Be sure to stick the landing! The King Tommen Memorial Thread

[Rowsdower!]

Was Tommen a good king? No. But was it his fault? I'm not sure. What do you think? At least he gave us a funny death scene.

 

[Victarion]

I think Tommen was one of the few honestly good people in this series. It is a shame his parents didn't really love him.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Well, I think Jaime might have loved him. And Cersei probably did but after he screwed her on the "trial by combat" thing, I think she didn't really care what happened to him.

 

[Sawyer]

Tommen was a good, decent person. The problem is that good, decent people have no business in the game.

 

[Chesterfield]

Tommen was a waste. The guy was utterly useless. He was the king. He could have done whatever he wanted. He failed his mother on multiple occasions and his weak-ass motivations were fueled naively by his "love" for Margie.

Here's to goodbye and a permanent good riddance, Tommen Baratheon aka the splattered useless king.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Can you please refrain from posting spoilers in thread titles?

 

[Sawyer]

Tommen was a waste. The guy was utterly useless. He was the king. He could have done whatever he wanted. He failed his mother on multiple occasions and his weak-ass motivations were fueled naively by his "love" for Margie.

Here's to goodbye and a permanent good riddance, Tommen Baratheon aka the splattered useless king.

Cersei just did what she wanted and it will almost certainly lead to House Lannister's complete ruin, soo....

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I know right. I don't think Cersei deserves any sort of credit. To me, she's the biggest dunce of the series.

 

[Victarion]

Tommen could flex his muscles as the King...but up to this point everyone he's tried to command, like Cersei and the High Sparrow, have basically undercut his rule.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think Tommen might have turned out alright if Tywin survived to mentor him. Tywin may have been brutal at times, but he was one of the most capable rulers that the show has had.

 

[Victarion]

To an extent. He would have needed to cultivate a kinder image in the aftermath of the War of Five Kings to ensure a lasting legacy. A King Tommen advised by Twyin could have done just that, I think.

 

[Sakuraba]

I think Tommen might have turned out alright if Tywin survived to mentor him. Tywin may have been brutal at times, but he was one of the most capable rulers that the show has had.

This is exactly correct. Tywin was going to groom him to be a strong king, and he gave him a strong wife from a powerful house. Between the mentoring and the family he was giving Tommen, Show Tywin was securing his family legacy.

 

[Raiden]

Tommen was a waste. The guy was utterly useless. He was the king. He could have done whatever he wanted. He failed his mother on multiple occasions and his weak-ass motivations were fueled naively by his "love" for Margie.

Here's to goodbye and a permanent good riddance, Tommen Baratheon aka the splattered useless king.

Problem is that Tommen never get to do whatever he wants. Both Cersei and High Sparrow pretty much forced him to do their bidding, and if I were him I'd rather listen to Margaery than those two people. And keep in mind that Tommen was still young and inexperienced, and he was ill-prepared to play the game. In the end, I don't think he could have done anything to change the outcome. At least he never turned into Joffrey.

 

[ComicChick]

tommen was what? 15 when he died?

 

[Ms. Marvel]

This is exactly correct. Tywin was going to groom him to be a strong king, and he gave him a strong wife from a powerful house. Between the mentoring and the family he was giving Tommen, Show Tywin was securing his family legacy.

Dammit Tyrion!

 

[godisawesome]

Yknow, I actually kind of think that Tywin wasn't in his political prime anymore during the show's time period, and I doubt that he and Tommen really would have made as a "good" combination; an "adequate" one, sure, but I think Tywin's flaws as Hand during his second tenure are just as comparable to Ned's single term as anything else.

Tywin's prime as Hand, when pretty much everyone admits he was dangerously good at the job, was long ago, and mostly back before Tyrion's birth...AKA, when he was still enjoying the company of his beloved wife. He and Aerys have a falling out before Robert's Rebellion, since Jaime gets a Kingsguard job in part to act an an unofficial hostage for Aerys, and if you look closely at the effects of Tywin's turn as Hand in series, he actually serves a similarly deconstructive purpose to his Machiavellian philosophy as Ned did to his Good Prince philosophy.

Think about it: neither Ned nor Tywin can prevent their king from dying, both get killed in a way that is ironically and indirectly tied to their own actions, and both leave behind precarious inheritors who experience at least one self-inflicted set back tied to their fathers. And both men trusted Littlefinger even as he outright admits his world view (he told Ned not to trust him and gave Tywin an abridged version of his "Chaos is a ladder" speech)! Tywin's pragmatism is neccesary for a ruler, but Ned's long term thinking about what's best for the realm goes with that.

Tyrion said Westeros was Seven Kingdoms united in fear of Tywin Lannister...except that's not true. The North, the Riverlands, The Iron Islands, the Stormlands, and The Reach all lacked a true fear of him. The Iron Islanders were to incompetent to pose a threat, while the Reach proved that it had no problem following Tywin's own precedent of weeding out an undesirable King.And as Machiavelli himself said (and remember that the man himself may have been parodying dictators rather than writing a guidebook for them) to be feared is great, to be loved is good, but above all else, DON'T BE HATED, which, wouldn't you know it, is the reaction the rest of the kingdom's that weren't afraid had to him.

And Tywin kept attracting political opportunists; heck, he's got no one to blame for making Kingslanding even more of a nest of vipers than it was before save himself. Tyrion at least was smart enough to do what gardening he could ("Hey, Slynt, since no one can trust you, get the hell out of here! Pycelle, I know you're the spy, so I'm going to humiliate you. Littlefinger, I know that you're ticked off because I just played you like a fiddle but would you mind very much taking this box of bones and getting as far away from Kingslanding as possible? 'Kay, thanks, bye!"

 

[ThePhantasm]

Was Tommen a good king? No. But was it his fault? I'm not sure. What do you think? At least he gave us a funny death scene.

#KingsLanding

 

[DACrowe]

He really was the kind of ruler who could... fall for anything.

 

[Iceman]

Tommen was a nice kid, had no business being King of anything. How the hell do the genes get so mixed up when allocating between Joffrey and him?!

 

[Pink Ranger]

He really was the kind of ruler who could... fall for anything.

Damn you, now I want to see CSI: The Crownlands. Bronn can be Horatio.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Tommen was a nice kid, had no business being King of anything. How the hell do the genes get so mixed up when allocating between Joffrey and him?!

It is kind of weird how Tommen and Myrcella turned out so nice while Joffrey was a little monster. All three were products of inbreeding and raised by an evil mother. But maybe since Joffrey was the oldest, he was the one who she focused on the most and tried to turn him into a younger version of herself? Or maybe it was just because he was mentally unstable?

 

[Victarion]

It is kind of weird how Tommen and Myrcella turned out so nice while Joffrey was a little monster. All three were products of inbreeding and raised by an evil mother. But maybe since Joffrey was the oldest, he was the one who she focused on the most and tried to turn him into a younger version of herself? Or maybe it was just because he was mentally unstable?

1. I don't think Joff was told "no," as a child
2. He grew up around Robert

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Yeah although Robert ignored him most of the time, Joffrey took a lot of life lessons from his "father".

 

[Victarion]

Also, in the books Stannis remarked that a very young Joffrey cut open a pregnant cat to show Robert the babies. Robert was sickened by it and struck Joff on the head. Stannis and several others present thought Robert had killed the boy.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Cersei later referred to this incident as "some mischief with a cat". No wonder Joff ended up so ****ed up.