Better villain: Thanos (Josh Brolin) vs The Joker (Heath Ledger)

Better villain

  • Thanos (Josh Brolin)

  • The Joker (Heath Ledger)


Results are only viewable after voting.
Thanos wasn't scary IMO. He never had any moments of real intensity or creepiness like Joker's torture video of Brian Douglas - "Look at me.....LOOK AT ME!!!", getting up in someone's face with a knife telling his creepy scars stories etc.
Calmly throwing the woman he raised for years after killing the population of her planet is scary.
 
Calmly throwing the woman he raised for years after killing the population of her planet is scary.

I didn't find that scary. Just sad. Even he was remorseful while doing it.

I'm not even sure there's a single villain in MCU that has a moment of real intensity and creepiness.

I agree. The only two scenes I found any tension in with an MCU villain was when Stane caught Pepper snooping in his office, and Toomes confronting Peter in his car on prom night.
 
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Thanos was a great character but no one dethrones the king.
 
Thanos is a better defined, more sympathetic character and more of a physical threat but Heath's performance, Wow. I'd put it in my top three all-time favourite performances.
 
Thanos wasn't scary IMO.

Yes, he was. I genuinely feared for the heroes every time he was on screen.
I haven't felt such fear for the heroes since the first Matrix (Agent Smith) and John Conner (T-1000).
 
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Yes, he was. I genuinely feared for the heroes every time he was on screen.
I haven't felt such fear the heroes since the first Matrix (Agent Smith) and John Conner (T-1000).

What can I tell you, you're obviously more easily scared than I am.
 
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I felt Thanos was intimidating in IW and that the characters were in legitimate danger. I mean, it's cool if you didn't Joker, but it isn't a small number of people who felt that way watching the movie. That seems to be a majority opinion based on the Avengers forum.
 
What can I tell you, you're obviously more easily scared than I am.

I'm talking about the villain being an actual threat. How many movies do you watch where the hero feels in true danger. For me, it's hardly ever apart from a few select instances and Thanos delivers that threat in spades.
 
I'm talking about the villain being an actual threat. How many movies do you watch where the hero feels in true danger. For me, it's hardly ever apart from a few select instances and Thanos delivers that threat in spades.

I know what you're talking about. That doesn't make it scarier to me. The threat scale. I didn't see people walking away saying Loki and the Chitari felt really scary because they nearly wasted New York.

People mentioned non CBM villains like Anton Chigurh and Hannibal Lecter as feel legitimately scary, but these guys are not big scale threats like Loki or Malekith, or Starlord's father etc. But who do audiences find more intimidating? Not the ones who can wipe out whole populations or planets.
 
I felt Thanos was intimidating in IW and that the characters were in legitimate danger. I mean, it's cool if you didn't Joker, but it isn't a small number of people who felt that way watching the movie. That seems to be a majority opinion based on the Avengers forum.

I am beside myself with surprise at that :cwink:
 
I know what you're talking about. That doesn't make it scarier to me. The threat scale. I didn't see people walking away saying Loki and the Chitari felt really scary because they nearly wasted New York.

People mentioned non CBM villains like Anton Chigurh and Hannibal Lecter as feel legitimately scary, but these guys are not big scale threats like Loki or Malekith, or Starlord's father etc. But who do audiences find more intimidating? Not the ones who can wipe out whole populations or planets.

Those are really bad examples (Loki and Chitari). How is Loki a credible threat to Thor let alone The Avengers? That's why I think Avengers is overrated as there are no stakes. 'Threat' isn't about the scale of attack, who cares if a nameless city is nuked (why Age of Ultron didn't work for me). Threat is about the villain getting into the heroes head and genuinely giving the feeling they can lose.

That's why Killmonger and Thanos are so compelling even though they are at opposite ends of the power scales.
 
I am beside myself with surprise at that :cwink:

Even discounting the opinions of us on the forum, I saw this movie several times. 8 to be exact. With various people and I did much audience watching during my viewings (I do that sort of stuff). There was legitimate tension with the movie and the audience, and Thanos was a credible threat. So it goes beyond just the Avengers forum. Again, if there was no tension for you, that is fine. I'm just saying it's hardly a minority that felt Thanos made you scared for the characters.
 
