Iron Man 3 All Hail the King

[cherokeesam]

I really don't see how it constitutes an epilogue. It doesn't provide any kind of closure to the central elements of the film series and it raises more questions than it answers. That doesn't feel super epilogue-y to me.

It's an epilogue to Trevor Slattery's story, nothing more. That's all it was intended to be. *Not* an epilogue to Tony Stark's story, obviously, since Tony still has lots of work to do.

AHTK is about real Mandarin/Ten Rings exacting revenge against Trevor Slattery for publicly impersonating them. That storyline begins, and ends, only in the one-shot. Again: there is absolutely no reason to look for Real Mandarin any time in the future, since he literally has no business with Tony Stark.

So yes, it's an epilogue. To Trevor Slattery's poor, misguided life.

Spoiler

Before this short, the Mandarin was never named in reference to being the leader of the Ten Rings. Mandarin name only got mentioned in Iron Man 3 to this point. Any other villain could have been leading the Ten Rings prior to this. While the Ten Rings name definitely is inspired from the Mandarin character from the comics, within the confines of IM1 and IM2, we never heard the name "Mandarin." AHTK is the first time the Mandarin has been officially linked to the Ten Rings. So in essence, Marvel does retcon Shane Black's version of the Mandarin. Given RDJ will likely never get to fight the now "actual Mandarin" and thus I am not a fan of this direction. This was made purely to stop people from complaining about Aldrich Killian. Compromising your vision is never a good reason to make a movie, especially when you gave the greenlight to this idea in the first place.

AHTK isn't about compromising or retconning Shane Black's vision. Black's vision is still intact, because IM3 wasn't about The Mandarin. IM3 was about Killian. It was about That Man Behind the Curtain, the one you should pay no attention to. The "I AM THE MANDARIN!" line was pure metaphor, and in no way indicates that Killian ever crossed paths, stalked, manipulated or had reason to "seek revenge" against Tony Stark any time between 1999 and 2013. Nor does it ever indicate that Killian had any connection to the real Ten Rings.

Bottom line on Ten Rings and The Mandarin: at one time in the distant past, Ten Rings and The Mandarin were a force to be feared, like the real-world Assassins and their mythical leader, The Old Man of the Mountain. Over time, they fell into disarray, so that by the time IM3 opens, they're clearly just a bunch of Taliban running around in unconnected splinter cells led by worthless warlords like Raza.

Spoiler

What we see in AHTK is a core group of purists, who still believe in what Ten Rings once stood for. But there's absolutely no indication that even *they* (Jackson and the unseen Real Mandarin) are telling the truth. They may just be regular terrorists who *believe* they're preserving the "pure" heart of the original Ten Rings, but in essence are little more than nostalgia worshippers.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

It's an epilogue to Trevor Slattery's story, nothing more. That's all it was intended to be. *Not* an epilogue to Tony Stark's story, obviously, since Tony still has lots of work to do.

AHTK is about real Mandarin/Ten Rings exacting revenge against Trevor Slattery for publicly impersonating them. That storyline begins, and ends, only in the one-shot. Again: there is absolutely no reason to look for Real Mandarin any time in the future, since he literally has no business with Tony Stark.

So yes, it's an epilogue. To Trevor Slattery's poor, misguided life.



AHTK isn't about compromising or retconning Shane Black's vision. Black's vision is still intact, because IM3 wasn't about The Mandarin. IM3 was about Killian. It was about That Man Behind the Curtain, the one you should pay no attention to. The "I AM THE MANDARIN!" line was pure metaphor, and in no way indicates that Killian ever crossed paths, stalked, manipulated or had reason to "seek revenge" against Tony Stark any time between 1999 and 2013. Nor does it ever indicate that Killian had any connection to the real Ten Rings.

Bottom line on Ten Rings and The Mandarin: at one time in the distant past, Ten Rings and The Mandarin were a force to be feared, like the real-world Assassins and their mythical leader, The Old Man of the Mountain. Over time, they fell into disarray, so that by the time IM3 opens, they're clearly just a bunch of Taliban running around in unconnected splinter cells led by worthless warlords like Raza.

Spoiler

What we see in AHTK is a core group of purists, who still believe in what Ten Rings once stood for. But there's absolutely no indication that even *they* (Jackson and the unseen Real Mandarin) are telling the truth. They may just be regular terrorists who *believe* they're preserving the "pure" heart of the original Ten Rings, but in essence are little more than nostalgia worshippers.

Again: For all we know, the events of Iron Man and Iron Man 2 could have been influenced by the real Mandarin, which means that he is still pissed at Tony. Furthermore, he might have some sort of past with Tony's father that we don't know about. That could be more of a reason.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's an epilogue to Trevor Slattery's story, nothing more. That's all it was intended to be. *Not* an epilogue to Tony Stark's story, obviously, since Tony still has lots of work to do.

