The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Better 3 Villains: TASM2 Or SM3?

[Doctor Octopus]

The sad aspect of SM3's misfire is that we finally could have seen a Spidey rivalry with a villain who actually hated Peter, not just because Spidey got in the way of some nefarious plan. Raimi could have even used Gwen's relationships to Eddie and Peter to give us something believable, but even that was a paper-thin construction. The fake photo story was so contrived and uninspired that I can't believe it wasn't immediately shot down.

We did get a rivalry like that. Eddie didn't have a nefarious plan, he just made a fraud to get a job, and he was exposed by Peter for it. Peter also dated the girl that Eddie was obsessed with and that made him hate him even more.

That is great basis for rivalry because Peter did things that hurt and upset Eddie's life in a really bad way. That did not happen in terrible comic book Venom story.

It's obvious that Venom was like ex-lax to Sam Raimi: it's not something he wanted to take, but he moved it through his system as quickly as possible, and what came out was foul-smelling.

That is the genius of Sam Raimi. Even when he had to use a character he did not originally want or like he made a better version of him. Just goes to show all you need is some skill.

One of the reason's I like Webb's Electro so much is that the scene in his home that was a back story unto itself. We saw a guy who had built a volatile idol obsession over his life. Even though Peter didn't know him, it was already a personal relationship to Max. When it became clear that the relationship wasn't reciprocal, Max's emotions turn from positive to negative (see what I did there?) but with the same believable level of intensity.

In some ways, Electro was the execution of what Venom should have been in SM3. Eddie has lived his whole life with success and inclusion eluding him, despite his most dedicated efforts. Spider-man's intervention with the Sin-Eater became the avatar of Eddie's tumultuous life. It was personal for Eddie and personal for the symbiote, which sought out a host to match its own spurned feelings toward Peter. It would have been so sweet to see such a brilliant villain--one who actually believed he was the hero, and Spidey was the incognito bad guy--on a quest to eradicate his personal bogeyman.

Instead, we were force-fed the goofball from That 70s Crap, saying schlock such as, "I like being bad." Not only was that painful to see due to Blowpher's inability to act, it was the exact opposite motivation of what Venom should have had. It was so inexcusably awful.

That is also wrong because Electro did not build up a volatile idol obsession over his life. He built it up after meeting Spider-Man for a minute on the street when he got saved by him. He then thinks he is a special friend of Spider-Man's because he says out of all people in NY Spidey saved him, and Spidey saves NY people all the time. He was standing in elevator with Gwen watching TV screen news footage of Spider-Man saving other people when he was saying that too lol. He is a comical fool and his obsession was stupid.

He was just another stupid idiot like comic book Venom.

 

[Lantern Venom]

We did get a rivalry like that. Eddie didn't have a nefarious plan, he just made a fraud to get a job, and he was exposed by Peter for it. Peter also dated the girl that Eddie was obsessed with and that made him hate him even more.

That is great basis for rivalry because Peter did things that hurt and upset Eddie's life in a really bad way. That did not happen in terrible comic book Venom story.


That is the genius of Sam Raimi. Even when he had to use a character he did not originally want or like he made a better version of him. Just goes to show all you need is some skill.


That is also wrong because Electro did not build up a volatile idol obsession over his life. He built it up after meeting Spider-Man for a minute on the street when he got saved by him. He then thinks he is a special friend of Spider-Man's because he says out of all people in NY Spidey saved him, and Spidey saves NY people all the time. He was standing in elevator with Gwen watching TV screen news footage of Spider-Man saving other people when he was saying that too lol. He is a comical fool and his obsession was stupid.

He was just another stupid idiot like comic book Venom.

Spidey 1 and 2 had villains with similar motivations. Much like the Lizard in TASM, Gobby and Ock were scientists who pushed too hard and paid with their sanity. That's a classic comic book storyline, and Venom could have been and should have stood in stark contrast to that. He could have been the unbalanced guy who Spidey slowly and inadvertently pushed over the edge. Instead, the first we see of VINO is an expressionless, stock character who has the same merciless professional drive as Gobby and Ock, but with a lame goal. Then the audience watched him take some risky shortcuts and get caught. It was a re-heated, bland trope.

