Justice League ZACK SNYDER’S JUSTICE LEAGUE - RATE & REVIEW THREAD (SPOILERS!!!)

[kguillou]

Nice question that applies to me too... I'm of very similar mind to souvlaki.

Yes, I really want to hear more from the people who did not like Snyder’s films beforehand.

 

[Holy Slapper]

The movie still sucks its just longer.

Granted it's better in a lot of ways to the TC but Whedon's version had some things I liked that I wish they kept. This movie did not have to be 4 hrs long.

Still only the 3rd best DCEU movie behind WW and Shazam.

300 and Dawn of the Dead are still Snyder's best movies, hell even Watchmen, so I don't get the whole "it's his best movie!" Comments.

I would have kept the race with Supes and Flash.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Yes, I really want to hear more from the people who did not like Snyder’s films beforehand.

I don't like Snyder's films and still don't like his films. This didn't change my opinion of him.

 

[First Avenger]

Yes, I really want to hear more from the people who did not like Snyder’s films beforehand.

I found MoS to be a 5.5 and BvS UE a 4.5, but JL Is a 7 at least after one viewing. I liked a lot of what they did in the movie, with Cyborg and Flash being the highlights of it all. I didn't mind the runtime even if it was a bit too much for the story the movie told, a 3 hours theatrical cut of movie was totally doable imo. What drags the movie down is the eccessive Snyderism of some scenes (WW murdering those people in front of those children and the following scene between Diana and the Little girl), I still don't like his version of Superman and the three epilogues After the iconic Superman ripping shirt scenes got progressively worse with the Bruce/MM scene being particularly bad. But yeah it's the First Snyder movie since Watchmen I've genuinely liked.

 

[cabel]

I would have kept the race with Supes and Flash.

Superman flying instead of running ruined it for me

 

[CadeSkywalker28]

I would have kept the race with Supes and Flash.

Ugh.

 

[dhandler01]

I would love a series like that and to see Cavill doing For The Man Who Has Everything! It’s something that is probably too short for a movie but would make an excellent short film or episode of an anthology series.

I would love Cavill to get a HBO Max series or movie under another director tbh (I’d love him to get a big screen movie as well but I think that ship has sailed, at least unless he does Shazam/Black Adam).

And do you mean Loeb’s Superman/Batman? The only S/B: Supergirl arc I can think of is the one by Loeb/Turner just after Infinite Crisis. If I’ve missed one by Waid I’d love to track it down.

Yeah I mean Loeb. I was thinking about Waid in another conversation and flipped them.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Watched the first 2 hours again, this not only holds up for a repeat viewing, but like all Snyder’s movies it’s gets better upon a further viewing.

 

[Lantern Venom]

"Yalan Gur" apparently. I never heard of him. But I'm hardly an expert on Lanterns.

Yalan is a GL who went mad with power, similar to Sinestro. The GotU judged him, and made his ring vulnerable to wood. He was killed, and his essence fused with a part of the Starheart, which eventually became Alan Scott's Lantern.

It wouldn't surprise me if DC revisits or revises his connection to Alan in the near future. If you're curious, you can read his origin in Green Lantern #19 (vol 3). Martin Nodell, Alan's creator, contributed to the issue.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Superman flying instead of running ruined it for me

I mean I've seen it in comics and possibly in cartoons. That's why it felt "authentic" an I would have kept it. Because you know it would totally happen if they were real. All that dick measuring stuff that men have to do.

 

[TheGDBatman]

8/10

Everything about this movie clicked better. The action, the visuals, the dialogue, the score, etc. It felt way more in line with what I hoped for when the original movie was released, and delivered in spades. The third act was fantastic. And that Batman/Joker exchange was top notch.

I did have some disappointments though.

- The first one being that the stunt scene with Batman finding the parademon nest was never filmed (or at least not in the film). Would have loved to see that.
- The villager sniffing Aquaman's sweater while they over indulge in singing. At first I loved the idea of them singing as he swims off (makes him appear more godly/mythical) but the song ran a bit long for my liking.
- The over use of the chanting or whatever for Wonder Woman. Would have liked to see more of her original theme.
- Not as much Superman as I would have hoped for.

Overall, loved the movie. I'll be revisiting this a few times in the near future for sure!

 

[souvlaki]

WoW!! Glad this turned you around dude. This seems to be an ongoing trend im seeing. Just curious, as someone who did not like Snyder’s films before this what do you feel this movie had that pulled you in that the others didnt?

