Anyone else ticked that all their favourite Marvel characters are getting replaced?

I don't think just being an Inhuman means anything. Ms. Marvel is an Inhuman and wildly successful. Although I agree, if they try and tie Mosaic too hard into the ongoing Inhumans stuff, that'd be a strike against his comic. The non-royals are pretty lame.
 
New characters almost never catch on entirely by themselves, though. I guess this Mosaic guy will be the real test. That's an entirely new character with no associations to earlier characters or legacies. Somehow I don't see his series lasting very long, but maybe I'll be proven wrong. If not, though, can you really claim any kind of surprise when Marvel wants to link these new characters to established, time-tested legacies and concepts?

It's not enough to introduce a new character, watch it fail, and then keep right on publishing your line composed almost entirely of straight, white men. The higher-ups at Marvel clearly want to shift the dynamics of their stable of characters to more accurately reflect modern society and make their comics more welcoming to new readers. So long as the comics are still entertaining to me as a longtime reader--and they most certainly are, up to and including the one featuring the replacement for my favorite character of all time--I don't mind it.

Now, if Marvel issued a press release saying, effectively, "all our old characters are dead and never coming back," then I might be upset. But Original Recipe Thor is still around. Original Recipe Steve was always around, and just returned to officially calling himself Captain America again. Original Recipe Iron Man will probably still be around or return within a year or two. This is all just part of the cyclical nature of comics as a never-ending medium. The stories are intended to run literally forever, so I welcome a bit of change now and then.

Plus, Marvel publishes enough that, unless you really only like one specific character, you'll always have something that suits your tastes. I'm a huge Avengers fan but I couldn't stand Bendis' writing, so guess what? I just didn't read Avengers comics for a few years. Now Mark Waid's giving me great Avengers comics, so I'm reading them again. Just ditch what you don't like for the time being and try some new stuff until you find things you do. You can't stop Marvel from doing whatever they're gonna do, so why get angry over it?
best post
 
I don't think just being an Inhuman means anything. Ms. Marvel is an Inhuman and wildly successful. Although I agree, if they try and tie Mosaic too hard into the ongoing Inhumans stuff, that'd be a strike against his comic. The non-royals are pretty lame.

Yeah that's the thing, Ms Marvel caught fire because 1} She's relatable, unlike a millionaire celebrity NBA star, and 2} She was tied more to Capt Marvel (Carol Corps gave her a big boost) and now the Avengers than to the Inhumans (outside of her adorable relationship with Lockjaw).... oh, and 3} She's from muhf**kin New Jersey, obviously. :woot:
 
Saint,

That is not the main thing. There is, around all of this, an admission of not being able to bring new characters, male, female, transgender, alien, etc. and being succesfull at it. That Marvel thinks it "cool", or reasonable or whatever to replace Stark with a teenage Girl is ridiculous, if not also repetitive at this point. My 15yr. old daughter laughed out LOUD! "Oh no, This IS Ridiculous". So in their effort to please, feminists, race, gender equality, etc. they are actually breaking their product and ridiculizing themselves. Hopefully, they would come up with comic where Jesus is actually a girl!, Who came out of a virgin guy! Man, that, i would declare equality!


Cool. If you try hard enough you can probably find the one guy who's still mad James Rhodes was Iron Man, and you two can commiserate together.
 
I have no problem with temporarily replacing characters as long as they use that to gain attention to that new character and continue as a hero themself. For one Thor. We are getting Odinson back while keeping Jane Foster as Thor as well. Hope that continues. Also like the two Spidermen. I do wish Sam Wilson would at some point go back to being Falcon though I have a feeling Steve being somehow under Hydra's spell may have something to do with Sam being Cap still. Further thinking this is probably the best way to introduce new characters.
 
I think it's a tad rediculous to be predicting failure for Mosaic. How is a sports star celebrity any less relatable than billionaire playboys Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark?
 
The sad reality about the "why not create new characters" comment is the simple fact that no creator would be willing to create a new character for Marvel for fear of seeing their creation on the big screen making MILLIONS and they get nothing.

Hence why you're seeing "new creations" from Marvel writers appearing in Image comics or other indies
 
The sad reality about the "why not create new characters" comment is the simple fact that no creator would be willing to create a new character for Marvel for fear of seeing their creation on the big screen making MILLIONS and they get nothing.

