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After 28 yrs in prison, man can't handle world of cellphones & computers

Not that it can be compared to murder(which this guy was likely put in prison for) but here where I live, you can get up to 15 years in jail for growing weed. I'm sure a number of you are familiar with marijuana. I'm sure a number of you use torrents. I'm sure a number of you had got drunk before you were of the legal age. I'm sure you've all done something illegal in the past week. I went on the skytrain and didn't pay today. I've been in a fist fight before with some jackass from when I was in school. There are countless crimes people commit on a daily basis. Again, not saying it can be compared to murder, just don't act like you've never committed a crime before.

That's not even the point. First, all of those things are avoidable. You don't have to get into a fist fight, you don't have to grow weed, you don't have to use torrents. It's irrelevant to the discussion though. If you get caught, you're going to prison. Don't cry that life is hard after you get out because you decided to do something that was illegal. And don't give me any of that spur of the moment garbage either, cooler heads prevail as they say.
 
That's not even the point. First, all of those things are avoidable. You don't have to get into a fist fight, you don't have to grow weed, you don't have to use torrents. It's irrelevant to the discussion though. If you get caught, you're going to prison. Don't cry that life is hard after you get out because you decided to do something that was illegal. And don't give me any of that spur of the moment garbage either, cooler heads prevail as they say.

You've never done anything illegal eh?

Neither have I. :cwink:


Btw, I'm not "crying that life is hard after you get out because you decided to do something that was illegal", at all, by any means. I'm saying that you should get the **** off that high horse of yours.
 
because the culture is different....I do agree with you, mostly...but we need to determine who can be rehabilitated and who can't be

So we really? If we have a system that focuses on punishment, then the people who can be rehabilitated suffer right alongside the people who can't which ultimately makes things worse instead of better.

If we have a system that focuses on rehabilitation, then the people who can be rehabilitated are and the people who can't just stay in prison. I don't really see the problem with that.

and sadly, or not, depending on your POV.....the culture in Europe have a very different view of those who go to prison...over here, you're basically a leper once you have gone to prison and come out

I think that the only thing we can do to change that is shift the prison system's focus to rehabilitation. It won't change the culture over night, but if we remove the idea that prison is a place where bad people go to be punished and when they get out they're not being punished anymore, it can only help.
 
I think that the only thing we can do to change that is shift the prison system's focus to rehabilitation. It won't change the culture over night, but if we remove the idea that prison is a place where bad people go to be punished and when they get out they're not being punished anymore, it can only help.

I don't see that happening.....we're total a-holes, we're always looking for ways to consider ourselves "better" than others

Prisoners, convicts, and such are the ultimate scapegoat for that.....
 
I don't see that happening.....we're total a-holes, we're always looking for ways to consider ourselves "better" than others

Prisoners, convicts, and such are the ultimate scapegoat for that.....

So were black people, communists, and homosexuals. Not that those groups don't face descrimination today, but things are better. Social change is possible.
 
Everyone listen to the Question, he knows his stuff. he has a grasp on how the human mind works, and hes got an open mind. if more people thought like him, there'd be less criminals in the world
 
things are only better (at least for black people) because the govt intervened and legislated

I can only speak for my part of the country or state, but I'd gather most people would prefer segregation....keeps us darkies "in our place"

we don't treat others equally by nature, we only do it when we're forced to and then we tolerate it
 
Darthphere should change his profile picture to this

not-listening.jpg
 
things are only better (at least for black people) because the govt intervened and legislated

I can only speak for my part of the country or state, but I'd gather most people would prefer segregation....keeps us darkies "in our place"

But what I'm advocating is government intervention and legislation.

As for your experience, I am very sorry you have to go through that and yes it does varry from region to region, but even though racism is still very much alive in America it is much better than it used to be, in part because of government legislation forcing the issue and, over time, making bigoted views less popular and social acceptable (at least blatantly advertised bigoted views). Racism is still a very serious issue but things are slightly better over all. I think similar results might come about if the government intervened with the prison system.

we don't treat others equally by nature, we only do it when we're forced to and then we tolerate it

Actually, you'll find the opposite is true. By nature human beings do treat each other equally. In hunter gatherer tribes, which is the natural state from which out society developed, everyone has equal rights under the tribe's loosely defined laws. Homosexuality is accepted, women often hold places of authority, and nobody cares much about other races. Not to say that there isn't violence, rape, war, or socially deviant behavior, because there is, but anthropologists and psychologists find that widespread culturally accepted bigotry really comes about when there are significant economic gaps between groups of people, something that only comes about with the advent of agriculture, as it creates a greater "us VS. them" mentality and anything that is different (racial minorities, athiests, homosexuals, women) make a good "them" to exclude for the sake of your own economic prosperity. As that knee jerk survival mechanism because ingrained in the culture you get institutionalized bigotry.
 

Deciding who does and does not "deserve" rehabilitation seems, to me, to be largely arbitrary and based on emotional reactions to crimes. This isn't how a prison system should be run.

Having a prison system that focuses on rehabilitation has statistically proven lower reoffense rates. If it results in less crime over all I honestly don't care if anyone deserves it or not.
 