Those are really bad examples (Loki and Chitari). How is Loki a credible threat to Thor let alone The Avengers? That's why I think Avengers is overrated as there are no stakes. 'Threat' isn't about the scale of attack, who cares if a nameless city is nuked (why Age of Ultron didn't work for me). Threat is about the villain getting into the heroes head and genuinely giving the feeling they can lose.

That's why Killmonger and Thanos are so compelling even though they are at opposite ends of the power scales.

Is that a serious question? If Loki was not a credible threat, then he has no business being the villain to Thor, let alone the Avengers. If your villain is not a credible threat, then they have no business being in the movie in the first place. Only a bad CBM would use a villain who poses no legit threat to the hero.

Thanos' didn't get into the heroes heads and make them feel like they can lose. He went and gathered up a bunch of magical stones that gave him the power to win. He beat them by power. He was very much a villain who was about threat scale. That's why it took just about every MCU hero to take him on. His power level was greater than anyone they faced. At the end of the day he's just another world destroying villain. Only this time they actually let him have some casualties. And for the others who turned to dust, we all know that is going to be retconned e.g. Spider-Man's sequel is already casting the villains.

What makes him stand out for me is he had some depth, Brolin gave a good performance, and the movie actually invested time in him to make us care. Unlike most of the previous MCU villains who were under cooked and forgettable.

Even discounting the opinions of us on the forum, I saw this movie several times. 8 to be exact. With various people and I did much audience watching during my viewings (I do that sort of stuff). There was legitimate tension with the movie and the audience, and Thanos was a credible threat. So it goes beyond just the Avengers forum. Again, if there was no tension for you, that is fine. I'm just saying it's hardly a minority that felt Thanos made you scared for the characters.

I haven't seen any consensus that makes me believe otherwise. I mean saying its being said in the Avengers forum is like me pointing to the BvS forum where the Snyder crowd is champing that movie.

Don't get me wrong, I do not doubt your theater experience story. And there may well be a consensus that finds Thanos scary. I cannot definitively say there isn't. But I've not seen it yet, or anything to suggest there is one.
 
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Is that a serious question? If Loki was not a credible threat, then he has no business being the villain to Thor, let alone the Avengers. If your villain is not a credible threat, then they have no business being in the movie in the first place. Only a bad CBM would use a villain who poses no legit threat to the hero.

Thanos' didn't get into the heroes heads and make them feel like they can lose. He went and gathered up a bunch of magical stones that gave him the power to win. He beat them by power. He was very much a villain who was about threat scale. That's why it took just about every MCU hero to take him on. His power level was greater than anyone they faced. At the end of the day he's just another world destroying villain. Only this time they actually let him have some casualties. And for the others who turned to dust, we all know that is going to be retconned e.g. Spider-Man's sequel is already casting the villains.

What makes him stand out for me is he had some depth, Brolin gave a good performance, and the movie actually invested time in him to make us care. Unlike most of the previous MCU villains who were under cooked and forgettable.



I haven't seen any consensus that makes me believe otherwise. I mean saying its being said in the Avengers forum is like me pointing to the BvS forum where the Snyder crowd is champing that movie.

Don't get me wrong, I do not doubt your theater experience story. And there may well be a consensus that finds Thanos scary. I cannot definitively say there isn't. But I've not seen it yet, or anything to suggest there is one.

There was more to Thanos than his power level. Thanos was nuanced and sympathetic and he immediately established himself as the biggest threat the Avengers have ever faced in the first 5 minutes of the movie.
You may want to reduce Thanos to mere power level but for me Thanos is one of the most compelling villains I have ever seen.
 
I know what you're talking about. That doesn't make it scarier to me. The threat scale. I didn't see people walking away saying Loki and the Chitari felt really scary because they nearly wasted New York.

People didn't find Thanos frightening because of the scale. They found him frightening because he's unpredictable in ways that movie villains (including the Joker) usually aren't.

1) Thanos doesn't bend to narrative "rules" that we've all been trained to believe in. When the heroes make big sacrifices or dramatic entrances or clever plans with great teamwork we expect them to succeed. But in IW Thanos is the protagonist, so it's his plans and entrances and sacrifices that pay off.

