After 28 yrs in prison, man can't handle world of cellphones & computers

[Darthphere]

Here's what it boils down to me. You want to put in job programs and let them get college degrees and all that other rehabilitation nonsense, go for it. I'm not against rehabilitation, not at all but at the same time lets not get things twisted. You're in prison because you made a bad choice and you're being punished for it. It's supposed to be hard. It's supposed to suck. It's kind of the point. Like when you were a kid and you got grounded with no tv or dessert for a week, same concept only expanded. Complaining that prison made it hard for your life comes down to the choice you made that sent you to prison in the first place. Just because you did your time doesn't mean everything goes back to normal right away.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Not getting dessert usually doesn't lead to mental problems. Hard science points to the condition these guys are in when they come out. If you plan on letting them rejoin society at the end of this punishment then it's self defeating to insure that they are ****ed up when they come out.

 

[The Question]

Because we're not designed to be a high population animal. We're made for small hunter/gatherer tribes, not billion people nations.

What does that mean?

And in any event, if we can find a way to make our current population size work for us through technology, then what's the problem?

Here's what it boils down to me. You want to put in job programs and let them get college degrees and all that other rehabilitation nonsense, go for it. I'm not against rehabilitation, not at all but at the same time lets not get things twisted. You're in prison because you made a bad choice and you're being punished for it. It's supposed to be hard. It's supposed to suck. It's kind of the point. Like when you were a kid and you got grounded with no tv or dessert for a week, same concept only expanded. Complaining that prison made it hard for your life comes down to the choice you made that sent you to prison in the first place. Just because you did your time doesn't mean everything goes back to normal right away.

But if taking that attitude toward prisons results in a higher reoffense rate, is it worth it?

You are right, people are responsible for their own choices. But people are also influenced by their environment. A person is much more likely to become a gangbanger groing up in the projects than they are growing up in the suburbs. Ultimately the choice is still theirs, but the problem is that the government can't influence the individual's level of willpower and sense of personal responsibility. The people with weak wills and morals will be less likely to offend or reoffend in a better environment. It would be nice if everybody could just take responsibility for their actions but the government can't make that happen and can't just expect that to happen if they actually want to lower the crime rate.

If making prison less hard and less sucky (besides the inherent suck of having your freedom stripped away) will lower the crime rate, as statistics from countries like Norway and the UK suggest, then I see no good reason not to do it.

 

[Darthphere]

Not getting dessert usually doesn't lead to mental problems. Hard science points to the condition these guys are in when they come out. If you plan on letting them rejoin society at the end of this punishment then it's self defeating to insure that they are ****ed up when they come out.

Says you.

Again, I'm not against rehabilitation, believe it or not I'm for it. I rather someone hit the books on the inside then lift weights and learn how to make shanks out of mattress springs.

 

[The Question]

Says you.

Again, I'm not against rehabilitation, believe it or not I'm for it. I rather someone hit the books on the inside then lift weights and learn how to make shanks out of mattress springs.

Then what are you against, exactly?

 

[Franklin Richards]

Welcome to Crime Camp. I'm your counselor, Big Pookie. I'll let you settle in and then we'll go to lunch. After that we've got a great afternoon planned. We'll be lifting weights. Making bombs out of common kitchen items. And then you get to toss my salad.

 

[BlackLantern]

Then what are you against, exactly?

rapists and thieves getting a better opportunity for "a better life" than the average citizen

 

[Darthphere]

Then what are you against, exactly?

I'm against the notion of making going to prison easy. I don't want prison to be a place where people want to go. I mean we already have prisons with flat screens and PS3s and all this other nonsense, it's ridiculous to me. There has to be some level of punishment for going to prison. It shouldn't be "Hi welcome to prison, sign up to get a degree over here" like if it's the first day of college or something. I don't know maybe I'm having a hard time explaining what I'm thinking but I'm not someone who can't be reasonable or listen to other viewpoints.

 

[Franklin Richards]

rapists and thieves getting a better opportunity for "a better life" than the average citizen

Those quotes are HUGE.

 

[The Question]

I'm against the notion of making going to prison easy. I don't want prison to be a place where people want to go. I mean we already have prisons with flat screens and PS3s and all this other nonsense, it's ridiculous to me. There has to be some level of punishment for going to prison. It shouldn't be "Hi welcome to prison, sign up to get a degree over here" like if it's the first day of college or something. I don't know maybe I'm having a hard time explaining what I'm thinking but I'm not someone who can't be reasonable or listen to other viewpoints.