AHTK is about real Mandarin/Ten Rings exacting revenge against Trevor Slattery for publicly impersonating them. That storyline begins, and ends, only in the one-shot. Again: there is absolutely no reason to look for Real Mandarin any time in the future, since he literally has no business with Tony Stark.

So yes, it's an epilogue. To Trevor Slattery's poor, misguided life.



AHTK isn't about compromising or retconning Shane Black's vision. Black's vision is still intact, because IM3 wasn't about The Mandarin. IM3 was about Killian. It was about That Man Behind the Curtain, the one you should pay no attention to. The "I AM THE MANDARIN!" line was pure metaphor, and in no way indicates that Killian ever crossed paths, stalked, manipulated or had reason to "seek revenge" against Tony Stark any time between 1999 and 2013. Nor does it ever indicate that Killian had any connection to the real Ten Rings.

Bottom line on Ten Rings and The Mandarin: at one time in the distant past, Ten Rings and The Mandarin were a force to be feared, like the real-world Assassins and their mythical leader, The Old Man of the Mountain. Over time, they fell into disarray, so that by the time IM3 opens, they're clearly just a bunch of Taliban running around in unconnected splinter cells led by worthless warlords like Raza.

Spoiler

What we see in AHTK is a core group of purists, who still believe in what Ten Rings once stood for. But there's absolutely no indication that even *they* (Jackson and the unseen Real Mandarin) are telling the truth. They may just be regular terrorists who *believe* they're preserving the "pure" heart of the original Ten Rings, but in essence are little more than nostalgia worshippers.

I never said Killian was behind IM1 or IM2. I didn't think he was. Prior to this, I would have just assumed that the Ten Rings were the Ten Rings, Killian was Mandarin, and the events of IM3 were not built off of IM1 or IM2. It was a different group. I don't think he ever had a connection with them (nor ever did). But, I do feel that this is a tacked on thing that Black never intended with his version of Trevor/Killian/Mandarin. Ultimately, this new plot point is kind of useless. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

What's interesting to me is that, if Jon Favreau had directed Iron Man 3, we probably would have gotten a more "real Mandarin." He said that he WAS hinting at the Mandarin's prescence in IM and IM 2. .

I somewhat understand IM. IM2...no. In what way is anything Mandarin felt in Iron Man 2? BTW, Faverau was gonna change Mandarin too.

 

[The Question]

What's interesting to me is that, if Jon Favreau had directed Iron Man 3, we probably would have gotten a more "real Mandarin." He said that he WAS hinting at the Mandarin's prescence in IM and IM 2. He even compared it to the Emperor in Star Wars (building him up until he's finally revealed fully in ROTJ). It was Black and Pearce who changed things. It seems pretty clear that Black simply didn't like the character and if he had to do him, was going to do him in a way that was so obtuse that it wasn't even close to being the same character. The fact that he not only did the twist, but then turned the "Mandarin" into a big joke only furthers that belief. I've always believed that if writers don't like a particular character, that's perfectly fine. However, then they shouldn't use that character since they almost always make them look bad or screw things up. You don't like the Mandarin Shane Black, ok that's fine. Then just use a different villain entirely instead of turning him into a cheap punch-line. Oh and I completely reject the argument that you can't do the Mandarin without him being racist. Several comic books writers have done exactly that, done the Mandarin without the racial aspects, so that complaint doesn't work.

It doesn't seem clear to me that Black straight up didn't like the character. And I don't think you can call what he did with the character a joke. He didn't turn The Mandarin into a cheap punch line, he took a pretty simplistic villain without a whole lot of anything interesting going on for him and turned him into a really complex and interesting thing that served as a strong dramatic foil for the lead and served as a nice bit of social commentary while also sticking true to the core elements of what The Mandarin, as a character, is about. As a character, Aldrich Killian embodies everything The Mandarin is about in terms of his personality, motivations, M.O., and the basics of his backstory, while also deconstructing and analyzing the simplistic and largely offensive elements of the character and using them to say something genuinely engaging. I think Shane Black's take on The Mandarin is probably one of the smartest and most engaging interpretations of the character ever. You say that it wasn't even close to being the same character, but I really don't see that. I see The Mandarin distilled down to his core in a movie that played with the concept on multiple levels in a very meta-textual way that added depth where there was little before.

Those other, newer, less racist takes on The Mandarin you mentioned? They're all well and good (although most of them still have him using magical chi powers, so there's still some racism there), but they're still just stories about a pretty basic evil mastermind without much going on for him as a character that's interesting. I really don't think any of them hold a candle to Iron man 3.

