The Iran Thread

[Midnyte_Sun]

You think it's premature to want to oust a regime that makes a daily habit of proclaiming their intent to destroy one of our greatest allies?

Like Saudi Arabian religious leaders? Like the Mullahs and warlords of Afghanistan which we support? That's a pretty lame excuse considering the 'friends' we have in that neighborhood.

Oh and which ally, the ally that routinely spies on us, the one ran by racist right wing ex military nut jobs that has powerful lobbyists on their American side that control the news and international policies for Americans, and constantly causes us to experience terrorism, kidnappings and beheadings in every energy-rich Middle Eastern state from Africa to Central Asia?

You think it's premature to want to oust a regime guilty of all the human rights violations the current regime has? You think it's premature to want to oust a regime that has no problem killing its own citizens when they disagree with them?

Which regime? The communist regime of China? The religious theocracy of Saudi Arabia? The dictatorship of Hosni Mubarak in Egypt? How are they any different?

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

My questions were yes and no answers...

Is it okay to turn a blind eye to their neighbor (Afghanistan) for creating laws that allow for marital rape and when women protest there they get pelted with stones?

Is it okay for Saudi Arabia to put political dissidents in solitary confinement for life for just opening a critical blog?

How about banning Blacks from donating blood because they're from Africa?

Is it okay to not talk about, and not even mention when an unstable Middle Eastern country attains nuclear weapons thanks to help from the US?

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

So you're saying that because the protests are less than what they were when we were definitely involved this proves we are still involved even though we are according to you giving more money to fund these protests?

I'm saying the Iranian people are fully capable of causing a revolution. We don't need to get hasty and get involved in that country. Let the Iranians develop their own government and policies. When the 'moderate' leader Mohammed Khatami was in power, he allowed reforms to take place, now because we invited him to the states and the European countries placed their favoritism he will never be allowed to influence the Iranian regime.

That doesn't strike you as contradictory in nature or sense?

What is contradictory is that we are very vocal when the Iranian regime cramps down on protestors yet silent when Saudi Arabia arrests EVERY protester and puts them in jail forever. We are vocal if a protestor is shot and killed yet silent when women are stoned in Afghanistan for protesting new laws allowing husbands to rape their wives.

While I'll agree we are supporting the dissident movements, this is a far cry from the shah's involvement and us. Iran, before our involvement was full of dissidence and protests so let's not say the US is the only cause of their current problems or strife. Isn't it possible, just possible, that this was brought on by people upset by a more and more oppressive regime?

Apparently not oppressive enough to cause mass grass roots revolution as they did in 1979. Back in 1979, Iran wasn't under any sanctions, and dogged by the UN for enriching Uranium. Back then, US policy makers were hoping Iran would become a nuclear nation. All this fuss about Iran having nuclear weapons and using them to attack Israel is bull*****.

Everybody knows that Israel and Palestine are connected, any attack on Israel would cause equal amount of trauma on the Palestinians, and other Arab countries in the region. Furthermore, Israel would attack back causing massive deaths in Iranian cities. There is NO benefit for nuclear weapons other than doing ONE THING: DEFENSE. Defending Iran from regime change.

That is the same fate Pakistan would have had if they didn't have nuclear weapons and what stopped the US from occupying Pakistan after 9/11.

 

[Paradyme]

US raises stakes on Iran by sending in ships and missiles

Tension between the US and Iran heightened dramatically today with the disclosure that Barack Obama is deploying a missile shield to protect American allies in the Gulf from attack by Tehran.

The US is dispatching Patriot defensive missiles to four countries – Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Kuwait – and keeping two ships in the Gulf capable of shooting down Iranian missiles. Washington is also helping Saudi Arabia develop a force to protect its oil installations.

American officials said the move is aimed at deterring an attack by Iran and reassuring Gulf states fearful that Tehran might react to sanctions by striking at US allies in the region. Washington is also seeking to discourage Israel from a strike against Iran by demonstrating that the US is prepared to contain any threat.

...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/31/iran-nuclear-us-missiles-gulf

Iran opposition leaders call for protests

Two top Iranian opposition leaders have called on supporters to protest on February 11, the anniversary of the 1979 Islamic Revolution, an opposition Web site reported.

According to The Green Way Web site, a meeting took place Saturday between opposition leaders Mehdi Karroubi and Mir Hossein Moussavi at Karroubi's home.

They discussed the two executions that happened last week and the cases of 16 protesters who went on trial Saturday, the site reported.

"The widespread arrests of political activists and university students, the silencing of the media, and the forced confessions of prisoners are against the principles of Islam and the constitution of Iran," the leaders said in a statement.

.....

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/01/31/iran.protests/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Not sure what's going on here but we only have to wait 10 more days to find out.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

US raises stakes on Iran by sending in ships and missiles

Looks like either US and/or Israel is planning missile strikes on Iranian energy targets sometime in the next 2 years.

 

[Paradyme]

Looks like either US and/or Israel is planning missile strikes on Iranian energy targets sometime in the next 2 years.

Or sooner. I think it'll all depend on what Iran unveils next week.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

How fast can they setup a missile defense system?

 

[Paradyme]

Who? Iran? I've heard we've already upgraded our missle defense shield around the area right now. I think there are quite a few naval vessels that have been moved there as well.