Speaking honestly, I don't give a crap about rehabilitation. I personally feel that messing with who someone is is the worst thing possible, even if that person is a terrible one. Best to just lock them up and keep them there, and if they suffer a little for the **** they did, I certainly am not going to care.
 
Speaking honestly, I don't give a crap about rehabilitation. I personally feel that messing with who someone is is the worst thing possible, even if that person is a terrible one. Best to just lock them up and keep them there, and if they suffer a little for the **** they did, I certainly am not going to care.

Rehabilitation isn't brainwashing, it's psychological counseling coupled in in-prison programs designed to give prisoners a healthy emotional outlet, like art or sports or academia.

And if we're talking about the ethics of it, then either way you slice it I think it would be infinitely more ethical to put someone through group therapy and art class than to put them through America's prison systems as they are now.

Also, the ethical way to treat the prisoners is only one part of the problem. There is also the issue of what's most effective at lowering the crime rate.
 
I don't think anyone should have to take an art class if they don't want to. Speaking ethically, I'm not terribly concerned with people I can't do anything for. And I really don't give much thought to the crime rate. The world's a dangerous place, and you need to watch your back regardless. Hell, violent crime just improves things in the long run anyway, by serving as a minor population check.
 
I don't think anyone should have to take an art class if they don't want to. Speaking ethically, I'm not terribly concerned with people I can't do anything for. And I really don't give much thought to the crime rate. The world's a dangerous place, and you need to watch your back regardless. Hell, violent crime just improves things in the long run anyway, by serving as a minor population check.

The whole point of prison is doing something you don't want to. No one wants to be locked up and have their civil liberties stripped away, but criminals prove that doing so to them is necessary to protect society. If you're going to have a prison system at all, then cocnerning yourself with the prisoner's ability to choose is largely counter productive because a lack of choice is inherent in the very concept.

That being said, would you rather have the system we have now, or one that gives better opportunities for prisoners to turn their lives around and gives them significantly more humane living conditions over all?

Besides, the kind of rehabilitation I'm talking about, if the prisoner is completely resistent to it then it's not like the facility would attempt to brainwash them. Like any kind of therapy or counseling, the patient has to want it on some level. The idea of a rehabilitation based prison system is that it creates an environment that encourages that.

As for the crime rate, yes the world is a dangerous place but if changing the prison system would make it a less dangerous place then why not do so?

I mean, yes, there is the population element that you mentioned, but I doubt lowering the violent crime rate would make a dent in the world's population growth big enough for it to really make a difference, and lowering the amount of other kinds of crime which takes a huge economic and cultural tole could ultimately free up resources that might in the long run help us tackle issues pertaining to our population growth in other ways, such as having the economic resources to find new ways to feed people.
 
That being said, would you rather have the system we have now, or one that gives better opportunities for prisoners to turn their lives around and gives them significantly more humane living conditions over all?

not sure...the perception, among most, is that once you go to prison, you officially lose any chance or right to a better life and if you spend the rest of your days digging ditches....that's what you get for going to prison

I'm all for rehabbing people, if they can be salvaged....if they can't, and let's face it, some are beyond help and are basically predators, need to be kept locked up
 
Would I rather this system or a new one? Don't care.

Why not make the world less dangerous? Hurts the species, people get "soft" so to speak when they're feeling safe. (Want to end obesity? Chase fat people.)

And when it comes to the population problem, I'm not on the side of "find new ways to feed people".


And before I'm called "cold" or "misanthropic" or whatever new **** people want to think, we're talking big picture stuff here. Feelings are unimportant at this level.
 
not sure...the perception, among most, is that once you go to prison, you officially lose any chance or right to a better life and if you spend the rest of your days digging ditches....that's what you get for going to prison

I'm all for rehabbing people, if they can be salvaged....if they can't, and let's face it, some are beyond help and are basically predators, need to be kept locked up

Well, if rehabilitation completely fails I'm hardly advocating to just turn them lose anyway.

Would I rather this system or a new one? Don't care.

Why do you have any kind of opinion about the ethics of rehabilitation then?

Why not make the world less dangerous? Hurts the species, people get "soft" so to speak when they're feeling safe. (Want to end obesity? Chase fat people.)

That's not really the cause of the obesity problem in the United States at all. Our high obesity rates stem mostly from the low quality of our cheaply produced food and our culture's habit of huge portions at meals. Living in regular danger wouldn't solve that problem, and it doesn't solve that problem for people living in low income/high crime areas.

As for feeling safe making people soft, what do you mean exactly? How does being in regular fear for your life make you a better person?

And when it comes to the population problem, I'm not on the side of "find new ways to feed people".

Why not? Ultimately, the problem with our growing population is us potentially running out of food and resources. If we find ways around that problem then there really isn't a population problem anymore, because we've found a way to sustain larger numbers.
 
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Because we're not designed to be a high population animal. We're made for small hunter/gatherer tribes, not billion people nations.
 
Darthphere should change his profile picture to this

not-listening.jpg

I would show you what your profile picture should be but I would get banned. Lets just say it involves you, The Question and a handie.:yay:
 
Not really. There are programs that will teach them all this stuff. You can get a college education in prison. It's your own fault if you don't get off your ass and take advantage of it.
Thank you for sparing me the question

No sympathy here. Guys a dumb ass.
I won't argue this
 

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