Best Superhero Movie of Summer 2012 (Avengers, ASM, TDKR)

[terry78]

Avengers wouldn't have been the success it was without Whedon. That's an insult to what he brought to the table not only in direction, but screenwriting the damn thing. Those lines would never have been brought to light without him.

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

#1 The Dark Knight Rises... VASTLY superior in ALL respects...

#2 Marvel's The Avengers... no slouch by ANY means... WAS #1 in my book till TDKR came along...

#3 The Amazing Spider-Man... a dismal display and a complete disregard for the mythology of Spidey... this film deserves to be the loser of a movie that it's shown itself to truly be...

 

[DACrowe]

I will agree that Whedon brought to TA what no MCU film has had since IM1....life. I enjoyed Thor and while I didn't care for the other solo films between IM1 and TA, they weren't bad either. They were just very assembly line, cookie cutter, and safe.

The Avengers follows similar ticks, but Whedon infused it with his kinetic energy he brings to all projects and deft hand at characterization and pacing. I think the first hour of TA is the weakest, because it was a set-in-stone series of events of getting the Avengers together that Marvel dictated. Other than a few moments with Pepper or Banner and BW, Whedon had to go by the formula. But once they're all on the ship, he's in complete control of the characters and the movie lights up. That's why it was so refreshing compared to the rest of the MCU and to those who expected just another Transformers flick from the trailers.

However, there is no denying that it is less ambitious than what TDKR did. I think Whedon would have aimed for more with the story if Marvel had let him, but he made that simple story feel witty and fun. Nolan had in some ways a harder challenge of ending a successful trilogy satisfyingly, introducing new characters he had to cast and pretty much write from the ground up, and ultimately go for a story that told more than just a superhero tale.

I prefer Nolan's film. But that is not a knock against what Whedon had to offer.

 

[TheFuture]

I honestly didn't think Whedon's direction was anything special in TA, and this is coming from a Whedon fan. The dynamic between Tom and Chris was good, as was the dynamic between Ruffalo and RDJ. Co-incidently, in both cases, the chemistry was already established between these actors in previous films.

I also found the 'big' scene where they are all at each other's throats to be quite forced, and not half as cutting and engaging as Whedon's previous work dealing with such character dynamics.

 

[Tony Stark]

DKR while a good film was by far the weakest in the trillogy, so therefore I think it's a bit unfair to compare it to Avengers, which was the best MCU film to date.

TDK and Avengers are a more fair comparison, because they are both considered among the top superhero films in the genre, where DKR will never fit that bill. They were both the biggest films of their respective summer releases.

DKR just had too many problems structurally, it drags for about the first 2/3rds of the film, but has a great final act. Avengers is just a very different film in it's approach but what counts is execution, and Avengers really wins out here.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Dark Knight Rises was great. Amazing Spider-Man was pretty cool, I'm in for the sequel. Avengers sucked. I'll see the sequel if Whedon isn't involved. If he is, I'll stick to the solo movies, which I've loved all of so far.

 

[terry78]

Dark Knight Rises was great. Amazing Spider-Man was pretty cool, I'm in for the sequel. Avengers sucked. I'll see the sequel if Whedon isn't involved. If he is, I'll stick to the solo movies, which I've loved all of so far.

Wanna elaborate on why it sucked?

 

[Donnie Darko]

DKR while a good film was by far the weakest in the trillogy, so therefore I think it's a bit unfair to compare it to Avengers, which was the best MCU film to date.

TDK and Avengers are a more fair comparison, because they are both considered among the top superhero films in the genre, where DKR will never fit that bill. They were both the biggest films of their respective summer releases.

I agree with this. I liked The Dark Knight Rises, but all of the hype people have had about it since it came out is killing me. I mean, I really liked it, but I couldn't help but feel disappointed when I left the theater because my hopes were so high after Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and, more recently, Avengers. It's like I seriously wonder if people watched the same movie I did. I am hoping the hype levels out eventually, and people will finally say "you know what? it really wasn't as good as The Dark Knight, after all."

