Xbox Xbox Series X Thread

[XtremelyBaneful]

What I mean by that is there hasn't been anything developed in the last 20 years that wouldn't be possible on other hardware from a gameplay perspective. Sure MGS4 pushed the ps3 to its graphical limits but the core gameplay experience could have been done elsewhere. Games just have larger polygon counts and higher texture resolution but core gameplay design peaked in the early 2000s.

I guess so, yeah. but that's not necessarily a bad thing. the foundation for core gameplay design was set in the early 2000s, and it's been improved upon year after year overtime. GTA6 might break that barrier, who knows?

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I guess so, yeah. but that's not necessarily a bad thing. the foundation for core gameplay design was set in the early 2000s, and it's been improved upon year after year overtime. GTA6 might break that barrier, who knows?

"Improved upon" is in the eye of the beholder. Simplified maybe. There's a reason Half-likes and boomer shooters have a made a resurgence. I dont expect GTA6 to break any barriers beyond being a larger and more obnoxious version of its predecessor. The biggest improvement GTAV made was allowing me to play it in first person because the third person combat is still dreadful after two decades.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

"Improved upon" is in the eye of the beholder. Simplified maybe. There's a reason Half-likes and boomer shooters have a made a resurgence. I dont expect GTA6 to break any barriers beyond being a larger and more obnoxious version of its predecessor. The biggest improvement GTAV made was allowing me to play it in first person because the third person combat is still dreadful after two decades.

I gotta be honest man, it sounds like this is just boiling down to your own personal opinion. which is fine, for you to feel how you feel, but I don't know if it's reasonable to explain the broader picture of things that's going on.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I gotta be honest man, it sounds like this is just boiling down to your own personal opinion. which is fine, for you to feel how you feel, but I don't know if it's reasonable to explain the broader picture of things that's going on.

I don't think it's really an opinion but more of an objective fact that games in the triple A space have gotten more bloated but substantially dumbed down in the actual moment to moment gameplay and difficulty to cater to a wider audience since the 7th gen. Fromsoft, the indie and the double A markets are literally celebrated for bucking this trend.

I also don't think its a particularly hot take to say that the combat in Rockstar games is terrible. We all know the combat isn't why people play GTA but that doesn't mean it can't be called out for it. The biggest editions to GTAs formula in V were multiple protagonists and the heists which were too few of. We're talking about a franchise that found its core formula with III and has been more iterative than innovative with it ever since which isn't necessary a problem but you would think they could figure out how to make the combat better considering how much of it you engage in throughout a playthrough One of the most jarring things about Red Dead 2 was how worse the combat was than the original lol. I bought Red Dead 2 for PS4 and didn't actually finish it until I bought it on PC so I could play it in first person at an acceptable frame rate and manually edit config files to fix a lot of the issues myself.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I don't think it's really an opinion but more of an objective fact that games in the triple A space have gotten more bloated but substantially dumbed down in the actual moment to moment gameplay and difficulty to cater to a wider audience since the 7th gen. Fromsoft, the indie and the double A markets are literally celebrated for bucking this trend.

but you didn't say this has been going on since the 7th gen, you said this has been going on for the last 20 years. unless you mean that this has been going right when the 360 released (which was actually 20 years ago), then this does come off more like an exaggeration rather than an objective fact.

I agree with you about Fromsoft, though. The Souls series went from being niche to becoming one of the best selling video game series of all time.

I also don't think its a particularly hot take to say that the combat in Rockstar games is terrible. We all know the combat isn't why people play GTA but that doesn't mean it can't be called out for it.

I didn't say it was a hot take, man. I said it is just your own personal opinion. If there is an aspect of a game you don't like, then by all means, call it out for what it is. Hot take or not.

The biggest editions to GTAs formula in V were multiple protagonists and the heists which were too few of. We're talking about a franchise that found its core formula with III and has been more iterative than innovative with it ever since which isn't necessary a problem but you would think they could figure out how to make the combat better considering how much of it you engage in throughout a playthrough

maybe it is a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" meaning the developers didn't see a need in changing that much about the combat even though there is a heavy amount if that you engage with throughout a playthrough.

One of the most jarring things about Red Dead 2 was how worse the combat was than the original lol. I bought Red Dead 2 for PS4 and didn't actually finish it until I bought it on PC so I could play it in first person at an acceptable frame rate and manually edit config files to fix a lot of the issues myself.

I haven't had the chance to play Redemption 2 yet, but Red Dead 1 was one of the greatest video games I had ever played. it is funny that you mention that you bought it again on PC and then finished it, because I was having a conversation with an old friend last night about GTA6, and he talked about how he's gonna wait for the PC release of the game to play it so that he won't have to pay to play the online portion of it.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

but you didn't say this has been going on since the 7th gen, you said this has been going on for the last 20 years. unless you mean that this has been going right when the 360 released (which was actually 20 years ago), then this does come off more like an exaggeration rather than an objective fact.

I agree with you about Fromsoft, though. The Souls series went from being niche to becoming one of the best selling video game series of all time.

