The Dark Knight A Fan Analysis Of Every Component Of TDK.

[NEWAGE]

Ohh **** you ignodweep. Why was my joke in any way racist? The way I see it you're the racist. You brought their skin colour up and for what reason I fail to see.

I merely made a joke based on their ridiculous clothes and how they look and talk alike.

Now. Stop taking life so serious and get one.

Yeah, the first thing I thought too was KRISS KROSS when I saw them. They dress JUST like Kriss Kross and they talk JUST like two 14 year old kids from the hood in america.

yeah man, GREAT spot.


(for those of us who have a clue, they sound like they are from the UK, probably London, east or north. Most likely African or Carribean. Oh and their attire could not be more different from the over sized BACKWARDS facing clothes Kriss Kross wore. A guy in a T shirt and shorts, one in a dressing gown and one in a sports vest and tracksuit bottoms is ridiculous? Are you on dope? Or is it the mask that throws it into the ridiculous realm? Or the shades? Worse still, how does that combo have anything to do with ANYTHING kriss kross wore in their entire career? Hmmm it seems the only similarity to that rap group is uhhh....the colour of their skin? man you are an idiot. It is actually entertaining communicating with the likes of you)

 

[Soender]

Yeah, the first thing I thought too was KRISS KROSS when I saw them. They dress JUST like Kriss Kross and they talk JUST like two 14 year old kids from the hood in america.

yeah man, GREAT spot.


(for those of us who have a clue, they sound like they are from the UK, probably London, east or north. Most likely African or Carribean. Oh and their attire could not be more different from the over sized BACKWARDS facing clothes Kriss Kross wore. A guy in a T shirt and shorts, one in a dressing gown and one in a sports vest and tracksuit bottoms is ridiculous? Are you on dope? Hmmm it seems the only similarity is uhhh....the colour of their skin? man you are an idiot. It is actually entertaining communicating with the likes of you)

It's after bullshiat post like this, the Joker's "why so serious" fits perfect.

Besides. Don't you have a thread that needs to get back on topic or is trolling running too deep in your vains?

 

[Commodore Schmidlapp]

I think it's inherent in most people's nature to bring down anything considered to be good. Besides if you love the movie (as I do) you won't even worry what some self-important youtube d-bag has to say.

 

[Fenrir]

Who the F on this board has done anything like that for fandom and comics to then come out and call them half wits? What is telling is that NONE of these buffoons actually highlighted WHY what they said was dumb. What is it that they said that was stupid???? What??? Oh maybe you are just too damn dim to understand an in depth debate when you hear it or maybe too xenophobic to accept that two blackies have more sense and acumen on fandom and debate than you do. I really dunno, but its got to be one of those reasons.

OK, let's start with their dim-witted analysis of Batman in TDK and Batman Begins. More than half their drivel consisted of whining about how Batman wasn't scary and terrifying enough in Nolan's films, when it is quite the opposite. I mean, the docks and Arkham scenes in Begins alone is more than enough to prove that. Add in TDK's interrogation scene and his sonar plan and you can easily see how Batman is both scarier and more uncompromising than any film version of the character to date.

But what is their reasoning? "Bale's Batman just doesn't have that energy Michael Keaton had when he was on-screen".

Umm, pardon me for busting your balls, pal, but what exactly do you mean by "energy"? Define "energy". If you're going to try and attempt an "in-depth analysis" ( )of a subject, you might as well have more up your sleeve (and your brain) to throw more than vague, fancy vocabulary. Heck, one of them actually said he liked Burton's Returns more than both TDK and B89 as a Batman film. That of course, completely contradicts their basic criteria in comparing Batman films to their source material. And if that isn't being half-witted, then I don't know what is.