Hence why you're seeing "new creations" from Marvel writers appearing in Image comics or other indies

that makes no sense especially since new characters are created all the time, and Riri Williams is one, that could end up on the big screen. Disney is very much on a diversity push and they've gone on record as saying that. We've seen that with the comics and its starting to bleed into the films as well. As others said, its easier to attach a character to an existing legacy. We are seeing minority characters (new and old) take on codenames and hero personas that are well known. That has nothing to do with writers being scared to create new characters bc they are scared they wont make money off of possible movie adaptations
 
I think it's a tad rediculous to be predicting failure for Mosaic. How is a sports star celebrity any less relatable than billionaire playboys Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark?

Those billionaire playboys were created 50-70 years ago
The characters that catch on the best these days tend to be more down to earth
 
Definitely sick of Marvel doing this. I've basically quit buying their comics because of it.
 
There is always something lost in this type of blind rush to "do good" by comic book organizations. The prime example for me is Thor. As a boy I grew up taller, stronger, and faster than almost anyone around me, and I strongly identified with Thor -- who quickly became my favourite superhero -- because he was always "holding back" and only using his power when it was justified. My Dad and I both enjoyed those stories and would talk about them a lot, without ever realizing just what it was that drew us to them. Yet modern day versions of those stories are now lost, and I don't see anything similar out there for boys to look up to, which is truly unfortunate. Femthor isn't anything like the character I once knew, and is all about "I've got the power, now everyone who kept me down will pay", which overlaps with a whole bunch of other female superheroes/protagonists out there, adding literally nothing, and only taking away.

Still, I know that there are many who will just ignore or attempt to ridicule my experiences and arguments, and will continually argue that nothing is lost, just because -- essentially -- they can't accept that other people are different than them. That's why this virtue signalling by companies is becoming recognized more and more as a faux-diversity that at its core actually despises otherness and differences. You can see it immediately in the way its most ardent defenders use arguments that are intentionally hurtful and derogatory, like "go and commiserate with your dudebros" and "male tears, amirite?". It's truly disgraceful the way this type of behaviour is defended and/or justified, and I'm not surprised that pushback is starting to happen against it in threads and discussions like this, and -- most importantly -- with people's wallets too.
 
The sad reality about the "why not create new characters" comment is the simple fact that no creator would be willing to create a new character for Marvel for fear of seeing their creation on the big screen making MILLIONS and they get nothing.

Hence why you're seeing "new creations" from Marvel writers appearing in Image comics or other indies

I first thought this then I remembered Squirrel Girl and Spider Gwen. So the way they have done it with Thor and now Iron Man is the way. I do wish they wouldn't do it as often but I can see why
 
I don't see anything similar out there for boys to look up to,
The comic book industry is literally overflowing with positive male role models.

Femthor isn't anything like the character I once knew, and is all about "I've got the power, now everyone who kept me down will pay",
I've read every issue of Jane's Thor and this sentiment is nowhere to be found. I don't know what you've been reading.

adding literally nothing, and only taking away.
In fact, what they're adding is are positive role models and entertainment for demographics typically underserved by the comic book industry--and for everybody else, too, if they're open to reading something from a different perspective.

they can't accept that other people are different than them.
That is definitely a problem, but not the way you mean it.
 
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The comic book industry is literally overflowing with positive male role models.

No they aren't. The only reason you can make such a grandiose claim (the industry is overflowing with pejorative male role models...there, FTFY) is because you don't understand Thor and what he means to men, or likely any other superhero either. You only see a piece of genitalia on a page and think that's all men are or want to be. As long as there's a piece of meat there, men should be happy! Wait, why aren't they happy? They must be such sad and pathetic pieces of meat to be unhappy! Let's make fun of them even more!

I've read every issue of Jane's Thor and this sentiment is nowhere to be found. I don't know what you've been reading.

Then show me the panels where she talks about growing up bigger and stronger than anyone else around her, with power that she has always had to worry about using the exact right amount of when dealing with a threat. Or is it that male and female biology are different, and that therefore their stories are inherently different? Women are on average 12 cm shorter than men, weigh about 12 kg less, and have 10% less muscle mass (IIRC). That makes a big difference in how they relate to "power" in real life and also in superhero stories, and there is no character I've ever found who reacts to power like Thor in the Bronze Age of Marvel comics, and there will never be a woman written who men can relate to in this way.