I didn't say it was a hot take, man. I said it is just your own personal opinion. If there is an aspect of a game you don't like, then by all means, call it out for what it is. Hot take or not.

maybe it is a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" meaning the developers didn't see a need in changing that much about the combat even though there is a heavy amount if that you engage with throughout a playthrough.

I haven't had the chance to play Redemption 2 yet, but Red Dead 1 was one of the greatest video games I had ever played. it is funny that you mention that you bought it again on PC and then finished it, because I was having a conversation with an old friend last night about GTA6, and he talked about how he's gonna wait for the PC release of the game to play it so that he won't have to pay to play the online portion of it.

So we agree that the 7th gen was 20 years ago and no, it's not an exaggeration. We went from Deus Ex and Theif to Bioshock and Assassin's Creed in an incredibly short amount of time. Bioshock being the most egregious offender. Bethesda has been gradually dumbing their games down since Oblivion to the point where their latest game isn't even an RPG, it's open world shooter then you have what Call of Duty and Halo did to shooters. FPS campaigns became glorified rail shooters.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

So we agree that the 7th gen was 20 years ago and no, it's not an exaggeration.

I can agree with you that the 7th generation started 20 years ago with the launch of the Xbox 360, but are you literally saying that this lack of gameplay innovation started right at the launch of the 360?

We went from Deus Ex and Theif to Bioshock and Assassin's Creed in an incredibly short amount of time. Bioshock being the most egregious offender. Bethesda has been gradually dumbing their games down since Oblivion to the point where their latest game isn't even an RPG, it's open world shooter then you have what Call of Duty and Halo did to shooters. FPS campaigns became glorified rail shooters.

I don't know what tell you man, other than this really does seem like these are your subjective opinions, not objective facts. Bioshock 1 & 3 are considered some of the greatest games of all time. same with asscreed 1 & 3. and this is coming from someone who never even played ANY of those games.

FPS campaigns became glorified rail shooters.

well what is your source that "Half-likes and boomer shooters" have a made a resurgence?

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I bought an Xbox Series X for $300 (literally in box barely used, was a good deal) just so I could play Indiana Jones and the Great Circle (I'm a huge Indiana Jones fan and the reviews made it so I couldn't wait, honestly. I was impatient.).

I planned on selling the Xbox once Indy comes out on PS5, since that's my dedicated system.

Can anyone give me any reason not to get rid of the Xbox? What's the advantage, what games should I look into, etc.?

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I can agree with you that the 7th generation started 20 years ago with the launch of the Xbox 360, but are you literally saying that this lack of gameplay innovation started right at the launch of the 360?

I don't know what tell you man, other than this really does seem like these are your subjective opinions, not objective facts. Bioshock 1 & 3 are considered some of the greatest games of all time. same with asscreed 1 & 3. and this is coming from someone who never even played ANY of those games.

well what is your source that "Half-likes and boomer shooters" have a made a resurgence?

I 100% am saying the 7th gen was end of true innovation.

Then you should actually play these games and form YOUR own opinion rather than parrot the useless general consensus. Bioshock 1 is barely a proper video game let alone a proper ImSim. Bioshock doesn't have a true fail state unless you die on the final boss. When you die in Bioshock, you get telephorted to the nearest vitachamber which respawns you. You don't lose progress and enemies don't respawn or regain health. You only lose ammo which the game floods you with because the game is more concerned with you seeing it all than actually being a game. The shooting also feels like you're shooting unity assets because the AI is borderline nonexistent even if you up the difficulty. The way the vitachambers were implemented was so fundamentally broken, they had to release an update to give players the ability to turn them off if they wanted any semblance of a challenge. The narrative,which is the most lauded aspect of Bioshock, suffers from what I often refer to as the "reference syndrome" school of video game storytelling where game writers think making references to outside media and concepts immediately makes their story deeper. There's all this Randian nonsense in Bioshock's world building that has very little to do with the nuts and bolts of the story that's actually told and completely falls apart if you think about it for more than five minutes. It also shamelessly recycles the plot twist from System Shock 2 ( the game its a spiritual successor to.) The only reason Bioshock is held in such high regard is because System Shock 2 never got a console port.

Assassin's Creed is simply an open world stealth game with very little of note to actually do and the stealth doesn't matter because if they implemented any type of actual consequences to failure in games of this era, it would turn players off and they spent too much money developing these games to risk that.

Fallout 1 creator Tim Cain once said that if you don't like something about a game and wonder why something is implemented the way it is, the answer is always money: they didn't have enough money to properly implement the feature or they were afraid to implement it properly so they don't alienate a section of the audience.
I know why things were the way they were from a business perspective, but that doesn't mean it wasn't detrimental to the medium evolving creatively.

Games like Bioshock and Assassin's Creed turned me off of video games for almost two years. If your "GotY" is developed in such a way a toddler can complete it, why am I even bothering? I didn't get back into vdeo games until Deus Ex Human Revolution hit and proved it at the very least understood the assignment.

