Anyone else ticked that all their favourite Marvel characters are getting replaced?

[Zant]

Marvel trying to bury the Xmen is not helping. Some of the best Marvel characters are mutants. So much potential for great story telling. They underestimate the dedicated X men fan base. Instead they try to force stuff like the Inhumans, Ms Marvel and Gweenpool down our throats.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Ms. Marvel has been one of the best and most entertaining comics on the shelf. Marvel hasn't been "shoving it down throats", people have been happily eating it up because it's really good.

 

[BoredGuy]

Yeah Ms Marvel is a bad example, doesn't really help your point there, Zant

Inhumans though is never happening, not to the X-Men level
And Gwenpool is the dumbest f***ing thing I've heard in 25 years of comic reading
(and I was reading X-Men throughout the late 90's early 2000's, so that's saying a lot)

 

[Mad Ones]

Gwenpool has an audience though, and readers are not homogenous so not everything is going to appeal to everyone. And this is coming from someone who never got Deadpool's appeal.

There's no excusing what Marvel is doing to the X-men though.

 

[YJ1]

Most true Marvel fans have dropped so many of their books. This new era PC horsecrap Marvel tried to draw the PC generation and all they did was alienate long time fans. So glad they have to reap the results now.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-sales-top-marvel-in-july-thanks-to-rebirths-strong-performance

DC is #1 and I'm one Marvel fan that's glad.

I used to read around 25-30 Marvel books a month. I'm down to a hand full and think even those few are pretty bad.

Marvel publishing has never been this lost. The books are even crapping on the legend of Captain America. I'm not even talking about that "Hydra" crap I'm talking the far left wing writing in general. The Cap books are now an official disgrace. A true insult to REAL Marvel fans across the board.

Apparently they no longer have any use or any interest in keeping long time fans. They want us all to go away and they are slowing getting their wish.

 

[raimar]

I see this thread is still stumbling along in all its stupidity. How many pages of complaints that white men aren't getting pandered to enough can it make it to?

Ahh, finally showing your true colors! Sorry, i'm not white. Love your strawmanning. Should i say, strawomanning? If you don't like the discussion...

 

[raimar]

Comics are sorely in need of more diversity and better representation of minority characters. Marvel is making very admirable efforts to remedy this. And I dig most of the legacy characters Marvel have presented us with so far. But it's starting to get annoying this has become their sole mode of introducing minority characters. It's starting to feel cheap and lacking creativity. And worst of all, these minority characters don't get to define their own legacy, rather they are riding on the coat tail legacies of white male characters. Hell, the majority of these minority characters will be temporary. Tony Stark will be back as Iron Man. Steve Rogers is already back as Captain America. Odinson will be back as Thor. Sure, their replacements will still be around in some capacity, but they will always be in the shadow of their white male predecessor because their introduction lacked the creativity to be their own unique character. They will merely end up being defined as "the black Captain America" or "the lady Thor".

Have good creators create good and interesting characters, bring in minority creators who have been greatly missing from creative teams. Introduce these characters in established books and build them to be interesting characters which readers grow to have interest in. Give them important roles in the universe and then finally launch their own title. Yes, this takes time and doesn't produce the immediate sales of cheaply passing to them some already established mantle. But this route has longevity and respectability and allows minority characters to build their own lasting legacy.

Damn well said. I have, (admittedly), been trying to say the same damn thing (my writing skills have gone to hell). These SJW think they know what i need better than me. And they can not take a punch. It's ridiculous.

 

[raimar]

DC and Marvel are not in the business of creating and promoting new characters, which is exactly why their strategies are the way they are. Their characters are iconic with legacies that drive their business. New characters taking up old mantles is the best of both worlds, I imagine they think.

i hope you realize you are starting to sound like me, LOL, except for last sentence.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Damn well said. I have, (admittedly), been trying to say the same damn thing (my writing skills have gone to hell). These SJW think they know what i need better than me. And they can not take a punch. It's ridiculous.

I dunno why you need to blame social justice warriors for any of this. Like I said, comics are awful when it comes to representation of minorities. It's a problem in media in general. That is something social justice warriors are fighting for, and they are absolutely right to do it. If marvel's response is to recognize the problem and want to do their part to rectify it by introducing more diversity into their line up, then that is the right thing to do. If you have a problem with how marvel is going about accomplishing that goal, then your problem is with marvel, not the social justice warriors.

So far, I really dig almost all the characters who have taken over legacy mantles. My problem is that tactic being marvel's sole route for accomplishing diversity, it's starting to feel cheap and I believe they have the creative talent to do better. But if I need to choose between a black female iron man or antiquated racist representation...i'll take black female iron man all day.

If you took anything other than that from my original post, then you should reconsider what you are agreeing with.

Also, this "REAL fan" talk is a bunch of b.s. Someone who picked up their first comic today and fell in love with Jane Foster Thor and prefers her over Odinson Thor is no less a real fan than anyone else.

 

[Mad Ones]

Ahh, finally showing your true colors! Sorry, i'm not white. Love your strawmanning. Should i say, strawomanning? If you don't like the discussion...