The miniseries format seems to work better for Snyder I think. By giving the movie a four hour run time, I think it gave him a chance to flesh out the story to where there were no glaring plot holes and everything made sense. I thought Snyder did a shockingly great job fleshing out the characters and adding a lot of good character moments that would have been lost in a 2 hour cut. He also did a good job of balancing the humor in this, which is something his films tend to lack. I think I'm just really burnt out on the Marvel way of handling humor, so it was refreshing watching a superhero film that handled humor in a more toned down, natural way instead of the standard quips every few seconds.

I dunno, it was just overall a pretty well made movie with a good balance of storyline, action, and humor and I never got the sense that things got overly boring, or that the runtime was undeserved. Also made me much more interested in his upcoming Netflix series as well, because he definitely seems to excel when he's given a longer run time to work with. Maybe he just needs to do tv work instead of movies, because he's clearly not good at editing his films down to a solid 2 hour movie (my opinion of course).

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

7/10 my favorite part was the two separate Mercedes advertisements in under 10 minutes. -_-

In all seriousness, it was much much better than the original (5.5/10). No CGI mustache brought it up half a point immediately. And for a 4 hour second attempt at a movie it was completely watchable. Which is saying something.

However it was still not great. One thing I would point out as a glaring issue is Darkseid is roundly defeated in his first appearance. *slow blink* super intimidating guy that Darkseid, how will our heroes ever overcome his might?

That being said, Steppenwolf seemed kinda cooler in this one, definitely more fleshed out. The motherbox story made more sense (even if it still seems just like a complete ripoff of the tesseract plot in Avengers 1)

The Joker scene... just felt very "wtf is happening?"

Anyway, all in all a significantly better experience. I'd watch a sequel now. /shrug

 

[souvlaki]

7/10 my favorite part was the two separate Mercedes advertisements in under 10 minutes. -_-

In all seriousness, it was much much better than the original (5.5/10). No CGI mustache brought it up half a point immediately. And for a 4 hour second attempt at a movie it was completely watchable. Which is saying something.

However it was still not great. One thing I would point out as a glaring issue is Darkseid is roundly defeated in his first appearance. *slow blink* super intimidating guy that Darkseid, how will our heroes ever overcome his might?

That being said, Steppenwolf seemed kinda cooler in this one, definitely more fleshed out. The motherbox story made more sense (even if it still seems just like a complete ripoff of the tesseract plot in Avengers 1)

The Joker scene... just felt very "wtf is happening?"

Anyway, all in all a significantly better experience. I'd watch a sequel now. /shrug

The Joker scene felt like an outtake to an Arkham game, which is probably my biggest issue with it. Pretty much everything in the epilogue felt like fan fiction.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

The Joker scene felt like an outtake to an Arkham game, which is probably my biggest issue with it. Pretty much everything in the epilogue felt like fan fiction.

I absolutely agree with regards to the Manhunter scene. CGI looked decent, and the acting choice works pretty well, but it still feels like fan fiction.

Everything down to Affleck's reaction, "oh okay. sounds good. glad to have you on the team."

*jackie chan meme*

 

[Tony Stark]

First off, I think this is really cool how this took place, and that the film is dedicated to his late daughter.

For the review, overall yes this is much better than the theatrical cut.


What I liked:

No. 1 thing has to be Cyborg. He was OK in the Whedon version (actually one of the few good parts to the Snyder version), but he really shines here. I loved how they displayed his power showing the pre-accident Victor in a virtual reality world of the Mother Box. Even though some of the CGI didn't hold up, I was forgiving because this surely had a limited budget for what they could do.

The Flash was handled better too. I hated what Whedon did to him. Overall I dislike the casting of Ezra Miller and this is really Wally West playing Barry Allen, he's at least taken a little more seriously in this version, and his backstory is further pursued and they threw out all the scenes of him acting like a chicken sh*t.

Loved the backstory with Darkseid. It was a nice setup to a potential sequel. I liked the design of Darkseid and I think they made him unique enough to stand out against Thanos, while the two share obvious similarities since Jim Starlin admittedly "stole" him from Darkseid being a huge Jack Kirby and New Gods fan. Luckily Marvel changed the motivations for Thanos, as being a radicalized proponent for sustainability in the universe. So Darkseid and the anti life equation feel much more original here. And his look stays pretty comic book accurate while straying from the photo realism look that Marvel went for Thanos. The lighting and effects are perfectly used so you don't question the lack of photorealism against the human actors.

The new color palette. This fits in much better with the previous Snyder films. It's clearly the spiritual successor to MOS and BvS. 2017 JL felt like a sharp left hand turn. I think it casts itself as a distinction from the Marvel films, where the 2017 JL felt like it was trying to copy the sucess of Marvel.

