2014 NFL thread: Down and Dirty - Part 1

[Spider-Fan]

The NFL is a pass/fail league. Denver didn't earn a moral victory. They earned a loss. Seattle is a better team, and Denver gave them their best shot for sure, but barely losing isn't a win of any sort.

 

[Matt Mortem]

I know the first two games came down to the last drive, but the defense holding their ground in both was a good sign. I think this team will come together a lot better then last year's.

I agree. I had a ton of high expectations for this game, and that last drive was pretty goddamn fantastic. Scored a TD and a two point conversion in less than a minute.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Well you are awesome. t:

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

The NFL is a pass/fail league. Denver didn't earn a moral victory. They earned a loss. Seattle is a better team, and Denver gave them their best shot for sure, but barely losing isn't a win of any sort.

If you have watched football long enough, you get to understand the nuances of the psychological edge which does exist. Yes, Seattle was able to win. However, Denver was able to match with them where they were unable in the Superbowl. Of course this is gonna give a confidence boost. If they had lost badly, there would have been no moral victory and positive outcome from their latest meeting.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

The NFL is a pass/fail league. Denver didn't earn a moral victory. They earned a loss. Seattle is a better team, and Denver gave them their best shot for sure, but barely losing isn't a win of any sort.

But what if you didn't care about the score, and wanted to go to distance and tell your girl you love her?

 

[W/ Great Power]

But what if you didn't care about the score, and wanted to go to distance and tell your girl you love her?

I want to save this post

 

[Spider-Fan]

If you have watched football long enough, you get to understand the nuances of the psychological edge which does exist. Yes, Seattle was able to win. However, Denver was able to match with them where they were unable in the Superbowl. Of course this is gonna give a confidence boost. If they had lost badly, there would have been no moral victory and positive outcome from their latest meeting.

I understand the psychological theory BEHIND the term moral victory, but at the end of the day, there is no such thing. We tend to forget just because Seattle beat them soundly last time that Denver is still an elite team. They have the talent to match anyone, they just had a poor gameplan. I had no doubts Denver would keep it close this time. They only got better in the off-season (well...mostly...their run game is worse).

The moral victory is a fabrication of fans and the media in order to provide storylines for teams as they progress throughout the year. Plenty of bad teams play well against a great team in a loss (aka, "moral victory") then go back to sucking. If moral victories existed, why did they suddenly suck again? On the opposite end, if a great team plays very poorly one game, why is it they can bounce back from it?

But what if you didn't care about the score, and wanted to go to distance and tell your girl you love her?

We're talking sports here

 

[Warhammer]

Matt, Rows, Vindrow, Spidey, and the rest of the Steelers fans here, get ready for a long night...

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I'm very aware of the reasons given for stating the term "moral victory" doesn't exist. There has always been a side that thinks it doesn't exist, and a side that thinks it does. When players are able to build confidence, they perform better. A blowout takes away confidence, and nerves will be greater in next match up. A game within grasp can be a moral victory in that there is now confidence that pushing harder, they could win next time.

Think about the Broncos wanting to be in the Superbowl again this year. What is the point if they don't feel they can defeat Seattle? (rhetorical)

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I understand the psychological theory BEHIND the term moral victory, but at the end of the day, there is no such thing. We tend to forget just because Seattle beat them soundly last time that Denver is still an elite team. They have the talent to match anyone, they just had a poor gameplan. I had no doubts Denver would keep it close this time. They only got better in the off-season (well...mostly...their run game is worse).

The moral victory is a fabrication of fans and the media in order to provide storylines for teams as they progress throughout the year. Plenty of bad teams play well against a great team in a loss (aka, "moral victory") then go back to sucking. If moral victories existed, why did they suddenly suck again? On the opposite end, if a great team plays very poorly one game, why is it they can bounce back from it?



We're talking sports here

Yeah! And Valentines Day was a holiday made by Hallmark in order to sell more cards and chocolates!