All in all, this isn't something one does out of hate. This is something one does because they've found what's truly of value in a concept and they've come to care for it.

 

[ronri]

It doesn't seem clear to me that Black straight up didn't like the character. And I don't think you can call what he did with the character a joke. He didn't turn The Mandarin into a cheap punch line, he took a pretty simplistic villain without a whole lot of anything interesting going on for him and turned him into a really complex and interesting thing that served as a strong dramatic foil for the lead and served as a nice bit of social commentary while also sticking true to the core elements of what The Mandarin, as a character, is about. As a character, Aldrich Killian embodies everything The Mandarin is about in terms of his personality, motivations, M.O., and the basics of his backstory, while also deconstructing and analyzing the simplistic and largely offensive elements of the character and using them to say something genuinely engaging. I think Shane Black's take on The Mandarin is probably one of the smartest and most engaging interpretations of the character ever. You say that it wasn't even close to being the same character, but I really don't see that. I see The Mandarin distilled down to his core in a movie that played with the concept on multiple levels in a very meta-textual way that added depth where there was little before.

Those other, newer, less racist takes on The Mandarin you mentioned? They're all well and good (although most of them still have him using magical chi powers, so there's still some racism there), but they're still just stories about a pretty basic evil mastermind without much going on for him as a character that's interesting. I really don't think any of them hold a candle to Iron man 3.

All in all, this isn't something one does out of hate. This is something one does because they've found what's truly of value in a concept and they've come to care for it.

Agreed, I never saw the Mandarin in IM3 (be it Trevor or Killian) as a joke, more than anything it was this really clever way of adapting a cliched villain (sorry but it was only more recently that the Mandarin even became interesting) with some tacked on humor on the part of Kingsley's acting as the cherry on the top. Black even said that Killian had always been in the mindset of embodying the idea of the Mandarin persona all this time despite having an actor portray it for him (to maintain anonymity after all). Just as Iron Man is the mask to Tony Stark, the Mandarin was intended for the same thing for Aldrich Killian, something that Black was very clear about it. The fact that Drew Pearce even admitted that he purposely incorporated elements of the Mandarin into Killian makes this new decision of a "real" Mandarin that much more puzzling.

Basically, why did they even bother if they were just going to end up with a "more real" Mandarin than Aldrich Killian? We could've just gotten Aldrich Killian as an Extremis bad guy that's heavily inspired from Mallen, but no they went further by making Mandarin the more central figure in this amalgam of a character. Black even confirmed that his final lines meant exactly what they were saying, in that he gives the Mandarin, "the real guy", by way of Guy Pearce's Aldrich Killian. He wouldn't have gone through the effort of constructing a plot similar to what the Mandarin had planned for Extremis in the comics, slapped dragon tattoos on him, making Guy Pearce do karate chops for fight scenes, and a very purposeful final speech, if he didn't mean any of it.

I've read enough comics that I actually find myself associating Kilian as the Mandarin more than Kingsley's terrorist image, albeit much younger than what we're normally used to seeing. But even then, as mentioned before, the idea of the Mandarin being a young businessman was actually what Favreau had in mind for IM1, it just got scrapped because they wanted Stane to get more of the spotlight. Taking this into account it makes more sense why Killian is the way he is.

Spoiler

Before this short, the Mandarin was never named in reference to being the leader of the Ten Rings. Mandarin name only got mentioned in Iron Man 3 to this point. Any other villain could have been leading the Ten Rings prior to this. While the Ten Rings name definitely is inspired from the Mandarin character from the comics, within the confines of IM1 and IM2, we never heard the name "Mandarin." AHTK is the first time the Mandarin has been officially linked to the Ten Rings. So in essence, Marvel does retcon Shane Black's version of the Mandarin. Given RDJ will likely never get to fight the now "actual Mandarin" and thus I am not a fan of this direction. This was made purely to stop people from complaining about Aldrich Killian. Compromising your vision is never a good reason to make a movie, especially when you gave the greenlight to this idea in the first place.

This is exactly how I took it. By the end of IM3, the Ten Rings being a reference to the Mandarin in the comics is just that, a reference. I didn't view them as being in anyway connected to a "Mandarin" leader, especially since Favreau initially planned for the Mandarin to be a young businessman that served as Stane's boss with Stane acting as his spy. We never got any "hints" of a Mandarin leader in the MCU canon, just an independent terrorist group that has a name that references the Mandarin character in the comics.

In this regard, Killian being the MCU's Mandarin is a separate matter and one that isn't mutually exclusive to being tied with the Ten Rings. So yes, in effect, they do retcon Black's vision and official designation of Killian as the MCU's Mandarin, by literally telling us that "No, Aldrich Killian is Aldrich Killian now, because we have a REAL Mandarin." The fact that this One-Shot undermines Black's vision and intention behind IM3 is what makes it that much more jarring, especially for something as little as a BD/DVD extra.