What I didn't like:

This isn't a "not like" but more of a caveat. No 4 hour film is ever going to be released in theaters. On the Misc. Comics thread, I mentioned Branagh's Hamlet as the only theatrical 4 hour film I could think of (and it had an intermission). But he was trying to adapt the full play of Hamlet on film. Something that had never been previously done. In some ways I can't compare this film to the other, because of it's length. No studio will ever allow that, and what we will never see is Zach Snyder's theatrical JL. Being able to sufficiently tell a story in a 2-3hr time constraint is something that is a requirement for every film maker. One of Snyder's biggest problems as a director is his ability to efficiently tell a story. He's great at some of the visual aspects of film making but it's often at the expense of the dialogue. Great film makers know how to handle both.

Drama is about conflict. Other than the standoff with Superman and Aquaman lifting Bruce early in the film, the "everybody gets along" aspect of the League didn't seem right. Drama is about conflict. The one thing I will say for Whedon, I like the way Whedon dealt with the dynamic of the team forming. In the Snyder cut there really are no internal conflicts with the team. It makes more sense that Bruce is the driving force behind bringing back Superman, since he felt tremendous guilt over his death. I also liked Bruce confronting Diana about Steve Trevor. For one thing it explains why she's been hiding out for all that time (bearing in mind this was done all before WW84).

Steppenwolf. I mean is this an improvement? The theatrical version is arguably the worst CBM villain on screen. The main thing is this version pales in comparison to the version Jack Kirby gave us. I don't like the alien horned Steppenwolf. As bad as the theatrical version was, at least it somewhat resembled his comic counterpart. I'm just not a fan of this version, even if it's what Snyder envisioned. The big problem is, he is just a weak villain in this and the Theatrical version. Yes, he has more clearly defined motivations in this one, but he is still weak. What is worse is that in this version he's given these strange puppy dog eyes that I think evoke the wrong reaction that is intended.

*side note and true story. I was watching this with my 14 yo son. We are at the end battle and Aquaman stabs Steppenwolf with his trident, and my son says "He should have gone for the head". I then see Wonder Woman leaping in with her sword and I say "wait for it". We were both dying laughing as the slo mo kill shot comes in.

I still don't particularly like Snyder's direction style. I'm not a fan of all the slow-mo shots. How many times do I have to watch 300 again? It's like the post Matrix overuse of bullet-time effects, or the post Black Hawk Down use of shaky cam.

I'm not a fan of the aspect ratio. I get he was doing this for IMAX. Wasn't a lot of criticism for Whedon's Avengers was over it looking too much like Television for it's narrower aspect ratio, so I don't get why having an apect ratio of a CRT TV, does much for a film. We're not watching this on an IMAX screen, so I don't get why watching a 4:3 AR, on our 16:9 flat panels does much with the viewing experience.

Still overall, this or something close to it, is what we should have gotten in 2017. Most of this I blame on the studio for rushing things through. It's sad to think what might have been, but does the renewed enthusiasm in this maybe bring things back on the table that we thought were dead? I mean this is certainly a shot in the arm after the massively disappointing WW84. And in a post covid world the expectations of massive box office draws for any film will certainly be tempered. But it will also force studios to work with smaller budgets which will be difficult for these big tent pole films. Who knows but I'm certainly glad Snyder was able to complete his film the way he wanted.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

The Flash was handled better too. I hated what Whedon did to him. Overall I dislike the casting of Ezra Miller and this is really Wally West playing Barry Allen, he's at least taken a little more seriously in this version, and his backstory is further pursued and they threw out all the scenes of him acting like a chicken sh*t.

I actually love Ezra Miller. Still hoping against hope there is a Flash film starring Miller. He is easily one of the standouts for me in this film. He even made the super weird (creepy?) scene where he brushes hair from a frozen/motionless Iris somewhat tolerable. He's just adorable and effortlessly charismatic.

 

[souvlaki]

I absolutely agree with regards to the Manhunter scene. CGI looked decent, and the acting choice works pretty well, but it still feels like fan fiction.

Everything down to Affleck's reaction, "oh okay. sounds good. glad to have you on the team."

*jackie chan meme*

I just laughed at the dialogue with MM giving his codename to Bruce. Basically boiled down to, "Don't worry about me. I'm one of the good guys. Btw, you can call me Space Alien Who Kills Humans".

 

[Iceman]

Yalan is a GL who went mad with power, similar to Sinestro. The GotU judged him, and made his ring vulnerable to wood. He was killed, and his essence fused with a part of the Starheart, which eventually became Alan Scott's Lantern.

It wouldn't surprise me if DC revisits or revises his connection to Alan in the near future. If you're curious, you can read his origin in Green Lantern #19 (vol 3). Martin Nodell, Alan's creator, contributed to the issue.