Boomer Shooter

Steam has a boomer shooter tag now and after the releases of Dusk, Ion Maiden, and Amid Evil, we're getting around to five to 10 new Boomer shooters or remasters a month. They're getting ported to everything too. The current Doom games have sold well while borrowing elements from Doom, Serious Sam and Quake.
As far as Half-likes go they're not as abundant yet but they're definitely on the rise. On the triple A side you have the modern Wolfenstein games and Metro. There's also dozens of indies out there. Ion Maiden's sequel, Ion Fury is a Half-like.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I bought an Xbox Series X for $300 (literally in box barely used, was a good deal) just so I could play Indiana Jones and the Great Circle (I'm a huge Indiana Jones fan and the reviews made it so I couldn't wait, honestly. I was impatient.).

I planned on selling the Xbox once Indy comes out on PS5, since that's my dedicated system.

Can anyone give me any reason not to get rid of the Xbox? What's the advantage, what games should I look into, etc.?

There's a new Perfect Dark coming that looks decent that likely won't hit playstation and all first party titles typically stay on gamepass but all that stuff is also on PC and could still see a playstation port. It's all up in the air currently. If you're not interested in gamepass, it's a 300 dollar paperweight in my opinion.

 

[blueharvest]

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I 100% am saying the 7th gen was end of true innovation.

Then you should actually play these games and form YOUR own opinion rather than parrot the useless general consensus.

Excuse me, what? How is a general consensus useless? You said you want to be objective about this, so having MY own opinion wouldn't contribute to the point I'm making.

I'm trying to be object here. The FACT of the matter is that those games mentioned are considered some of the greatest ever.

Bioshock 1 is barely a proper video game let alone a proper ImSim. Bioshock doesn't have a true fail state unless you die on the final boss. When you die in Bioshock, you get telephorted to the nearest vitachamber which respawns you. You don't lose progress and enemies don't respawn or regain health. You only lose ammo which the game floods you with because the game is more concerned with you seeing it all than actually being a game. The shooting also feels like you're shooting unity assets because the AI is borderline nonexistent even if you up the difficulty. The way the vitachambers were implemented was so fundamentally broken, they had to release an update to give players the ability to turn them off if they wanted any semblance of a challenge. The narrative,which is the most lauded aspect of Bioshock, suffers from what I often refer to as the "reference syndrome" school of video game storytelling where game writers think making references to outside media and concepts immediately makes their story deeper. There's all this Randian nonsense in Bioshock's world building that has very little to do with the nuts and bolts of the story that's actually told and completely falls apart if you think about it for more than five minutes. It also shamelessly recycles the plot twist from System Shock 2 ( the game its a spiritual successor to.) The only reason Bioshock is held in such high regard is because System Shock 2 never got a console port.

This all feels like it's just your personal opinion. Which is fine, you have a right to believe what you believe. But I fail to see how this changes anything.

Assassin's Creed is simply an open world stealth game with very little of note to actually do and the stealth doesn't matter because if they implemented any type of actual consequences to failure in games of this era, it would turn players off and they spent too much money developing these games to risk that.

There are tons of games on the asscreed series so are you relegating your opinion to literally all of the games at the same time?

Fallout 1 creator Tim Cain once said that if you don't like something about a game and wonder why something is implemented the way it is, the answer is always money: they didn't have enough money to properly implement the feature or they were afraid to implement it properly so they don't alienate a section of the audience.
I know why things were the way they were from a business perspective, but that doesn't mean it wasn't detrimental to the medium evolving creatively.

Tim Cain doesn't speak for the entire video game industry. If we're going to blame money, then you might as well say that ALL of this exists because of money. Video came companies are businesses, platform holders are businesses, and all they care about at the end of the day, is making as much money as possible. What's the point of saying so here?

Games like Bioshock and Assassin's Creed turned me off of video games for almost two years. If your "GotY" is developed in such a way a toddler can complete it, why am I even bothering? I didn't get back into video games until Deus Ex Human Revolution hit and proved it at the very least understood the assignment.

The bolded is a question that only you can answer. Look, I can relate to you on being turned off from video games for a period of time, but there is always an audience for games out there that isn't our cup of tea.

Skyrim is one of the best selling games of all time and also one of the greatest games of all time; never touched it, never desired to. But I can acknowledge its goat status.

Boomer Shooter

Steam has a boomer shooter tag now and after the releases of Dusk, Ion Maiden, and Amid Evil, we're getting around to five to 10 new Boomer shooters or remasters a month. They're getting ported to everything too. The current Doom games have sold well while borrowing elements from Doom, Serious Sam and Quake.
As far as Half-likes go they're not as abundant yet but they're definitely on the rise. On the triple A side you have the modern Wolfenstein games and Metro. There's also dozens of indies out there. Ion Maiden's sequel, Ion Fury is a Half-like.

Okay so Steam has a category for boomers, but I asked you for a source proving that they're making a resurgence. You're telling me there are 5-10 new games releasing a month in this genre? Do you have a source for that, too? Because that's going to very easily saturate market.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Excuse me, what? How is a general consensus useless? You said you want to be objective about this, so having MY own opinion wouldn't contribute to the point I'm making.