2) The structure of the movie made it possible, narratively, for any of the heroes to die. When T'Challa gets thrown over the waterfall in Black Panther, no one in the audience thinks he's dead; it's *his* movie. But in both my viewings when Thanos [BLACKOUT]stabbed Tony[/BLACKOUT] there were audible gasps and shouts because everyone subconsciously knew the movie didn't really need him any more.

3) Thanos takes a measured approach to conflicts in the movie that leaves the audience unsure of how far things are going to go. He tends to start slow (perhaps even by talking) and escalate as he meets resistance; once he's got what he wants, he tends to leave. He's not out for blood but he's fine with killing if that's how it unfolds. That's a different dynamic from most superhero fights, where there's an unstated assumption that the villain is going all out (be it to escape or to kill the hero), and it creates a weird sort of rising tension where the heroes feel more endangered the harder they fight.

4) Thanos' capabilities keep changing and growing as he gets more Stones. So not only is the audience unsure of what Thanos will be willing to do, they also have only a vague idea of what he can do until after he already does it.

5) The state of the MCU, with a lot of big name actors having their contracts ending, made the heroes dying or being otherwise removed plausible in a meta sense.

It's kind of a perfect storm.
 
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People didn't find Thanos frightening because of the scale. They found him frightening because he's unpredictable in ways that movie villains (including the Joker) usually aren't.

1) Thanos doesn't bend to narrative "rules" that we've all been trained to believe in. When the heroes make big sacrifices or dramatic entrances or clever plans with great teamwork we expect them to succeed. But in IW Thanos is the protagonist, so it's his plans and entrances and sacrifices that pay off.

2) The structure of the movie made it possible, narratively, for any of the heroes to die. When T'Challa gets thrown over the waterfall in Black Panther, no one in the audience thinks he's dead; it's *his* movie. But in both my viewings when Thanos [BLACKOUT]stabbed Tony[/BLACKOUT] there were audible gasps and shouts because everyone subconsciously knew the movie didn't really need him any more.

3) Thanos takes a measured approach to conflicts in the movie that leaves the audience unsure of how far things are going to go. He tends to start slow (perhaps even by talking) and escalate as he meets resistance; once he's got what he wants, he tends to leave. He's not out for blood but he's fine with killing if that's how it unfolds. That's a different dynamic from most superhero fights, where there's an unstated assumption that the villain is going all out (be it to escape or to kill the hero), and it creates a weird sort of rising tension where the heroes feel more endangered the harder they fight.

4) Thanos' capabilities keep changing and growing as he gets more Stones. So not only is the audience unsure of what Thanos will be willing to do, they also have only a vague idea of what he can do until after he already does it.

5) The state of the MCU, with a lot of big name actors having their contracts ending, made the heroes dying or being otherwise removed plausible in a meta sense.

It's kind of a perfect storm.

That's not the perfect storm. What you described there is situational. Any villain could have been placed in that movie and people would still be afraid for the favorite heroes being killed. Not because they were facing Thanos, but because as you said the situation the MCU was in and most of the heroes were game to be killed off because contracts were up.

When IW was in production, and people were hazarding guesses as to who was going to live and die, it wasn't based on who could face and survive Thanos. It was based on which actor was likely to be done with the franchise, or which character was surplus to requirements.

That doesn't describe a scary villain. That describes a scary situation. The villain is just the plot device the situation will use to get rid of said characters. Take your Black Panther example in his movie. You're right, nobody feared he was dead. Not because Killimonger didn't seem like a legit threat who could kill him. It was because we all knew it wasn't the end of him because it was his movie and his first solo movie. Wouldn't matter if it was Killimonger or Thanos or Galactus who had been the instrument of his seeming death, we knew he was going to live.

Same as how a lot of the characters who turned to dust in IW are getting sequels, their 'endings' there are meaningless. For example, I felt no fear for Spidey at all during IW, even though he was one of the most vulnerable heroes being a teenager fresh into The Avengers, because I knew he was getting a sequel. All the things you described about Thanos didn't mean diddly squat in the grand scheme. Because it was the situation of the MCU, not the villain that made the fear of who survives and who won't.
 
