The Force Awakens Anyone glad it's not written by Lucas?

[BatLobster]

Jappor snippet/locket, potato/potahto.

But yes, the OT had plenty of big picture payoff. I was only pointing out that there were a few more detailed things sprinkled into the PT, again just by nature of the general arc being mapped out and it being more of a game of dominos. On the other hand, each movie of the OT feels like it's own movie, which I like. Obviously the OT is vastly superior, but I do think it's fair to point out that the PT does have consistent elements, themes and characters that carry through and reach a payoff by the third film. I don't think Lucas was without any ideas. I think when he wrote TPM that's where he broke a lot of where Ep. III was going, which is why it's what took him the longest to write. Clones is where I think he was really just improvising a lot.

Anyway, I don't see it as a "problem" really what Star Wars' influences are. All art has influences. Star Wars just happens to wear its influences on its sleeve. The way Lucas synthesized everything together is what made Star Wars the delicious pop mythology stew it is.

 

[Marvolo]

CBS - George Lucas on his decision to "break up" with "Star Wars"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-lucas-on-why-he-is-done-directing-star-wars/

I was glad that Lucas wouldnt be involved but after reading his recent comments such as him saying...

"The issue was ultimately, they looked at the stories and they said, 'We want to make something for the fans,'" Lucas said. "People don't actually realize it's actually a soap opera...

If he thinks star wars is a soap opera then Im ecstatic that Lucas isnt remotely involved.

 

[BatLobster]

He's not wrong about it being a soap opera though. The most iconic moment in the franchise is the bad guy revealing that he's the good guy's father. A lot of what the series became after the revelation is built on melodrama.

Of course, Star Wars is many things. So it's not just a soap opera.

Anyway, I think the soap opera-ish elements and the family story will certainly be continuing in the new movies, so I think what we're hearing now is just some sour grapes that they didn't go in his exact direction. I highly doubt that the essence of SW has been lost. Certainly doesn't seem like it based on everything we're seeing and hearing.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Jappor snippet/locket, potato/potahto.

But yes, the OT had plenty of big picture payoff. I was only pointing out that there were a few more detailed things sprinkled into the PT, again just by nature of the general arc being mapped out and it being more of a game of dominos. On the other hand, each movie of the OT feels like it's own movie, which I like. Obviously the OT is vastly superior, but I do think it's fair to point out that the PT does have consistent elements, themes and characters that carry through and reach a payoff by the third film. I don't think Lucas was without any ideas. I think when he wrote TPM that's where he broke a lot of where Ep. III was going, which is why it's what took him the longest to write. Clones is where I think he was really just improvising a lot.

Anyway, I don't see it as a "problem" really what Star Wars' influences are. All art has influences. Star Wars just happens to wear its influences on its sleeve. The way Lucas synthesized everything together is what made Star Wars the delicious pop mythology stew it is.

The problem I have, is a lot of that doesn't really connect together, outside of Anakin in that room in RotS imo. Like, it would have been easy to use that item as a wedding ring of sorts, giving it meaning. Instead, it almost feels tossed into Padme's casket to. "tie it together". How did it never come up in AotC? I will always remember that Ewan had to tell Lucas that he had to grab Anakin's lightsaber.

I have no problem with Star Wars influences. The problem was that Lucas kind of ran out of steam with the mining around RotJ, and showed he didn't have much left from the PT, imo.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He's not wrong about it being a soap opera though. The most iconic moment in the franchise is the bad guy revealing that he's the good guy's father. A lot of what the series became after the revelation is built on melodrama.

Of course, Star Wars is many things. So it's not just a soap opera.

Anyway, I think the soap opera-ish elements and the family story will certainly be continuing in the new movies, so I think what we're hearing now is just some sour grapes that they didn't go in his exact direction. I highly doubt that the essence of SW has been lost. Certainly doesn't seem like it based on everything we're seeing and hearing.

That doesn't really make it "soap opera" though, that is very myth based stuff right there. It is Hercules. Luke, Vader and the Emperor in the Throne Room was not a big soap opera, it was classic mythological battle of ideals and good v. evil.

Heck the seduction of Luke was more Faust then soap opera. This is one of the major problems with how Anakin/Padme plays out for me. Very easy to not make it a soap opera, but Lucas just didn't pull it off.

 

[BatLobster]

Well, that is the thing. People are just taking the negative connotation of soap opera as if to say Lucas is saying Star Wars is just Days of Our Lives or something. Being a serialized story with melodramatic familial elements isn't inherently bad. And yes, it's a mythological good vs. evil tale too, of course. That's why it's also a space opera. It's a space opera with a strong emphasis on family. But let's not forget that the term "space opera" exists in the first place as a riff on soap opera. It's hard to just sum up Star Wars with one catch-all phrase though, so I would agree that calling it "just" a soap opera is reductive. But that element is most definitely there.

If I had to sum it up though I'd say it's an epic that pays homage to serialized storytelling, but is really weaving a grander story with each chapter.

 

[Drizzle]

CBS - George Lucas on his decision to "break up" with "Star Wars"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-lucas-on-why-he-is-done-directing-star-wars/

I'm having visions of Lucas just laying in bed listening to Adele and crying.