I'm trying to be object here. The FACT of the matter is that those games mentioned are considered some of the greatest ever.

This all feels like it's just your personal opinion. Which is fine, you have a right to believe what you believe. But I fail to see how this changes anything.

There are tons of games on the asscreed series so are you relegating your opinion to literally all of the games at the same time?

Tim Cain doesn't speak for the entire video game industry. If we're going to blame money, then you might as well say that ALL of this exists because of money. Video came companies are businesses, platform holders are businesses, and all they care about at the end of the day, is making as much money as possible. What's the point of saying so here?

The bolded is a question that only you can answer. Look, I can relate to you on being turned off from video games for a period of time, but there is always an audience for games out there that isn't our cup of tea.

Skyrim is one of the best selling games of all time and also one of the greatest games of all time; never touched it, never desired to. But I can acknowledge its goat status.

Okay so Steam has a category for boomers, but I asked you for a source proving that they're making a resurgence. You're telling me there are 5-10 new games releasing a month in this genre? Do you have a source for that, too? Because that's going to very easily saturate market.

Dude, you're being obtuse because you're reading things that go against the popular consensus. We're talking about a point in time when advertorial hype culture was at its peak. How can you claim a game is one of the "greatest games of all time" when YOU haven't actually played it? Commercial success is no way a indicator of quality or competent design. Mortal Kombat has always been a critical and commercial success but didn't become a competently desiged fighting game until its 9th entry. Do you always let the media form your opinions for you?

And no, my opinions on Bioshock are not simply opinions. I'll give you my comments about its writing and reception are debatable, but It is an objective fact that player death doesn't matter in that game. Its also an objective fact that the game floods you with with resources and that it recycles the plot twist from System Shock 2.

Whether or not a game is well liked or has an audience is irrelevant to the discussion. We're talking about innovation and precisely when it stagnated in the medium.
Watering down games from a previous generation and putting a shiny new coat of paint on them isn't innovative and that's what the beginning of the seventh generation was. Skyrim is literally the epitome of this as well. It is the same core experience as Morrowind with simpler mechanics and better graphics.

Tim Cain is a 40 year veteran of the games industry has and served in almost every position at every level of the game development process so yes, he does speak for the entire industry.

When I say Assassin's Creed, I mean the original specifically but the issues do permeate throughout the series in various degrees. They give you more to do in the but the stealth systems are still largely an afterthought.

Do you not know how to navigate steam because all of the information you're asking for is there if you know how to look. You can also check out ZlimBratski's youtube channel. He covers the genre in depth and goes through monthly new releases.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Dude, you're being obtuse because you're reading things that go against the popular consensus. We're talking about a point in time when advertorial hype culture was at its peak. How can you claim a game is one of the "greatest games of all time" when YOU haven't actually played it?

don't call me obtuse, man. you misunderstand me. there is a big difference between me saying "I believe that X is one of the greatest games of all time" and me saying "X is considered one of the greatest game of all time".

the first statement is me making an opinion about X. but the second statement is pointing out a fact, and that fact would be that a general consensus exists, that consensus being that X is a GOAT game.

I literally never said that I think Bioshock1/3/asscreed1/3 is one of the greatest games of all time. I said it is considered to be (not by me) one of the greatest games of all time.

Commercial success is no way a indicator of quality or competent design.

Nobody said anything at all about commercial success being an indicator of quality or competent design. what's that even got to do with anything?

Do you always let the media form your opinions for you?

which "opinions" of mine are you even referring to? and no, I don't always agree with the consensus, if that's what you're implying.

And no, my opinions on Bioshock are not simply opinions.

um...yes they are. your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's who has played Bioshock.

I'll give you my comments about its writing and reception are debatable, but It is an objective fact that player death doesn't matter in that game. Its also an objective fact that the game floods you with with resources and that it recycles the plot twist from System Shock 2.

you're right. I'll concede and give you credit that when you gave me comments about how the game works, then you were being objective. but the moment you started talking about how you feel about how the game works, then you're no longer being objective. you've started giving your opinions again.

Whether or not a game is well liked or has an audience is irrelevant to the discussion. We're talking about innovation and precisely when it stagnated in the medium.
Watering down games from a previous generation and putting a shiny new coat of paint on them isn't innovative and that's what the beginning of the seventh generation was. Skyrim is literally the epitome of this as well. It is the same core experience as Morrowind with simpler mechanics and better graphics.

you said up above that foundation for core gameplay design being improved upon is in the eye of the beholder. so I'd say it absolutely is relevant to the discussion. you have a problem with a lack of innovation. I can respect that.

innovation is great, but there doesn't have to be innovation all the time to affirm that video games are delivering to their audiences. plenty of games, critically acclaimed have come and gone within the past 20 years without revolutionizing the industry.

Tim Cain is a 40 year veteran of the games industry has and served in almost every position at every level of the game development process

so what? Hideo Kojima came up with a pathetic explanation as to why a female character is overtly sexualized in one of his video games, in an entertainment media that has been guilty of sexualizing female characters for as long as it has existed. and by your logic, the answer he gives is acceptable since he is a veteran of the industry for almost as long as that guy.

so yes, he does speak for the entire industry.

says who? who gave him the authority to speak for everyone? you?