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That's not the perfect storm. What you described there is situational.

...perfect storms are situational. That's what it means. Everything comes together just so.

Any villain could have been placed in that movie and people would still be afraid for the favorite heroes being killed. Not because they were facing Thanos, but because as you said the situation the MCU was in and most of the heroes were game to be killed off because contracts were up.

You still have to execute. Thanos wouldn't have worked if the CGI was bad or even mediocre. He wouldn't have worked if Brolin's performance was either flat or over-the-top. He wouldn't have worked if the writing was bad, which could easily have turned him into another boring cliche spout like Malekith or Steppenwolf.

If they'd dropped the ball Thanos could have been another Doomsday, killing heroes with nobody caring because he's not really a character and he brings no emotional weight to the proceedings.

Fortunately they threaded the needle and the Thanos character fulfilled the movie's potential.


When IW was in production, and people were hazarding guesses as to who was going to live and die, it wasn't based on who could face and survive Thanos. It was based on which actor was likely to be done with the franchise, or which character was surplus to requirements.

That doesn't describe a scary villain. That describes a scary situation.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, and in this case each is feeding the other. Again, replace Thanos with Doomsday or Steppenwolf, as executed in their respective movies, and suddenly the situation isn't scary anymore even if heroes are dying. If the villain doesn't draw the audience in and make the situation feel real then people start to notice that it's just a bunch of CGI spectacle around a giant spacemonster man and the hits don't land.

Maybe that's how Thanos felt for you, but I think the at-large consensus is otherwise.

Anyway, it's pointless to try to separate the impact of a movie (or a character) from the surrounding context. You don't think TDK and the Joker gained extra emotional resonance from the tragedy of Ledger's death?
 
...perfect storms are situational. That's what it means. Everything comes together just so.

You still have to execute. Thanos wouldn't have worked if the CGI was bad or even mediocre. He wouldn't have worked if Brolin's performance was either flat or over-the-top. He wouldn't have worked if the writing was bad, which could easily have turned him into another boring cliche spout like Malekith or Steppenwolf.

If they'd dropped the ball Thanos could have been another Doomsday, killing heroes with nobody caring because he's not really a character and he brings no emotional weight to the proceedings.

Fortunately they threaded the needle and the Thanos character fulfilled the movie's potential.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, and in this case each is feeding the other. Again, replace Thanos with Doomsday or Steppenwolf, as executed in their respective movies, and suddenly the situation isn't scary anymore even if heroes are dying. If the villain doesn't draw the audience in and make the situation feel real then people start to notice that it's just a bunch of CGI spectacle around a giant spacemonster man and the hits don't land.

Maybe that's how Thanos felt for you, but I think the at-large consensus is otherwise.

Anyway, it's pointless to try to separate the impact of a movie (or a character) from the surrounding context. You don't think TDK and the Joker gained extra emotional resonance from the tragedy of Ledger's death?

What I mean by situational is the situation of people fearing for the lives of their favorite heroes was there from the get-go as soon as word was out that this was the last one for some of the characters. Case in point;

We know: Anyone can die in Avengers: Infinity War.

The Marvel marketing machine has been in overdrive promising death and destruction to fans of the franchise, with screenwriter Stephen McFeely promising, "It’s safe to say we will say farewell to people."

https://mashable.com/2018/04/13/avengers-infinity-war-death-predictions/?europe=true&#RzhgDjsIHOq1

The makers of Avengers: Infinity War are promising that this latest installment in Marvel’s megahit franchise will be the deadliest yet, and with a cast that numbers a few dozen, there is definitely room to cull the superpowered ranks

http://www.vulture.com/2018/04/who-dies-in-avengers-infinity-war-our-guesses.html

Contracts are running out, stars are moving on, and the next two Avengers movies may well be the last we see of some of the MCU’s most familiar faces.

https://www.theringer.com/movies/2018/4/23/17263556/who-will-die-in-avengers-infinity-war

With contracts coming to an end for many of actors behinds the core team of heroes, Infinity War and 2019's Avengers 4 could be the final time audiences see stars such as Robert Downey Jr. as Iron Man and Chris Evans as Captain America. The question remains: will their characters get to ride off into the sunset, or will they meet endings that are a bit more … permanent?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/avengers-infinity-war-deaths-who-will-die-1104928

That's just a handful of a plethora of examples you can find on the Net, not including the countless videos also theorizing the same things. The fear for who will survive didn't come from the threat of Thanos, it came from the knowledge that the time was up for a lot of the stars in this franchise, and the people behind the MCU saying some characters will die.