We also saw Eddie display very little compassion for Gwen when she was in mortal danger (in contrast to the 616 Eddie's ongoing affection for Ann), so it was illogical that he would have been so upset when they broke up. From start to finish, VINO was a failed concept.

Electro was a character with similar motivations to the 616 Eddie Brock. He didn't want money or power, just acceptance. When circumstances continued to work against him, the volatile aspect of his damaged psyche was fed until it took over.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Spidey 1 and 2 had villains with similar motivations. Much like the Lizard in TASM, Gobby and Ock were scientists who pushed too hard and paid with their sanity. That's a classic comic book storyline, and Venom could have been and should have stood in stark contrast to that. He could have been the unbalanced guy who Spidey slowly and inadvertently pushed over the edge. Instead, the first we see of VINO is an expressionless, stock character who has the same merciless professional drive as Gobby and Ock, but with a lame goal. Then the audience watched him take some risky shortcuts and get caught. It was a re-heated, bland trope.

We also saw Eddie display very little compassion for Gwen when she was in mortal danger (in contrast to the 616 Eddie's ongoing affection for Ann), so it was illogical that he would have been so upset when they broke up. From start to finish, VINO was a failed concept.

Electro was a character with similar motivations to the 616 Eddie Brock. He didn't want money or power, just acceptance. When circumstances continued to work against him, the volatile aspect of his damaged psyche was fed until it took over.

Venom did stand in stark contrast to that. He was not a scientist pushed over the edge. He was an obsessive unbalanced guy who was turned ruined by the good guy and turned into something worse when he was bonded with the symbiote. Gobby and Ock were results of their own life's work turning them into something horrible. Like the comics.

Eddie not displaying compassion to Gwen when she was in danger shows what he felt for was not love it was just obsession. Not real feelings. But we know his obsession was based on more than just a one minute meeting like stupid Electro was. He was like comic book Eddie Brock. A fool with a grudge based on nothing real. Eddie in Spider-Man 3 all his character relationships and vendettas were based on something solid and real. He is the best version of Venom and better than all TASM 2 villains.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Venom did stand in stark contrast to that. He was not a scientist pushed over the edge. He was an obsessive unbalanced guy who was turned ruined by the good guy and turned into something worse when he was bonded with the symbiote.

That's the same song, but in a different tune. Eddie's hatred was impulsive based on a couple of thinly-written events. It's not the multi-faceted Eddie where both extremely noble and extremely sadistic thoughts co-existed even before the symbiote. Here are a few 616 quotes to show you just how far off base Raimi was with VINO:

The darkness that blankets this city is nothing. Nothing! Not compared to the shroud that Spider-Man pulled over me! He stole my life... shattered it... then cast it aside like yesterday's news! So it is only fitting, only fair, that I do the same to him! And I will. Very... very... soon!

There! An innocent! Hello, kitty. I'm VENOM. Do you need saving today?

Yes, we make a great hero! We can bash with the best of them! Heh heh. We'll be back!

Frankly, Carnage......no. You're just a self-centered geek who likes to inflict pain and suffering on others......you're a scum!

We are the victim of outrageous lies and vicious gossip! Carnage kills indiscriminately and at random... we choose our victims most carefully!

http://marvel.wikia.com/Category:Edward_Brock_(Earth-616)/Quotes



That's the brilliance of Venom. Even when he was the villain, he never saw himself as such. The passion, the psychopathy, the dark humor...all of that could have come to life on screen. It would have been glorious. Instead we got Blowpher's usual hurr durr durr face, and a single battle. Oy vey.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

That's the same song, but in a different tune.

No it isn't.

