🇮🇷 The Iran Thread II

[SV Fan]

Iran poses a real threat to all those US military bases, just look how it's positioning itself in between all of them ready to attack

 

[8wid]

^But those bases have been there since the Cold War when the US feared the Soviet Union either might invade the oil rich Middle East, try to prevent communism from spreading into the newly formed governments like Syria and Iraq that were getting their independence from the British Empire, it's close to put nuclear bombers and missiles in to strike Russia itself and its former Soviet satellite states etc. It protects the flow of supplies between Europe, Africa, and Asia in case of a full scale war with the USSR.

Many of those bases have been added after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan to prevent the revolution in Iran from becoming a communist one, or Russian aggression from spreading. They are also there to keep Iraq at bay after the Gulf War and Iran too now in case it wants to move out. They also been put in for the current Iraq War, the war in Afghanistan, war in Yemen, war in Pakistan, war in Oman, war in Sudan and Somalia. It also protects the flow of oil and cargo from pirates and hostile regimes from any third world nation in the region.

The good thing is that this map is out of date because the US has no more bases in Iraq, American and NATO withdrawal plans not to have any remaining in Afghanistan after 2014. Iran is not really building a nuclear weapon despite the hype about it. The US can't afford to attack Iran which can block the Straits of Hormuz where the flow of oil goes, have them start a regional war with Israel, attack Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, or other oil producing nations directly etc. It would be economic suicide that would likely cause a second Great Depression if it lasted more than a few weeks.

These bases are essentially left over from decades of Cold War with the Soviet Union, fighting the Gulf War and revolutions in the Middle East, plus the modern war on Terror. It really reflects a past century of war tension and political turmoil. After the US leaves Afghanistan and has to really come to terms with its Federal deficit or risk default the will agree to cut defense and some of these bases will go with it. I wish I had an updated map to show you.

 

[8wid]

U.S. still believes Iran not on verge of nuclear weapon

Israel's nuclear capabilities

 

[8wid]

Iran earthquakes leave scores dead in Tabriz region

 

[8wid]

Israeli 'document' on Iran attack leaked

 

[Hobgoblin]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ordow-parchin-site-nuclear-enrichment-program

VIENNA (Reuters) - Iran has installed many more uranium enrichment machines in an underground bunker, diplomatic sources said on Thursday, potentially paving the way for a significant expansion of work the West fears is ultimately aimed at making nuclear bombs.

Iran denies allegations it is seeking a nuclear weapons capability. But its refusal to curb its nuclear enrichment program has prompted tough Western sanctions and has heightened speculation that Israel may attack its atomic sites.


In a possible sign of further Iranian defiance in the face of such pressure, several sources said Iran had put in place additional enrichment centrifuges in its Fordow facility, buried deep inside a mountain to protect it against enemy strikes.

One source suggested hundreds of machines had been installed.

In another development likely to worry the West, they said satellite imagery indicated Iran had covered a building at a military site which U.N. inspectors want to visit with a brightly-colored, tent-like structure.

Western diplomats have said they believe Iran is cleansing the Parchin site to remove any evidence of illicit nuclear activity at a place where the U.N. nuclear watchdog suspects it has conducted tests that had a military dimension.

Covering the building in question - which is believed to house a steel chamber for explosives experiments - may allow Iran to carry out sanitization or other work there which would not be seen via satellite pictures.

One Western envoy said that the suspected clean-up at Parchin was "intensifying" and that this made it doubtful that inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) would uncover any hard evidence there, even if they were allowed to go.

"Given the extent of the clean-up, it is indeed unlikely the agency, if it ever gets access, would find anything at Parchin," the diplomat said.

There was no immediate comment from Iran's mission to the Vienna-based U.N. atomic agency. It has previously dismissed the allegations about Parchin, which it says is a conventional military facility, as "ridiculous".

NEW NUCLEAR TALKS

The IAEA will press Iran again in talks on Friday for access to Parchin as part of its long-stalled probe into suspected nuclear weapons research in the Islamic state, even though it concedes that the alleged sanitization would hamper its probe.

The meeting, the first since previous discussions ended in failure in June, takes place after an upsurge in rhetoric from Israeli politicians this month suggesting Israel might attack Iran ahead of the U.S. presidential election in November.

The talks are separate from Tehran's negotiations with world powers that have made little headway since they resumed in April after a 15-month hiatus, but the focus on suspicions about Iran's nuclear ambitions mean they are closely linked.

