Batman Returns: Scene by Scene

[Homer J. Fong]

BATMAN RETURNS
SCENE BY SCENE
​

One of the earliest posts of any substance I wrote on Hype was in the Official Batman Returns Thread, and it was extremely favorable. Batman Returns is a movie that's very close to my heart. I don't know that it was exactly my introduction to Batman and his world, but it was part of that introduction; it's the first movie I can remember watching again and again and again, and it's the first movie I saw at an age that was way too young and probably inappropriate. I'm an aspiring director, and I've long dreamed of making a Batman movie, even if I don't know exactly what kind of Batman movie that would be, and Batman Returns has a great deal to do with that. It also played a large part in shaping my love of film period. I know it's not perfect, but...well, that's enough for now.


For a study in contrast, here are the first theatrical trailer and a classic McDonald's commercial:

[YT]RKiG_9C5T8E[/YT]

[YT]qoQU9si6PUc[/YT]

 

[JohnnyGobbs]

I'm pretty excited about this. Although I prefer Burton's first Batman film overall, I find Batman Returns the most interesting of the Batman films thus far. There's just so many themes and subtexts to dissect under the surface.

Also, whilst the first Batman served as my entry into the character's world it was Returns that really energised my passion for both the character, particularly his on-screen portrayal, and comic-book movies in general.

I'm disappointed in myself for not typing regular responses to your scene-by-scene analysis of the first Batman, but I wll try and regularly respond to your posts on Returns.

By the way, do your initial posts on Batman Returns for SHH still exist on-line, and if not would it be too much to ask if you could post in again on the Misc. Batman Films board?

 

[B.Layton Fan]

Nearly my most fav. comic film. Love BR.

 

[The Joker]

I prefer Returns to Batman '89, so I am very much looking forward to this one.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

[post=18699161]1. The Cobblepot Child[/post]
[post=18699161]2. Credits[/post]
[post=18709479]3. Tree Lighting[/post]
[post=18725471]4. Not Properly Housebroken[/post]
[post=18754684]5. Pandemonium in a Bow[/post]
[post=18754684]6. Batman Saves the Day[/post]
[post=18856841]7. Meeting of Monsters[/post]
[post=18996165]8. After Hours with Selina[/post]
[post=19069085]9. "Not Like You Can Kill Me"[/post]
[post=19385149]10. Catwoman Born[/post]
[post=19398208]11. Snatched and Recovered[/post]
[post=21197013]12. "I Have a Name!"[/post]
[post=21197013]13. "Hear Me Roar."[/post]
[post=21197013]14. Gentleman's Disagreement[/post]
[post=21197013]15. The Candidate[/post]
[post=21205411]16. Carnival of Chaos[/post]
[post=21205411]17. Cat at Play[/post]
[post=21205411]18. Creatures Threesome[/post]
[post=21205411]19. A itch: Life and I[/post]
[post=21232079]20. Mayoral Bid; Framed[/post]
[post=21360725]21. Kind of a Dark Side[/post]
[post=21365399]22. Gold-Plated and Lonely[/post]
[post=21366115]23. Dressing Up; Auto Disrepair[/post]
[post=21369381]24. Fall from Grace[/post]
[post=21369665]25. "Don't Like You Anymore"[/post]
[post=21369917]26. Driving School[/post]
[post=22170379]27. The Candidate Speaks[/post]
[post=22170379]28. "I Am an Animal!"[/post]
[post=22170379]29. Tired of Wearing Masks[/post]
[post=22170379]30. Party Crasher[/post]
[post=22174437]31. Pied Penguin Action[/post]
[post=22174437]32. Addressing the Troops[/post]
[post=22174437]33. The Batskiboat[/post]
[post=22174437]34. Duel of Freaks[/post]
[post=22180275]35. "A Die for a Die"[/post]
[post=22180275]36. Kissing Anti-Claus[/post]
[post=22180275]37. Farewell Escort[/post]
[post=22180275]38. Good Will Toward All[/post]
[post=22180275]39. End Credits[/post]

 

[Homer J. Fong]

By the way, do your initial posts on Batman Returns for SHH still exist on-line, and if not would it be too much to ask if you could post in again on the Misc. Batman Films board?

That post from the Official Batman Returns Thread is right [post=16711416]here[/post].