Eddie's hatred was impulsive based on a couple of thinly-written events. It's not the multi-faceted Eddie where both extremely noble and extremely sadistic thoughts co-existed even before the symbiote.

Eddie's hatred was based on his life being messed up on purpose by Peter. That is not thin that is strong. Eddie hating Spider-Man because he caught Sin Eater killer, that is thinly written lol.

The darkness that blankets this city is nothing. Nothing! Not compared to the shroud that Spider-Man pulled over me! He stole my life... shattered it... then cast it aside like yesterday's news! So it is only fitting, only fair, that I do the same to him! And I will. Very... very... soon!

That is great example showing how stupid Venom is thinking that of Spider-Man when it's not true and they never even knew one another before he became Venom. When read that it makes Venom's hate of Spidey seem so stupid.

here! An innocent! Hello, kitty. I'm VENOM. Do you need saving today?

Yes, we make a great hero! We can bash with the best of them! Heh heh. We'll be back!

We are the victim of outrageous lies and vicious gossip! Carnage kills indiscriminately and at random... we choose our victims most carefully!

These ones are so corny lol. Hello kitty I'm Venom do you need saving? Yes, we make a great hero! We can bash with the best of them! Heh heh. We'll be back! We are the victim of outrageous gossip.

LOL. Sounds like a child wrote them.


Your picture of Venom saving child is from the silly anti hero period where the Marvel people got bored of just having Venom stalk and try and kill Spider-Man all the time so they turned him into anti hero character and that was even worse. That was when they started making all the other symbiote characters for him to fight because fighting Spider-Man got stale. They could only milk that silly weak feud for so long.

That's the brilliance of Venom. Even when he was the villain, he never saw himself as such. The passion, the psychopathy, the dark humor...all of that could have come to life on screen. It would have been glorious. Instead we got Blowpher's usual hurr durr durr face, and a single battle. Oy vey.

If corny dialogue and silly anti hero antics like that are your idea of Venom brilliance then I am so glad that never happened in a movie. It would be laughed off the screen lol. There is no humanity or depth to that. It is just cartoonish antics with cartoonish dialogue.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Your picture of Venom saving child is from the silly anti hero period where the Marvel people got bored of just having Venom stalk and try and kill Spider-Man all the time so they turned him into anti hero character and that was even worse. That was when they started making all the other symbiote characters for him to fight because fighting Spider-Man got stale. They could only milk that silly weak feud for so long.

Nope, that was Venom's 3rd arc with Spider-man. It was ASM 331 or 332, I believe. He had already established that he didn't want to hurt any bystanders unnecessarily (he didn't hurt Aunt May even though he showed up at her house) and that he wasn't planning to reveal Peter's indentity to other villains, yet another area that Raimi immediately botched. The Lethal Protector was always there, and it was a natural progression of a complex personality.

 

[The Joker]

Venom's comic book dialogue always sounded so cheesy. "We bash the best of them. Heh heh". I mean really this is supposed to make us take him seriously? Cringe.

And the full on anti hero stuff was a bottom of the barrel scraping idea that they went with the character after the stalk Spidey routine got boring very fast. That's all Venom is. A long history of cheap gimmicks. That's why Carnage was created to give Venom a new nemesis because the Spider-Man feud was growing mold and went nowhere interesting. The anti heroism, Anti-Venom, Scorpion Venom, Flash-Venom etc, and there was those She-Venom likes Patricia and Anne. The Brock character ran out of steam in the 80's and all these were just desperate gimmicks to keep the Venom character fresh, and half of them didn't even involve Brock himself. There's a reason why the 90's is considered one of the worst periods for Spider-Man comics, and the whole symbiote fest is one of them. But this is what happens when a character's popularity is predicated on shallow assets like looks and powers. Raimi took the basics of Venom and made a solid version of him. One with a decent motive to want to kill Spider-Man.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Venom's comic book dialogue always sounded so cheesy. "We bash the best of them. Heh heh". I mean really this is supposed to make us take him seriously? Cringe.