 

[Landfill]

you guys ever go over scenes in your head and realize heath plays different characters throughout the film? he ranges from intense to innocent in just a matter of minutes throughout the film. its pretty amazing if you ask me.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

OK, let's start with their dim-witted analysis of Batman in TDK and Batman Begins. More than half their drivel consisted of whining about how Batman wasn't scary and terrifying enough in Nolan's films, when it is quite the opposite. I mean, the docks and Arkham scenes in Begins alone is more than enough to prove that. Add in TDK's interrogation scene and his sonar plan and you can easily see how Batman is both scarier and more uncompromising than any film version of the character to date.

But what is their reasoning? "Bale's Batman just doesn't have that energy Michael Keaton had when he was on-screen".

Umm, pardon me for busting your balls, pal, but what exactly do you mean by "energy"? Define "energy". If you're going to try and attempt an "in-depth analysis" ( )of a subject, you might as well have more up your sleeve (and your brain) to throw more than vague, fancy vocabulary. Heck, one of them actually said he liked Burton's Returns more than both TDK and B89 as a Batman film. That of course, completely contradicts their basic criteria in comparing Batman films to their source material. And if that isn't being half-witted, then I don't know what is.

These are all opinions. They talked about what they would like to see. Besides, they loved the movie. There is nothing wrong with expressing your opinions and giving reasons for them.

 

[NEWAGE]

you guys ever go over scenes in your head and realize heath plays different characters throughout the film? he ranges from intense to innocent in just a matter of minutes throughout the film. its pretty amazing if you ask me.

yeah man, it was an amazing performance (sorry I have to ignore the morons from now on and just respond to posts like this).

It is interesting what you point out because he did cover a wide spectrum. I believe he got a lot of that from what Nolan wanted in a take off Alex De Large in a clockwork orange. That character did the same thing by covering anger, rage, violence, guilt, sensitivity, innocence etc.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Three Hours?

 

[Fenrir]

These are all opinions.

The fact that Batman was infinitely more "scary and terrifying" in Batman Begins than in B89 is simply not up for debate. Name me at least two scenes in B89 in which criminals were as terrified by the Batman as they were in the docks, Narrows and Arkham scenes in Begins.

Sure, they are entitled to their opinion but that doesn't mean the validity of their opinions cannot be questioned.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Those thugs in the alleyway at the beginning of B89 looked pretty freaked out to me. I don't remember any others.

 

[NEWAGE]

Those thugs in the alleyway at the beginning of B89 looked pretty freaked out to me. I don't remember any others.

yeah man good point. I remember the tv spot for Batman 89 very well. They ran that over and over when Keaton grabbed that guy and the man was quaking in his boots then keaton said 'i'm batman.' It was done so well that as a kid I was genuinely scared because batman just came out of nowhere in that building and it was so dark and ominous. Very gothic.

Also that bit when Batman fights the two sword guy in the street and kicks him in the face. Before he showed up there was some real tension. I think the thing is I really remember the impact of 89 because I was old enough to be affected by the hype and the eventual product. It isn't the same for people just looking at the film after the fact or in retrospect.

Even Nolan admits that his focus was reality and he rarely even talks about cranking up the fear factor. The argument that Keaton's batman as an aura was more intimidating than BB or TDK is a valid stance purely based on how Burton structured his films vs how Nolan did his.

That fight with the clowns and freakshow in Returns really summed up the pandemonium batman brought with him whenever he appeared on the scene.

 

[Fenrir]

Those thugs in the alleyway at the beginning of B89 looked pretty freaked out to me. I don't remember any others.

That's one compared to three in Begins. So which Batman were criminals more terrified of? The Joker's thugs certainly weren't afraid of him, and in fact, actually gave him a tough fight (especially the ones in the cathedral in the end). Compare that to Crane's thugs who were just pissing their pants out of fear whenever Batman was around.

 

[Fenrir]

Even Nolan admits that his focus was reality and he rarely even talks about cranking up the fear factor. The argument that Keaton's batman as an aura was more intimidating than BB or TDK is a valid stance purely based on how Burton structured his films vs how Nolan did his.