 

[Uskok]

Before I continue into this discussion, I must say I've never seen the comic book Mandarin. The only Mandarin I ever saw before was the one in the 1994 Iron Man animated series. I know that sucks but some Marvel comics aren't much available in my country. But I am a fan of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and I try to study every aspect of that franchise, which is why I am one of the admins of the Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki.

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_Wiki

Now, I don't wan't to sound like some "big boss", but in this case, I think I can clarify some things in this whole Mandarin confusion.

First, I know that some of you feel cheated because Killian isn't the Mandarin and that you consider All Hail the King as some sort of a retcon. But believe me, it's not a retcon, and I'll explain why.

Second, the main problem that all of you have is that you completely ignore one small but very important fact. This franchise isn't composed just of big films like Iron Man 3 and short films like All Hail the King. There's something called tie-in comics as well, and these comics further expand the story of the films, give us some additional stories, or tie together two or more movies within the MCU. If you took a look at them, a lot of questions in this topic would be answered before you even had to ask a question.

Now to get to the point.

The Ten Rings are a real terrorist organization, and they have no connection to Aldrich Killian or A.I.M. As you can see in the following comics (Iron Man 2: Public Identity, Iron Man 2: Black Widow: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., Iron Man 2: Nick Fury: Director of S.H.I.E.L.D., Iron Man 2: Phil Coulson: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., The Avengers: Black Widow Strikes) between the events of Iron Man and Iron Man 2, Tony Stark spent a lot of time fighting against the Ten Rings. He alone ruined more of their operations than the US Army and S.H.I.E.L.D. together. And that's why the leader of the Ten Rings has every right to be pissed on Tony Stark.

Now, Iron Man 3 was released on May 3, 2013, but the Iron Man 3 Prelude comic was released in January/February, three months before the film. The comic's story is set before, during, and after the events of The Avengers. And in this comic you can see Tony Stark making the new War Machine armor for James Rhodes (the same armor that would be later repainted and renamed Iron Patriot). Tony needs Rhodes to play the super hero because Tony is too busy with his own projects to fly around the world. Rhodes takes the armor and uses it to fight against the Ten Rings in India, Afghanistan, Sudan, and China. He has a clash with the Ten Rings in Hong Kong at the same time when the Avengers fight against the Chitauri in New York. Rhodes returns to New York just in time to see the Avengers eating shawarma. But in some other place, a Ten Rings agent informs his leader, the Mandarin, that they failed in their mission to capture Rhodes and his armor. However, they managed to scan the War Machine armor, thus obtaining invaluable information, and now they have all they need to destroy Iron Man.

http://blogdesuperheroes.es/wp-content/plugins/BdSGallery/BdSGaleria/13888.jpg

And that's when we first see the Mandarin. I admit, at that time, I believed that the Mandarin is Ben Kingsley's character. Anyone would believe that. But as you can see, in this comic we see the Mandarin, but we can't see his face. For a reason.


Now, we saw what we saw in Iron Man 3, and that's when we had a really long discussion on the MCU Wiki about this whole Mandarin situation. Is Killian the Mandarin or not? Is he leader of the Ten Rings or not? Are the Ten Rings a real organization or just a facade like Slattery? Those were just some of the questions.


The first hint of an answer came from Drew Pearce himself. When someone asked him about the Ten Rings and their involvement in Iron Man 3, he said:As far as I'm concerned: real terrorist group. Current status unknown. Co-opted by Killian's think tank as Mandarin material.
https://***********/espinafrando/status/331461116662280193
Therefore, Killian isn't the leader od the Ten Rings. All those "Ten Rings terrorists" around Trevor Slattery in Iron Man 3 were just actors, just like Slattery.

But now came another problem. From what we saw in Iron Man 3, the Mandarin is just a fictional character portrayed by a drunken actor who's not trustworthy enough to hold a real gun. If that's the case, then who's the Mandarin in the Iron Man 3 Prelude comic?

As stated by Drew Pearce, the Ten Rings are a real terrorist group, therefore, they have a real leader. Now we had to find out who that leader is.

1) Killian - NOT, because Killian's men only co-opted the iconography of the Ten Rings for their little show. They had no contact with the real Ten Rings organization.
2) Trevor Slattery - HARDLY, as we saw what he is in Iron Man 3. A drunken, drug-addicted coward. For a time, I played with the idea that Slattery really is the Mandarin, the leader of the Ten Rings, and during this whole time he was using Killian to achieve some mysterious goals, while Killian believed that Slattery was just a drunken actor. In this scenario, Killian was a puppet, not Slattery. Now that would be a real plot twist. But I later rejected that idea.

