Google+, Allo, Nexus phones, etc. I'm kinda pleasantly surprised the Pixel phones have been around as long as they have. And I even see it out in the wild more often than I used to.

lots of places don't charge shipping these days either, so I don't think that's anything out of the ordinary.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

we're talking about three different console generations. Xbox 360 was the seventh generation, Xbone was the 8th, and Series X/S is the ninth. You said they went from being the lead target platform to making glorified gamepass roku boxes within one generation, and that just isn't true. this all happened within the span of 15+ years.

whenever we have a conversation, I will always concede and give you credit because you know plenty more about the topic than I do since you worked with them. but I disagree that their stronghold in the market was "incredible short". the Xbox 360 is considered one of the greatest video game consoles of all time. feats like that take a long time to achieve. the goodwill just didn't last into the next generation or the current one.

I disagree with this too. Sony had a very uphill battle to fight in the seventh generation what with the high price of the Ps3, the difficulties developing for it, and even the infamous hack in 2011 after they started evening the playing field with Microsoft. but eventually, they did.

and if Sony can do it, Microsoft can do it too.

I disagree with this too. if they didn't want you playing games on Xboxes at all, then they wouldn't be making Xboxes nor would they still be selling Xbox games. you said that them stopping with the hardware would also be them killing themselves in the gaming space altogether, but at the same time you also said that what they care about is being here digitally via the cloud anyway, so why would they view stopping with the hardware a suicide in the gaming space?

I see. but it's not like Chromecast was being touted as the hardware behind Google's video game console, anyway.


Google is just notorious for failed products, man. Stadia, Google+, Allo, Nexus phones, etc. I'm kinda pleasantly surprised the Pixel phones have been around as long as they have. And I even see it out in the wild more often than I used to.

lots of places don't charge shipping these days either, so I don't think that's anything out of the ordinary.

If you build up a player base and pull the rug out from under them by telling them Xbox is dead, and they have to go to PC or Playstation, you will negatively effect your player base who's money you still want in the long run. Through initiatives like Play Anywhere and PC gamepass, you soften the blow overtime while maintaining some semblance of public trust. What they've objectively failed to account for is stagnant subscriber growth

Sony was able to mount a comeback because of true exclusive software and not being as transparently predatory as Don Mattrick. Even now they're smart enough to not do day 1 PC releases for single player games.

There is not a single release on the Xbox Series that I cannot get on PC. Even with the price hike, PC gamepass is still the cheapest option if you want day 1 access. I don't have to buy their hardware and they're giving me their content for next to nothing. That's not how you sell consoles lol.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

If you build up a player base and pull the rug out from under them by telling them Xbox is dead, and they have to go to PC or Playstation, you will negatively effect your player base who's money you still want in the long run. Through initiatives like Play Anywhere and PC gamepass, you soften the blow overtime while maintaining some semblance of public trust. What they've objectively failed to account for is stagnant subscriber growth

sure. but all this is to say that it doesn't make sense when you previously stated that the crash and burn was 100% that bad if there is still a lasting player base that they have a vested interest in.

Sony was able to mount a comeback because of true exclusive software and not being as transparently predatory as Don Mattrick. Even now they're smart enough to not do day 1 PC releases for single player games.

the point being that Sony was able to mount a comeback. if Sony was able to do it, Microsoft should have definitely been able to do it too. Don Mattrick left the same year of the Xbone's launch and Spencer had over 10 years to make the Xbox as a product more appealing. Xbox's market share is a fraction of PlayStation's even in their most popular regions, so he just failed at it.

honestly, exempting Spencer from any blame comes off as an apologist attitude in his favor. and I also want to point out that sometimes Sony does release day and date on PC, such as for live service games and the upcoming Until Dawn remake.

There is not a single release on the Xbox Series that I cannot get on PC. Even with the price hike, PC gamepass is still the cheapest option if you want day 1 access. I don't have to buy their hardware and they're giving me their content for next to nothing. That's not how you sell consoles lol.

well sure. we can talk all day about how Xbox hardware isn't as popular as Playstation hardware but I'm just saying it isn't SO unpopular that they're stopping the production of it.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

sure. but all this is to say that it doesn't make sense when you previously stated that the crash and burn was 100% that bad if there is still a lasting player base that they have a vested interest in.

the point being that Sony was able to mount a comeback. if Sony was able to do it, Microsoft should have definitely been able to do it too. Don Mattrick left the same year of the Xbone's launch and Spencer had over 10 years to make the Xbox as a product more appealing. he failed at doing so, so he just failed at it.

honestly, exempting Spencer from any blame comes off as an apologist attitude in his favor. and I also want to point out that sometimes Sony does release day and date on PC sometimes, such as for live service games and the upcoming Until Dawn remake.

well sure. we can talk all day about how Xbox hardware isn't as popular as Playstation hardware but I'm just saying it isn't SO unpopular that they're stopping the production of it.