And Christianity was [BLACKOUT] [This remaining part has been blocked and redacted for legal purposes. Do not ask by who. You know we are.][/BLACKOUT]

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm very aware of the reasons given for stating the term "moral victory" doesn't exist. There has always been a side that thinks it doesn't exist, and a side that thinks it does. When players are able to build confidence, they perform better. A blowout takes away confidence, and nerves will be greater in next match up. A game within grasp can be a moral victory in that there is now confidence that pushing harder, they could win next time.

Think about the Broncos wanting to be in the Superbowl again this year. What is the point if they don't feel they can defeat Seattle? (rhetorical)

I don't think getting beat by them again by a lot proves they can't beat them. Throughout the year, were they to meet theoretically in the Super Bowl again after a 2nd blow out (had that happened) Denver would have confidence by making the game again, motivation for prior games, and lessons on what NOT to do against them. Confidence is important, yes. But, 1 bad loss doesn't destroy confidence, and 1 great performance in a loss doesn't necessarily boost confidence enough to matter. Confidence can be built any number of ways. Losing is losing, no matter by how much or how it happens. If moral victories existed, then my Browns get 10 of those a year!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The NFL is a pass/fail league. Denver didn't earn a moral victory. They earned a loss. Seattle is a better team, and Denver gave them their best shot for sure, but barely losing isn't a win of any sort.

They went up to Seattle and took it to OT. Seattle where good teams go to get crushed. If they got their asses kicked, they'd have no hope of getting back to the Super Bowl. Their soul would be crushed. I have a good feeling this game did more for the team then any other they have played since Peyton has been there.

I agree. I had a ton of high expectations for this game, and that last drive was pretty goddamn fantastic. Scored a TD and a two point conversion in less than a minute.

Yeah, I like what I saw.

 

[Spider-Fan]

They went up to Seattle and took it to OT. If they got their asses kicked, they'd have no hope of getting back to the Super Bowl. Their soul would be crushed. I have a good feeling this game did more for the team then any other they have played since Peyton has been there.


Yeah, I like what I saw.

I don't. I think beating Brady in the AFC Championship game did far more for Peyton and co than this one. Athletes are competitors, and don't like losing. I doubt Manning considers this a win.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't. I think beating Brady in the AFC Championship game did far more for Peyton and co than this one. Athletes are competitors, and don't like losing. I doubt Manning considers this a win.

Peyton has beaten Brady in the AFC Championship game before. Peyton's biggest problem against Brady is playing Brady up at Foxborough, because for some random reason Peyton is always seemingly playing up there.

Today wasn't a win, but that doesn't mean they didn't learn gain things today. There is a reason they say that sometimes you learn more from a loss then a win. Would they have preferred a win? Yes. But that isn't the end all, be all in September. For Godsake, no one wins in Seattle.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I also think that when you start looking at a game as a "moral victory" then you are admitting the team you're playing is better than you to the point where being "in the game" is not something you should be doing. Thus, you are sort of admitting you're not the best team. For someone like the Raiders or Browns, that is one thing. When you're an elite team, that is bad. That is how you lower expectations and begin a bad cycle.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Peyton has beaten Brady in the AFC Championship game before. Peyton's biggest problem against Brady is playing Brady up at Foxborough, because for some random reason Peyton is always seemingly playing up there.

Today wasn't a win, but that doesn't mean they didn't learn gain things today. There is a reason they say that sometimes you learn more from a loss then a win. Would they have preferred a win? Yes. But that isn't the end all, be all in September. For Godsake, no one wins in Seattle.

You DO learn more from a loss than a win. Losses show you what faults you have, while a win would make you more blind to them. So, that phrase has truth to it. But, learning more in a loss doesn't mean moral victories exist because the two ideas are very different. You should learn from ANY loss. Not just "moral victories."

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I also think that when you start looking at a game as a "moral victory" then you are admitting the team you're playing is better than you to the point where being "in the game" is not something you should be doing. Thus, you are sort of admitting you're not the best team. For someone like the Raiders or Browns, that is one thing. When you're an elite team, that is bad. That is how you lower expectations and begin a bad cycle.