When I say Assassin's Creed, I mean the original specifically but the issues do permeate throughout the series in various degrees. They give you more to do in the but the stealth systems are still largely an afterthought.

Do you not know how to navigate steam because all of the information you're asking for is there if you know how to look. You can also check out ZlimBratski's youtube channel. He covers the genre in depth and goes through monthly new releases.

not at all. I've never used steam so if I have to navigate a certain to find the info you're talking about, then no. I don't know where to look.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

don't call me obtuse, man. you misunderstand me. there is a big difference between me saying "I believe that X is one of the greatest games of all time" and me saying "X is considered one of the greatest game of all time".

the first statement is me making an opinion about X. but the second statement is pointing out a fact, and that fact would be that a general consensus exists, that consensus being that X is a GOAT game.

I literally never said that I think Bioshock1/3/asscreed1/3 is one of the greatest games of all time. I said it is considered to be (not by me) one of the greatest games of all time.

Nobody said anything at all about commercial success being an indicator of quality or competent design. what's that even got to do with anything?

which "opinions" of mine are you even referring to? and no, I don't always agree with the consensus, if that's what you're implying.

um...yes they are. your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's who has played Bioshock.

you're right. I'll concede and give you credit that when you gave me comments about how the game works, then you were being objective. but the moment you started talking about how you feel about how the game works, then you're no longer being objective. you've started giving your opinions again.

you said up above that foundation for core gameplay design being improved upon is in the eye of the beholder. so I'd say it absolutely is relevant to the discussion. you have a problem with a lack of innovation. I can respect that.

innovation is great, but there doesn't have to be innovation all the time to affirm that video games are delivering to their audiences. plenty of games, critically acclaimed have come and gone within the past 20 years without revolutionizing the industry.

so what? Hideo Kojima came up with a pathetic explanation as to why a female character is overtly sexualized in one of his video games, in an entertainment media that has been guilty of sexualizing female characters for as long as it has existed. and by your logic, the answer he gives is acceptable since he is a veteran of the industry for almost as long as that guy.

says who? who gave him the authority to speak for everyone? you?

not at all. I've never used steam so if I have to navigate a certain to find the info you're talking about, then no. I don't know where to look.

"Skyrim is one of the best selling games of all time and also one of the greatest games of all time; never touched it,"

You literally said this.

Also, the Kojima comparison is a false equivalency. Tim Cain has served in positions at everything level at the development process so his take on why features are the way the are is based on 40 years of experience of game development. That's what makes him an authority on this subject. He has actively had to make these decisions based market research and player feedback. He is the definition of an expert in this field.

20 years without true innovation and now we're on the verge of secondary industry crash. Lack of innovation may not play the largest part of why the triple A space is in shambles, but it is definitely is a factor.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

"Skyrim is one of the best selling games of all time and also one of the greatest games of all time; never touched it,"

You literally said this.

You're right, I did say that. So I'll concede, you got me there.

Also, the Kojima comparison is a false equivalency. Tim Cain has served in positions at everything level at the development process so his take on why features are the way the are is based on 40 years of experience of game development.

Kojima has 35 years of experience of game development! How the hell is the comparison a false equivalency? The 5 year difference when we're talking about 3 or 4 DECADES?

That's what makes him an authority on this subject.

Again, who says he gets to speak for everyone? You?

He has actively had to make these decisions based market research and player feedback.

He said the answer is money. Like I said before If we're going to blame money, then you might as well say that ALL of this exists because of money.

Video came companies are businesses, platform holders are businesses, and all they care about at the end of the day, is making as much money as possible. So all the decisions he's made based on market research and player feedback is all just to make as much money as possible.

He is the definition of an expert in this field.

So is Kojima, based on your logic.

20 years without true innovation and now we're on the verge of secondary industry crash. Lack of innovation may not play the largest part of why the triple A space is in shambles, but it is definitely is a factor.

So what exactly does an industry crash mean? What's going to happen? You previously said the whole entertainment industry is going to crash but now it sounds like you're saying it's just the video game industry.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

You're right, I did say that. So I'll concede, you got me there.

Kojima has 35 years of experience of game development! How the hell is the comparison a false equivalency? The 5 year difference when we're talking about 3 or 4 DECADES?

Again, who says he gets to speak for everyone? You?

He said the answer is money. Like I said before If we're going to blame money, then you might as well say that ALL of this exists because of money.

Video came companies are businesses, platform holders are businesses, and all they care about at the end of the day, is making as much money as possible. So all the decisions he's made based on market research and player feedback is all just to make as much money as possible.

So is Kojima, based on your logic.

So what exactly does an industry crash mean? What's going to happen? You previously said the whole entertainment industry is going to crash but now it sounds like you're saying it's just the video game industry.

It's a false equivalency because Cain is using his expertise to explain why the industry functions the way it does. Money being the end goal is literally his point. These decisions are based on the bottom line. Kojima is trying to defend a sexist creative decision he made which has nothing to do his time and experience as a game dev. Let's put it another way, what makes your doctor an authority in medicine? I only brought up Tim to illiterate that I understand why dumbing the medium down made sense financially but that doesn't mean it wasn't detrimental creatively.