No they're just shippoing smaller allotments of them because they've deliberately made the hardware irrelevant. All you need is a fire stick and gamepass sub now. Its hard to hold Spencer accountable when things are going according to plan. The only really hiccup is that stagnated subscriber growth which I don't really see changing even after the Activision buyout but the market could surprise me.

My point about Sony is that they were WILLING to dig themselves out of a hole and provide the exclusive software support needed to do that which make sense considering they're an electronics manufacturer first and software company second. Microsoft is a software company first and a hardware company second. Modern consoles are just X86 machines anyway so the gradual phase out makes sense from a software perspective too. You lower your physical manufacturing cost to zero and it makes the gamepass model more sustainable.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

No they're just shippoing smaller allotments of them because they've deliberately made the hardware irrelevant.

I made three separate points in response to you so I'm not sure which part of my post you're responding to with this.

All you need is a fire stick and gamepass sub now.

I am aware of that, but this is a new option of accessibility to Gamepass. Microsoft didn't coincide that announcement with another announcement of them ceasing to make Xbox hardware.

Its hard to hold Spencer accountable when things are going according to plan.

no, it's not hard to hold him accountable and as I said, exempting him from criticism is just being apologetic for him. buying Activision was his idea, so all of those studio closures is on him and his management team.

The only really hiccup is that stagnated subscriber growth which I don't really see changing even after the Activision buyout but the market could surprise me.

well I think that's part of the reason they're expanding to Amazon's firestick, isn't it? to try to grow subscription numbers again?

My point about Sony is that they were WILLING to dig themselves out of a hole and provide the exclusive software support needed to do that which make sense considering they're an electronics manufacturer first and software company second. Microsoft is a software company first and a hardware company second.

if Microsoft wasn't WILLING to dig themselves out of a hole and provide exclusive software support, then they wouldn't have bothered to buy Zenimax and then Activision after that. by all accounts they definitely tried, but failed. them being about software first and hardware second is a moot point because being in the console gaming industry means treating hardware as important as software. at this point, it almost sounds like making excuses for their lack in sales of Xboxes.

Modern consoles are just X86 machines anyway so the gradual phase out makes sense from a software perspective too. You lower your physical manufacturing cost to zero and it makes the gamepass model more sustainable.

I do not believe that Microsoft was always planning for it to go this way but is rather resorting to pivoting in this direction because their brand is so much less popular than Sony's or Nintendo's.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I made three separate points in response to you so I'm not sure which part of my post you're responding to with this.

I am aware of that, but this is a new option of accessibility to Gamepass. Microsoft didn't coincide that announcement with another announcement of them ceasing to make Xbox hardware.

no, it's not hard to hold him accountable and as I said, exempting him from criticism is just being apologetic for him. buying Activision was his idea, so all of those studio closures is on him and his management team.

well I think that's part of the reason they're expanding to Amazon's firestick, isn't it? to try to grow subscription numbers again?

if Microsoft wasn't WILLING to dig themselves out of a hole and provide exclusive software support, then they wouldn't have bothered to buy Zenimax and then Activision after that. by all accounts they definitely tried, but failed. them being about software first and hardware second is a moot point because being in the console gaming industry means treating hardware as important as software. at this point, it almost sounds like making excuses for their lack in sales of Xboxes.

I do not believe that Microsoft was always planning for it go this way but is rather resorting to pivoting in this direction because their brand is so much less popular than Sony's or Nintendo's.

Mass layoffs happen with any major corporate acquisition. Again, it's business as usual. Where's the pitchforks when EA or Disney does it? That's literally capitalism functioning as intended.

Do you honestly not understand what true exclusivity is and why it's important to selling hardware?

They bought these companies for their IP to pad out their subscription service because Flight Simulator, Halo, and Gears of War aren't enough lol. Prior to all the company buyouts, Microsoft had the worst first party lineup of the big three in terms of IP.

If salvaging their hardware division was a priority for them, these games would be exclusive to Xbox hardware.

I'm still waiting to hear if there's going to be any actual fallout from Microsoft straight up lying to the FTC.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Mass layoffs happen with any major corporate acquisition. Again, it's business as usual. Where's the pitchforks when EA or Disney does it? That's literally capitalism functioning as intended.