Where did I say you were white?

i hope you realize you are starting to sound like me, LOL, except for last sentence.

Except I don't think its a problem and I'm not up-in-arms about boogeymen "SJW" and evil "PC" culture that dares include more people.

 

[def28]

Marvels schtick of #1's and replacing characters is definitely getting tired, and it's gonna show more and more through sales as time goes on.

Right now adding diversity by replacing well known characters is still the main thing that gets them news and social media talking. That stirs up the comic community almost every time along with significantly altering characters. Eventually people are gonna stop caring, and they will switch to something new. They should be definitely creating new characters and not relying on controversy, but when they can't even sell high numbers on books like Vision or Black Widow (which are far better then the majority of their titles) they will rely on that strategy.

As been said these characters will convert back. It's not the diversity angle that gets people up in arms, it's the replacing of characters for that reason. Take that equation out and you won't see many headlines which means less free marketing for Marvel. But Marvel gotta realize they need diverse characters who can sell on their own eventually. Without relying on the Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk or Spider-Man name attached to their books. If they can't sell otherwise then that main title will be all that ever sells for them.

Good to see Black Panther selling well now. For the most part this has been the Star Wars, Peter Parker and Deapdool show for Marvel the past year. As they are the only ones who can hold high numbers with multiple books for quite sometime.

Oh and we need that friggin Blade book already! What the **** happened there? Having his daughter replace him made perfect sense and Tim Seeley is great with horror. That book is way past due. Bring back Runaways as well! It's been like 10 years. It's one of the most diverse teams out there. Ya got some options Marvel.

 

[random_havoc]

With a Runaways tv show now on the way it's only a matter of time for the comic tip come back

 

[Motown Marvel]

I hope everyone who's been wanting more diversity at marvel is reading "Nighthawk". Because that book has been super rad. Along with "Power Man and Iron Fist".

 

[CaptainWagner]

Marvel publishing has never been this lost. The books are even crapping on the legend of Captain America. I'm not even talking about that "Hydra" crap I'm talking the far left wing writing in general. The Cap books are now an official disgrace. A true insult to REAL Marvel fans across the board.

Apparently they no longer have any use or any interest in keeping long time fans. They want us all to go away and they are slowing getting their wish.

Huh. It's good to know I'm not a "real Marvel fan". Thanks!

 

[Gee]

Oh and we need that friggin Blade book already! What the **** happened there? Having his daughter replace him made perfect sense and Tim Seeley is great with horror. That book is way past due.

Book is probably dead. Seeley has recently signed an exclusive deal at DC.

 

[def28]

Book is probably dead. Seeley has recently signed an exclusive deal at DC.

Aw man. That sucks. I've had that book on my pull forever waiting for a release. Was really looking forward to it.

With a Runaways tv show now on the way it's only a matter of time for the comic tip come back

Hope so, it was nice having a few of them in the Avenger Arena and Academy books. But have been really waiting for them to all interact with eachother again. Been difficult to figure out who's in what book.

I hope everyone who's been wanting more diversity at marvel is reading "Nighthawk". Because that book has been super rad. Along with "Power Man and Iron Fist".

Yeah, I need to check out Nighthawk. Sadly it hasn't been selling too well.

 

[RoryTate]

How many pages of complaints that white men...

I don't read the thread for a few days, and look where it descends: attempts at nerd- and gender-shaming, along with pejorative stereotypes based solely on skin colour being espoused by those who shout "we want more diversity". It's like clockwork when this subject comes up. Their hateful prejudices become clear for everyone to see.

Look, either (pre)judging people by their appearance is wrong (my position), or it's perfectly fine to dismiss someone's opinion solely because they're male, or white, or whatever it is you despise so much. Honestly, I've had worse things said about me by better people, but I do wish the time I spent trying to write logical and coherent arguments was worth it, because once this happens -- and it always does -- the opposition does a better job of convincing people of my position than I ever could.

 

[Tao43]

So there is no trying to determine my race, gender, age etc, let me preface this post with that info. I am a white male in my early 40's and have been reading comics since the late 70's/early 80's. My mother introduced me to them to get me to read as I had little interest in "See Spot Run." They also influenced me in picking up a pencil and drawing.
I have no problem with "legacy" characters. I have no problem with minority characters. Black Panther is one of my favorites as is Power Man. Blade is another favorite character of mine. I had no issue with Captain Marvel (Monica) leading the Avengers. In fact, that was one my favorite Avengers eras. I thought Falcon becoming Captain America was a different and cool idea. I did think it was a little too soon after Bucky Cap though.
My problem with some of the legacy characters is the "Mary Sue" phenomenon. Thor is the best example of this. I have read Thor for as long as I have been reading comics. I have been through Red Norvill Thor, Thor fighting Odin's eyeball, Beta Ray Bill, all the way to current Thor. Thor being unworthy has happened before. Him losing Mjolnir has happened before. My problem with Jane Thor is she immediately picks up Mjolnir and is automatically better at using it than Thor Odinson ever was. He even said so in the book that "Mjolnir never sang like that to him" or some such nonsense. She goes toe to toe with Odin like its no big deal whereas Odinson has gotten pounded by Odin numerous times. Odinson has died countless times and Jane seems more powerful than he has ever been and I have read Thor doing some amazing stuff before.
From what I have read about Riri, she is already going to be a better Iron Man than Tony.
That is my biggest issue with some of these legacy characters. They don't struggle with learning their powers, they just strap on the armor or pick up the hammer and "boom" they are the best there ever was. That is annoying to long time readers of these characters who have watched/read them go through their trials and tribulations and new discoveries of what they can do.