I pose a question: If making prison easy lowers the crime rate, what reason is there to be against it?

rapists and thieves getting a better opportunity for "a better life" than the average citizen

Same question.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I'm against the notion of making going to prison easy. I don't want prison to be a place where people want to go. I mean we already have prisons with flat screens and PS3s and all this other nonsense, it's ridiculous to me. There has to be some level of punishment for going to prison. It shouldn't be "Hi welcome to prison, sign up to get a degree over here" like if it's the first day of college or something. I don't know maybe I'm having a hard time explaining what I'm thinking but I'm not someone who can't be reasonable or listen to other viewpoints.

One. Stop saying flatscreens. It's a TV. They are all flatscreens. And B. You've obviously never had your freedom taken away from you before. Because if you had you'd realize how much it ****s with you. Every ounce of pride or self worth or accomplishment goes out the window when a jerk tells you where and when to take a piss.

Now is this a proper punishment? Sure. But for ****'s sake STOP equating it to a "better life".

Cause it's not.

 

[The Question]

One. Stop saying flatscreens. It's a TV. They are all flatscreens. And B. You've obviously never had your freedom taken away from you before. Because if you had you'd realize how much it ****s with you. Every ounce of pride or self worth or accomplishment goes out the window when a jerk tells you where and when to take a piss.

Now is this a proper punishment? Sure. But for ****'s sake STOP equating it to a "better life".

Cause it's not.

Of course he's had his freedom taken away before. I'm sure he went to school.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I ruled my school.

 

[BlackLantern]

I pose a question: If making prison easy lowers the crime rate, what reason is there to be against it?



Same question.

prison should NOT be easy....punishments should be harsher IMO

I say go back to hangings on the courthouse lawn......a rapist should not have access to a college degree or trade school when John Q Citizen has to work two jobs just to make ends meet and can't afford tuition to finish college

 

[The Question]

I ruled my school.

A constructed social hiarchy below the true overlords to serve as bread and circuses for the masses.

 

[Darthphere]

One. Stop saying flatscreens. It's a TV. They are all flatscreens. And B. You've obviously never had your freedom taken away from you before. Because if you had you'd realize how much it ****s with you. Every ounce of pride or self worth or accomplishment goes out the window when a jerk tells you where and when to take a piss.

Now is this a proper punishment? Sure. But for ****'s sake STOP equating it to a "better life".

Cause it's not.

First, I never said better life, that was Blantern.

Second, believe it or not non flat screen tv's still exist, a lot of them are in prisons or your ****** job's break room.

Thirdly, yeah I've never had my freedom taken away from me, I'm curious though, have you? Because you seem to be talking from experience now.

 

[The Question]

prison should NOT be easy....punishments should be harsher IMO

I say go back to hangings on the courthouse lawn......a rapist should not have access to a college degree or trade school when John Q Citizen has to work two jobs just to make ends meet and can't afford tuition to finish college

Why?

Also, you did not answer my question: If doing this reduces crime, what is the harm?

 

[The Question]

Second, believe it or not non flat screen tv's still exist, a lot of them are in prisons or your ****** job's break room.

I think Franklin's point is that even the ****tiest TVs now are flatscreen, so saying a TV is flatscreen isn't an indicator of it's quality or expense.

Thirdly, yeah I've never had my freedom taken away from me, I'm curious though, have you? Because you seem to be talking from experience now.

I still think school totes counts.

 

[Darthphere]

I pose a question: If making prison easy lowers the crime rate, what reason is there to be against it?



Same question.

Because you're making prison easy, it shouldn't be easy. It shouldn't become a trip to summer camp. Your logic is saying the only way to lower the crime rate is to make prison easy. There has to be more than one option.

 

[Darthphere]

I think Franklin's point is that even the ****tiest TVs now are flatscreen, so saying a TV is flatscreen isn't an indicator of it's quality or expense.



I still think school totes counts.

LCD HD TV then? Would that make everyone happy? (Plasmas suck)

I mean, you get to go home at the end of the school day so...

 

[The Question]

Because you're making prison easy, it shouldn't be easy. It shouldn't become a trip to summer camp. Your logic is saying the only way to lower the crime rate is to make prison easy. There has to be more than one option.