Microsoft making their biggest acquisition ever is definitely not business as usual. Those studios wouldn't have been shut down if Microsoft didn't acquire them. And if it was bound to happen, then that's just another reason why Microsoft shouldn't have been allowed to buy them.

Do you honestly not understand what true exclusivity is and why it's important to selling hardware?

of course I do, but what's that got to do with anything? you already established that part of the reason why Xbox's popularity declined is because their games started releasing day and date on PC. I understood that, but I also wanted to point out that on a case by case basis, Sony does the same thing.

They bought these companies for their IP to pad out their subscription service because Flight Simulator, Halo, and Gears of War aren't enough lol. Prior to all the company buyouts, Microsoft had the worst first party lineup of the big three in terms of IP.

Microsoft already had more studios than Sony before acquiring Activision. so they have had all of the tools and resources to add to their first party lineup. but instead of using what they had at their disposal, they got away with making the industry worse by buying the biggest piece of the industry, adding to industry consolidation and then ruining thousands of their own employees' lives by shutting them down.

If salvaging their hardware division was a priority for them, these games would be exclusive to Xbox hardware.

perhaps, but if they didn't care about Xbox hardware at all then they wouldn't be working on any followups to the Series X/S. so clearly, it is a priority just obviously not the top priority.

I'm still waiting to hear if there's going to be any actual fallout from Microsoft straight up lying to the FTC.

what did they lie about again?

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Microsoft making their biggest acquisition ever is definitely not business as usual. Those studios wouldn't have been shut down if Microsoft didn't acquire them. And if it was bound to happen, then that's just another reason why Microsoft shouldn't have been allowed to buy them.

of course I do, but what's that got to do with anything? you already established that part of the reason why Xbox's popularity declined is because their games started releasing day and date on PC. I understood that, but I also wanted to point out that on a case by case basis, Sony does the same thing.

Microsoft already had more studios than Sony before acquiring Activision. so they have had all of the tools and resources to add to their first party lineup. but instead of using what they had at their disposal, they got away with making the industry worse by buying the biggest piece of the industry, adding to industry consolidation and then ruining thousands of their own employees' lives by shutting them down.

perhaps, but if they didn't care about Xbox hardware at all then they wouldn't be working on any followups to the Series X/S. so clearly, it is a priority just obviously not the top priority.

what did they lie about?

Tango and Arkane Austin would have shutdown under Zenimax regardless. Their games don't sell. They review well and garner cult followings but the average gamer isn't interested and if you're not making people money, you're unemployed. Redfall existed because nobody bought Prey or Deathloop in an attempt cater to a wider audience not just me and other six people that love immersive sims. Ghostwire didn’t move the needle either. Would HI Fi Rush even had seen the light of day under Zenimax? We'll never know.

The only thing out of the ordinary here is the size of the merger and the fact the FTC allowed it to happen. Remove those two aspects and its just another corporate merger. Layoffs after corporate mergers are business as usual. Embracer is laying off people too. EA is infamous for buying and closing studio's too. It's how the triple A industry works. If anyone honestly thought this deal wouldn't have massive collateral damage, they're clearly not paying attention.

You're making the assumption that the next Xbox is another x86 console. It could very well just be a streaming device. It could also be just another midrange x86 machine Anything is possible but my bet is on former.

Microsoft lied to the FTC claiming their subs wouldn't see a price increase due to the merger.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Tango and Arkane Austin would have shutdown under Zenimax regardless. Their games don't sell. They review well and garner cult followings but the average gamer isn't interested and if you're not making people money, you're unemployed. Redfall existed because nobody bought Prey or Deathloop in an attempt cater to a wider audience not just me and other six people that love immersive sims. Ghostwire didn’t move the needle either. Would HI Fi Rush even had seen the light of day under Zenimax? We'll never know.

the key words are the bolded there. there is no way to know what would have happened to Tango or Arcane if Zenimax wasn't acquired, and I am inclined to believe that Microsoft acquiring them is what led to the demise. there is a lot of assumption and speculation on your part, giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt.

The only thing out of the ordinary here is the size of the merger and the fact the FTC allowed it to happen. Remove those two aspects and its just another corporate merger.

well yeah it's a very HUGE size out of the ordinary. this was literally Microsoft's biggest acquisition of all time, Activision was THE largest independent publisher and just by the virtue of those facts, this ain't "just another corporate merger". FTC shouldn't have allowed Microsoft to do it just like Disney shouldn't have been allowed to buy Fox, but yet here we are.