 

[8wid]

Iran is not building nuclear weapons. They have the capability to enrich a lot more uranium than they are now, but it takes many many than they what they have currently going. That capability exists because Iran once feared invasion and nuclear attack from Saddam Hussein's Iraq, potentially Israel, and an irrational fear of aggression from the US after it labeled Iran as part of the Axis of Evil in 2001 and invaded its neighbors of Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[Kelly]

Well, I'm really glad that you have the inside track to Iran and their true motives.....I feel much better.... ; )

 

[8wid]

^Once NATO withdrawals from Afghanistan I guarantee that the rhetoric of this kind is going to drop down enormously. We may eventually see the US lift sanctions on Iran.

More warmongering from the BBC which assumes Iran is already in the process of weaponizing despite tons of evidence to the contrary. It doesn't even mention how close specifically Iran is to nuclear weapons and only cites that fact it has the potential to. So does Japan, South Korea, Israel, India, Pakistan, Myramar, etc if they ever felt threatened enough.

David Sanger on Iran's nuclear programme

 

[Hobgoblin]

^Once NATO withdrawals from Afghanistan I guarantee that the rhetoric of this kind is going to drop down enormously. We may eventually see the US lift sanctions on Iran.

More warmongering from the BBC which assumes Iran is already in the process of weaponizing despite tons of evidence to the contrary. It doesn't even mention how close specifically Iran is to nuclear weapons and only cites that fact it has the potential to. So does Japan, South Korea, Israel, India, Pakistan, Myramar, etc if they ever felt threatened enough.

David Sanger on Iran's nuclear programme

After 30+ years? What is your reasoning behind thinking that?

 

[8wid]

^Never mind in that case. The fact that Iran has been getting sanctions on itself that long proves there is no urgency in needing worry about rumors of nuclear weapons program being developed by Tehran because it's all just rhetoric.

 

[Hobgoblin]

So a country determined to gain nuclear technology wont find black market ways to make necessary purchases? And thre is a major difference between Ian and the other nations you mentioned: the Iranians support terrorism and have said repeatedly that Israel should not exist.

I know that apologists like to conveniently forget those facts. Not that I am positive that Iran will build nukes but it is at least a possibility that needs to be taken seriously.

 

[8wid]

^Fine, but if South Korea and Japan feel threatened enough by the North which has nuclear weapons they will build them to self-defense. Iran does support terrorism and buys some things on the black market already for its nuclear energy program. If they were accelerating through this their uranium enrichment would be detectable and at a higher concentration than it is now. If Iran was interested in attacking Israel why not just do it with a dirty bomb, biological agent, or something else? They can get a suitcase nuke from North Korea I'm sure.

 

[SV Fan]

^Fine, but if South Korea and Japan feel threatened enough by the North which has nuclear weapons they will build them to self-defense. Iran does support terrorism and buys some things on the black market already for its nuclear energy program. If they were accelerating through this their uranium enrichment would be detectable and at a higher concentration than it is now. If Iran was interested in attacking Israel why not just do it with a dirty bomb, biological agent, or something else? They can get a suitcase nuke from North Korea I'm sure.

Thing I don't get is how the hell does Iran threaten the US. Does anybody in the US believe Iran has the capability to launch a missile in Iran all the way to New York.

The sad thing about Iran is compared to some of countries in the middle east the people there are actually "more secular" then alot of radicals in other countries in that area that America has ties with. Going there and carpet bombing the area will only turn those people who have a chance to become great Pro-Americian Middle Easters into people who view America negatively. It sort of reminds me of Iraq, why go and bomb a country that for the most part hated Osama Bin Laden just as much as us, that's counter productive(expect for the military industrial complex)

 

[Kelly]

Thing I don't get is how the hell does Iran threaten the US. Does anybody in the US believe Iran has the capability to launch a missile in Iran all the way to New York.

The sad thing about Iran is compared to some of countries in the middle east the people there are actually "more secular" then alot of radicals in other countries in that area that America has ties with. Going there and carpet bombing the area will only turn those people who have a chance to become great Pro-Americian Middle Easters into people who view America negatively.

Iran threatens Israel (the only true American friend in that region), they control the Strait or Hormuz, and they are now showing major influence in Iraq....

So, as much as I am against military action against Iran, I understand the level of interest.

 

[SV Fan]

So, as much as I am against military action against Iran, I understand the level of interest.

I am of the belief you win more people(at least the hearts and minds) with diplomacy then war. Added bonus diplomacy is much cheaper

 

[Hobgoblin]

Thing I don't get is how the hell does Iran threaten the US. Does anybody in the US believe Iran has the capability to launch a missile in Iran all the way to New York.

The sad thing about Iran is compared to some of countries in the middle east the people there are actually "more secular" then alot of radicals in other countries in that area that America has ties with. Going there and carpet bombing the area will only turn those people who have a chance to become great Pro-Americian Middle Easters into people who view America negatively.