And the full on anti hero stuff was a bottom of the barrel scraping idea that they went with the character after the stalk Spidey routine got boring very fast. That's all Venom is. A long history of cheap gimmicks. That's why Carnage was created to give Venom a new nemesis because the Spider-Man feud was growing mold and went nowhere interesting. The anti heroism, Anti-Venom, Scorpion Venom, Flash-Venom etc, and there was those She-Venom likes Patricia and Anne. The Brock character ran out of steam in the 80's and all these were just desperate gimmicks to keep the Venom character fresh, and half of them didn't even involve Brock himself.

And there's your answer as to why Marvel has never been able to replicate the Venom's meteoric rise in the 90s with no success. Venom was that period's version of Wolverine; he grew larger than the original intention and stood on his own. Even the latest hard-sell with Flash only produced about 1/2 of the books that Brock sold, and only a fraction of the merch. When Brock gets the black symbiote back, Marvel will get some readers back as well.

Likewise, let's hope that Sony learned from Raimi's mistakes. While a small portion of viewers might have been OK with VINO, the passionate fans of comic Venom weren't. VINO is punchline all over the internet, and Sony knew that selling a spin-off with Blowpher's "acting" and a vapid personality was a lost cause. Raimi's ambivalence cost the studio a lucrative movie, if not a franchise.

 

[The Joker]

And there's your answer as to why Marvel has never been able to replicate the Venom's meteoric rise in the 90s with no success. Venom was that period's version of Wolverine; he grew larger than the original intention and stood on his own. Even the latest hard-sell with Flash only produced about 1/2 of the books that Brock sold, and only a fraction of the merch. When Brock gets the black symbiote back, Marvel will get some readers back as well.

You can't even compare Venom to Wolverine because Wolverine has had continued sustained success and popularity ever since his inception. Not to mention the key difference; Wolverine is a good character with a solid foundation, and didn't need a load of imposters or sub spin off characters to keep his character fresh.

Likewise, let's hope that Sony learned from Raimi's mistakes. While a small portion of viewers might have been OK with VINO, the passionate fans of comic Venom weren't. VINO is punchline all over the internet, and Sony knew that selling a spin-off with Blowpher's "acting" and a vapid personality was a lost cause. Raimi's ambivalence cost the studio a lucrative movie, if not a franchise.

Putting aside the fact that Spider-Man 3 was a huge financial success (the highest grossing Spider-Man movie yet) and a decent critical success (just not as good as the first two), the reason there was no Venom spin off was because there was not going to be a Spider-Man 4. So they just rebooted the whole franchise. It had nothing to do with any of Spider-Man 3's shortcomings, not that Venom was one of it's shortcomings.

Now the only reason there's talk of a Venom spin off, not to mention Sinister Six and female spin offs, is because TASM 2 was such a critical and financial disappointment. The lowest the franchise has sunk. That's the only reason why that one trick pony Venom is even being entertained now with his own spin off. They're desperate.

 

[Oscorp]

Except sm3 isn't a decent critical success

 

[Lantern Venom]

You can't even compare Venom to Wolverine because Wolverine has had continued sustained success and popularity ever since his inception. Not to mention the key difference; Wolverine is a good character with a solid foundation, and didn't need a load of imposters or sub spin off characters to keep his character fresh.



Putting aside the fact that Spider-Man 3 was a huge financial success (the highest grossing Spider-Man movie yet) and a decent critical success (just not as good as the first two), the reason there was no Venom spin off was because there was not going to be a Spider-Man 4. So they just rebooted the whole franchise. It had nothing to do with any of Spider-Man 3's shortcomings, not that Venom was one of it's shortcomings.

Now the only reason there's talk of a Venom spin off, not to mention Sinister Six and female spin offs, is because TASM 2 was such a critical and financial disappointment. The lowest the franchise has sunk. That's the only reason why that one trick pony Venom is even being entertained now with his own spin off. They're desperate.