And it's a huge loss for culture, because first and foremost those comic books were enjoyable, and such honest expressions by their creators, and because of that they were truly universal in their appeal. People could read them so many different ways, and enjoy them without ever having to worry about the fact that the stories were "making a statement" or "starting an important conversation about blah blah blah". The comics did that naturally without shoving it down your throat, because they did it by making people smile, cheer, and want to talk with other people. Nowadays all the stories inspire in people is guilt. Well, that and a love of divisive identity politics and telling other people to "shut up because you're not progressive enough". And speaking of accusing people they're not good (progressive) enough...

In fact, what they're adding is are positive role models and entertainment for demographics typically underserved by the comic book industry--and for everybody else, too, if they're open to reading something from a different perspective.

sigh

Too bad for me I guess. I find enjoyment in stories about aliens, completely genderless machines learning to feel, people both old and young, inanimate objects with no seemingly human features, yet I hear this "open your mind" inanity all the time, just because my tastes don't run towards dishonest pandering. Yes, that's all that tokenism like this is, and what it will be recognized as in a few decades (or years if we're lucky), since it doesn't come from an honest place of a truly creative person expressing themselves, and that's why so many are voicing what they want to see, both with their words and with(holding) their money.
 
No they aren't. The only reason you can make such a grandiose claim (the industry is overflowing with pejorative male role models...there, FTFY) is because you don't understand Thor and what he means to men, or likely any other superhero either. You only see a piece of genitalia on a page and think that's all men are or want to be. As long as there's a piece of meat there, men should be happy! Wait, why aren't they happy? They must be such sad and pathetic pieces of meat to be unhappy! Let's make fun of them even more!
This crude, bargain basement analysis of superheroes and my experience with them is so woefully malformed and simplistic that it defies response.

Then show me the panels where she talks about growing up bigger and stronger than anyone else around her, with power that she has always had to worry about using the exact right amount of when dealing with a threat.
I didn't argue that they were telling the same stories as they have with Thor Odinson; I said your characterization of Jane was not accurate. In fact, that they are not telling the exact same stories is precisely why books like this have value. A influx of new stories (that coexist quite comfortably with the old) serves only to enrich the artform.

And it's a huge loss for culture, because first and foremost those comic books were enjoyable, and such honest expressions by their creators, and because of that they were truly universal in their appeal. People could read them so many different ways, and enjoy them without ever having to worry about the fact that the stories were "making a statement" or "starting an important conversation about blah blah blah". The comics did that naturally without shoving it down your throat, because they did it by making people smile, cheer, and want to talk with other people. Nowadays all the stories inspire in people is guilt. Well, that and a love of divisive identity politics and telling other people to "shut up because you're not progressive enough". And speaking of accusing people they're not good (progressive) enough...
You are describing an imaginary caricature of these books.

dishonest pandering.
When it's not the story you want, it's pandering. I understand.
 
Comic books have been making important statements and "starting conversations" for decades, it's incredibly hypocritical to complain about it now. Do you hate Grell's Green Arrow as well?

But yeah, I basically just second everything Saint said.
 
Comic books have been making important statements and "starting conversations" for decades, it's incredibly hypocritical to complain about it now. Do you hate Grell's Green Arrow as well?

But yeah, I basically just second everything Saint said.

Let's not forget Stan Lee's story about drug use, which he defied the CCA to publish because he thought it was important.
 
that makes no sense especially since new characters are created all the time, and Riri Williams is one, that could end up on the big screen.

Yes... Two bit characters are created all the time.
I meant big time new heroes...
You know, like in the 60's, 70's & 80's and even in the 90's when NEW heroes and villains were created to expand the Marvel U.
Use your head.

Kamala Khan is new, but is using the monicker of an established character.
And the fact they're making a big deal of this Mosaic character further validates my original statement.

Feel free to nitpick this post because I didn't hold your hand throughout my words...
Thanks for playing.
 
I didn't argue that they were telling the same stories as they have with Thor Odinson; I said your characterization of Jane was not accurate. In fact, that they are not telling the exact same stories is precisely why books like this have value.

Well, you were the one who confidently claimed that nothing about the previous Thor character was lost, and therefore no one has any reason to miss anything. Do you now retract that claim?