 

[Mad Ones]

I don't read the thread for a few days, and look where it descends: attempts at nerd- and gender-shaming, along with pejorative stereotypes based solely on skin colour being espoused by those who shout "we want more diversity". It's like clockwork when this subject comes up. Their hateful prejudices become clear for everyone to see.

Look, either (pre)judging people by their appearance is wrong (my position), or it's perfectly fine to dismiss someone's opinion solely because they're male, or white, or whatever it is you despise so much. Honestly, I've had worse things said about me by better people, but I do wish the time I spent trying to write logical and coherent arguments was worth it, because once this happens -- and it always does -- the opposition does a better job of convincing people of my position than I ever could.

I haven't said anything to you, but it seems I've become quite the SJW boogeyman in your head. Boo!

It's funny how the people who don't like being called racist or sexist always respond by shouting "I'm not, you are!" without a signal acknowledgement about how power actually works.

 

[RoryTate]

It's funny how the people who don't like being called racist or sexist always respond by shouting "I'm not, you are!" without a signal acknowledgement about how power actually works.

No, I already knew enough to not accuse you of being a racist or a sexist, because when your skin colour makes you a racist and your gender automatically makes you sexist, those accusations are rendered meaningless and superfluous, and because I knew you'd just redefine the words differently to suit your own needs anyway. Yes, you're that predictable. Re-read what I wrote, or just let me repeat myself. Your words are prejudiced against whites. Your words are prejudiced against males. You attribute only negative, pejorative traits to any and all members of those groups. I never used the word racist or sexist once, because too many people have made them essentially meaningless pseudowords at this time. Luckily, language constantly adapts and evolves. and thus it has many different ways to communicate the fact that you're really just a sad, hateful bigot.

 

[Mad Ones]

I'd suggest working out your issues off of the internet.

 

[RoryTate]

I'd suggest working out your issues off of the internet.

After attempting to nerd-shame on a comic book forum, we get an attempt to online-shame someone...on the internet. This is absolutely hilarious...please don't stop! Self-awareness levels...zero.

 

[Mad Ones]

You realize that you're the only one your posts makes sense to right? It's the reason everyone abandoned this thread when you took it over.

 

[YJ1]

This article pretty much sums up perfectly why old school Marvel fans are angry and why we are disillusioned to the point of dropping most of our Marvel titles. We've simply stopped reading the books for the first time in decades...

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/07/07/marvel-social-justice-insanity/

“We’re seeing the worst falloff of Marvel and DC sales in the store’s 38-year history,” complained one comic book store owner in an industry forum. “Both companies are losing established readers who no longer feel that the company’s output reflects the sort of comics they enjoy.

“For the first time in store history, yesterday’s Marvel FOCs saw us ordering single digits on more than half of the line items in the Marvel section.”

Marvel’s readership is souring particularly fast. With the exception of some big-name comics whose characters have, thus far, escaped the SJW purge of anything remotely resembling a straight white male, Marvel readers are simply going elsewhere.

Marvel have radically altered their classic characters by giving in to calls for more diversity, leading to a black Spiderman and female Thor. This has effectively turned the company into a multi-billion dollar feminist zine publisher.

Here’s a newsflash for Marvel: race-baiters and gender warriors who complain endlessly about the “lack of diversity” in comic books don’t buy comic books. They’re interested in identity politics, not fun.

When your customers — lifelong comic fans — pick up the latest issue to find a smorgasbord of irrelevant, hectoring social and pop culture commentary, they probably won’t buy the next issue. Not because they’re sexists and racists, but because the stuff you are publishing sucks.

People read comic books to escape the real world, and readers have had enough of being called privileged cis white men, or misogynist MRAs, in the real world, let alone the one place they get to escape it. If you want to put these things in your comic books, go ahead, but readers are just going to stop buying them.

Marvel is stuck between appeasing gobby SJWs, making SJWs mad by appeasing them and then attempting to fix an even messier situation than just giving the blue-haired elephants a much need middle-finger. They’re not too worried now, given the success of superhero movies at the box office.

But while the company is making bank from Hollywood, hoping that audiences remain enthusiastic about increasingly desperate franchise crossovers, there’s trouble on the horizon, not just for the studio’s core intellectual property, but the creative integrity of its work, too. Serves them right.

Charlie Nash

"When your customers — lifelong comic fans — pick up the latest issue to find a smorgasbord of irrelevant, hectoring social and pop culture commentary, they probably won’t buy the next issue. Not because they’re sexists and racists, but because the stuff you are publishing sucks."

 

[Sithborg]

Yup, breitbart is the perfect place to sum up the rotten core you can find in any fandom.