Iran Unveils New Satellite Capabilities on Eve of Revolution Anniversary

DUBAI—Iran test-fired a new satellite rocket and unveiled a series of what it said were home-grown advances in a space program that has worried Western officials because of possible cross-over applications in the country's weapons program.

In addition to the test-firing, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad unveiled on Wednesday three new telecommunications satellites and a new satellite-carrier engine, according to state media.

The test firing comes as the Islamic Republic celebrates its 31st anniversary. Commemorations began earlier this week and culminate on Feb. 11, the day in 1979 that the shah's forces capitulated during the Iranian revolution. During the same commemoration period last year, Iran launched its first domestically made and propelled satellite.

Tehran has long said its space program, like its nuclear program, is aimed at peaceful purposes. Wednesday's rocket carried a capsule of living organisms—a rat, two turtles and worms—into space for experimentation, the state-run English-language Press TV reported.

Iranian claims of technological advances, especially in weapons development, are often viewed skeptically by outside analysts. Still, the test-firing could raise fresh alarms about Iran's weapons development. Many of the same technologies used in satellite development can be applicable to missile-delivery systems.

...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...512362580720.html?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLEForthNews

 

[Marx]

IRAN CONTINUING TO ARREST DISSIDENTS?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/10/world/middleeast/10arrests.html?hp

 

[Marx]

According to the AP, the Iranian government has banned Google's gmail and is saying that it intends to replace it with a 'state run' email system.

 

[Kelly]

You're kidding???????......lol

 

[StorminNorman]

I call dibs on [email protected]

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

According to the AP, the Iranian government has banned Google's gmail and is saying that it intends to replace it with a 'state run' email system.

Why do people here seem surprised? China censors google, has hacked the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights advocates in the US, Europe and China; as well as those of people at Washington-based think tanks active in congressional policy debates about China.

In fact all our other oppressive allies (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan) have created state run, email services, and even YouTubes.

 

[Marx]

CLASHES HIT TEHRAN...AGAIN
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/02/11/iran.revolution.anniversary/index.html?hpt=T1

 

[Marx]

US REPORT: IRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM RESUMES
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/02/11/us.iran.nuclear/index.html

 

[Hobgoblin]

I like that its more "R than D" but any movement forward toward a bomb is a bad thing. Amy just keeps pushing our buttons.

 

[Raiden]

I like that its more "R than D" but any movement forward toward a bomb is a bad thing. Amy just keeps pushing our buttons.

I agree, but aside from sanction (since war is pretty much out of the question), what can the U.S. and its allies do against Iran?

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I like that its more "R than D" but any movement forward toward a bomb is a bad thing. Amy just keeps pushing our buttons.

I'll say this as someone who's helped in both non-weapon and weapon design in the past.


You don't develop one, and totally ignore the other. Ever.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I agree, but aside from sanction (since war is pretty much out of the question), what can the U.S. and its allies do against Iran?

Sadly, I dont know how else this will end except for an attack by Israel on the nuclear sites. There is absolutely no way they will let an enemy develop a nuclear weapon. They just cant afford it, despite the backlash against the strike. Damned if you do, damned if you dont. Except that Israel can survive another war with Hammas. They cant survive just one A-bomb.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Sadly, I dont know how else this will end except for an attack by Israel on the nuclear sites. There is absolutely no way they will let an enemy develop a nuclear weapon. They just cant afford it, despite the backlash against the strike. Damned if you do, damned if you dont. Except that Israel can survive another war with Hammas. They cant survive just one A-bomb.

Iran would never nuke Israel because of the close proximity to Palestinian territories and other Arab Shia neighbors, but also because of Israel's always heavy-handed response which could mean nuking of Iranian territories).

So what exactly is Israel and Western allied countries afraid of?

The real reason Israel and Western Powers are afraid of Iran is because its anti-Western policies and closer ties with Russia and China. Iran becoming a nuclear nation means that Iran's technological capability goes up, and it's cities prosper and the government is legitimized more in the eyes of the people. This (more than anything else) means Iran's greater influence in the region as a whole, something America and Europe cannot afford.

This can have a couple implications:

1. More support for groups who are fighting Israel.

2. More support and close relationship with Shia nations: Iran, Iraq, Azerbaijan, Bahrain (Some of which are giant Oil/Natural Gas producing nations)

3. More influence in regional politics of: Afghanistan, Pakistan, Caucasus.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I dont think Iran really cares about the Palestinians. Amy's whole philosophy revolves around the end of the world and the 13th Imam.

 

[StorminNorman]

No one in the Middle East cares about Palestinians, only the political points they bring. Middle Eastern countries are the reason for their current plight. If they had accepted the Palestinian people after the creation of Israel, there would be no Israeli-Palestinian problem today.

 

[Hobgoblin]

No one in the Middle East cares about Palestinians, only the political points they bring. Middle Eastern countries are the reason for their current plight. If they had accepted the Palestinian people after the creation of Israel, there would be no Israeli-Palestinian problem today.

They're actually hated in some countries. See the Syrian civil war between Syrians and Palestinian refugees. I know Kuwaiti's refer to Palestinians as dogs.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

I dont think Iran really cares about the Palestinians. Amy's whole philosophy revolves around the end of the world and the 13th Imam.

Right...and the US government support for Israel has to do with 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

 

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