Are we really any different from sports fanatics?

[Heretic]

Optimus, you mentioned having several Tom Brady jerseys...why is that? I'm willing to bet that you have them because he's a good player on a team you like.

Since you claim that you like the PEOPLE, not the statistics...please tell me how many minor league jerseys you own...or perhaps jerseys of mediocre players that are very charitable outside of sports. After all...it's the people, not the stats, right? Clearly you have PLENTY of merchandise from guys who are awful players, and have terrible stats...but are good, interesting people.

 

[BlackLantern]

I volunteer and support my local roller derby team....its a pay to play league so the girls pay monthly dues to keep the league solvent....they aren't professionals but I enjoy the game and the people are great

I have a hoodie and a tshirt from the league

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Optimus, you mentioned having several Tom Brady jerseys...why is that? I'm willing to bet that you have them because he's a good player on a team you like.

Since you claim that you like the PEOPLE, not the statistics...please tell me how many minor league jerseys you own...or perhaps jerseys of mediocre players that are very charitable outside of sports. After all...it's the people, not the stats, right? Clearly you have PLENTY of merchandise from guys who are awful players, and have terrible stats...but are good, interesting people.

Yes, I like him cause he plays well, but I like him as a person. I like Steve Grogan too, he sucks. I also am a Red Sox fan, a team that didn't win a series for 86 years. I'll also go see minor league games during the baseball season as well.

 

[BlackLantern]

more annoying

Zakk Wylde fans or Insane Clown Posse fans?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Heretic, you honestly must be a complete outsider to sports fandom if you think sports fans don't support minor league players, or don't appreciate athletes personally. A lot of people like players for more than their stats. You ever wonder why there is so much talk about intangibles in sports?

 

[CelticPredator]

Play sports all day - become strong, fast, and healthy.

Read comic books all day- become fat, lazy, and die.

Hmm.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Play sports all day - become strong, fast, and healthy.

Read comic books all day- become fat, lazy, and die.

Hmm.

That only applies if being fast and strong means anything to you. You can be healthy and not play sports.

 

[Heretic]

Play sports all day - become strong, fast, and healthy.

Read comic books all day- become fat, lazy, and die.

Hmm.

I'm talking sports FANS...not athletes.

So it's READ ABOUT/WATCH sports all day
or READ comics all day.

Neither seems more physically beneficial.

 

[RockSP]

I'm talking sports FANS...not athletes.

So it's READ ABOUT/WATCH sports all day
or READ comics all day.

Neither seems more physically beneficial.

Heh. Pretty much. Plenty of fat lazy sports fans out there.

 

[Heretic]

more annoying

Zakk Wylde fans or Insane Clown Posse fans?

ICP fans...there is no band out there with fans as *****ey as ICP

 

[Heretic]

Heh. Pretty much. Plenty of fat lazy sports fans out there.

The difference is that sports fans believe that they are somehow involved in the sporting aspect...and that their fantasy sports league is actually cool.

Comic fans have no such delusions.

Therefore, sports fans are bigger dorks...because they don't realize that they are being dorks.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

No, it's the characters. Not many say "hey, lookat Batman, doesn't he show how creative humans can be". Not many comic book fans obsess over creators, the real people behind the comics, in the same way they obsess over the characters. Anyone who continues to make this point is erecting a straw man argument. Sports fans primarily concern themselves with the exploits of real people, comic fans primarily concern themselves with fantasy worlds. The deference given to fictional characters, as if they were real, is not found in sports fandom.

How many sports fans are obsessed with the managers, or any of the other people behind the scenes, training the sportsmen, teaching them tactics?

Yes, I am not obsessed with the lives of the writers, but I am obsessed with what they have created.

And yes, that creation is a fantasy. But as a writer myself, i recognise that not everyone is capable of creating those fantasies, and it is rare that they are so widely well recieved and liked. It's those fantasies that people obsess about... the iconic, incredible characters created by very rare and talented individuals, and brought to life again and again by other writers/artists who have a desire to explore those characters.

Yet, ultimately, comics are for children. They may have made great strides in terms of getting more 'adult' stories published, but they're still mostly a childish medium. The stories, like Sandman for example, which have reached outside acclaim are not the norm for the comic book world. It puzzles me how you cannot see how collecting comics may be viewed in the same light as collecting toys. We all know you could admire the scuplting on an action figure, but we also know that's not really why most people collect them. It's honestly the same with comics. Comic collectors are not fine purveyors of artistic acheivements, they're people who obsess over fictional cartoon characters aimed at children.

This whole discussion would not be unlike claiming that Comic Book collectors deserved the same respect and social acceptance as Wall Street investors because they both make investments.

Not at all the same.

Wall Street investors aren't doing it for entertainment value.

Comic Book fans and Sports fans, ENJOY what they are a fan of. That is their primary reason for watching/reading.

And it is that, and the way in which they celebrate their enjoyment, in which I see the strongest comparison between fandoms.

 

[BlackLantern]

Comic fans have no such delusions.

oh please....there are scores of comic geeks who believe that comics are the highest form of literature...that anyone who doesn't "get" Sandman is an uncultured Phillistine or that believe anything successful on the page owes it success to manga

 

[Heretic]

oh please....there are scores of comic geeks who believe that comics are the highest form of literature...that anyone who doesn't "get" Sandman is an uncultured Phillistine or that believe anything successful on the page owes it success to manga

I can't think of a single comic book reader that actually believes that it is COOL that they are wearing a Justice Society t -shirt and spend their day making a list of the sexiest members of the X-Men.