Nice knowledge

 

[Sorath]

I gave it 7/10/. The movie was good and it was a massive improvement on Batman v Superman and theatrical cut of Justice League. I hate Batman v Superman so much that it for me has tainted the DCEU. So I'm not exactly objective when it comes to DCEU or Snyder DC films.

I can only say that while I liked the film and felt it was worth watching at least once I did not walk away impress or felt it was some great epic movie. I think its about the same quality as Endgame it was good and that is about it.

It think the film didn't need to be four hours long and could have been cut down. There where scene that either dragged on to long or where just unnecessary to the film (thats my opinion any way). Was it good enough that I think they should give Snyder chance to do JL 2. Yes because seems to be enough people that want it. I could care less one way or another.

After WW84 I said Snyder Cut would be the final film for me and DCEU. I refuse to watch any more films because they put out more bad films then good ones. I'm tired of there being a whole string of terrible films and then we get one good one. The only way I can make my voice be heard that WB needs to step up there game is by not spending money and watching these films. That is position that I am taking. If more people did this then WB would be force to listen and step up there game.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I gave it 7/10/. The movie was good and it was a massive improvement on Batman v Superman and theatrical cut of Justice League. I hate Batman v Superman so much that it for me has tainted the DCEU. So I'm not exactly objective when it comes to DCEU or Snyder DC films.

I can only say that while I liked the film and felt it was worth watching at least once I did not walk away impress or felt it was some great epic movie. I think its about the same quality as Endgame it was good and that is about it.

It think the film didn't need to be four hours long and could have been cut down. There where scene that either dragged on to long or where just unnecessary to the film (thats my opinion any way). Was it good enough that I think they should give Snyder chance to do JL 2. Yes because seems to be enough people that want it. I could care less one way or another.

After WW84 I said Snyder Cut would be the final film for me and DCEU. I refuse to watch any more films because they put out more bad films then good ones. I'm tired of there being a whole string of terrible films and then we get one good one. The only way I can make my voice be heard that WB needs to step up there game is by not spending money and watching these films. That is position that I am taking. If more people did this then WB would be force to listen and step up there game.

Don't get me wrong, I agree. But people have already shown WB that we do not like these films. It shows in the Box Office, and their response is to make them even worse (see Suicide Squad recuts, Justice League recuts, etc)

I feel they will not learn their lesson by box office alone. Worst case they will trash the genre altogether.

They need a Feige. Hate to say it, but it's true.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Finished my 2nd viewing. And this will be my final one until the 4K version comes out. Cyborg and Steppenwolf stood out to me on first viewing as huge improvements over their theatrical versions. And that remains true, but on this viewing Aquaman and Flash stood out more for me. I liked the quiet moments they had and when **** hit the fan Flash was a lot more serious and not the bumbling buffoon he was in the TC. Hell he saves the damn day here!

Aquaman has a nice arc also as the most reluctant of the group who ends up caring just as much as the rest if not more. And I love that even though he gets bested in his fights here he always gets straight back up and throws himself into the fight.

I enjoyed the score more this time also and MM and the Knightmare didn’t seem a shame tacked on this time either. I still think Superman gets many of the best scenes in the 2nd half of the movie also.

 

[chintai80]

Finished my 2nd viewing. And this will be my final one until the 4K version comes out. Cyborg and Steppenwolf stood out to me on first viewing as huge improvements over their theatrical versions. And that remains true, but on this viewing Aquaman and Flash stood out more for me. I liked the quiet moments they had and when **** hit the fan Flash was a lot more serious and not the bumbling buffoon he was in the TC. Hell he saves the damn day here!

Aquaman has a nice arc also as the most reluctant of the group who ends up caring just as much as the rest if not more. And I love that even though he gets bested in his fights here he always gets straight back up and throws himself into the fight.

I enjoyed the score more this time also and MM and the Knightmare didn’t seem a shame tacked on this time either. I still think Superman gets many of the best scenes in the 2nd half of the movie also.

i loved in this version how they show aquaman can be a bit standoffish and even though he has this gruff exterior, he truly has a heart of gold.

also so glad they don't have the scene with him creeping on wonder woman. one of the many stupid whedon additions.

 

[Erik20]

I really liked it. Huge improvement over Whedon's version. I would rate it 7/10.

My only complaint is that there are some scenes that probably should've been cut. That scene with the women singing after Aquaman left just kept going and going... A lot of stuff with the Amazonians seemed unnecessary. Like those dramatic shots of dying warriors who we don't even know or care about. And those times when the movie stops and turns into a music video. (Aquaman walking towards the water in slowmotion)

 

[Madam-Shogun]

I gave it a solid 8.8, I think that's fair. I couldn't commit going any higher than that.