I only brought up video game crash because its the sector relevant to this discussion but the entertainment industry is in trouble across the board. My stance on that hasn't changed at all.

What does a crash mean? It means you're gonna see a lot of people lose their jobs, studios close, acquisitions upon acquisitions. Tencenct are mulling over Ubisofts corpse as we speak and they used to be a major third party publisher. These industries won't die. They didn't in the first crash, but it drastically changed how they did business moving forward. Nintendo became a market leader in the 80s by learning what happened with Atari. They went out of there way to make sure knew customers knew what they were buying and attempted inact some semblance of quality control. I currently work in the indie sector which won't feel much of an impact from triple A crashing.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

It's a false equivalency because Cain is using his expertise to explain why the industry functions the way it does. Money being the end goal is literally his point. These decisions are based on the bottom line. Kojima is trying to defend a sexist creative decision he made which has nothing to do his time and experience as a game dev. Let's put it another way, what makes your doctor an authority in medicine? I only brought up Tim to illiterate that I understand why dumbing the medium down made sense financially but that doesn't mean it wasn't detrimental creatively.

fair enough, then. while I can't fully agree with you that one person can speak for a whole industry, I think I understand what you're saying now.

I only brought up video game crash because its the sector relevant to this discussion but the entertainment industry is in trouble across the board. My stance on that hasn't changed at all.

What does a crash mean? It means you're gonna see a lot of people lose their jobs, studios close, acquisitions upon acquisitions. Tencenct are mulling over Ubisofts corpse as we speak and they used to be a major third party publisher. These industries won't die. They didn't in the first crash, but it drastically changed how they did business moving forward. Nintendo became a market leader in the 80s by learning what happened with Atari. They went out of there way to make sure knew customers knew what they were buying and attempted inact some semblance of quality control. I currently work in the indie sector which won't feel much of an impact from triple A crashing.

the bolded is already happening though, and it always has. I thought you said before that we are on the brink of an entire entertainment industry crash. so what would that look like?

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

fair enough, then. while I can't fully agree with you that one person can speak for a whole industry, I think I understand what you're saying now.

the bolded is already happening though, and it always has. I thought you said before that we are on the brink of an entire entertainment industry crash. so what would that look like?

You're gonna see major players go away entirely and and other companies take their place. you'll see a massive return to mid budget projects. Ubisoft doesn't have another five years in the tank which is why tencent will likely acquire them. I dont see EA being around in 10 years either unless they drastically change how they do business and the business models they employ. Who knows what hardware is gonna look like considering both Sony and Microsoft have completely lost the plot on what console gaming is supposed to be. Nintendo will likely be fine. They're a market unto themselves at this point.

The music industry is already dead from the creative side. You're either an established act that came to prominence prior to the streaming era or you're social media influencer who also happens to make music. I'm in a punk band as a hobby and we always joke that we're not musicians, we're talking shirt salesman. The music has become secondary to merchandise

With film and television, it's the game pass problem: studios are spending billions to make millions and devaluing their content by giving it away on streaming. It probably won't, but I wouldn't be surprised if Captain America 4 underperforms and if the new DCU doesn't do for what it's supposed to do financially, Warner gets sold again.

TLDR: I see mid budget becoming the focal point moving forward. In games, your double A projects become the new triple A, in movies and TV, the 40 to 60 million dollar projects become the new tent pole releases. The music industry is just ****ed across the board lol.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

You're gonna see major players go away entirely and and other companies take their place. you'll see a massive return to mid budget projects. Ubisoft doesn't have another five years in the tank which is why tencent will likely acquire them. I dont see EA being around in 10 years either unless they drastically change how they do business and the business models they employ. Who knows what hardware is gonna look like considering both Sony and Microsoft have completely lost the plot on what console gaming is supposed to be. Nintendo will likely be fine. They're a market unto themselves at this point.

why would you say Microsoft and Sony lost the plot? Xbox may have suffered such a severe drop of hardware demand that they had to pivot their goals altogether, but Sony's drop of hardware demand hasn't been as severe. their hardware still sells, just not as well as it used to.

The music industry is already dead from the creative side. You're either an established act that came to prominence prior to the streaming era or you're social media influencer who also happens to make music. I'm in a punk band as a hobby and we always joke that we're not musicians, we're talking shirt salesman. The music has become secondary to merchandise

no way, man. The Weeknd rose to prominence during the streaming era and he's still one of if not the most listened to artist in the world.

With film and television, it's the game pass problem: studios are spending billions to make millions and devaluing their content by giving it away on streaming. It probably won't, but I wouldn't be surprised if Captain America 4 underperforms and if the new DCU doesn't do for what it's supposed to do financially, Warner gets sold again.

