The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Better 3 Villains: TASM2 Or SM3?

[Doctor Octopus]

I would agree as well. While I do think the villains in SM3 are weak , I do think they were stronger and more developed than the ones in ASM 2. Plus they fit into the overall narrative a bit more and each sort of reflected a side or conflict in the hero. Sandman sort of reflected Peter's lingering guilt over Uncle Ben's death and his indirect role in it, Harry reflected alot of the baggage that being spiderman has brought to his interpersonal relationships, and Brock was suppose to be a mirror or dark version of what Peter. Overall the plot and themes just work together in a better way than in ASM2.

Than again ASM 2, was trying to not so much tell a story with complimentary themes as it was a foundation to build a universe on, with ongoing story arcs which would be resolved several films down the line and characters like Electro and Rhino sort of supplement those arcs as opposed to driving them. Hence ,they are disposable as opposed to integral to the arcs. I think that's probably why Harry was the stronger villain or baddie of the 3 since its clear Sony had a plan for the Osborn family going forward.

Agreed.

Not many movies have done the villains worse than TASM 2.

 

[spiderman2]

I actually like Spider-Man 3 as much as the other Raimi films. I just don't particularly like Raimi's films in general (great villains, but I can't stand Tobey as Peter or Dunst as MJ...). That probably invalidates a lot of my opinion, but...

Anyway, yeah, I'm going with TASM2 on this one.

Rhino might have just been a cameo, but he did something I've been hoping they would do with Spidey films for years: introduce a smaller villain for Spidey to face at the beginning and end of the film. Just to show that there are other threats that they didn't need to cover on screen in Spidey's world. To show that it isn't just stopping generic villains and bank robbers all day. And, honestly, while not really developed, Rhino's scenes were fun.

Electro was a little weak in terms of narrative, but he made sense. He wanted to be recognized, had a chance to, and went berserk when he felt that Spider-Man was taking away his recognition. Which, to be fair, he was. It's not that weird, considering that Electro is clearly unstable from the get go. He's not like Doc Ock or GG, who were mentally stable and well in the head before they became bad guys. No, Electro is clearly nuts long before becoming a bad guy. I was surprised they took so much time justifying why he was a nut job. He seemed like the kind of guy who would come into work one day with a sawed off shotgun just to prove he was there.

As for DeHaan...I still don't get why people think he was underdeveloped. Aside from the fact that the Goblin syrum clearly screwed with his brains (he only laughs like a maniac while transformed), he had very good reason for hating Spider-Man and Peter. The guy didn't jump at the chance to save his life. He would have died. I fail to see how that's a bad motivation for a character's introduction.

And yes, it's an introduction. TASM series appears to be a story that is better told when you have all the pieces, unlike Raimi's films, which, individually, were complete and self-contained (save for Harry's arc). Looking at it like that makes the ASM series a better narrative. A little messy, but it works better that way.

Looking at SM3...it's a mess.

Look at Harry. Becomes Goblin at the start, builds up to a huge conflict---amnesia! Taken out before things can get going, until the plot needs him to do stuff. And what does he do? Force MJ to break up with Peter. It's a dilemma that could be solved if MJ just TOLD Peter that Harry was the Goblin. Sure, James Franco is just awesome as Harry, so that makes it easier to overlook the flaws...but what was Harry's plan? Just to screw with Peter? Okay, fine, but that's not really villainous. It's a little *****y, but that's...not really worth the three films of build-up.

Look at Sandman. While he had some great scenes, and his motivation made sense, Raimi had to retcon major details of Spidey's history just to add that personal element that was so essential to the plot. Complain about TASM all you like, but the fact that only half of the villains have a personal tie to Peter before becoming villains is a huge plus. It avoids repeating the whole "this guy is a personal enemy of mine" thing, reserving it for only the biggest bads. If every villain has a personal connection to Peter, then what's so special about that?

And then Venom. A huge disappointment. It's kinda...sad. Complain about Electro or Rhino, but neither of them had a whole deal of tragedy or nuance to their origins like Venom. Electro and Rhino are both jerks, and become bigger jerks with superpowers. Venom starts off as a fairly decent guy (albeit a little unethical with journalism), gets screwed, blames Spider-Man (who, to be fair, isn't an unreasonable claim), then merges with an equally rejected alien. If told right, it could've been on par with Two-Face's fall from grace in the Dark Knight. Instead...it's a joke.