Yeah, perhaps it is because of that "aura" that the Joker's black goon was "quaking in his boots" when he confronted Batman in the climactic fight of the film. Oh wait, he didn't. He actually kicked the s**t out of Batman until Batman had to resort to cunning means to take him down. Even in the fight in the alley, the Joker's thugs weren't afraid to trade fisticuffs with Batman. Whereas in Begins, Crane's thugs were terrified of making a move at him even with weapons. So which Batman had the more "menacing aura"? No points for guessing the obvious answer here.

That fight with the clowns and freakshow in Returns really summed up the pandemonium batman brought with him whenever he appeared on the scene.

And how is Nolan's Batman any different?

 

[Crook]

B89 alluded to Batman's scare factor through stories and his reputation in the media. The thugs on the rooftop were sharing a story that was being passed around amongst the criminal underworld. Eckhart remarks that the "Batman" is a figment of the imaginations of crooks. Even Jack yells "Jesus!" when he first sees Bats face-to-face.

So yes, it all boils down to opinion on which is scarier. In the context of both films, they obviously are a threat. The only "fact" here is BB explored on the character's exploitation of fear much more, while it was only touched upon in brief moments for B89.

 

[I Am The Knight]

That's one compared to three in Begins. So which Batman were criminals more terrified of? The Joker's thugs certainly weren't afraid of him, and in fact, actually gave him a tough fight (especially the ones in the cathedral in the end). Compare that to Crane's thugs who were just pissing their pants out of fear whenever Batman was around.

Yes. I don't disagree with you. That's why I prefer BB's fights to TDK's, by the way. Batman just grabs that guy in Arkham and pulls him into the darkness, never to be seen again

But since you asked for "one or two" scenes in wich criminals were scared of Batman in B89...

 

[Fenrir]

B89 alluded to Batman's scare factor through stories and his reputation in the media. The thugs on the rooftop were sharing a story that was being passed around amongst the criminal underworld. Eckhart remarks that the "Batman" is a figment of the imaginations of crooks. Even Jack yells "Jesus!" when he first sees Bats face-to-face.

So yes, it all boils down to opinion on which is scarier. In the context of both films, they obviously are a threat. The only "fact" here is BB explored on the character's exploitation of fear much more, while it was only touched upon in brief moments for B89.

And Begins didn't?

"They say it was one guy...or a creature"
"The things they say about him. Can he really fly?"
"I heard he can disappear"

And Jack's "Jesus" is equivalent to Crane's fear of Batman when he realizes that Batman was still alive even after being gassed with his fear toxin and set on fire. It wasn't just stories that freaked criminals out at the mere mention of Batman in Begins. It's the way he stalked criminals in a fight, appeared and disappeared in the shadows without a trace, snatching away their comrades, used distractions and misdirection to unnerve his opponents into thinking he was in many different places at once.

Like I said, Batman's scare factor in Begins was all that was in B89 and much more. And it's something that is hardly up for debate.

 

[NEWAGE]

B89 alluded to Batman's scare factor through stories and his reputation in the media. The thugs on the rooftop were sharing a story that was being passed around amongst the criminal underworld. Eckhart remarks that the "Batman" is a figment of the imaginations of crooks. Even Jack yells "Jesus!" when he first sees Bats face-to-face.

So yes, it all boils down to opinion on which is scarier. In the context of both films, they obviously are a threat. The only "fact" here is BB explored on the character's exploitation of fear much more, while it was only touched upon in brief moments for B89.

At the end of the day dude, like the guys in the analysis say, it is about a feeling. How did you feel about each batman? Now this will vary from audience to audience, but for me, batman 89 was more threatening because of Burton's style of direction and imagery. He focused far more on batman and less on bruce wayne so that even as viewers we felt less connected to wayne than we did to batman. This meant that the mystery of batman was kept intact, and thus added to the fear of him.