Of course they had to create a good villain to end these beloved characters to make the final send off movie a great one. I have never disagreed that Thanos wasn't great. But scary? No. Not to me. And not to any consensus I have seen. The only fear I saw for the heroes' safety came from an already existing fear long before we clapped eyes on Thanos in IW. Take your example of the gasps you heard in your movie theater when Tony was stabbed. Had that been Loki or any other villain who stabbed him, I would bet my last cent that the gasps would still have been there in full force, because people went into that movie knowing it was going to be the end for some characters. No matter what villain stabbed him, people would be thinking that could be the end of him there, and gasped as loudly as they did for Thanos doing it because it still meant the same thing. I felt that same tension. I didn't want to see Cap or Tony die. But I knew it was possible. And I was tense for them all through the movie. Not because Thanos was such an intimidating fearsome foe. Because I knew the MCU situation. We all did. We were all on tender hooks about who would make it out alive.

To answer your last question, yes I absolutely believe Ledger's death added some resonance to his performance, and was a publicity boost to TDK. But 10 years later, both his Joker and TDK are still as revered as ever. Showing, like any great movie or performance does, that the quality is there standing the test of time. Any emotional resonance due to Ledger's sad death has long since passed. The movie is standing on its own merits holding its own all these years later. A crutch based on one of the casts' passing only goes so far and lasts so long.
 
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People didn't find Thanos frightening because of the scale. They found him frightening because he's unpredictable in ways that movie villains (including the Joker) usually aren't.

1) Thanos doesn't bend to narrative "rules" that we've all been trained to believe in. When the heroes make big sacrifices or dramatic entrances or clever plans with great teamwork we expect them to succeed. But in IW Thanos is the protagonist, so it's his plans and entrances and sacrifices that pay off.

2) The structure of the movie made it possible, narratively, for any of the heroes to die. When T'Challa gets thrown over the waterfall in Black Panther, no one in the audience thinks he's dead; it's *his* movie. But in both my viewings when Thanos [BLACKOUT]stabbed Tony[/BLACKOUT] there were audible gasps and shouts because everyone subconsciously knew the movie didn't really need him any more.

3) Thanos takes a measured approach to conflicts in the movie that leaves the audience unsure of how far things are going to go. He tends to start slow (perhaps even by talking) and escalate as he meets resistance; once he's got what he wants, he tends to leave. He's not out for blood but he's fine with killing if that's how it unfolds. That's a different dynamic from most superhero fights, where there's an unstated assumption that the villain is going all out (be it to escape or to kill the hero), and it creates a weird sort of rising tension where the heroes feel more endangered the harder they fight.

4) Thanos' capabilities keep changing and growing as he gets more Stones. So not only is the audience unsure of what Thanos will be willing to do, they also have only a vague idea of what he can do until after he already does it.

5) The state of the MCU, with a lot of big name actors having their contracts ending, made the heroes dying or being otherwise removed plausible in a meta sense.

It's kind of a perfect storm.

Brilliant post. Perfectly sums up my feelings and reaction towards Thanos.
 
Of course meta knowledge kicked in with regards to Black Panther and Spider-Man after the movie but in the moment I was (literally) on the edge of my seat because the movie was subverting my expectations at every turn.

Heath utterly floored me with his performance but I didn't fear for Batman like I did the MCU heroes and that's the truth. Regardless of the situation outside of the movie to get that reaction out of me, it is what it is. As I said I've only felt that level of threat for the heroes in The Matrix and T2.

I've seen performances that have impressed me more: Heath's Joker.

I've seen performances that have scared me more: Hopkin's Lector.

But in all my movie going experience I've never been so fearful for the heroes. There was a moment involving Iron Man and Thanos that made me gasp aloud. I've never done that in a movie before.
 