There have been rumors of a Venom movie for almost 20 years, and the Blowpher debacle only has fans more desperate. Unfortunately, the character was stuck in the hands of a director who thinks there's one worthy time period in Spidey's history, so he couldn't be bothered with the wishes of a large fanbase.

While you might *personally* perceive the Spidey franchise as being at a low point, that's certainly not the overall response. Check Rotten Tomatoes: Spidey 3 has a better critical consensus, but TASM 2 has a considerably higher user rating. It's a push.

Except sm3 isn't a decent critical success

63% on the Tomatometer, so it's a moderate success. However, Roger Ebert ripped it to shreds.

 

[Oscorp]

Given how SM1 and SM2 are in the 90s, I wouldn't say SM3 being 63% is a "decent critical success". That's a huge drop, and low compared to many other CBMs. Even lower than TASM

 

[The Joker]

There have been rumors of a Venom movie for almost 20 years

Yeah rumors. Nothing more. It wasn't until the success of Spider-Man 3 that something concrete actually happened when they started hiring people to get to work on it.

and the Blowpher debacle only has fans more desperate. Unfortunately, the character was stuck in the hands of a director who thinks there's one worthy time period in Spidey's history, so he couldn't be bothered with the wishes of a large fanbase.

This is a total falsity. It was the success of Venom in Spider-Man 3 that opened the gates to have a Venom spin off. There was no debacle involved. A few disgruntled internet fans does not equal a debacle.

The franchise was not in danger in any way, shape or form. Sony were not backed into a corner. They were not losing money or audiences. They didn't have to make any spin off. They were sitting pretty with Spider-Man. The reason they even entertained a Venom spin off was because of Spider-Man 3's success.

While you might *personally* perceive the Spidey franchise as being at a low point, that's certainly not the overall response. Check Rotten Tomatoes: Spidey 3 has a better critical consensus, but TASM 2 has a considerably higher user rating. It's a push.

No offense but you really are naive on this one. Where to start on this;

1. Spider-Man 3 has been out for 7 years now. TASM 2 has been out for 5 paltry months.

2. Spider-Man 3 has over two million user ratings and sitting on a nice comfortable 3.3/5 rating which is very good for a movie that was no doubt a disappointment, and so often exaggeratedly and falsely called one of the worst CBMs ever.

3. TASM 2 only has a pathetic two hundred thousand user ratings and is a mere 0.4 difference in score to SM-3. Take a wild guess how much more it's going to have shrunk in 7 years time. Heck I'd say by this time next year it will be lower than SM-3's.

63% on the Tomatometer, so it's a moderate success.

Well good to see we agree on something.

You're right a drop from the previous two movies doesn't negate the fact that it still landed a decent critical score. A fresh one. Unlike TASM 2.

However, Roger Ebert ripped it to shreds.

Wouldn't be the first decent movie Ebert has ripped. Ones from the CBM community like Thor, to regular great movies like The Usual Suspects.

 

[chaseter]

Given how SM1 and SM2 are in the 90s, I wouldn't say SM3 being 63% is a "decent critical success". That's a huge drop, and low compared to many other CBMs. Even lower than TASM

But not lower than TASM2.

 

[Oscorp]

But not lower than TASM2.

No, but given how some people call SM3 a critical success and TASM a failure, you'd understand the point of my post.

 

[Lantern Venom]

The reason they even entertained a Venom spin off was because of Spider-Man 3's success.




Wouldn't be the first decent movie Ebert has ripped. Ones from the CBM community like Thor, to regular great movies like The Usual Suspects.

Venom nearly had a film produced by New Line, and it only made sense for Sony to wait until the character appeared in the Spidey franchise first before their spin-off. However, those plans were instantly gone after VINO. If you do a web search of the words "Topher Grace Venom miscast" you'll see pages of sites like IGN and CBmovie refer to him as one of the worst miscast in CBM history. Ebert made the valid point that the symbiote's story also made zero sense in SM3, so that also didn't help any future prospects.