Oh, and here's a simple checklist on deciding if portrayals of males is positive or pejorative, since you avoided having to support your overly broad claim that we're "overflowing with positivity!" with actual evidence:

1. Does any male sacrifice himself (through working a job, or risking/giving up his life) for a woman or family, which portrays him as disposable?
2. Is a father shown as absent/distant, stupid/incompetent with his children?
3. Are criminals more than 50% males?

You'll find almost no stories that pass all three of these, yet strangely no one wonders why there is suddenly so much pushback happening, or why there's a growing epidemic of male suicide (close to 10 times more men take their own lives), etc.

I would be more than happy if everyone could lobby for the stories they wanted. You could give feedback and support the creation of strong female characters whose stories constantly show that women can be even better than men at anything, like femThor or Ellen Ripley or Peggy Carter or Supergirl (though some of those don't stand out from each other enough unfortunately), and everyone else could encourage and support the creative ideas they wanted to see, and some that perhaps even went (gasp!) in a new and different direction.

Honestly though, considering how all "unwanted" attempts (i.e. not "progressive" enough) to create stories in comics (and other media) are currently attacked by silencing, shaming, and blocking tactics, I know that most who claim to want to "improve" culture don't actually want diversity (at least they don't want intellectual or political diversity, though they're all for superficial diversity, which is the exact definition of pandering because it has no depth and is so forgetful). But bad...is bad. After Earth wasn't bad because of racism. Pixels wasn't bad because of anti-semitism. Some things just suck, no matter what social narrative you try to push around their lazy, incoherent, derivative, insultingly stupid, boring, insubstantive, and meager offerings.

When a comic offends someone and the publisher actually stands up for the original vision of their writers and creators, then and only then will I consider not using the word pandering. It has nothing to do with taste in art; only integrity.
 
Yes... Two bit characters are created all the time.
I meant big time new heroes...
You know, like in the 60's, 70's & 80's and even in the 90's when NEW heroes and villains were created to expand the Marvel U.
Use your head.

Kamala Khan is new, but is using the monicker of an established character.
And the fact they're making a big deal of this Mosaic character further validates my original statement.

Feel free to nitpick this post because I didn't hold your hand throughout my words...
Thanks for playing.

wow, someone's being a bit sassy.
 
"There’s an overwhelming attitude in these communities that they are being besieged by women and minorities, and that the culture, having spent so long catering to the needs of straight, white men, is being slowly stolen from them."

god forbid.:whatever:
 
Well, you were the one who confidently claimed that nothing about the previous Thor character was lost
I actually didn't say that, but the "previous" Thor still exists, and will have an ongoing series starting in the fall. Somebody will always lose something they like when characters change, or grow, or diminish, or their circumstances change, because what's important about a character is different for everyone. Marvel could preserve Thor in amber, completely unchanging forever, I suppose. I wouldn't buy that book; I like my fiction to have content.

As for the rest of your post... I just can't factor a sincere response to it. I'm sorry that your specific expectations are not being pandered to in whatever book you think should be pandering to them, and that you, without any apparent irony, feel that your demographic is not being fairly represented according to your arbitrary standards.

When a comic offends someone and the publisher actually stands up for the original vision of their writers and creators, then and only then will I consider not using the word pandering. It has nothing to do with taste in art; only integrity.
Cool! You must really like how Marvel is currently standing up for the vision of creators like Jason Aaron, even though some people are (hilariously) offended by concepts like that of Jane Foster's Thor. Glad to see that's not pandering, by your definition.
 
Cool. If you try hard enough you can probably find the one guy who's still mad James Rhodes was Iron Man, and you two can commiserate together.

If you do not get that that is not the point...
 
that makes no sense especially since new characters are created all the time, and Riri Williams is one, that could end up on the big screen. Disney is very much on a diversity push and they've gone on record as saying that. We've seen that with the comics and its starting to bleed into the films as well. As others said, its easier to attach a character to an existing legacy. We are seeing minority characters (new and old) take on codenames and hero personas that are well known. That has nothing to do with writers being scared to create new characters bc they are scared they wont make money off of possible movie adaptations
Hey, Saint:

This is it.

And it's ********, not creativity. What's next, some quota, a Thor alterego where he becomes a muslim on a wheelchair who can not walk because he was trhown from some building by terrorists for being gay? I am all for new characters, not replacing the established for the sake of quotas!
 

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