That's just a handful of a plethora of examples you can find on the Net, not including the countless videos also theorizing the same things. The fear for who will survive didn't come from the threat of Thanos, it came from the knowledge that the time was up for a lot of the stars in this franchise, and the people behind the MCU saying some characters will die.

Of course they had to create a good villain to end these beloved characters to make the final send off movie a great one. I have never disagreed that Thanos wasn't great. But scary? No. Not to me. And not to any consensus I have seen. The only fear I saw for the heroes' safety came from an already existing fear long before we clapped eyes on Thanos in IW. Take your example of the gasps you heard in your movie theater when Tony was stabbed. Had that been Loki or any other villain who stabbed him, I would bet my last cent that the gasps would still have been there in full force, because people went into that movie knowing it was going to be the end for some characters. No matter what villain stabbed him, people would be thinking that could be the end of him there, and gasped as loudly as they did for Thanos doing it because it still meant the same thing. I felt that same tension. I didn't want to see Cap or Tony die. But I knew it was possible. And I was tense for them all through the movie. Not because Thanos was such an intimidating fearsome foe. Because I knew the MCU situation. We all did. We were all on tender hooks about who would make it out alive.

Obviously I won't convince you that you found him scary, and I won't try. But plenty of reviewers and commenters did find him scary, and said so.

https://theplaylist.net/avengers-infinity-war-review-20180424/

While full of frightening malice, Marvel imbues Thanos with a sense of empathy. He bleeds, he cries, he suffers for the painful sins which he believes are necessary. Tough, ultimate decisions are a running theme, and Thanos too is faced with grueling choices. He’s about as layered as a simple villain can be, and his false sense of compassion is truly scary.

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/04/24/avengers-infinity-war-spoiler-free-review-thanos-rises/

This brilliantly computerized adversary is an unstoppable force. He never so much as blinks at any one character’s plot armor, providing a feeling of stakes which has become a rarity in comic book films. Josh Brolin is truly terrifying in the part, in more ways than one. He is a purple Titan masterfully delivered with chilling touches of humanity, but one that constantly maintains the capability of reaping chaos as easily as he can snap his fingers.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/avengers-infinity-war-review/

Laying the major focus on Thanos’ quest for the Infinity Stones, how he justifies that lust for power, and what it costs him, helps the whole story work without getting lost in its individual moving parts. It also makes Brolin’s Thanos a villain scary enough, and deep enough, to warrant so much ado over his arrival.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/life/04/25/...thanos-the-highlight-of-avengers-infinity-war

Movie review: Terrifying Thanos the highlight of 'Avengers: Infinity War'

https://www.theringer.com/movies/2018/4/30/17301676/avengers-infinity-war-exit-survey

He’s an excellent villain. Scary because of his fanatical devotion to annihilating half the universe’s population, but also more complex than your average genocidal maniac—you almost get where he’s coming from.

https://www.eonline.com/news/930450...-reviews-highlight-thanos-and-real-sacrifices

It's another factor that enables Brolin to build a character worthy of pity and terror. Thanos is a Marvel villain for the ages thanks to the actor, who gives this Mad Titan a tragic dimension and damn near steals the movie.

http://www.kentwired.com/latest_updates/article_b8f370be-4b0d-11e8-8a2c-4b5b5eff00d9.html

Thanos is, undoubtedly, the most frightening Marvel Cinematic Universe villain to date. With each word and fight scene, it genuinely feels like no one is safe.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidi...s-goes-straight-for-the-jugular/#7504cdd530bd

The film establishes a darker tone from the very first scene, as piles of mutilated alien corpses mark the arrival of a truly intimidating villain, one who isn’t remotely interested in cracking one-liners, or making pop-culture references.

https://***********/eeisenberg/stat...finity-war-social-media-reactions-thanos-mvp/

Holy Hell. Avengers: Infinity War is the real deal. Was left breathless sitting in the theater. Real consequences, stunning moments, awesome character interaction, and some BIG and often devastating surprises. Oh, and Thanos is terrifying and amazing. Damn.

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-avengers-infinity-war/ Starting at about 25:50.