Sure, I think people SHOULD read comics...but I don't for a second believe that it's even remotely cool to do so. The lack of women hanging out at the Magic The gathering table is a big enough clue to most comic nerds.

 

[CelticPredator]

I thought I was pretty awesome when I wore an Invader Zim shirt.

And then the emo *****es took that **** over...


But still...why else would they wear a shirt depicting their favorite characters or comics? Because they think it's ****ing cool. Why else would they read those comics? Because they think they're ****ing cool.

If they dont...why do they do it? They dont have too....why do you like comics then?

 

[BlackLantern]

to be ironic? I have a Flash and a Zoom tshirt, but I don't wear them out, I usually wear them around the house when Im doing laundry or chores or some crap

 

[CelticPredator]

Huh. Never thought of doing that.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

How many sports fans are obsessed with the managers, or any of the other people behind the scenes, training the sportsmen, teaching them tactics?

Most fans have more than a casual knowledge of the people in those positions.

And yes, that creation is a fantasy. But as a writer myself, i recognise that not everyone is capable of creating those fantasies, and it is rare that they are so widely well recieved and liked. It's those fantasies that people obsess about... the iconic, incredible characters created by very rare and talented individuals, and brought to life again and again by other writers/artists who have a desire to explore those characters.

This all sounds pleasant and nice, but as I said, it's not why most collect comics and it doesn't change the fact that comic books collectors are not fine purveyors of art and literature. If this were a discussion about people who take writing seriously it would center around comics, or be a discussion exclusive to comics.

Not at all the same.

Wall Street investors aren't doing it for entertainment value.

You'd be surprised, but that's why I compared them to "collectors". People who collect comics as a hobby rather than read them have a much different approach.

Comic Book fans and Sports fans, ENJOY what they are a fan of. That is their primary reason for watching/reading.

And it is that, and the way in which they celebrate their enjoyment, in which I see the strongest comparison between fandoms.

It's also the weakest point of comparison because you could make it about anything - like religion. Most people enjoy, or at least tolerate, that what they devote time to.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I can't think of a single comic book reader that actually believes that it is COOL that they are wearing a Justice Society t -shirt and spend their day making a list of the sexiest members of the X-Men.

Sure, I think people SHOULD read comics...but I don't for a second believe that it's even remotely cool to do so. The lack of women hanging out at the Magic The gathering table is a big enough clue to most comic nerds.

I know plenty.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Also, society functions fine without comics, I actually imagine comic books will be relics in 10 years (perhaps stay in the form of E-Books), but I could never see the world functioning without sports.

 

[BlackLantern]

Im all for e-comics, would save me some space

 

[SuperFerret]

I can't think of a single comic book reader that actually believes that it is COOL that they are wearing a Justice Society t -shirt and spend their day making a list of the sexiest members of the X-Men.

Sure, I think people SHOULD read comics...but I don't for a second believe that it's even remotely cool to do so. The lack of women hanging out at the Magic The gathering table is a big enough clue to most comic nerds.

"Cool" is in the eye of the beholder. I pursue my geekly activities because I think that they are cool.

Also, comic books =/= Magic: The Gathering.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

While I won't paint fans with a broad brush at all, I don't think it's an accident that comics traditionally appeal to people who are anti-social or have trouble functioning in the real world, whereas sports appeal to people who are socially adept. This is not to say you can't have your cake and eat it too. There are many comic fans who do both. Although I find comic fans who are socially affluent people to be very non-chalant about comics. They seem to have an understanding that, at the end of the day, it's a pure fantasy and an escape, not a worthwhile pursuit (unless they have some artistic/writing talent). Sports fans benefit from sports being exceptionally culturally relevant, so they can take them more seriously and not be ostrasized for it. It's ultimately the same reason why we tolerate religious people believing very outrageous claims without evidence and don't lump them in with people who see pink elephants.

 

[RockSP]

But still...why else would they wear a shirt depicting their favorite characters or comics? Because they think it's ****ing cool. Why else would they read those comics? Because they think they're ****ing cool.

Exactly. I'm definitely not getting Heretic's point. For example I have a couple The Roots t-shirts. Why? I like The Roots. I assume a dude with a Captain America t-shirt either likes Cap or likes how the shirt looks, or both.

Sports fans benefit from sports being exceptionally culturally relevant, so they can take them more seriously and not be ostrasized for it. It's ultimately the same reason why we tolerate religious people believing very outrageous claims without evidence and don't lump them in with people who see pink elephants.

How?

And taking them "seriously" when they are in no way participating or benefiting from them boils down to the same thing...fantasy and escape.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

How?

And taking them "seriously" when they are in no way participating or benefiting from them boils down to the same thing...fantasy and escape.

What I mean when I say "taking them seriously" is setting aside portions of your life to do something involving them. How? I think for me it's hard to place something like sports which is really happening/happened or the same level into escaping into a purely fictional world. At some level you're still engaging reality when you watch/participate in/go to a sports event.

I mean someone running around trying to emulate Tom Brady is far less crazy than the guy trying to emulate Batman.