Marc said:
What if it wasn't about her being in harms way...
To quote MJ from ASM #257: "I just can't cope with the fact that Peter Parker is secretly Spider-Man!"
So, she was admitting the secret in a moment of duress. Nearly being killed herself would have created even more duress.
And I never said MJ would reveal Peter's identity. I said she would have called to him for help- knowing he could. And again, there were many more examples than those I mentioned.
The MJ thing was the worse retcon ever IMO. When I saw that Marvel was willing to go that far, I said then and there continuity was destroyed. They could have simply had MJ figure it out and tell Peter she's not buying it anymore. And that would've been fine. But as usual Marvel went too far and killed continuity.
It is dumb but actually possible no matter how improbable...
If you can on any level accept the Aunt May thing, then the Gwen thing is even more probable.
Why is she afraid though? ...
Do you actually think this never happens in real life? Many women in troubled relationships won't tell their husband/boyfriend about a pregnancy and will simply leave them. Why? Because the pregnancy creates another hold the man has on the woman, both emotionally and legally. So rather than deal with that, the woman will hide the pregnancy, break-up with the guy and move on (That happens in the Superman Returns movie, doesn't it?).
As for Gwen and Peter specifically. I'm not saying she was AFRAID OF PETER. I'm saying Gwen could have been uncertain about what to do (As the letter in SP says). She would likely have been afraid that if anything the pregnancy would have caused her to lose Peter. Again- ALOT of relationships end due to unplanned pregnancies. The guy might get scared off. Or the pressure of a premature family just causes the couple to fall apart. At the point I'm speaking of, Gwen could still have an abortion, not tell Peter. And that doesn't make her evil or a *****. It makes her a confused person who makes a mistake. Peter sure as hell has made them, and some of his have cost lives.
How is that clear and logical? ...
It's logical for someone in Gwen's position. To explain it hypothetically:
Before the children were born, Gwen is uncertain about how they would effect her future, Peter's future, and their future together. Plus she's dealing with enough problems in their relationship without the added pressure of children, and then her father's death. And she and Peter didn't merely have a "tiff". Her nearly being killed in ASM #83 and Peter not being there when she awakes in the hospital is more than a tiff. And let's not forget Pete's weirdness in ASM #87. And then his not asking her to stay with him in ASM #93 was also more than a tiff. This is whether or not they can be together as a family.
And you keep saying "give up her children". No one said she did. She left them in someone's care, just as Peter's parents left him in someone's care. Then when she returned to New York, with the children not there, Gwen could have felt she had more time to break it to Peter. But there were still problems between them. More jealousies, Gwen coming down on May. And note that her chiding May for treating Peter like a boy connects to her having trouble telling Peter about the children. As long as he thinks and acts like a boy, he can't be a father. May disappears and Peter freaks over that. None of this a good time to bring up kids.
Yes I know ultimately any of this could be debated. But that can be said of EVERY COMIC STORY EVER WRITTEN. For example, prior to her father's death, there was no logical reason Peter had for hiding his secret from Gwen. Does that make him wrong? And his secret finally led to her death. So if you hold secret children against Gwen, then you have to hold the same thing against Peter.
How does spidey being the culprit in her mind have bearing on Peter to the extent of this scenerio being logical?
If you're involved with someone- and they maintain a connection to another person you believe murdered your father- wouldn't you call their character into question on some level? Particularly with your children in the picture? Perhaps his relationship with Spidey could also put the children at risk.
Raging hormones, you sound like JMS here...
Like JMS? hell no. You need to look at the news, read some health journals. Women go through hormonal changes during and after pregnancy that can result in suicidal and homicidal acts. So I'd say merely holding back info from her boyfriend isn't too bad.
None of this excuses or makes sense ...
Just like you said with MJ. She was "acting". And we certainly didn't see Gwen alone very much. She might have been going nuts, weeping and worrying.
Christ, lets look at it in the smallest amount of sense...
Gwen would have been the first woman Peter had seen naked. So he doesn't know all the ins and outs. Also, the children were born prematurely, so she might not have had alot of stretching. To Peter, after her return from London, she might have just looked a little meatier. And who's going to complain about larger boobs (HEY NOW!
).
This is comics we're talking about.... comics. We have a 25+ year old going on for 40 years...
First off, the visa thing is moot. She could have had dual citizenship. Her family could just have some pull. She could have been 3 months pregnant when she left. And she did indeed have the children early.
As for the time between issues, ASM #121-145 happened in real time according to Marvel, as it's stated in #145 that Gwen had been dead for two years. And mind you, 15 out of those 24 issues had continuations seconds apart. So you're talking that there had to be many weeks to months between stories. Same could have happened between ASM #94 & 95.
If you want to believe acting is lying that's up to you. Some people saying acting is revealing the truth. But the obvious difference is that the audience knows the actor is pretending and chooses whether or not to indulge them. Lying is where the person doesn't know.
Apparently not, since its ok to lie to Peter...