Iran doesnt threaten the U.S. Not with nukes anyway. They would most likely try to hurt us by sponsoring terrorist attacks or by cutting off the Straits of Hormuz, crippling our oil supply.

No Iranian missile could reach North America, true. Some could hit southern Europe but Iran has no reason to attack those countries. The missile fears are really Israel's.

The rallying around the Iranian regime in the event of an American or Israeli attack on the Iranian facilities is one of the big negatives against attacking. Let's face it, there is no good solution to this situation. The best we can hope for is that the Iranian nuke program is peaceful, but we can never know that for sure.

 

[SV Fan]

The rallying around the Iranian regime in the event of an American or Israeli attack on the Iranian facilities is one of the big negatives against attacking. Let's face it, there is no good solution to this situation. The best we can hope for is that the Iranian nuke program is peaceful, but we can never know that for sure.

Here is an idea take 50B of the 70B the government gave Israel and buy oil from Iran under the condition they do certain things. Money talks and it's a better bang for our bucks.

It's sort of sad that Obama giving 70B to Israel is not even commented on by the Republicans as wasteful spending, yet I can't go a day without hearing the name Solyndra(which is pennies on the dollar compared to that 70B)

 

[Kelly]

I think we should pull all aid being sent to the Middle East....let's try that....

 

[thegreyghost]

Thing I don't get is how the hell does Iran threaten the US. Does anybody in the US believe Iran has the capability to launch a missile in Iran all the way to New York.

The sad thing about Iran is compared to some of countries in the middle east the people there are actually "more secular" then alot of radicals in other countries in that area that America has ties with. Going there and carpet bombing the area will only turn those people who have a chance to become great Pro-Americian Middle Easters into people who view America negatively. It sort of reminds me of Iraq, why go and bomb a country that for the most part hated Osama Bin Laden just as much as us, that's counter productive(expect for the military industrial complex)

That's sort of what happened when the US invaded Iraq and why they didn't greet NATO and the Americans as liberators. The US had killed untold scores of combatants with families during the Gulf War, not to mention civilians. During several raids under the Clinton and Bush administration to remove the capability of Saddam from rearming his military. America's foreign policy has helped prop up the government in Saudi Arabia which has angered many including the 19 hijackers that crashed planes on 9/11.

As for being a threat to the US, Iran only has a missile capacity of maybe hitting a few hundred miles west of Israel itself unless it targeted American bases and interests in the area such as the Saudi oil fields, Straitz of Hormuz, or the NATO bases in Afghanistan the only threat it could pose to the mainland US is through sleeper cells and terrorist attacks which no nation has ever been able to pull off before successfully.

 

[SV Fan]

I think we should pull all aid being sent to the Middle East....let's try that....

Finally an issue we can agree on

Sadly this issue is the less of 2 evils when it comes to the 2 major parties.

 

[thegreyghost]

I think that all aid should be pulled. The US needs to stop worrying about if Israel is divided into two different states too. Americans for the most part probably don't even know why there are two Sudans now let alone care what happens to Israel.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Here is an idea take 50B of the 70B the government gave Israel and buy oil from Iran under the condition they do certain things. Money talks and it's a better bang for our bucks.

It's sort of sad that Obama giving 70B to Israel is not even commented on by the Republicans as wasteful spending, yet I can't go a day without hearing the name Solyndra(which is pennies on the dollar compared to that 70B)

Because there would be an uproar from Jewish and Evangelical groups about money being taken from Israel and given to Iran. Besides, how do we know that the Iranians will follow through on the conditions? What if we give them the money and they give us the finger?

 

[Marvolo]

Could Iran be trying to draw us into war to weaken our economy further and get at us that way?

 

[SV Fan]

Because there would be an uproar from Jewish and Evangelical groups about money being taken from Israel and given to Iran. Besides, how do we know that the Iranians will follow through on the conditions? What if we give them the money and they give us the finger?

I am not saying outright give them money. Offer them money for services(in this case Oil) under conditions certain issues are resolved. If you open up a trading partnership all of a sudden both countries will go out of their way to try keep eachother happy(or at least that is the goal you want).

To often it seems like the US uses it's economic power to bully smaller countries(see Cuba) like it's my way or the highway instead of using it's economic power to try create some diplomacy and a mutually beneficial relationship which could intern make them more open for other suggestions the US makes.

Maybe I am part hippy but I don't think going around and telling other countries that they are evil and acting like they are a plague on society, while trying to cripple them economically is the best way to make friends. As I said previously I do think the people who live in Iran are probably some of the most Pro-American Muslims in that area of the world that shouldn't be be treated like an afterthought just because you don't like the guy at the top and some of his policies.

Also I should add no money is being taken from Israel. The US is giving them a check for 70B, no strings attached.