I think this is just what the world has become, though. humans always strive to make things easier, more convenient. and that's what streaming is. I don't think video games can work subscription based the way television and movies have, though. Maybe Microsoft thought game pass could go the way of Netflix, but it hasn't.

as for Captain America 4, I think Deadpool 3 has ensured a bright future for the MCU ahead. idk about the DCU though, everything happening there is very confusing to me. so the old DCEU is completely dead, and everything now is a full reboot?

TLDR: I see mid budget becoming the focal point moving forward. In games, your double A projects become the new triple A, in movies and TV, the 40 to 60 million dollar projects become the new tent pole releases. The music industry is just ****ed across the board lol.

I always read your posts to the fullest but I appreciate you making a tldr version lol. and you think the focus on subscriptions/streaming is what ultimately led to all of this?

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

why would you Microsoft and Sony lost the plot? Xbox may have suffered such a severe drop of hardware demand that they had to pivot their goals altogether, but Sony's drop of hardware demand hasn't been as severe. their hardware still sells, just not as well as it used to.

no way, man. The Weeknd rose to prominence during the streaming era and he's still one of if not the most listened to artist in the world.

I think this is just what the world has become, though. humans always strive to make things easier, more convenient. and that's what streaming is. I don't think video games can work subscription based the way television and movies have, though. Maybe Microsoft thought game pass could go the way of Netflix, but it hasn't.

as for Captain America 4, I think Deadpool 3 has ensured a bright future for the MCU ahead. idk about the DCU though, everything happening there is very confusing to me. so the old DCEU is completely dead, and everything now is a full reboot?

I always read your posts to the fullest but I appreciate you making a tldr version lol. and you think the focus on subscriptions/streaming is what ultimately led to all of this?

They've lost the plot in multiple ways by offering their software on different platforms which removes the incentive to actually purchase the consoles. The first party libraries on both Xbox and PlayStation this generation has been the worse lineups seen in the history of either brand. There's also the "put it and play" ease of use that consoles are supposed to provide that what abandoned years ago. Sony is still focused on hardware power despite the fact they keep making the same handful of experiences.

The Weekend is clearly the exception and they're still not making the kind of money they would have 15 to 30 years ago.

Deadpool 3 had a lot things working in its favor mostly nostalgia which will cause it to age like milk. By the time my kids are old enough to watch it, I'll have to explain most of the jokes to them. I think the true testament of the MCUs longevity will tested this year.

If I can find the article again, I'll link it but I was reading about a study that suggested younger nearly as emotionally attached to the media they consume because it's so readily available at the touch of a screen. There's no ritual of discovery anymore which makes sense to me. I remember back on the 90s having to special order punk cds and discovering movies like They Live and Hellraiser through Joe Bob Briggs and Up All Night on USA. I remember getting the sharware version of Doom and having to mail ID money for the full version. It took effort and I think that personally shaped the relationship I have with a lot of the stuff I love. Kid's don't really have that anymore.

The monetary problem with subscription services is they actively devalue the media as a whole. Why am I spending the cost of my subscription on a movie ticket when the film will be streaming less than 60 days after it hits theaters?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

They've lost the plot in multiple ways by offering their software on different platforms which removes the incentive to actually purchase the consoles.

it's interesting that you feel that way because several pages ago, you said that Sony was doing things right in terms of making incentive to buy their hardware by not releasing their software day & date with PC.

The first party libraries on both Xbox and PlayStation this generation has been the worse lineups seen in the history of either brand.

maybe I agree with you here, but I'm honestly not sure. this is also subjective. playstation just earned GOTY for a breakout hit last year on a sub $70 platform game. I think that's a pretty big deal.

There's also the "put it and play" ease of use that consoles are supposed to provide that what abandoned years ago. Sony is still focused on hardware power

the "plugin & play" ease of use is what draws me to consoles in the first place. Nintendo is definitely still doing it, but their consoles don't really evolve in power ever since the Wii U, I guess. The jump from Wii to the Wii U was significant, but the hardware in the Wii U was already outdated since it was most similar to Ps3/360, which were already on the market for half a decade by that time.

despite the fact they keep making the same handful of experiences.

but their audience loves those experiences though, so what's the problem? gow ragnarok, Horizon Forbidden West, Spider-Man 2 have all been big hits for them.

The Weekend is clearly the exception and they're still not making the kind of money they would have 15 to 30 years ago.

The Weeknd is the immediate example that I'll always come to (everyone who knows me personally would know why, plus my avatar is a clue lol), but there are plenty of others within his generation that made it, too.

say, you're in a band, huh? I'll check your stuff out. what's it called?

Deadpool 3 had a lot things working in its favor mostly nostalgia which will cause it to age like milk.

that I can agree with. I was very excited for Deadpool 3, but was very letdown. I know we're in the minority for this train of thought, though.

By the time my kids are old enough to watch it, I'll have to explain most of the jokes to them.

I didn't even know you had kids! so you are a family man

I think the true testament of the MCUs longevity will tested this year.

if you mean Cap4, then yeah. I guess there is a bit of uncertainty on how that movie will perform, and we can already imagine what factors people will come up with on whatever the outcome is.

but I think the true testament will be the next Avengers movie, what with bringing back RDJ and all that nonsense.