And that gives us only the option number 3. The real Mandarin, the real leader of the Ten Rings, is someone else, and so far, he appears only in the Iron Man 3 Prelude comic. And that's why All Hail the King isn't a retcon. The real Mandarin was here this whole time, you just didn't see him, or should I say, you didn't know where to find him. And he's pissed on Tony Stark for ruining his operations, he's pissed on Slattery for stealing his name, and he wants to have revenge on both of them.

 

[ronri]

I think it's been long established that Killian was never connected to the Ten Rings, but as it stands, Shane Black (the director, meaning the main person that overlooked the direction of Iron Man 3) specifically designated Killian as the MCU's version of the Mandarin in an official interview that was released when he, Drew Pearce and Kevin Feige were asked to address the whole Mandarin twist and what it was all about. In this case, it's not the Ten Rings connection that people are crying "retcon" over, it's the fact that Killian was designated as the MCU's Mandarin and how it's now being retconned with a new "real" Mandarin (in turn, rendering part of Killian's character role as meaningless). Again, it's not the fact that the Ten Rings is connected to Killian (which like I said, I'm pretty sure everyone already knew that they weren't by now), but that the main creative influence behind Iron Man 3, Shane Black, continually insisted that, regardless of the Ten Rings, Guy Pearce's Killian was the MCU's Mandarin ("the real guy"). It should be noted that Drew Pearce wasn't the only writer of IM3 since Shane Black was also credited as co-writer as well.

I'm curious though, have we even gotten any word from Shane Black about the One-Shot? Because as far as I know, it's mainly Drew Pearce who conceived the idea behind it and who's been answering questions about it.

 

[Visualiza]

The fact that this is still such a heated point of discussion is just staggering, and a little funny. At this point, I would love it if AHTK became a series of one-shots, with the next one solely made to poke fun at and confuse the fans.

Best way to achieve this? Let the Mandarin that wants to kill Trevor turn out to be Killian by the conclusion. If this little 10 minute bit got everyone riled up as it has, I can't even imagine the firestorm that would erupt after a 'gotcha' like that.

 

[giveyourself12%]

What's interesting to me is that, if Jon Favreau had directed Iron Man 3, we probably would have gotten a more "real Mandarin." He said that he WAS hinting at the Mandarin's prescence in IM and IM 2. He even compared it to the Emperor in Star Wars (building him up until he's finally revealed fully in ROTJ).

I know...I can't believe this didn't happen.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

If you really wanna think that way, we kinda got that with Killian being Mandarin lol.

 

[Visualiza]

^Loving that sig of yours.

 

[The Question]

Before I continue into this discussion, I must say I've never seen the comic book Mandarin. The only Mandarin I ever saw before was the one in the 1994 Iron Man animated series. I know that sucks but some Marvel comics aren't much available in my country. But I am a fan of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and I try to study every aspect of that franchise, which is why I am one of the admins of the Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki.

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_Wiki

Now, I don't wan't to sound like some "big boss", but in this case, I think I can clarify some things in this whole Mandarin confusion.

First, I know that some of you feel cheated because Killian isn't the Mandarin and that you consider All Hail the King as some sort of a retcon. But believe me, it's not a retcon, and I'll explain why.

Second, the main problem that all of you have is that you completely ignore one small but very important fact. This franchise isn't composed just of big films like Iron Man 3 and short films like All Hail the King. There's something called tie-in comics as well, and these comics further expand the story of the films, give us some additional stories, or tie together two or more movies within the MCU. If you took a look at them, a lot of questions in this topic would be answered before you even had to ask a question.

Now to get to the point.

The Ten Rings are a real terrorist organization, and they have no connection to Aldrich Killian or A.I.M. As you can see in the following comics (Iron Man 2: Public Identity, Iron Man 2: Black Widow: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., Iron Man 2: Nick Fury: Director of S.H.I.E.L.D., Iron Man 2: Phil Coulson: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., The Avengers: Black Widow Strikes) between the events of Iron Man and Iron Man 2, Tony Stark spent a lot of time fighting against the Ten Rings. He alone ruined more of their operations than the US Army and S.H.I.E.L.D. together. And that's why the leader of the Ten Rings has every right to be pissed on Tony Stark.