 

[ALP]

OMG, the voice in the Penguin in that McD's commercial was awful lol

It is my favorite Batman film from the Burton/Schumacher anthology. I loved the athmosphere and I felt the characters psyche went far deeper than in B'89. And B'89 is a product of its time, it feels a bit too 80s while BR is brilliantly timeless and set in its own universe.

While the film is dark, it has a certain fun quality and camp factor that balanced it out really well. I don't think it was overdone like so many people say. I understand the parental complains of the early 90s though, especially when things like the McD ads tried to show it as a kids movie.

 

[Smalley]

I'll be following this.

 

[returntovoid]

I like Batman 1989 and Batman Returns equally, to me both are one film broken into a two piece but I'll admit that Returns has more depth to it.

 

[Brother Jack]

I like Batman 1989 and Batman Returns equally, to me both are one film broken into a two piece but I'll admit that Returns has more depth to it.

It's very odd that you would think that, given that both films are so different from each other and don't share much story-wise. In fact other than a couple of mentions of Vicki Vale there's really nothing linking Returns to its predecessor other than the obvious.

 

[B.Layton Fan]

B'89 is a more generic take on Batman, its more about introduction Batman. 70% Batman 30% Burton.

BR is the oppsite, much more Burton, but still solid in the mythos.

Max Shreck is one my fav villians, all of Walkens scene's and interactions were raw business. Nearly blew Batman away.

 

[ALP]

I can agree when someone says Batman'89 is more Batman than Burton...because Burton is a single person. He is an artist with a style. On the other hand I simply cannot agree that Batman Returns is more Burton than Batman.

There's no such thing as "less Batman." Batman is not a single person or even a one shot book character with a definitive style. He is a character that can be interpreted thousands, nay, millions of ways. Is Batman'66 more Adam West than Batman? Is Dark Knight Returns more Frank Miller than Batman? Such distinctions are simply impossible to make.

 

[The Joker]

It's very odd that you would think that, given that both films are so different from each other and don't share much story-wise. In fact other than a couple of mentions of Vicki Vale there's really nothing linking Returns to its predecessor other than the obvious.

This is true.

 

[returntovoid]

It's very odd that you would think that, given that both films are so different from each other and don't share much story-wise.

It's not so much about continuity for me.

1. Both films have use of German Expressionism and Film Noir

2. Batman is very broodingly dark and kills if necessary in both films

3. There's quite a transition of Batman's character progression between both films.

4. Both have Danny Elfman's awesome score although slight variation

5. Both films are directed by Tim Burton

 

[Johnny Drama]

*subscribes*

 

[JohnnyGobbs]

Scene list pending

Any advance on that scene list Homer? Sorry to be a pain...

 

[Johnny Drama]

JohnnyGobbs, your username = epic win

 

[ALP]

It's not so much about continuity for me.

1. Both films have use of German Expressionism and Film Noir

2. Batman is very broodingly dark and kills if necessary in both films

3. There's quite a transition of Batman's character progression between both films.

4. Both have Danny Elfman's awesome score although slight variation

5. Both films are directed by Tim Burton

Batman'89 utilizes no aspects of German Expressionism. The film is influenced by Art deco of the 30s-40s and I also recall them saying shi-tamachi architecture was also an influence.

Batman Returns is not an exact continuation of its predecessor like say Two Towers that picks up exactly where the other left off, rather it is a new adventure with a slightly different feel. Far more akin to Temple of Doom.

 

[The Joker]

Batman'89 utilizes no aspects of German Expressionism. The film is influenced by Art deco of the 30s-40s and I also recall them saying shi-tamachi architecture was also an influence.

Batman Returns is not an exact continuation of its predecessor like say Two Towers that picks up exactly where the other left off, rather it is a new adventure with a slightly different feel. Far more akin to Temple of Doom.

To add to this, Batman is not nearly as dark or murderous in Returns as he is in Batman '89. His body count is much lower in Returns. I also saw no big character progression with Batman.

 

[returntovoid]

Batman'89 utilizes no aspects of German Expressionism.

Check these links:

Both Burton films are German Expressionist influenced but Returns is even more so.

http://www.batmanmovieonline.com/features.php?display=75

And of course, the Universal Horror influence.

http://www.batmanmovieonline.com/features.php?display=42

 

[returntovoid]

edit: huge f***ing mistake!