Embracer is laying off people too. EA is infamous for buying and closing studio's too. It's how the triple A industry works.

those layoffs were not the direct result of a company buyout. this is why I am saying Microsoft's recent studio closures are a direct result of the acquisition and the high higher ups at Microsoft not seeing the immediate benefits of the acquisition. layoffs can and will continue to happen, but one way that the layoffs from Microsoft's four new acquired studios could have been avoided is if those four studios were not acquired in the first place.

If anyone honestly thought this deal wouldn't have massive collateral damage, they're clearly not paying attention.

you're just further proving to me how awful it is that Microsoft got away with buying Activision. I hated the fact that it was happening for a myriad of reasons but people's lives being ruined is a big part of it.

You're making the assumption that the next Xbox is another x86 console. It could very well just be a streaming device. It could also be just another midrange x86 machine Anything is possible but my bet is on former.

I'm not making any assumptions at all; I'm not saying anything about what the hardware will be. But if there is going to be another Xbox and you're suggesting it may very well just be a streaming device, then would such a device even be a video game console?

Microsoft lied to the FTC claiming their subs wouldn't see a price increase due to the merger.

dang. well, Microsoft has the best lawyers in the world seeing as how they won. and given that they are the biggest company in the world, I think the FTC will either look the other way or will just get told by the lawyers.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

the key words are the bolded there. there is no way to know what would have happened to Tango or Arcane if Zenimax wasn't acquired, and I am inclined to believe that Microsoft acquiring them is what led to the demise. there is a lot of assumption and speculation on your part, giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt.

well yeah it's a very HUGE size out of the ordinary. this was literally Microsoft's biggest acquisition of all time, Activision was THE largest independent publisher and just by the virtue of those facts, this ain't "just another corporate merger". FTC shouldn't have allowed Microsoft to do it just like Disney shouldn't have been allowed to buy Fox, but yet here we are.

those layoffs were not the direct result of a company buyout. this is why I am saying Microsoft's recent studio closures are a direct result of the acquisition and the high higher ups at Microsoft not seeing the immediate benefits of the acquisition. layoffs can and will continue to happen, but one way that the layoffs from Microsoft's four new acquired studios could have been avoided is if those four studios were not acquired in the first place.

you're just further proving to me how awful it is that Microsoft got away with buying Activision. I hated the fact that it was happening for a myriad of reasons but people's lives being ruined is a big part of it.

I'm not making any assumptions at all; I'm not saying anything about what the hardware will be. But if there is going to be another Xbox and you're suggesting it very well just be a streaming device, then would such a device even be video game console?

dang. well, Microsoft has the best lawyers in the world seeing how they won. and given that they are the biggest company in the world, I think the FTC will either look the other way or will just get told by the lawyers.

How many triple A studios do you know of that consistently underperform and get to keep their doors open?

The embracer layoffs are a direct result of embracer acquiring the Eidos side of Square Enix.

If it's a dedicated gaming device that's locked to a specific platform's ecosystem, that's a console to me. Stadia was a console to me. It just sucked lol

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

How many triple A studios do you know of that consistently underperform and get to keep their doors open?

I don't know any triple A studios that consistently underperform and get to keep their doors open. But I do know several triple A studios that were recently acquired by Microsoft and even more recently shut down.

The embracer layoffs are a direct result of embracer acquiring the Eidos side of Square Enix.

once again you're further proving my point about how Microsoft should not have been allowed to acquire Activision, since its studios' closures are a direct result of that action.

If it's a dedicated gaming device that's locked to a specific platform's ecosystem, that's a console to me. Stadia was a console to me. It just sucked lol

fair enough if that's how you see it personally, but consensus wise it doesn't seem like the Stadia is considered a console. it was its own category, a cloud gaming service.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

posted this in the Deadpool 3 thread but it is also relevant here

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I don't know any triple A studios that consistently underperform and get to keep their doors open. But I do know several triple A studios that were recently acquired by Microsoft and even more recently shut down.

once again you're further proving my point about how Microsoft should not have been allowed to acquire Activision, since its studios' closures are a direct result of that action.

fair enough if that's how you see it personally, but consensus wise it doesn't seem like the Stadia is considered a console. it was its own category, a cloud gaming service.

The problem is capitalism isn't a meritocracy. It doesn't matter how well a game reviews or how objectively well designed something is, if it's costing 150 million dollars to make and it's not recouping that money fast enough for the bean counters, you're going to be out of a job. That cult success might buy you some time (which is what we saw with both Tango and Arkane Austin) but it's not gonna keep you employed if your projects keep eating money.