 

[HighFivingMF]

Wanna elaborate on why it sucked?

Eh. I have several times. Basically, I didn't like how every conversation sounded like Joss Whedon flirting with Juno. All of the time spent with characters I don't care about *cough*Black Widow*cough* instead of matching Thor's screentime to Captain America and Iron Man. The heroes spent more time fighting each other than the bad guys. Wasn't really my thing,

I was pretty forgiving of the compromises in the movies leading up to it, thinking the culmination would be something I enjoyed. But I don't blame Johnston, Branagh, Favreau, Letterier, or Feige for that.

 

[Metallo]

It was a horserace between The Dark Knight Rises and The Avengers for me but Avengers just edged out the win.

 

[Lorus]

Eh. I have several times. Basically, I didn't like how every conversation sounded like Joss Whedon flirting with Juno. All of the time spent with characters I don't care about *cough*Black Widow*cough* instead of matching Thor's screentime to Captain America and Iron Man. The heroes spent more time fighting each other than the bad guys. Wasn't really my thing,

I was pretty forgiving of the compromises in the movies leading up to it, thinking the culmination would be something I enjoyed. But I don't blame Johnston, Branagh, Favreau, Letterier, or Feige for that.

I have absolutely no idea what this means.

 

[DACrowe]

DKR while a good film was by far the weakest in the trillogy, so therefore I think it's a bit unfair to compare it to Avengers, which was the best MCU film to date.

Not if you think Nolan's trilogy at its weakest is better than anything the MCU has offered to date, like myself.

 

[DACrowe]

I have absolutely no idea what this means.

He doesn't care for Whedon-speak. That is fine. I myself love it when it is done with some restraint (Firefly or Dollhouse as opposed to Buffy and Angel). I also don't really get why he doesn't like the heroes fighting. If they got along it would a very boring movie.

 

[Tony Stark]

Not if you think Nolan's trilogy at its weakest is better than anything the MCU has offered to date, like myself.

I can understand that. But I just felt that DKR is somewhat of a mess for the first couple of acts, but makes up for it in the end.

 

[TheFuture]

I agree with this. I liked The Dark Knight Rises, but all of the hype people have had about it since it came out is killing me. I mean, I really liked it, but I couldn't help but feel disappointed when I left the theater because my hopes were so high after Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and, more recently, Avengers. It's like I seriously wonder if people watched the same movie I did. I am hoping the hype levels out eventually, and people will finally say "you know what? it really wasn't as good as The Dark Knight, after all."

Ironic, but I feel the same way about TA. At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal taste and what works for each individual. For example, people keep complaining about the first act or so in TDKR but personally I loved it. I just found it so fascinating to watch a broken Bruce Wayne slowly inserting himself back into the real world. You could literally feel the weight of the Batsuit without Bruce even wearing it, which in turn added a lot more meaning and satisfaction to when he finally puts the suit back on. I love that kind of thing, a good slow burner that adds dramatic weight to the big moments.

TA just didn't hit the right spots for me, a shame since I liked pretty much everything Marvel Studios had released until TA.

 

[CConn]

He doesn't care for Whedon-speak. That is fine. I myself love it when it is done with some restraint (Firefly or Dollhouse as opposed to Buffy and Angel). I also don't really get why he doesn't like the heroes fighting. If they got along it would a very boring movie.

I think their reasons for fighting we're rather shallow and uninspired.

Like, the hero vs. hero fights in Ultimates 1 made SOOO much more sense than the ones in TA.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I agree with this. I liked The Dark Knight Rises, but all of the hype people have had about it since it came out is killing me. I mean, I really liked it, but I couldn't help but feel disappointed when I left the theater because my hopes were so high after Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and, more recently, Avengers. It's like I seriously wonder if people watched the same movie I did. I am hoping the hype levels out eventually, and people will finally say "you know what? it really wasn't as good as The Dark Knight, after all."