He's actually quite frightening, and not just in his physical stature...you don't know what he's gonna do.


I could have easily posted another 10 examples of reviewers directly referring to Thanos as "scary" or some synonym thereof, and easily posted another 10 where they talk around the fact that he's scary without directly hanging the adjective on him.

I guess you could argue that it's really the situation they all found scary and not Thanos himself, but as I've implied I believe that's a false distinction.


To answer your last question, yes I absolutely believe Ledger's death added some resonance to his performance, and was a publicity boost to TDK. But 10 years later, both his Joker and TDK are still as revered as ever. Showing, like any great movie or performance does, that the quality is there standing the test of time. Any emotional resonance due to Ledger's sad death has long since passed. The movie is standing on its own merits holding its own all these years later. A crutch based on one of the casts' passing only goes so far and lasts so long.

I don't think something like that ever truly fades; not for the original wave of fans. First impressions color all future impressions. Obviously new viewers won't have those associations...and therefore I won't be at all surprised in another 10 years when we find that Thanos is the one winning these polls and dominating all these discussions, and the new next great villain is just making his debut.
 
People didn't find Thanos frightening because of the scale. They found him frightening because he's unpredictable in ways that movie villains (including the Joker) usually aren't.

1) Thanos doesn't bend to narrative "rules" that we've all been trained to believe in. When the heroes make big sacrifices or dramatic entrances or clever plans with great teamwork we expect them to succeed. But in IW Thanos is the protagonist, so it's his plans and entrances and sacrifices that pay off.

2) The structure of the movie made it possible, narratively, for any of the heroes to die. When T'Challa gets thrown over the waterfall in Black Panther, no one in the audience thinks he's dead; it's *his* movie. But in both my viewings when Thanos [BLACKOUT]stabbed Tony[/BLACKOUT] there were audible gasps and shouts because everyone subconsciously knew the movie didn't really need him any more.

3) Thanos takes a measured approach to conflicts in the movie that leaves the audience unsure of how far things are going to go. He tends to start slow (perhaps even by talking) and escalate as he meets resistance; once he's got what he wants, he tends to leave. He's not out for blood but he's fine with killing if that's how it unfolds. That's a different dynamic from most superhero fights, where there's an unstated assumption that the villain is going all out (be it to escape or to kill the hero), and it creates a weird sort of rising tension where the heroes feel more endangered the harder they fight.

4) Thanos' capabilities keep changing and growing as he gets more Stones. So not only is the audience unsure of what Thanos will be willing to do, they also have only a vague idea of what he can do until after he already does it.

5) The state of the MCU, with a lot of big name actors having their contracts ending, made the heroes dying or being otherwise removed plausible in a meta sense.

It's kind of a perfect storm.

I'll second that this post does a very good job at describing why Thanos worked.
 
Obviously I won't convince you that you found him scary, and I won't try. But plenty of reviewers and commenters did find him scary, and said so.

https://theplaylist.net/avengers-infinity-war-review-20180424/

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/04/24/avengers-infinity-war-spoiler-free-review-thanos-rises/

https://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/avengers-infinity-war-review/

http://news.abs-cbn.com/life/04/25/...thanos-the-highlight-of-avengers-infinity-war

https://www.theringer.com/movies/2018/4/30/17301676/avengers-infinity-war-exit-survey

https://www.eonline.com/news/930450...-reviews-highlight-thanos-and-real-sacrifices

http://www.kentwired.com/latest_updates/article_b8f370be-4b0d-11e8-8a2c-4b5b5eff00d9.html


https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidi...s-goes-straight-for-the-jugular/#7504cdd530bd


https://***********/eeisenberg/stat...finity-war-social-media-reactions-thanos-mvp/


http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-avengers-infinity-war/ Starting at about 25:50.

I could have easily posted another 10 examples of reviewers directly referring to Thanos as "scary" or some synonym thereof, and easily posted another 10 where they talk around the fact that he's scary without directly hanging the adjective on him.

I guess you could argue that it's really the situation they all found scary and not Thanos himself, but as I've implied I believe that's a false distinction.

