Alan Moore Still Not Interested

[WalterKovacs]

The answer of course is no. Dark Knight Returns and even the Chris Claremont/John Byrne run of X men were more influential than Watchmen. Hell even Spawn, which was ridiculous trash was more influential than Watchmen. The problem here is that for fanboys, Watchmen must be all things to all people. Its personally my favorite in the Graphic Novel genre and the fact that it hasn't spawned a "revolution" is a testament to its depth.

That's ridiculous. Say what you will about the book itself, but its impact is simply undeniable.

Watchmen is the first graphic novel to be considered legitimate literature, and it's on Time's list of the 100 greatest english language novels written from 1923 to present. You ask anybody who is involved in comics in the modern era in america, almost all of the important ones will tell you that watchmen was a gigantic impact on them. Same thing goes for countless people involved with the Television and Movie industry; including Richard Kelly, Joss Whedon, Kevin Smith, Darren Aronofsky, and the Co-creator of Lost.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Granted, a lot of comic books had enormous impacts surpassing Watchmen, and many of them had brilliant intentions and ramifications, IE the flawed and relatable heroes and political alegories of Marvel Comics, but until Watchmen, it was almost impossible for people to see comic books as anything more than "Funnybooks."

 

[wobbly]

Miracleman, also my Moore, preceded Watchmen by 4 years.

And for me that took on the superhero mythology and turned it in it's head just as much as Watchmen ever did (not as clever as Watchmen was, but still the first truely 'adult' take I'd seen on the mythos).

 

[CaptainGenerica]

So now this is a debate about whether Watchmen was revolutionary or not? We all know it was "influential", regardless of what modifiers or superlatives we each might personally add to that description. This is a Watchmen forum, so clearly we all love it. Let's just let that be enough for all of us, eh?

 

[brobdingnag]

That's ridiculous. Say what you will about the book itself, but its impact is simply undeniable.

Watchmen is the first graphic novel to be considered legitimate literature, and it's on Time's list of the 100 greatest english language novels written from 1923 to present. You ask anybody who is involved in comics in the modern era in america, almost all of the important ones will tell you that watchmen was a gigantic impact on them. Same thing goes for countless people involved with the Television and Movie industry; including Richard Kelly, Joss Whedon, Kevin Smith, Darren Aronofsky, and the Co-creator of Lost.

And no one would think that someone whose handle is Walter Kovacs and who has a quote from the book as their board quote would be biased in their opinion of the impact of Watchmen would they?

 

[The Guard]

MIRACLEMAN may have preceeded WATCHMEN, but it did not revolutionize or redefine the medium.

 

[WalterKovacs]

And no one would think that someone whose handle is Walter Kovacs and who has a quote from the book as their board quote would be biased in their opinion of the impact of Watchmen would they?

And somebody whos title refers to a swiftian land of people who are giants would think they're bigger and better than everyone wouldn't they?

If my handle/sig is based from watchmen, it is because my love for watchmen stems from nothing other than the fact that it's a fantastic novel that shook the way a lot of fiction would be told.

 

[StorminNorman]

For anybody to question the impact Watchmen played on the comic industry is to prove their own ignorance in the field.

 

[brobdingnag]

And somebody whos title refers to a swiftian land of people who are giants would think they're bigger and better than everyone wouldn't they?

If my handle/sig is based from watchmen, it is because my love for watchmen stems from nothing other than the fact that it's a fantastic novel that shook the way a lot of fiction would be told.

Yeah, I saw your list of supposedly Watchmen influenced creators. If they are, you can't tell it from their work. You aren't helping your case by trotting out hacks like Smith and Whedon. And since we aren't discussing Swift but Moore, it's my opinion we'll go with because you aren't capable of being objective on the topic.

 

[brobdingnag]

For anybody to question the impact Watchmen played on the comic industry is to prove their own ignorance in the field.

The same goes for anyone who over-states it.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Yeah, I saw your list of supposedly Watchmen influenced creators. If they are, you can't tell it from their work. You aren't helping your case by trotting out hacks like Smith and Whedon. And since we aren't discussing Swift but Moore, it's my opinion we'll go with because you aren't capable of being objective on the topic.

So Joss Whedon is a hack? OK.

Suggested reading:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1120854,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/2005/100books/0,24459,watchmen,00.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/books/review/20itzkoff.html

But hell, what do those clowns at Time Magazine and the New York Times know, right? Give me spawn anyday. Watchmen is just a dumb story about impotent psychopaths and fat homos in spandex and trenchcoats. Just another mindless funnybook.

 

[brobdingnag]

So Joss Whedon is a hack? OK.

Suggested reading:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1120854,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/2005/100books/0,24459,watchmen,00.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/books/review/20itzkoff.html

But hell, what do those clowns at Time Magazine and the New York Times know, right? Give me spawn anyday. Watchmen is just a dumb story about impotent psychopaths and fat homos in spandex and trenchcoats. Just another mindless funnybook.

I don't ask for my opinions from others, I form them on my own. And if I did, none of those organizations would be who I would ask about comics. What you are doing here is creating easily knocked down straw-men. Your posts are consistently non sequiturs as they relate to the posts of mine you seem to be replying to. I spoke ill of Whedon and Smith so you proceed to link to articles praising watchmen, not links supporting your assertion that those "artists" are talented or are influenced by Alan Moore?!??! I have said that Watchmen is my favorite work in the medium of comic books and that the fact that it HASN'T spawned a host of imitators is to its credit. The only one trashing Watchmen is you. You claim that Watchmen spawned a revolution or totally changed comics which is a matter of debate. All I claim is that Watchmen is my favorite comic, which is not open to debate.