While you like VINO, the overwhelming consensus is that it was a terrible execution of a beloved character. If there ever is a Venom spin-off, of which I'm still doubtful, Sony needs to stick with what made the character a fireball of popularity in the first place.

 

[The Joker]

Venom nearly had a film produced by New Line

It never even came close to happening. I mean a Venom movie before there was even a Spider-Man movie. Was a pipe dream.

and it only made sense for Sony to wait until the character appeared in the Spidey franchise first before their spin-off.

Sony didn't wait for him to appear before doing it. Sony decided on it after Spider-Man 3.

However, those plans were instantly gone after VINO. If you do a web search of the words "Topher Grace Venom miscast" you'll see pages of sites like IGN and CBmovie refer to him as one of the worst miscast in CBM history. Ebert made the valid point that the symbiote's story also made zero sense in SM3, so that also didn't help any future prospects.

I don't know what misinformed sources you were reading back then but the Venom spin off was announced AFTER Spider-Man 3's release. Not before.July 2007 to be exact. Three months after Spider-Man 3's release.

Grace's portrayal didn't scrap anything. It triggered it. If the overwhelming consensus had been it was bad, then they wouldn't have even entertained the notion of a Venom spin off.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

If you do a websearch of anything, you'll find results of that item. Lol. I could do a web search of "wolverine origins is underrated" and get results.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Grace's portrayal didn't scrap anything. It triggered it. If the overwhelming consensus had been it was bad, then they wouldn't have even entertained the notion of a Venom spin off.

You should take the blinders off. Whenever CBM miscasts are mentioned, VINO makes the list. Whenever worst CB villains are reviewed, VINO is in the discussion. Every article I've read about a Venom spin-off from the current TASM franchise makes some mention of making amends for the Blowpher debacle.

Here is a mere sampling. There are reviews and articles like this all over the internet. Raimi's laziness with the character and Blowpher's "acting" killed any interest in the character going forward in that form. VINO was universally panned. There is simply no arguing that apart from personal preference.

http://za.ign.com/entertainment/74318/feature/ranking-the-spider-man-movie-villains

http://www.craveonline.com/film/articles/600557-the-10-best-and-10-worst-marvel-movie-villains#/slide/9

http://www.spike.com/articles/2fyn8r/the-top-10-worst-comic-book-casting-mistakes?page=2

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=23013

http://bestforfilm.com/film-news/spider-man-spin-offs-are-on-the-horizon/

 

[The Joker]

You should take the blinders off. Whenever CBM miscasts are mentioned, VINO makes the list.

Oh really? Every time eh.

http://whatculture.com/film/10-badly-miscast-actors-marvel-cinematic-universe.php/11

http://www.fandango.com/movie-photos/the-best-and-worst-casting-in-comic-book-movies-427

http://onereviewerinamillion.com/ho...nd-worst-casting-choices-in-superhero-movies/

http://www.hollywood.com/news/celebrities/55027729/superhero-miscasts

And they're just from page 1 of my Google search. I can provide plenty more if you want. I can even give you ones that praise his casting if you like; http://ifanboy.com/articles/top-5-unexpected-good-comic-book-movie-casting-choices/

And take your own pair of blinders off while you're at it, too, to wipe that egg off your face

Whenever worst CB villains are reviewed, VINO is in the discussion. Every article I've read about a Venom spin-off from the current TASM franchise makes some mention of making amends for the Blowpher debacle.

As I've just proven that is not the case. I'm not saying he was a popular CBM villain, but he is not even remotely close to the debacle disaster you're trying to make him out to be. The Mandarin twist in Iron Man 3 caused more fuss than that.

Here is a mere sampling. There are reviews and articles like this all over the internet. Raimi's laziness with the character and Blowpher's "acting" killed any interest in the character going forward in that form. VINO was universally panned. There is simply no arguing that apart from personal preference.