I don't think something like that ever truly fades; not for the original wave of fans. First impressions color all future impressions. Obviously new viewers won't have those associations...and therefore I won't be at all surprised in another 10 years when we find that Thanos is the one winning these polls and dominating all these discussions, and the new next great villain is just making his debut.

Quoting a bunch of reviews that called him scary unfortunately doesn't mean anything, as its common place for reviewers to describe good villains who are not actually scary in such terms. Let me cite another recent example from a movie you yourself have stated audiences felt no fear for the hero in;

Killmonger is undoubtedly scary and will end your life without a first, second or third thought, but his heart is actually in the right place.

https://www.inverse.com/article/40974-marvel-black-panther-review

Killmonger was a terrifying and ruthless villain with an ideal that was real.

https://www.express.co.uk/entertain...urn-sequel-Michael-B-Jordan-Marvel-MCU-comics

Played by Michael B. Jordan, Erik Stevens (a.k.a. N’Jadaka, a.k.a. Killmonger) is a formidable scary foe

https://www.avclub.com/black-panther-finally-gives-marvel-the-supervillain-it-1823143400

Michael B. Jordan is scary and intense as Killmonger.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=...7-story.html&usg=AOvVaw3WxDKUsLQXFHpujIi1RZ3B

Jordan's Killmonger is truly scary and menacing. There’s a terrifying level of calmness and certainty of purpose in the way he enacts his plans

https://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/black-panther-review/

Killmonger's greed and lack of feeling toward life make him a terrifying villain and a real threat

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=...df63681.html&usg=AOvVaw3cNjkZKPSP_XdGKBBPSjPc

With relatable and sympathetic motives, Jordan's Killmonger makes for a scary and intriguing villain unlike any previously seen in the Marvel Universe.

https://www.flickfilosopher.com/2018/02/black-panther-movie-review-absolute-marvel.html

Again that's just a handful I scooped up on a quick Google search. Plenty more if you want to see them. You see reviewers they do that for a lot of movie villains who are great buy not actually scary. Describe them as scary presences. Just because I was able to scoop up all those reviews that say Killmonger was scary and terrifying doesn't mean there's any big consensus out there that thinks so.

So I stand firmly by what I said before. I believe it was the situation created long before IW came out where fans were already fearful for the fate of their favorite heroes. Not Thanos himself. Fans were already on edge going in to IW for who will survive it. The villain didn't create the fear and tension, the situation did.

Regarding your Ledger point, it most definitely fades. Certainly to the point where it has no impact on a movie's status or a performance 10 years later. A movie or a performance has to be able to stand on the strength of their own quality. They can't continually do that with huge unwavering support if that quality is not there. Its called standing the test of time. The fact people still revere both Ledger's Joker and TDK as strongly as if we were still back in 2008 is proof positive of the staying power of them. I feel utterly confident to say that in 10 years they will still be as highly regarded as they are today, and as they were back in 2008. A true great never fades.
 
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Quoting a bunch of reviews that called him scary unfortunately doesn't mean anything, as its common place for reviewers to describe good villains who are not actually scary in such terms. Let me cite another recent example from a movie you yourself have stated audiences felt no fear for the hero in;

Sorry, but this is just a dead end. You're not gonna prove or even successfully imply that people didn't find Thanos scary by proving that they did find Killmonger scary. That's a non-starter. I didn't say that Killmonger couldn't be scary, I said people didn't believe T'Challa was dead. That's not the same thing. (And if you believed it was the same thing, you'd have to admit that the Joker wasn't scary either. No one watching TDK fears for Batman's life even before the Joker disavows any intent to kill him).

The point isn't that the audience needs to believe the hero can die to find the villain scary, the point is that the fact that they do believe it in IW is one factor that gives Thanos extra heat.

(And if it's really the case that every great, popular villain will have large numbers of reviewers calling them scary, then show me all the reviews calling Loki scary.)

So I stand firmly by what I said before. I believe it was the situation created long before IW came out where fans were already fearful for the fate of their favorite heroes. Not Thanos himself. Fans were already on edge going in to IW for who will survive it. The villain didn't create the fear and tension, the situation did.

The situation didn't exist before Thanos did. The marketing, the online discussion...Thanos was always at the center.
 
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