 

[Brother Jack]

Sounds like there is a little bitterness behind what Lucas is saying. Which is kind of sad but it's a situation he ultimately created himself.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, that is the thing. People are just taking the negative connotation of soap opera as if to say Lucas is saying Star Wars is just Days of Our Lives or something. Being a serialized story with melodramatic familial elements isn't inherently bad. And yes, it's a mythological good vs. evil tale too, of course. That's why it's also a space opera. It's a space opera with a strong emphasis on family. But let's not forget that the term "space opera" exists in the first place as a riff on soap opera. It's hard to just sum up Star Wars with one catch-all phrase though, so I would agree that calling it "just" a soap opera is reductive. But that element is most definitely there.

If I had to sum it up though I'd say it's an epic that pays homage to serialized storytelling, but is really weaving a grander story with each chapter.

I think if you talked to 100 random people on the street, none of them would name Soap Opera in their top 5 ways of describing Star Wars.

 

[BatLobster]

A lot of those 100 people would probably inaccurately characterize it as science fiction too though.

I don't even think I would describe it as a soap opera if I was randomly asked, but there are some roots there when you consider where the term "space opera" came from in the first place. It was a derogatory term for a tacky genre.

Star Wars has always had an element of trying to elevate "B" influences, so that's why I'm okay with the term being associated with it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

A lot of those 100 people would probably inaccurately characterize it as science fiction too though.

It is science fiction, under the sub-genre of Space Opera. You called it a Space Opera yourself. It also qualifies as Science Fantasy.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, but calling Star Wars Sci-Fi is kind of like calling Metallica a "rock" band. Technically it's true, since metal is a sub-genre of rock, but it doesn't really do an adequate job in describing them. Unless you're talking about the Load albums.

I tend to go with Science Fantasy myself for SW.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, but calling Star Wars Sci-Fi is kind of like calling Metallica a "rock" band. Technically it's true, since metal is a sub-genre of rock, but it doesn't really do an adequate job in describing them. Unless you're talking about the Load albums.

I tend to go with Science Fantasy myself for SW.

This does not change that calling it sci-fi is accurate, so you can't claim that people who say it is are wrong. They are technically right, which means they are right.

 

[Thoix]

Star Wars to me has always felt like a fantasy film series set in a sci-fi setting.

 

[Gianakin_]

Star Wars to me has always felt like a fantasy film series set in a sci-fi setting.

Sci-fi or space setting, but that's exactly what SW is.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Space Fantasy is still sci-fi.

 

[MaceB]

I don't think the semantics of what constitutes a "soap opera" is what's important. GL is right - the originals were all about the characters and the family connections between those characters.
But the fact that GL can say that he's leaving, because "it's not all about spaceships," when he just gave us 3 films of shallow, 2 dimensional space war porn.... shows a true lack of self awareness on his part. He's blaming the fans for the fact that he can't write authentic characters. As if "I hate sand" is somehow justified, because didn't you all know it was a soap opera? Please.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Star Wars has always been Space Opera or Science Fantasy more than Science Fiction, which usually implies real science to back things up.

Star Wars is also a Soap Opera. In this sense, Lucas is correct. And there's nothing wrong with that. Spider-Man is also a Soap Opera.

I do feel bad for Lucas. I have never seen such a successful and beloved fictional property where the fans have been so vicious to its creator.

If you don't like some of the films, that's fine. But some of the personal attacks on George and his family are just senseless (not necessarily saying anyone here but the public/internet in general).

The thing that seems weird that on the poster, George has no credit. I don't care if not one of his ideas made it to this film, I would expect at least a "Based on characters & situations created by..." credit.


Also, I have to say, I haven't posted much here, because I've been avoiding spoilers, but I am very happy that you guys on the main thread, despite being called a Spoiler thread, are still using Spoiler tags. Thanks!

 

[BatLobster]

This does not change that calling it sci-fi is accurate, so you can't claim that people who say it is are wrong. They are technically right, which means they are right.

Some right answers are more right than others though. So I'll claim they're...not "wrong", but certainly not as accurate as they could be- thank you very much.

And with that, I retire from this skirmish of semantics.

 

[Golgo-13]

As a story outliner Lucas is great, he just needs to have other people flesh out, re-write and/or write his screenplay for him.

 

[MaceB]

As a story outliner, Lucas WAS great. If you haven't made a good story in 20+ years, then you don't get to have that revered status anymore.

 

[MurkeNyou]

Why is George Lucas doing the "Ex Wife talked to your sister" thing? Doesn't he have an NDA with Disney? This is kind of a monkey wrench in the super positive media push they are doing right now.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I do feel bad for Lucas. I have never seen such a successful and beloved fictional property where the fans have been so vicious to its creator.

Those fans have made him a very rich person. And he has repeatedly thumbed his nose at them, whether it's with constant double dipping on home video or the ridiculous alterations to the original trilogy.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Those fans have made him a very rich person. And he has repeatedly thumbed his nose at them, whether it's with constant double dipping on home video or the ridiculous alterations to the original trilogy.

Yeah, they did, but it's not like people just give him money. He created the Star Wars universe.

EVERY studio double dips films. No one is forcing anyone to buy something they already own. And the changes he makes are not to piss off fans (even if that is what he ends up doing).

And it's still not a reason for the personal attacks.

 

[MaceB]

No one is forcing anyone to buy something they already own.

If you essentially re-do a previous film, alter subtle parts of the story, and then discontinue the previous versions, making them impossible to purchase... then you may not be forcing anyone to buy the new product, but you're definitely doing the next best thing.

I'm not calling GL a bad person, just a horrible director/writer/creative. There's a difference there; one is fair game, the other is not. One is warrented, the other is not.