Not every woman suffers morning sickness. My son's mother didn't. And remember- under the scenario I'm giving, Peter and Gwen would have been apart for most of the pregnancy, so she wouldn't have had to hide anything from him.
None of which mean anything as they don't explain her mindset...
They don't have to explain her mindset if she was just nearly killed. Her mindset is obvious. You can't actually believe that in a near death moment she's thinking "This still isn't the right time to tell Peter I know.."
So she leaves them in England...
Did she act normal with Peter? In the issues between her return and her death she was often stressed. Yes they were still two people in love. But just as he hid his problems from her she could have done the same.
No, she places them in someone's care, again just as Peter's parents did. Not every parent has an easy situation. My mom had to place me with an Aunt for a year when I was 7. It doesn't mean Gwen didn't love the kids and want to be a family. I'm sure we all wish that every abused and murdered child's parents would have been so considerate of their child's welfare.
Essentially what you're saying is that only a person who does what's right in every instance is deserving of love. That if Gwen was scared both for herself, Peter and the children that she's a "skank".
How ridiculous. We're not talking about the SP Gwen who had sex with another man then lied to Peter throughout their relationship only for fear of Peter rejecting her. We're talking about someone who loved Peter and was concerned about his life. Yes, it could be selfish of Gwen to expect Peter to marry her and care for children he didn't want. Yes, Peter's lifestyle as Spider-Man's photographer could be unstable and possibly dangerous to the children.
And in what Wonderland do you think people in college get support for children? I wish I knew you when my son came along. Doesn't happen pal.
Not worse in the sense that GG ...
Again, life in Wonderland. Maybe every person you know has no problems, does everything with machine-like precision and thus is worthy of praise. and anyone who falls short of that is a "skank". So, again I ask you- what does that make Peter? He's lied to people his whole life, made mistakes, hurt people and caused people's deaths inadvertantly. What title does he get, if only lying about a pregnancy ranks as "skank"?
What problem? Villains attacking the children? Thats about their only story use...
That's all you can think of? Off the top of my head:
Developmental issues, both physically and emotionally.
The kids getting into trouble, both with the best and worst of intent. Maybe they want to be like their father and fight crime, but make mistakes.
Maybe they're angry because of what they've gone through, what happened to their mom, whatever and express that anger.
Maybe they go after Osborn for killing their mom and victimizing them.
Maybe they try to find a cure for their affliction.
That's several storylines with no "villains attacking" in the list.
Especially since baby May has WAAAAY more story to tell quite obviously by the fact there is a Spider-Girl spin off.
EXACTLY. SHE HAS HER OWN COMIC. We don't need more Baby May stories in Spider-Man's book.
So Pete just ignores his children, just like Gwen...
Who says Peter would ignore them? Why is all or nothing with you? Gwen could have made trips to see them (We sure as hell didn't see her every waking moment in the comics) and Peter could also go to see them periodically. But out of respect for MJ, he wouldn't insist that she now be parent to Gwen's kids.
As for her family? Please. We didn't actually see them at the funeral anyway. Maybe they were caring for the kids who as we know had birth defects. Maybe they didn't know the right time to tell Peter either. Maybe they tried to contact him, he's away dealing with Spidey stuff, and by the time he returns more time has passed. Maybe they think this college-student photographer without a dime to his name is better off without having to deal with sickly kids. Yes. Maybe they're a-holes. Life isn't that neat. These things happen.
And you'd think they would be clever with writing about Peter's 7 year old kids?...
Then that's even more reason to not go with May. Writing occasional stories about two super kids is easier than writing continuous stories about a baby, toddler, etc.
This is all nitpicking. Pete won't have to pay child support unless it's demanded. And the kids would live with a family member of Gwen's. Hell, May might want to take them in for a time. Whatever. Everything you're bringing up could make for some great stories under the right hands.
This isn't even ac****ing for how MJ fits into all this, the stepmum... that sure enriches her already failing character.
Which is exactly why the kids wouldn't live with Peter and MJ.
I have. Plus if my girlfriend was getting out of bed to throw up in the mornings...
Okay. So you'd ask. A guy who spends his nights dodging bullets and pumpkin bombs might have other things on his mind.
Well you just explained that in the heat of the moment he doesn't use a condom and that he apparently doesn't give a damn after the fact anyway. So why would he use one on others?
You're not really asking this question, are you? I mean, if you thought about it for two seconds, you could figure it out, can't you?
I don't see why Gwen would be his first exactly but don't exactly want to argue that for 5 pages.
If you haven't read ASM #1-121, you should, then this question would be answered for you as well.
He apparently doesn't want to marry Gwen since she is so put down by his lack of need to do so, enough to do truly pathetic actions.
Okay. Read ASM 90-100 and that'll be answered for you as well.
No. His spider sense doesn't work that way.
Just as getting knocked up can go wrong, as you were asserting above to explain Gwen's 'fear'. Miscarriage can kill both the child and parent so yeah... dying is just as possible in the latter sense. So it isn't as black and white as you would like to portray.
Okay. Now I know you're just joking.