So yeah, TASM2 wins for me. Easily.

Agree with everthing you just said.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

TASM2 by any means lol.

 

[W/ Great Power]

I hope Harry comes back as a more menacing Goblin, whether that's in S6 or ASM3.

I just didn't feel the fear factor in his character.

 

[bapi]

Spider-Man 3, definitely.

 

[bapi]

And like SM3 is not a good movie but it's entertaining and at least they tried to be serious with villains. ASM2... Electro, Rhino and Goblin were laughable.

 

[bapi]

Let's be honest: all three ASM2 villains lack any motivation. Electro and Rhino are episodic villains without any concrete plan and Harry... well, there was no reason for him to become GG.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

ASM2 had villains?

Yes! Here they are:

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Spider-Man 3 by far!

SM3's villains were not perfect but their motivations made sense and that's the most basic thing when making villains(which TASM 2 failed to do). You sort of understand why the're doing what they do and they serve their purpose in the story. Even Venom! I mean even if we as fans were disappointed that he was just 15 minutes at the end, in the context of the movie it feels natural that this particular subplot was resolved at the end. Besides the action scenes were fantastic.

In TASM 2 the villains lack a good motivation, they look silly(apart from Electro), their action scenes are boring and lack intensity. Dehaan's Green Goblin is probably the most shoehorned villain ever, not only does he lack motivation but he doesn't seem to have a consistent characterization and the only reason he was in the movie at all was to kill Gwen, I honestly feel insulted by that.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

My fave villains ever:

1. Magneto(both Fassbender and McKellen)
2. Doc Ock/Green Goblin
3. Loki
4. The Joker
5. The Winter Soldier

 

[Havok83]

It pained me to vote for SM3, but overall they were better than the crap we got in this film. I did like ASM3's Goblin but that whole development happened way too fast and there wasn't enough of him

 

[TWayneP]

I actually LIKE SM3, but come on, ASM2 by a country mile. Venom is one of the WORST adapted comic book movie villians to grace the screen. (No pun intended) Dr doom bad. Just an embarrassment of my favorite Spidey villian. I've said enough about it through the years. I'm glad he died. He deserved it for being such a horrible representation of a beloved character.

Sandman had one awesome scene, otherwise misused IMO. The film should have focused on just him and Harry goblin. James Franco does nothing for me as Harry, and his goblin is eyerollingly unbearable along with the amnesia angle. It makes me laugh for all the wrong reasons lol.

Electro isn't well developed but he was damn cool. His pesence alone whoops on anyone in SM3. He actually seems like a force to be reckoned with. He isn't corny to me in the slightest, it fits the character.

Rhino is great because of his limited screen time. There should be villians like this running around the city for Spidey to capture. His role was perfect in bookending the film. I don't mind the mech suit at all. I just wigs they wouldn't have ruined the ending in trailers and tv spots.

Dehaans Goblin I think was almost perfect for what it was. I wish there had been more of an aftermath to Gwen's death, but I love what they did. He's genuinely chilling and we follow his character through the whole film. He doesn't feel shoehorned in at the end like Venom does. Eddie just happens to be in the wrong place at the right time. Harry's descent into madness in ASM2 is well done IMO. The way his goblin appears at the end has to do with themes presented throughout the movie. I could have used a bit more but I can connect dots where need be. Dehaans Goblin is now spider-mans ultimate enemy.

I know you all disagree with me, but I don't want to hear it. I'm not disrespecting anyone else's opinion, so don't disrespect mine.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Electro is as bad as the worst comic book villains in movies like Arnold's Mr. Freeze. I don't know how anyone could think he is cool since he was so cheesy, had really bad dialogue, got caught in his first time meeting Spider-Man and stayed in Ravencroft for most of the movie until a teenager set him free near the end lol. Rhino was as corny as him, too, and it was a good thing he was only in it for a few minutes. A main role of that would have been unbearable lol. DeHaan Goblin was rushed, looked stupid, and was only there to kill Gwen at the very end.

Also Harry in the comics had amnesia for a long time after he became Goblin first time. It's comic accurate to Harry Osborn.