 

[wobbly]

MIRACLEMAN may have preceeded WATCHMEN, but it did not revolutionize or redefine the medium.

True, but then it never got the kind of exposure Watchmen received either: Had Miracleman been published by DC or Marvel, rather than a relatively small time British publishing house, who knows what would have been made of it at that time? After all, a great many readers will have only discovered the MM gem after reading books like Watchmen.

Also a bit of a 'chicken & egg, which comes first?' scenario: If Moore had not written Miracleman first, a book which clearly fills the criteria cited here as being the results of Watchmen's influence in later comic book literature, then he may never have gone on to write Watchmen.

 

[Mercurius]

I don't ask for my opinions from others, I form them on my own. And if I did, none of those organizations would be who I would ask about comics. What you are doing here is creating easily knocked down straw-men. Your posts are consistently non sequiturs as they relate to the posts of mine you seem to be replying to. I spoke ill of Whedon and Smith so you proceed to link to articles praising watchmen, not links supporting your assertion that those "artists" are talented or are influenced by Alan Moore?!??! I have said that Watchmen is my favorite work in the medium of comic books and that the fact that it HASN'T spawned a host of imitators is to its credit. The only one trashing Watchmen is you. You claim that Watchmen spawned a revolution or totally changed comics which is a matter of debate. All I claim is that Watchmen is my favorite comic, which is not open to debate.

Spotting easy mistakes, for thread service.

1) Trusting in personal opinion only means to be condemned to a very self-indulgent lack of criticsm;

2) To spawn imitators IS NOT the same as to say it begun a revolution. A revolution means, in this case, heightened awareness as to the in-depth implications of world with superheroes;

3) Watchmen revolution in the way writers and public understand the superhero genre IS NOT open to debate. It is a fact. You might not like it, but that won't change things.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Spotting easy mistakes, for thread service.

1) Trusting in personal opinion only means to be condemned to a very self-indulgent lack of criticsm;

2) To spawn imitators IS NOT the same as to say it begun a revolution. A revolution means, in this case, heightened awareness as to the in-depth implications of world with superheroes;

3) Watchmen revolution in the way writers and public understand the superhero genre IS NOT open to debate. It is a fact. You might not like it, but that won't change things.

 

[brobdingnag]

Sorry but I've put the imbecile you are quoting on ignore and since you cannot answer for yourself that is exactly where you are going to.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Sorry but I've put the imbecile you are quoting on ignore and since you cannot answer for yourself that is exactly where you are going to.

good to hear, you stuck up bastard.

 

[The Battousai]

Sorry but I've put the imbecile you are quoting on ignore and since you cannot answer for yourself that is exactly where you are going to.

Amazing! You know how to use imbecile in a sentence? Remarkable feat, to be sure. t:

Using punctuation properly, however, may be of greater use to you.

 

[Mercurius]

Sorry but I've put the imbecile you are quoting on ignore and since you cannot answer for yourself that is exactly where you are going to.

Ouch!
Is he referring to my august person? How dares he?

You know, hatred is not good for your health.

 

[deathfromabove]

For anybody to question the impact Watchmen played on the comic industry is to prove their own ignorance in the field.

The same goes for anyone who over-states it.

:

how many comic book writers and/or artists do you know?

I don't ask for my opinions from others, I form them on my own.

thats good. your opinion has been stated multiple times now. since i (and many others on this board) also form our own opinions kindly shut the **** up already.

if you dont think watchmen was seminal and influential that is your right. just understand you are in the minority on this one. and i dont just mean on this message board. watchmen is widely regarded by both those inside the industry and the fanbase as one of the most important works in the medium ever. like i said, feel free to disagree, but your opinion is the equivalent of walking into a film class and saying jean luc goddard was a hack because i say so.

and you keep asking for someone to tell you why/how it was revolutionary. i say the burden is on you to show that it wasnt in fact revolutionary.

and everyone. we need to keep this guys opinions in perspective. this is coming from someone who thinks fantastic four was a better movie than batman begins and tactical nuclear weapons are good for "teaching lessons." that and he is bitter because, no matter the outcome in november, bronag will have to vote for somone more liberal than he is.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

lol@ people criticsing Watchmen's legacy

 

[cerealkiller182]

Your like or dislike of Watchmen is an opinion. The effect it had on comic book industry and literature as a whole isnt based on opinion.

 

[Infinity9999x]

And no one would think that someone whose handle is Walter Kovacs and who has a quote from the book as their board quote would be biased in their opinion of the impact of Watchmen would they?

Insult his bias all you want, but that doesn't make his points any less valid. Time did have Watchmen as one of their 100 greatest novels. The history channel special also cited Watchmen as one of the most influential books in the business. Countless comic writers cite watchmen as one of the comics that most influenced them.

Watchmen, combined with TDK (and to an extent, Sandman) were the books that showed people comics could be dark and edgy.

 

[8blades]

So happy Alan Moore is boycotting this tripe!!

 

[WalterKovacs]

and everyone. we need to keep this guys opinions in perspective. this is coming from someone who thinks fantastic four was a better movie than batman begins and tactical nuclear weapons are good for "teaching lessons." that and he is bitter because, no matter the outcome in november, bronag will have to vote for somone more liberal than he is.

Yeah, he also said sandy corolla was more talented than christopher nolan. Also, he blocks anybody that points out his stupidity, so he very well might be an articulate teenager.