If I can find the article again, I'll link it but I was reading about a study that suggested younger nearly as emotionally attached to the media they consume because it's so readily available at the touch of a screen. There's no ritual of discovery anymore which makes sense to me. I remember back on the 90s having to special order punk cds and discovering movies like They Live and Hellraiser through Joe Bob Briggs and Up All Night on USA. I remember getting the sharware version of Doom and having to mail ID money for the full version. It took effort and I think that personally shaped the relationship I have with a lot of the stuff I love. Kid's don't really have that anymore.

The monetary problem with subscription services is they actively devalue the media as a whole. Why am I spending the cost of my subscription on a movie ticket when the film will be streaming less than 60 days after it hits theaters?

please link it if you because it sounds like an important read, and you're right. subscription services absolutely does devalue media, and it's what I said. it's just about how mankind just prioritizes convenience. buying less physical media just means less clutter, less getting up to insert discs or remove discs, and so on and so forth.

but what you're saying about how the younger generation has less emotional attachment and ritual of discovery, that makes a lot of sense. that's also why it's important to limit screentime for very young children.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

it's interesting that you feel that way because several pages ago, you said that Sony was doing things right in terms of making incentive to buy their hardware by not releasing their software day & date with PC.

maybe I agree with you here, but I'm honestly not sure. this is also subjective. playstation just earned GOTY for a breakout hit last year on a sub $70 platform game. I think that's a pretty big deal.

the "plugin & play" ease of use is what draws me to consoles in the first place. Nintendo is definitely still doing it, but their consoles don't really evolve in power ever since the Wii U, I guess. The jump from Wii to the Wii U was significant, but the hardware in the Wii U was already outdated since it was most similar to Ps3/360, which were already on the market for half a decade by that time.

but their audience loves those experiences though, so what's the problem? gow ragnarok, Horizon Forbidden West, Spider-Man 2 have all been big hits for them.

The Weeknd is the immediate example that I'll always come to (everyone who knows me personally would know why, plus my avatar is a clue lol), but there are plenty of others within his generation that made it, too.

say, you're in a band, huh? I'll check your stuff out. what's it called?

that I can agree with. I was very excited for Deadpool 3, but was very letdown. I know we're in the minority for this train of thought, though.

I didn't even know you had kids! so you are a family man

if you mean Cap4, then yeah. I guess there is a bit of uncertainty on how that movie will perform, and we can already imagine what factors people will come up with on whatever the outcome is.

but I think the true testament will be the next Avengers movie, what with bringing back RDJ and all that nonsense.

please link it if you because it sounds like an important read, and you're right. subscription services absolutely does devalue media, and it's what I said. it's just about how mankind just prioritizes convenience. buying less physical media just means less clutter, less getting up to insert discs or remove discs, and so on and so forth.

but what you're saying about how the younger generation has less emotional attachment and ritual of discovery, that makes a lot of sense. that's also why it's important to limit screentime for very young children.

What meant about Sony is there at least attempting to get fomo sales before the inevitable PC ports. They're still cannibalizing their own hardware sales by offering PC ports at all.

With Sony making the same five games over and over again, the law of diminishing returns with inevitably rear its ugly head. It could take five years or could take 20 like it did with Bethesda but the audience will grow bored with your output. It's not a question of if, but when this happens.

My band, MPA, was in the process of recording our debut release then our singer graduated from grad school and got a real job so now we're in limbo looking for a new singer. Once the album is out, I'll post it everywhere lol.

It's just a really wild time in gaming. I'm playing more indies now than ever. The last two triple A titles I played recently for my own enjoyment were Marvel Rivals and Space Marine 2.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

What meant about Sony is there at least attempting to get fomo sales before the inevitable PC ports. They're still cannibalizing their own hardware sales by offering PC ports at all.

although they're cannibalizing their own hardware sales, by not selling PC ports day & date with their console ports, they are at least still making profits on their hardware. it's an odd look, I agree, for playstation games to be on PC, but the incentive still exists for their fan base that doesn't want to wait.

With Sony making the same five games over and over again, the law of diminishing returns with inevitably rear its ugly head. It could take five years or could take 20 like it did with Bethesda but the audience will grow bored with your output. It's not a question of if, but when this happens.

I know what you mean when you say same 5 games over and over again, but I think it's a little unfair to say that. with their tentpole franchises, were there ever complaints that these games just feel all the same, too similar to previous entries in each respective franchise?

My band, MPA, was in the process of recording our debut release then our singer graduated from grad school and got a real job so now we're in limbo looking for a new singer. Once the album is out, I'll post it everywhere lol.

MPA! what does that stand for? do you guys have any other projects available? like an EP or a mixtape or something?

It's just a really wild time in gaming. I'm playing more indies now than ever. The last two triple A titles I played recently for my own enjoyment were Marvel Rivals and Space Marine 2.

when I have spare time for some quick gaming, I'll hop onto Rocket League. I'm sad that they took the 4v4 away. I have a suspicion that my wife got me a Ps Portal for my birthday and if she did, that means I'll be able make more room in my schedule for gaming.

 

[blueharvest]