Now, Iron Man 3 was released on May 3, 2013, but the Iron Man 3 Prelude comic was released in January/February, three months before the film. The comic's story is set before, during, and after the events of The Avengers. And in this comic you can see Tony Stark making the new War Machine armor for James Rhodes (the same armor that would be later repainted and renamed Iron Patriot). Tony needs Rhodes to play the super hero because Tony is too busy with his own projects to fly around the world. Rhodes takes the armor and uses it to fight against the Ten Rings in India, Afghanistan, Sudan, and China. He has a clash with the Ten Rings in Hong Kong at the same time when the Avengers fight against the Chitauri in New York. Rhodes returns to New York just in time to see the Avengers eating shawarma. But in some other place, a Ten Rings agent informs his leader, the Mandarin, that they failed in their mission to capture Rhodes and his armor. However, they managed to scan the War Machine armor, thus obtaining invaluable information, and now they have all they need to destroy Iron Man.

http://blogdesuperheroes.es/wp-content/plugins/BdSGallery/BdSGaleria/13888.jpg

And that's when we first see the Mandarin. I admit, at that time, I believed that the Mandarin is Ben Kingsley's character. Anyone would believe that. But as you can see, in this comic we see the Mandarin, but we can't see his face. For a reason.


Now, we saw what we saw in Iron Man 3, and that's when we had a really long discussion on the MCU Wiki about this whole Mandarin situation. Is Killian the Mandarin or not? Is he leader of the Ten Rings or not? Are the Ten Rings a real organization or just a facade like Slattery? Those were just some of the questions.


The first hint of an answer came from Drew Pearce himself. When someone asked him about the Ten Rings and their involvement in Iron Man 3, he said:As far as I'm concerned: real terrorist group. Current status unknown. Co-opted by Killian's think tank as Mandarin material.
https://***********/espinafrando/status/331461116662280193
Therefore, Killian isn't the leader od the Ten Rings. All those "Ten Rings terrorists" around Trevor Slattery in Iron Man 3 were just actors, just like Slattery.

But now came another problem. From what we saw in Iron Man 3, the Mandarin is just a fictional character portrayed by a drunken actor who's not trustworthy enough to hold a real gun. If that's the case, then who's the Mandarin in the Iron Man 3 Prelude comic?

As stated by Drew Pearce, the Ten Rings are a real terrorist group, therefore, they have a real leader. Now we had to find out who that leader is.

1) Killian - NOT, because Killian's men only co-opted the iconography of the Ten Rings for their little show. They had no contact with the real Ten Rings organization.
2) Trevor Slattery - HARDLY, as we saw what he is in Iron Man 3. A drunken, drug-addicted coward. For a time, I played with the idea that Slattery really is the Mandarin, the leader of the Ten Rings, and during this whole time he was using Killian to achieve some mysterious goals, while Killian believed that Slattery was just a drunken actor. In this scenario, Killian was a puppet, not Slattery. Now that would be a real plot twist. But I later rejected that idea.

And that gives us only the option number 3. The real Mandarin, the real leader of the Ten Rings, is someone else, and so far, he appears only in the Iron Man 3 Prelude comic. And that's why All Hail the King isn't a retcon. The real Mandarin was here this whole time, you just didn't see him, or should I say, you didn't know where to find him. And he's pissed on Tony Stark for ruining his operations, he's pissed on Slattery for stealing his name, and he wants to have revenge on both of them.

That's all working off of the assumption that The Mandarin has to be the founder and/or leader of The Ten Rings. While that is a pretty intuitive assumption, the fact is that the Ten Rings aren't a thing that's in the comics, they were created for the movies as a reference to The Mandarin to build off of later. Before this one shot, I think most people were working off of the assumption that The Ten Rings were a separate thing that AIM simply co-opted, but that Killian had invented the Mandarin persona for his purposes, and that there was no figure or title called The Mandarin related to the Ten Rings. Which actually fist in with the notion of Killian being an adaptation of The Mandarin. Just like The Mandarin of the comics took ten literal rings for himself that he did not create or have any right to, Killian co-opted the Ten Rings organization for his own purposes, even though he did not create it or have any right to it.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Before I continue into this discussion, I must say I've never seen the comic book Mandarin. The only Mandarin I ever saw before was the one in the 1994 Iron Man animated series. I know that sucks but some Marvel comics aren't much available in my country. But I am a fan of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and I try to study every aspect of that franchise, which is why I am one of the admins of the Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki.

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_Wiki

Now, I don't wan't to sound like some "big boss", but in this case, I think I can clarify some things in this whole Mandarin confusion.

First, I know that some of you feel cheated because Killian isn't the Mandarin and that you consider All Hail the King as some sort of a retcon. But believe me, it's not a retcon, and I'll explain why.

Second, the main problem that all of you have is that you completely ignore one small but very important fact. This franchise isn't composed just of big films like Iron Man 3 and short films like All Hail the King. There's something called tie-in comics as well, and these comics further expand the story of the films, give us some additional stories, or tie together two or more movies within the MCU. If you took a look at them, a lot of questions in this topic would be answered before you even had to ask a question.