 

[TWayneP]

Electro is as bad as the worst comic book villains in movies like Arnold's Mr. Freeze. I don't know how anyone could think he is cool since he was so cheesy, had really bad dialogue, got caught in his first time meeting Spider-Man and stayed in Ravencroft for most of the movie until a teenager set him free near the end lol. Rhino was as corny as him, too, and it was a good thing he was only in it for a few minutes. A main role of that would have been unbearable lol. DeHaan Goblin was rushed, looked stupid, and was only there to kill Gwen at the very end.

Also Harry in the comics had amnesia for a long time after he became Goblin first time. It's comic accurate to Harry Osborn.

I knew that about the amnesia angle. It's horrible.

 

[LizardMan07]

Electro had so much prescence though, he was legitimately powerful, more so than any other spidey villian. The amount of damage he did in times square for instance, surely more than any other villian in a spidey film to grace the screen.

Rhino is the definition of camp, but it worked in the context of the film.

The green goblin is born within the first 20 minutes of the film, and slowly takes over harry until the last 30 minutes, where harry dies, and we get a truely intense charcter.

He made Spidey/Gwen feel vulnerable, watch the scene with him again, the way peter reacts, Gwen talks, you know ****s about to hit the fan.

Wait until the end of S6, Dehaan will blow it out of the park and absolutely rocket himself up the list of memorable spidey villians.

 

[Spider-knight]

i expect dane to deliver a compelling performance and feel alot threatening and while i like his look in TASM 2 i hope he keeps mutating into an actual goblin with the physicality of the 616 version and quite possibly updated armor

 

[The Joker]

Dane may or may not deliver the goods in another movie. It's his performance in this movie that's being judged. And all he did was the spend the movie moaning for a cure to his ailment. His version of Harry was very cold and one note. No proper friendship with Peter. No explored relationship with his father.

Harry was stripped of everything that makes him a great character.

 

[LizardMan07]

Well, he wasn't your typical harry osborn, and compared to harry from another movie, he's weak.

All I'm saying is the character itself has a chance to be redeemed.

I've already accepted that SM3 probably has better villians

 

[Andrew Lucas]

There's no redemption for Harry.

TASM3 will be Goblin's Last Stand.

I hope.

 

[LizardMan07]

not redeemed in the "everyone loves him" stance but redeemed in the fact that people will appreciate his character.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

not redeemed in the "everyone loves him" stance but redeemed in the fact that people will appreciate his character.

Bruh..

Spoiler

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

I'd have to go with Spider-Man 3. At least all of the villains were tied into the main theme of forgiveness. Venom is created and defeated because Eddie Brock Jr can't forgive Peter (even though he was a jerk anyway and deserved to be fired in any situation, but I digress). Peter needs to learn to forgive Sandman (even though the dude does deserve to get put into prison for what he's done). And Peter and Harry need to learn to forgive each other.

What was the point of Electro in The Amazing Spider-Man 2? What does the theme of mortality have to do with him? Does he serve as a way for the film to talk about certain themes? No - he's there for the spectacle and to serve as the cliched sympathetic character who becomes a villain.

Harry was the only villain who was related to the theme of mortality - he's trying to escape his ultimate destiny: death. His desire to sell his soul to cheat death is what costs him in the end.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Agreed. Electro is the worst most pointless villain ever of the Spider-Man films.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Yep. He is literally the most pointless villain in a CBM....even moreso than Malakeith in TDW

 

[LizardMan07]

Electro works as the middle ground to serve the antithesis of harry and peter.

Both electro and harry were given the opportunity to trancend their suffering and didn't, Peter did, that's the main difference.

Electro works as a foil for harry when exploring the themes of desperation, both in his "teaming up" with harry and the depths of desperation they can reach.

Electro also works to distinguish peters actions as spider-man and the consequences of those actions, to reiterate that he cannot save everyone and even when he can do something, sometimes it just isn't enough. This is in contrast to Harry, where the omission of action led to Harrys descent into evil.

From a film perspective, Electro worked as a visual treat, and a road to connect harry, peter and gwen through outside means.

Overall, electro's story is that of loneliness, of insanity, and ultimately, of a power struggle, quite literaly in every sense of the word by the end of the film.

He exploded