 

[ALP]

Check these links:

Both Burton films are German Expressionist influenced but Returns is even more so.

http://www.batmanmovieonline.com/features.php?display=75

And of course, the Universal Horror influence.

http://www.batmanmovieonline.com/features.php?display=42

Universal Horror is not German Expressionism. It was only minorly influenced by it as well. James Whale's Frankenstein certainly was influenced by GE but the Wolfman and Dracula and most were not. Todd Browning never said such either. James Whale was familiar with it mostly due to his time spent in Eastern Europe during WWI. And then there's the fact that so many people only refer to German Expressionism as dark and gritty when quite a bit of it was the exact opposite, very colorful and spontaneous.

As for the first link, it actually further proves my point. Every single example in that long article is all from Batman Returns. Except one- it makes mention of the Joker as influenced by German expressionism because of the scene where he cracks the mirror(it mirrors a scene from The Student of Prague) as well as how he has a perma-smile which is stretching it- and how the Joker was influenced by Conrad Viedt which is completely due to Kane and his co-creators, not Burton.

I know all about German expressionism, I have seen batman'89 many times and see little influence from GE in it. Burton, Anton Furst, and Tom Duffield have all spoken on their artistic influences on the first film and none of them have ever said GE whereas it is clearly abundent and indisputably in Batman Returns.

 

[The Joker]

The body count increased because him taking revenge against The Joker at the end of Batman '89 mentally affected him.

What? He only killed two people in Returns. The clown he set on fire with the Batmobile's turbine, and the strongman he strapped the bomb to. Who else did he kill after that?

He became more violent in Returns, then later when he finds out that Catwoman wanted revenge against Max Shreck and he realizes what has happened to him due to killing The Joker.

Where is that shown in the movie? He never even mentions The Joker. He doesn't even know why Selina wants to kill Shreck. Hence why he asks her "Why are you doing this?".

There was also another thing in that scene that made no sense. Why did Batman tell Schreck he was going to jail? Based on what charge? What evidence?

As for the number of body count, there's not much difference.

Batman '89:

- Thugs in Axis Chemicals get blown up
- Several thugs get shot by the Batwing's guns
- Tosses Ray Charles down the bell tower


Batman Returns

- Clown thug set on fire by the Batmobile's turbine
- Strong man he bombed

There's a huge difference.

 

[returntovoid]

Where is that shown in the movie? He never even mentions The Joker.

If he didn't realize that about taking revenge against The Joker then why would he bother stopping Selina from doing so.

Then there is this dialogue exchange from Batman Forever:

Dick Grayson: All I can think about every second of the day is getting Two-Face. He took my whole life. And when I was out there tonight, I imagined it was him that I was fighting, even when I was fighting you. And all the pain went away. Do you understand?

Bruce Wayne: Yes, I do.

Dick Grayson: Good, cause you gotta help me find him. And when we do, I'm the one who kills him.

Bruce Wayne: So, you're willing to take a life.

Dick Grayson: Long as it's Two-Face.

Bruce Wayne: Then it will happen this way: You make the kill, but your pain doesn't die with Harvey, it grows. So you run out into the night to find another face, and another, and another, until one terrible morning you wake up and realize that revenge has become your whole life. And you won't know why.

Dick Grayson: You can't understand. Your family wasn't killed by a maniac.

Bruce Wayne: Yes, they were. We're the same.

He doesn't even know why Selina wants to kill Shreck.

That's correct.

But he might have obviously known that she wanted revenge plus he knew that she was his secretary and he has this evil power plant plot.

Batman '89:

- Thugs in Axis Chemicals get blown up
- Several thugs get shot by the Batwing's guns
- Tosses Ray Charles down the bell tower


Batman Returns

- Clown thug set on fire by the Batmobile's turbine
- Strong man he bombed

There's a huge difference.

Sorry, there was a huge mistake in my post since I was sleepy when posting.

What I'm trying to say is that the body count is much less than B89 but the two kills in Returns are much more violent.

 

[returntovoid]

I have seen batman'89 many times and see little influence from GE in it.

For starters, the scenes of no dialogue told you thing through images.

1. It was left open to interpretation whether Batman deliberately threw Jack Napier in the chemical vat

2. The scene where Vicki follows Bruce in the car and sees him leaving two roses in crime alley, that scene is more about images not any dialogue

There might be more but those are the two my brain can think of, for now.