Now to get to the point.

The Ten Rings are a real terrorist organization, and they have no connection to Aldrich Killian or A.I.M. As you can see in the following comics (Iron Man 2: Public Identity, Iron Man 2: Black Widow: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., Iron Man 2: Nick Fury: Director of S.H.I.E.L.D., Iron Man 2: Phil Coulson: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., The Avengers: Black Widow Strikes) between the events of Iron Man and Iron Man 2, Tony Stark spent a lot of time fighting against the Ten Rings. He alone ruined more of their operations than the US Army and S.H.I.E.L.D. together. And that's why the leader of the Ten Rings has every right to be pissed on Tony Stark.

Now, Iron Man 3 was released on May 3, 2013, but the Iron Man 3 Prelude comic was released in January/February, three months before the film. The comic's story is set before, during, and after the events of The Avengers. And in this comic you can see Tony Stark making the new War Machine armor for James Rhodes (the same armor that would be later repainted and renamed Iron Patriot). Tony needs Rhodes to play the super hero because Tony is too busy with his own projects to fly around the world. Rhodes takes the armor and uses it to fight against the Ten Rings in India, Afghanistan, Sudan, and China. He has a clash with the Ten Rings in Hong Kong at the same time when the Avengers fight against the Chitauri in New York. Rhodes returns to New York just in time to see the Avengers eating shawarma. But in some other place, a Ten Rings agent informs his leader, the Mandarin, that they failed in their mission to capture Rhodes and his armor. However, they managed to scan the War Machine armor, thus obtaining invaluable information, and now they have all they need to destroy Iron Man.

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And that's when we first see the Mandarin. I admit, at that time, I believed that the Mandarin is Ben Kingsley's character. Anyone would believe that. But as you can see, in this comic we see the Mandarin, but we can't see his face. For a reason.


Now, we saw what we saw in Iron Man 3, and that's when we had a really long discussion on the MCU Wiki about this whole Mandarin situation. Is Killian the Mandarin or not? Is he leader of the Ten Rings or not? Are the Ten Rings a real organization or just a facade like Slattery? Those were just some of the questions.


The first hint of an answer came from Drew Pearce himself. When someone asked him about the Ten Rings and their involvement in Iron Man 3, he said:As far as I'm concerned: real terrorist group. Current status unknown. Co-opted by Killian's think tank as Mandarin material.
https://***********/espinafrando/status/331461116662280193
Therefore, Killian isn't the leader od the Ten Rings. All those "Ten Rings terrorists" around Trevor Slattery in Iron Man 3 were just actors, just like Slattery.

But now came another problem. From what we saw in Iron Man 3, the Mandarin is just a fictional character portrayed by a drunken actor who's not trustworthy enough to hold a real gun. If that's the case, then who's the Mandarin in the Iron Man 3 Prelude comic?

As stated by Drew Pearce, the Ten Rings are a real terrorist group, therefore, they have a real leader. Now we had to find out who that leader is.

1) Killian - NOT, because Killian's men only co-opted the iconography of the Ten Rings for their little show. They had no contact with the real Ten Rings organization.
2) Trevor Slattery - HARDLY, as we saw what he is in Iron Man 3. A drunken, drug-addicted coward. For a time, I played with the idea that Slattery really is the Mandarin, the leader of the Ten Rings, and during this whole time he was using Killian to achieve some mysterious goals, while Killian believed that Slattery was just a drunken actor. In this scenario, Killian was a puppet, not Slattery. Now that would be a real plot twist. But I later rejected that idea.

And that gives us only the option number 3. The real Mandarin, the real leader of the Ten Rings, is someone else, and so far, he appears only in the Iron Man 3 Prelude comic. And that's why All Hail the King isn't a retcon. The real Mandarin was here this whole time, you just didn't see him, or should I say, you didn't know where to find him. And he's pissed on Tony Stark for ruining his operations, he's pissed on Slattery for stealing his name, and he wants to have revenge on both of them.

Wow, that's a lot of info I didn't know. Looks like I'll need to pick up all these prelude comics to catch up soon.

So even before IM3 came out, the prequel comics established that The Mandarin is the leader of the Ten Rings. Meaning Killian can't possibly have been the MCU version of The Mandarin, because that character existed before Killian was introduced to audiences and existed for a completely different purpose. So, yep, that solidifies it.

Thanks for the 411. The MCU has a lot of stuff going on I really wasn't aware of.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

^Loving that sig of yours.

Thank ye kindly! t:

 

[Krystal]

The fact that this is still such a heated point of discussion is just staggering, and a little funny. At this point, I would love it if AHTK became a series of one-shots, with the next one solely made to poke fun at and confuse the fans.