Why shouldn't it be easy? If making it easy achieves the goal of less crime then why is it a bad choice?

Also, what are the other options? Right now, I'm simply looking at other first world countries with significantly lower crime rates and looking at how they do it, because that's the only verifiable way of figuring out how to fix our system. If there's another way, please elaborate.

LCD HD TV then? Would that make everyone happy? (Plasmas suck)

Okay.

Do prisons even have those?

I mean, you get to go home at the end of the school day so...

But you still have to go back. And while you're home you still have to do school work. There's still an inherent lack of freedom.

 

[BlackLantern]

Why?

Also, you did not answer my question: If doing this reduces crime, what is the harm?

Europeans have a different culture....that tree hugging everyone deserves a second chance s*** might work over there

it won't work here in the US....we are nation built on crime and punishment and guilt......you f*** up, you become a pariah, and no one wants anything to do with you

you're not going to find a job, well a good one anyway, and no one is going to associate with you

why, on every job application, do they ask if you've been convicted of a crime? it's basically, as you said, institutionalized segregation....if you don't disclose that you have been convicted and they find out, they will can you....if you say yes, management doesn't want a dirty convict working for them

a few years ago I worked in a call center for an e-commerce company.....not highly skilled work and pretty much anyone who applied got hired....a girl got hired, HR later found out she served 2 months for a domestic violence call....didn't disclose it and was cut loose that very day in the middle of her shift

 

[Franklin Richards]

First, I never said better life, that was Blantern.

Second, believe it or not non flat screen tv's still exist, a lot of them are in prisons or your ****** job's break room.

Thirdly, yeah I've never had my freedom taken away from me, I'm curious though, have you? Because you seem to be talking from experience now.

I spent 11 days in county. Worst stretch in my life, man. My worst fears brought to life. It sucked.

No amount of PS3 or watching Maury will sedate you from where you are. Time moves slow. You mentally torture yourself the whole time. What could I have done? What am I gonna do? Who do I gotta watch out for today? Why am I here with violent offenders when my worst crime was failing to file paperwork and having under two ounces of pot.

The punishment should fit the crime. I'm not sure if that was the case in my story but I'm pretty sure there are worse mistakes being made.

But to my original point. It's not easy.

 

[The Question]

Europeans have a different culture....that tree hugging everyone deserves a second chance s*** might work over there

it won't work here in the US....we are nation built on crime and punishment and guilt......you f*** up, you become a pariah, and no one wants anything to do with you

you're not going to find a job, well a good one anyway, and no one is going to associate with you

why, on every job application, do they ask if you've been convicted of a crime? it's basically, as you said, institutionalized segregation....if you don't disclose that you have been convicted and they find out, they will can you....if you say yes, management doesn't want a dirty convict working for them

a few years ago I worked in a call center for an e-commerce company.....not highly skilled work and pretty much anyone who applied got hired....a girl got hired, HR later found out she served 2 months for a domestic violence call....didn't disclose it and was cut loose that very day in the middle of her shift

Why does any of that mean changing the inside of the prisons wouldn't have a positive impact?

A large part of that cultural attitude comes from the fact that convicts are highly likely to reoffend, which is a direct result of the fact that prison is basically an emotionally abusive crime trade school. If we make that stop, it might positively effect the outside culture.

Even if it doesn't, we still don't want our prisons to be an emotionally abusive crime rade school because that causes problems by itself.

Also, legislation could help eliviate that problem in other ways. We could pass laws making it illegal to put questions like that on application forms.

 

[Darthphere]

I spent 11 days in county. Worst stretch in my life, man. My worst fears brought to life. It sucked.

No amount of PS3 or watching Maury will sedate you from where you are. Time moves slow. You mentally torture yourself the whole time. What could I have done? What am I gonna do? Who do I gotta watch out for today? Why am I here with violent offenders when my worst crime was failing to file paperwork and having under two ounces of pot.

The punishment should fit the crime. I'm not sure if that was the case in my story but I'm pretty sure there are worse mistakes being made.

But to my original point. It's not easy.

Sorry to hear that but again, you made that choice to be carrying pot on you and you knew what the consequences could be. I think your punishment was excessive but again it comes down to choice.

I will agree though that prisons need to be reformed. There's no reason why someone who beat someone almost to death should be sharing a cell with someone who stole a TV. That's never made sense to me. Put the violent crime people in one area and the lesser offenders drug dealers, thieves, etc in another.