My point being that you're mad about something that was inevitable in one way or another. Mergers and acquisitions happen and will continue to happen.

Is it insane to me that Harvey Smith, one of the greatest design minds in this industry, got laid off? Absolutely, but this was Arkane Austin's third chance to move the needle and they failed. It sucks but I understand how we got here.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

The problem is capitalism isn't a meritocracy. It doesn't matter how well a game reviews or how objectively well designed something is, if it's costing 150 million dollars to make and it's not recouping that money fast enough for the bean counters, you're going to be out of a job. That cult success might buy you some time (which is what we saw with both Tango and Arkane Austin) but it's not gonna keep you employed if your projects keep eating money.

Sure but this isn't anything new nor does it change anything. I do not believe (and you cannot disprove) that those four studios that Microsoft shut down would have shut down if Microsoft did not become the new bosses of Activision Blizzard & Zenimax.

My point being that you're mad about something that was inevitable in one way or another. Mergers and acquisitions happen and will continue to happen.

It's hard to tell which of my points you're responding to if you respond to my whole post and jumble all of the responses into one. Just because mergers and acquisitions happen doesn't mean that this merger/acquisition should have been approved. It shouldn't have gone through.

Is it insane to me that Harvey Smith, one of the greatest design minds in this industry, got laid off? Absolutely, but this was Arkane Austin's third chance to move the needle and they failed. It sucks but I understand how we got here.

We got here because Microsoft acquired Arcane. I do not believe for one second that things would be the same for the studio if that didn't happen. They even admitted that they canceled their port of Redfall for the Ps5. The game would have most definitely sold more if that didn't happen.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Sure but this isn't anything new nor does it change anything. I do not believe (and you cannot disprove) that those four studios that Microsoft shut down would have shut down if Microsoft did not become the new bosses of Activision Blizzard & Zeninax.

It's hard to tell which of my points you're responding to if you respond to my whole post and jumble all of the responses into one. Just because mergers and acquisitions happen doesn't mean that this merger/acquisition should have been approved. It shouldn't have gone through.

We got here because Microsoft acquired Arcane. I do not believe for one second that things would be the same for the studio if that didn't happen. They even admitted that they canceled their port of Redfall for the Ps5. The game would have most definitely sold more if that didn't happen.

Basic mathematics and business practices prove Tango and Arkane Austin were on their way to closing their doors especially when it's clear that Zenimax was already in cost cutting mode trying to salvage the studios. Tangos projects got smaller and smaller and Arkane was forced to dumb their games down to appeal to a broaden audience. Furthermore, a PS5 port of Arkane's worst game would have cost more to produce than it would have made. Again, basic math.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Basic mathematics and business practices prove Tango and Arkane Austin were on their way to closing their doors especially when it's clear that Zenimax was already in cost cutting mode trying to salvage the studios. Tangos projects got smaller and smaller and Arkane was forced to dumb their games down to appeal to a broaden audience.

Wholeheartedly disagree. I do not believe basic mathematics and business practices can explain away excuses for these studios closing down. Microsoft has closed many studios and I 100% blame them for the closure of these studios that they acquired that they didn't need to acquire.

Furthermore, a PS5 port of Arkane's worst game would have cost more to produce than it would have made. Again, basic math.

I disagree with this too. Nearly all third party games sell significantly more copies on Ps5, so there's a good chance that far more revenue could have been generated if the studio making Redfall wasn't acquired, and the Ps5 version didn't get canceled.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Wholeheartedly disagree. I do not believe basic mathematics and business practices can explain away excuses for these studios closing down. Microsoft has closed many studios and I 100% blame them for the closure of these studios that they acquired that they didn't need to acquire.

I disagree with this too. Nearly all third party games sell significantly more copies on Ps5, so there's a good chance that far more revenue could have been generated if the studio making Redfall wasn't acquired, and the Ps5 version didn't get canceled.

You do understand that video games are a sales and retention based business right?

Arkane Austin and Tangos games were sales flops long before they were acquired which is the point I feel you're not grasping. If a studio is not returning on their parent company's investment, they will close. It doesn't matter who owns them be it Zenimax or Microsoft. There are only so many chances a publisher can give you to piss their money away

There's not a sales driven industry on the planet where you can consistently fail to meet sales expectations and still get to keep your job.

Furthermore, a Ps5 port of a game that needed at least two more years in development was in no way going to help. There's only about 16 hours worth of content in Redfall and you can clear it faster than that with the more people you have. Sure, you'll get the idiots that still preorder but by the end of the first week, sales would have dried up.