It wasn't. I don't see TDK in this poll though. It is better than The Avengers. It is far, far better than The Amazing Spider-Man.

 

[Lorus]

He doesn't care for Whedon-speak. That is fine. I myself love it when it is done with some restraint (Firefly or Dollhouse as opposed to Buffy and Angel). I also don't really get why he doesn't like the heroes fighting. If they got along it would a very boring movie.

I understand that he clearly didn't like the dialogue, what I don't understand is what his criticism was. Even your own summation of it as 'Whedon-speak' is somewhat unclear to me. As someone who has watched/read everything Whedon's written I've never seen the consistent through line that people refer to, other than that the wit seems sharper and hits home more frequently.

 

[Donnie Darko]

It wasn't. I don't see TDK in this poll though. It is better than The Avengers. It is far, far better than The Amazing Spider-Man.

I realize that The Dark Knight isn't in the poll. I am talking about all of the people who jumped on facebook right after they saw the movie and were like "OMG! BEST MOVIE EVER!!!!" and all of the people I have seen talking about how it is the best of the series, or greatest superhero movie of all time, or "finally, a comic book movie for us adults" (after they were all over The Avengers two months before).

 

[CConn]

I understand that he clearly didn't like the dialogue, what I don't understand is what his criticism was. Even your own summation of it as 'Whedon-speak' is somewhat unclear to me. As someone who has watched/read everything Whedon's written I've never seen the consistent through line that people refer to, other than that the wit seems sharper and hits home more frequently.

The wit is too convenient and kitschy to be enjoyable for some.

Generally, myself included. I hate Whedon with a passion.

 

[Lorus]

The wit is too convenient and kitschy to be enjoyable for some.

Generally, myself included. I hate Whedon with a passion.

What makes you consider his wit 'kitschy' compared to, say, the wit in Iron Man? I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything but I'm genuinely interested in what people don't like considering there are a fair few people who share a similar hatred of Whedon and I've only ever received vague responses in the past.

 

[DACrowe]

I can understand that. But I just felt that DKR is somewhat of a mess for the first couple of acts, but makes up for it in the end.

I agree the first act is a bit messy (though it improves on repeat viewings) and the second one has an intriguingly different pace that I thought works. I even think TA has better pacing (Though I think its first act feels a bit bloated and uneven), but as a whole I prefer TDKR. I see your point though, even if I ultimately disagree.

 

[DACrowe]

What makes you consider his wit 'kitschy' compared to, say, the wit in Iron Man? I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything but I'm genuinely interested in what people don't like considering there are a fair few people who share a similar hatred of Whedon and I've only ever received vague responses in the past.

I think his wit is a bit more playful than IM1's or Favreau's. It's more self-aware. While Favreau tried to get an oddball comedy feel Howard Hawks-style with Pepper and Tony, most of Whedon's characters, save for the worst of villains, have that kind of rapport and not only is it that fast and sharp, it is more of a deliberate pace where everyone talks like that in his shows.

When he tones down the wink, wink, nudge, nudge of it like in Firefly, Dollhouse, Serenity and The Avengers, I think it's great. Or if the movie is a straight up comedy, like Cabin in the Woods, the more of it the better. But some find it too unnatural and at times too meta. I disagree.

 

[HighFivingMF]

He doesn't care for Whedon-speak. That is fine. I myself love it when it is done with some restraint (Firefly or Dollhouse as opposed to Buffy and Angel). I also don't really get why he doesn't like the heroes fighting. If they got along it would a very boring movie.

I don't mind tension. But I prefer the heroes to hit bad guys and not each other. And I disagree that the characters getting along would make the movie boring.

 

[DACrowe]

I never cared for JL and didn't like the Avengers until the Ultimates came along, because of the whole hokey "Super Friends" vibe they always gave. So, I find it far less corny, more believable and just entertaining that all these loner alpha-types butt heads instead of fighting side by side with ease.