The way Nolan's films could have circumvented this is by making Wayne far more unhinged and filter that into the batman fights (which were still not as ferocious as in Burton's movies in my opinion). The shaky cam and not seeing what is going on bothers me, though I know why Nolan does it. To me it doesn't succeed. I do not feel this fury from batman, I just get confused by the cuts and sweeps of fabric where I can't really make out what is going on.

Again, it is just how you feel. Batman 89 and Burton's stuff was far from perfect, but his batman was on the track that I prefer for that particular characterisation of fear. This is not to say Nolan's style of batman isn't great. It is.

 

[Fenrir]

But since you asked for "one or two" scenes in wich criminals were scared of Batman in B89...

I asked for "at least two scenes" and Crook beat me at it.

But even then, those two scenes are minor and aren't enough to argue that Batman in B89 was scarier than in Begins. ESPECIALLY when you include all the scenes in which even hired goons WEREN'T afraid of the B89 Batman.

 

[Crook]

And Begins didn't?

"They say it was one guy...or a creature"
"The things they say about him. Can he really fly?"
"I heard he can disappear"

Did I say it didn't? I was referring to B89 only because you were asking about it.

And Jack's "Jesus" is equivalent to Crane's fear of Batman when he realizes that Batman was still alive even after being gassed with his fear toxin and set on fire. It wasn't just stories that freaked criminals out at the mere mention of Batman in Begins. It's the way he stalked criminals in a fight, appeared and disappeared in the shadows without a trace, snatching away their comrades, used distractions and misdirection to unnerve his opponents into thinking he was in many different places at once.

Like I said, Batman's scare factor in Begins was all that was in B89 and much, much more. And it's something that is hardly up for debate.

As I've said, BB explored it and featured it more than B89. You can't really compare the two precisely though because the time period in which Batman was in, in Burton's film, had him with a set status amongst the city already. Whereas BB had the luxury of showing "first reactions" to this new guy dressed like a bat.

But back to where this argument originated, it's best to compare B89 with TDK as they seemingly both take place around the same time Batman has established himself.

 

[Landfill]

yeah man, it was an amazing performance (sorry I have to ignore the morons from now on and just respond to posts like this).

It is interesting what you point out because he did cover a wide spectrum. I believe he got a lot of that from what Nolan wanted in a take off Alex De Large in a clockwork orange. That character did the same thing by covering anger, rage, violence, guilt, sensitivity, innocence etc.

i havent had a chance to see a clockwork orange but i hear it did inspire heath some. but yeah its great just going over scenes in the movie and enjoying heaths great performance. what did you guys think about his laugh?

 

[I Am The Knight]

I asked for "at least two scenes" and Crook beat me at it.

But even then, those two scenes are minor and aren't enough to argue that Batman in B89 was scarier than in Begins. ESPECIALLY when you include all the scenes in which even hired goons WEREN'T afraid of the B89 Batman.

And who's arguing that with you?

 

[Va3H]

I like this, especially what they said about SM2 (which I hate). Very nice Job!

 

[Fenrir]

And who's arguing that with you?

Umm, the threadmaker and the "half-wits" in the Youtube videos?

 

[Fenrir]

You know, it's funny that the thread titled "A Fan analysis of Every Component of TDK" suggesting that the assessments featured therein are based on at least some sort of quantifiable, verifiable criteria rather than vague, subjective notions like personal feelings. That's the equivalent of writing an "analysis" on Machiavelli's Prince that simply says "you know, it wasn't that good because I felt he was an a**hole".

 

[NEWAGE]

I like this, especially what they said about SM2 (which I hate). Very nice Job!

Yeah man it's cool to hear fans dissect the movie in this way. Really shows batman fans aren't just sitting and watching batman films without really engaging with them. The response to the vdeos too show that many find as much depth in the whole batman/tdk film as they do. It's good that you can also jump to specific areas of the debate and not have to wade through all of it at once. The points made on SM2 were on the mark. However I think a lot of people really hated that film for the same reasons (more so 3).

Did you watch the TDK videos as well? The superman returns ones are particularly funny and true.