You are slating this toward the negative, without considering the positives. Why does it have to be them thinking Seattle are better? What if this makes them feel like they can beat them? Especially if they aren't playing in Seattle's fortress?

The Broncos defense is improving and the offense is sorting itself out what transition. It is fracking September.

You DO learn more from a loss than a win. Losses show you what faults you have, while a win would make you more blind to them. So, that phrase has truth to it. But, learning more in a loss doesn't mean moral victories exist because the two ideas are very different. You should learn from ANY loss. Not just "moral victories."

You can't divorce the ideas from the actual situation. If the Super Bowl never happened, you would have a point. If Peyton hadn't had that last drive, you'd have a point. If the Broncos D wasn't clearly better then last year you'd have a point.

 

[Warhammer]

Y'all aren't even Denver or Seattle fans.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You are slating this toward the negative, without considering the positives. Why does it have to be them thinking Seattle are better? What if this makes them feel like they can beat them? Especially if they aren't playing in Seattle's fortress?

The Broncos defense is improving and the offense is sorting itself out what transition. It is fracking September.

Because elite teams KNOW they can beat a team. They don't have to prove it. True confidence doesn't need that type of proof. When you need to prove to yourself you able to beat someone, you are admitting they're better. Because you're questionning your own ability on a subconscious level. See the difference in psychology? Regardless if they beat you week 3, come the Super Bowl, the true confident team still knows they can win against the same team, regardless how the game in week 3 went. Confidence is built through wins, not losses. Losses help you highlight faults so you can work to fix them, this is true. But, a loss shouldn't be where you are gaining your confidence from. That is troubling. You should use a loss as a way to adjust strategy and find another way to attack your opponent later. No 2 games are ever the same. Remember, Seattle won't play you the same way again either.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Coaches use close losses as positive reinforcement motivation all the time. especially when concerning a team that should have blown you out of the water or did beat you badly last time. Knowing the superbowl outcome, this loss can make the Broncos feel they are ready.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Y'all aren't even Denver or Seattle fans.

Who is?

Few real fans these days of any team sadly. Seattle had few to none fans, and then overnight had a bunch of "fans" and Denver... well they have more fans cause of Peyton. Just like the Miami Heat had more fans from Lebron, who now will follow him to Cleveland

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Man that was a hell of a way to end the game with Denver and Seattle

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because elite teams KNOW they can beat a team. They don't have to prove it. True confidence doesn't need that type of proof. When you need to prove to yourself you able to beat someone, you are admitting they're better. Because you're questionning your own ability on a subconscious level. See the difference in psychology? Regardless if they beat you week 3, come the Super Bowl, the true confident team still knows they can win against the same team, regardless how the game in week 3 went. Confidence is built through wins, not losses. Losses help you highlight faults so you can work to fix them, this is true. But, a loss shouldn't be where you are gaining your confidence from. That is troubling. You should use a loss as a way to adjust strategy and find another way to attack your opponent later. No 2 games are ever the same. Remember, Seattle won't play you the same way again either.

And you are assuming the Broncos would play them the same as well. They played cautious early, and they will learn from that. They will learn from this. If anyone learns it is Peyton.

And there are no elite teams in the NFL. That is the era we live in. We haven't seen an elite NFL team outside of the 07 Pats since the mid 90s. These teams learns from these kind of games, just like how the Seahawks learned from their playoff trips before their Super Bowl victory.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

And you are assuming the Broncos would play them the same as well. They played cautious early, and they will learn from that. They will learn from this. If anyone learns it is Peyton.

And there are no elite teams in the NFL. That is the era we live in. We haven't seen an elite NFL team outside of the 07 Pats since the mid 90s. These teams learns from these kind of games, just like how the Seahawks learned from their playoff trips before their Super Bowl victory.

Agreed sir.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Y'all aren't even Denver or Seattle fans.

But I am most definitely a Peyton fan, so by default the Broncos are my "second" team, and my Colts had it easy today thankfully. Add the Texans falling apart, my NFL day went more good then bad.