But as I've just proven to you that is totally not the case. For every article you provide I can counter it with one that doesn't have him listed as the worst, and therefore saying he was universally panned and killed any interest in a Venom spin off is a total falsity (especially when he spin off was announced three months after SM-3's release) and a beautiful example of the exaggerated hyperbole I aforementioned that is commonly thrown at SM-3 from a loud bunch of disgruntled fans.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Oh really? Every time eh.

http://whatculture.com/film/10-badly-miscast-actors-marvel-cinematic-universe.php/11

http://www.fandango.com/movie-photos/the-best-and-worst-casting-in-comic-book-movies-427

http://onereviewerinamillion.com/ho...nd-worst-casting-choices-in-superhero-movies/

http://www.hollywood.com/news/celebrities/55027729/superhero-miscasts

And they're just from page 1 of my Google search. I can provide plenty more if you want. I can even give you ones that praise his casting if you like; http://ifanboy.com/articles/top-5-unexpected-good-comic-book-movie-casting-choices/

And take your own pair of blinders off while you're at it, too, to wipe that egg off your face



As I've just proven that is not the case. I'm not saying he was a popular CBM villain, but he is not even remotely close to the debacle disaster you're trying to make him out to be. The Mandarin twist in Iron Man 3 caused more fuss than that.



But as I've just proven to you that is totally not the case. For every article you provide I can counter it with one that doesn't have him listed as the worst, and therefore saying he was universally panned and killed any interest in a Venom spin off is a total falsity (especially when he spin off was announced three months after SM-3's release) and a beautiful example of the exaggerated hyperbole I aforementioned that is commonly thrown at SM-3 from a loud bunch of disgruntled fans.

Some of your links only covered heroes, and none of those offered any particular praise to Blowpher. I've even read reviews by critics who admitted to being Blowpher fans who still thought it was a terrible miscast.

I know I'll never convince you (since we've been though this several times over the years) but I don't feel that I need to convert everyone. The vitriol and lack of a VINO spinoff is proof enough that a lackadaisical director and a goofy actor will never inspire a redux.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think most people are disappointed in Venom in SM3. I like the movie a lot, but I will admit this. That being said, I actually appreciate what Raimi was doing with him, and felt he could have worked if someone who could have pulled off scary in the final act was in the role. Venom was great when he had the Venom mask on, and wasn't Topher talking. I don't think Venom needed two movies or anything. He just needed a better team-up scene with Sandman, maybe 1 more Brock scene with Gwen, and less maskless Topher. I don't think Venom was entirely inaccurate an adaptation. He was different in some respects, but he honored the theme of the film, and the fact he is supposed to be a symbolic representation of what Spider-Man would be if he was overtaken by the darkness.

I don't think SM3 is as hated as people say it is outside Spider-Man fans. To the mainstream audience, I think they thought it was good, but disappointing relative to SM1 and SM2.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I always thought Spider-Man 3 was good too. Not as good as the other 2. I would give it a 7/10.

I also thought X-Men Last Stand was good but that is mostly because Beast is my favorite X-Men and Grammar was perfect.

 

[W/ Great Power]

I would have liked Venom to be utilized better, but I too still think SM3 is a good film, overall. I can still go back to watch the film and enjoy it. I think we, comic fans, over analyze it and critique it based on our background knowledge of the characters and their different iterations. However, I think the everyday movie goer still liked the film, and was probably dumbfounded when the reboot occurred.

I remember when TASM1 was about to come out, a couple people I know asked me why we didn't get SM4. It's definitely something that created confusion among the general audience, which probably led to a lot of people not being onboard with TASM series.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I agree. I think Spider-Man 4 would have outgrossed TASM significantly. Since TASM ended up costing 250mil, I don't think SM4 would have been much more expensive, either. No way to know that for sure, of course, but I do think the reboot lost people, which we can see since that audience didn't come back. No guarantee the movie would have been better than TASM was, but I do think it would have had more buzz.