Best way to achieve this? Let the Mandarin that wants to kill Trevor turn out to be Killian by the conclusion. If this little 10 minute bit got everyone riled up as it has, I can't even imagine the firestorm that would erupt after a 'gotcha' like that.

Except it makes zero sense since Killian hired Trevor and wouldn't be mad at him for stealing the name.

And he clearly knew Trevor was incapable of standing up to interrogation if caught.

So zero reason for a convoluted revenge plan.

 

[Visualiza]

Except it makes zero sense since Killian hired Trevor and wouldn't be mad at him for stealing the name.

And he clearly knew Trevor was incapable of standing up to interrogation if caught.

So zero reason for a convoluted revenge plan.

I was kidding.

 

[jaqua99]

It's an epilogue to Trevor Slattery's story, nothing more. That's all it was intended to be. *Not* an epilogue to Tony Stark's story, obviously, since Tony still has lots of work to do.

AHTK is about real Mandarin/Ten Rings exacting revenge against Trevor Slattery for publicly impersonating them. That storyline begins, and ends, only in the one-shot. Again: there is absolutely no reason to look for Real Mandarin any time in the future, since he literally has no business with Tony Stark.

So yes, it's an epilogue. To Trevor Slattery's poor, misguided life.



AHTK isn't about compromising or retconning Shane Black's vision. Black's vision is still intact, because IM3 wasn't about The Mandarin. IM3 was about Killian. It was about That Man Behind the Curtain, the one you should pay no attention to. The "I AM THE MANDARIN!" line was pure metaphor, and in no way indicates that Killian ever crossed paths, stalked, manipulated or had reason to "seek revenge" against Tony Stark any time between 1999 and 2013. Nor does it ever indicate that Killian had any connection to the real Ten Rings.

Bottom line on Ten Rings and The Mandarin: at one time in the distant past, Ten Rings and The Mandarin were a force to be feared, like the real-world Assassins and their mythical leader, The Old Man of the Mountain. Over time, they fell into disarray, so that by the time IM3 opens, they're clearly just a bunch of Taliban running around in unconnected splinter cells led by worthless warlords like Raza.

Spoiler

What we see in AHTK is a core group of purists, who still believe in what Ten Rings once stood for. But there's absolutely no indication that even *they* (Jackson and the unseen Real Mandarin) are telling the truth. They may just be regular terrorists who *believe* they're preserving the "pure" heart of the original Ten Rings, but in essence are little more than nostalgia worshippers.

We see more of The Mandarin before phase 2 ends. That's my prediction, and I'm taking it to the grave.

 

[The Question]

We see more of The Mandarin before phase 2 ends. That's my prediction, and I'm taking it to the grave.

Even if it doesn't happen and phase 2 happens before you die?

 

[KDM1986]

Personally I liked this one shot. Ben Kingsley is such a great actor and the Trevor character is hilarious! I hope this isn't the end if the character but if it was what a exit.

 

[mkilban2]

We see more of The Mandarin before phase 2 ends. That's my prediction, and I'm taking it to the grave.

Nah, that's LokiD inside your mind

But I'm curious to see if anything touched upon in this one shot, (Real Mandarin, 10 ring resurgence) come into play in the next few Marvel outings. Putting Mandarin in AoU doesn't make much sense, maybe we can see something down the line in Iron Fist or Dr Strange since they're more mystical, if that's the take they're going for. Or if they just wait for an IM4 in phase 4 or whatever.

 

[Human Torch]

Again: For all we know, the events of Iron Man and Iron Man 2 could have been influenced by the real Mandarin, which means that he is still pissed at Tony. Furthermore, he might have some sort of past with Tony's father that we don't know about. That could be more of a reason.

 

[TheVileOne]

As much credit as I give to Favreau, he didn't seem to have much of a vision in how to bring forth the Mandarin character or how to open up Iron Man's world beyond the first movie. I got the sense from his interviews he didn't personally know quite how to tackle the matter in the MCU.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Especially since he flat out said that lol. Once again, for all the people saying "The Mandarin" was behind the events of the first two I ask...how? Pretty much the *only* potential reference (other than the 10 rings being an organization, alluding the his 10 Rings of power) to The Mandarin was a throwaway line in Iron Man. That's. About. It.

 

[Poni_Boy]

As much credit as I give to Favreau, he didn't seem to have much of a vision in how to bring forth the Mandarin character or how to open up Iron Man's world beyond the first movie. I got the sense from his interviews he didn't personally know quite how to tackle the matter in the MCU.

Good point, I can't argue with that at all. But that's why I like how Marvel handles their Easter Egg stuff. If they don't know exactly how or what to do with a character that interests them they lay out bread crumbs in hopes someone comes by down the line with a means to locate the end game.