Black Panther or Ant-Man?

[Spider-Fan]

That doesn't really respond to the comment you quoted, but the comment before that one. Yes, if they worked subatomic particles into the storyline, that would give him a reason to be there, but the problem I referred to would remain. Screen time, screen time quality.

It really isn't that hard to do given the right story. Hawkeye was in Avengers not all that much, but he was given quality screentime when he was there. Same can easily be done with Ant-Man, Black Panther, etc. It just takes being creative.

 

[DrCosmic]

Ah... I guess that would be dissatisfying for me. I felt like Hawkeye being given no personal story was a necessary evil, and really only worked because he wasn't an Avenger until the end of the film. I definitely wouldn't want to see more characters done that way. I want them all to have stories and relationships with the other teammates. That takes screentime *and* creativity, not just creativity.

 

[metaphysician]

IMO, they did a pretty good job of giving Hawkeye characterization in his limited time. Yes, they didn't give him huge flashback scenes or whatnot, but they definitely gave the audience a sense of his character and personality, *if they paid attention.*

 

[DrCosmic]

They did a great job of making him cool, without allowing us to get into the character. Pretty much how they did Black Widow in IM2.

I mean would you guys enjoy a film like that, where 2-3 avengers get full stories like Cap/Thor/Hulk/IM/BW did and 4+ Avengers just get a couple cool, but not epic moments, and no personal story or development, like Hawkeye? Am I the only one that would be disappointed by that? And if so, what 2-3 Avengers should get full stories?

 

[Golgo-13]

Black Panther

Nice change from the current slate of MCU characters. This has been talked about by Marvel and co back when Snipes was playing Blade.

I would love for BP to become just as big as Iron Man, who due to his movie, has now turned him into a household name.

I wouldnt mind either way if BP ends up in an Avengers movie or not, but i'd love to see an appearance from SHIELD in his movie just to tie him to the current MCU.

 

[chiefchirpa]

Sorry I'm late honey t:

So... you can speculate about the third draft, but when I do it, it's 'overspeculating?' How does that make any sense?

Of course there will be differences between the original version (60's spy and the focus on Scott Lang -> ) to the modified version (more cohesive to the in-continuity Avengers universe and the focus on Henry Pym).

Actually, I can take a bet on this.

The big boss is certainly is Disney-Marvel, not Edgar Wright. Disney-Marvel could dismiss Edgar Wright if they feel Edgar's vision of the movie doesn't match theirs.

Ah, it does say "four-picture" deal on wikipedia. The source it links to doesn't contain that information, and its found nowhere else on the internet. I find that suspect, but I'm not about to delve into the talk and flag it for lacking a source, so

The source is SHH. Did you click on the link below the Wiki page?

If I ignored it, then how could my point that engineers are scientists possibly apply to him? Why would I say anything about engineers being scientists if Tony wasn't an Engineer?

If there's no distinction of how an engineer and scientist do and perform their job why should I bother talking about them. The car is developed by engineers, the new drug on the market is research and tested by scientists. Of course an engineer has to be very adept in science. But that doesn't make the engineer a scientist.

I thought the definitions and differences between them can be Googled from the Internet, if it's still not obvious enough.

What are you saying here? By dynamics, do you mean continuity? What exactly do you think got 'broken' in The Avengers? Because the characters still function and act the same, with natural growth from their previous appearances.

Iron Man universe is once about pseudo-reality. Everything in the film thought to be explainable by science (which in reality, most of the elements in the movie are not) just like Nolan's Batman. There's no mysticism or magic. Then came Thor. Suddenly magic is now in Iron Man's universe. With Pym in the universe, fantasy science can be as farfetched as magic because Iron Man is always about (thought to be) explainable science. So the whole MCU universe could be filled with new stuff and old holdout like "no magic" in the film-verse can change.

 

[chiefchirpa]

2) Due to 1 I think that heroes, especially in Ant-Man's case, do need a little more exposition. Not 30 mins worth, but a little more than SHIELD agents. And even if they don't need it, I think explaining a character a little is better than just thinking "People will pick up on everything" and just going about the business

Which is the reason Marvel is doing Ant-Man solo movie before Avengers 2

Marvel's Skynet known as Ultron, the villain most likely be present in the Avengers, is made by Ant-Man.

Whereas Hawkeye, is he really that important to the Avengers-verse compared to Pym? I think not. The on-and-off BP is even more not.

 

[chiefchirpa]

he's trying to prove that Stark is not a scientist and Banner is not an expert.

- Stark is an Engineer. Reed, Banner, Parker and Pym are Scientists

http://chemistry.about.com/u/ua/educationemployment/engineervsscientist.htm

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_science_and_engineering

http://www.engineeringpathway.com/ep/k12/k12_sci_eng.jhtml;jsessionid=SUBMDULKJCSKZABAVRSSFEQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientist
"Scientists are also distinct from engineers, those who develop devices that serve practical purposes. "

- Banner is not expert on what? Radiation, he's number #1 and that was said in the movie. Bio-Chem was never said (actually prove that). He couldn't even find a cure by himself in the movie.

Adding Pym in the small stack of geniuses of the MCU won't break the dynamics between them.

 

[DrCosmic]

... no dude. Yes, on the four picture deal, good find, but the rest?

MCU Scientists do make devices for practical purposes. This splitting hairs on the definitions is irrelevant to the context. There are real world differences, yes, but in the MCU, the 'engineer' and the 'scientist' are in the same lab working on the same project... because the differences between an engineer and a scientist are irrelevant. And you're giving me links about scientists that don't make things and engineers who follow the rules.

Let it go. Same with the assumptions you have about Marvel's vision for the Ant-Man franchise. If you're willing to take bets on it, that is by definition speculation - which is fine. But if you're speculating, don't call me overspeculating for going based on the information we've been given about the Ant-Man franchise, because then you become hypocritical. To be fair, I'll let the Banner being an expert on bio-chem go, since they didn't establish that the not having a lab was the only problem in TIH. We'll just go with the Avengers "Stephen Hawking" Gamma Radiation expert.

On pseudo-realism: I'm sorry that you thought there was mysticism and magic in Thor. MCU Thor is science based. He explicitly says they (what you call magic and what you call science) are one and the same in his film and The Avengers characters both verbally and physically reject their status as gods, and Fury repeatedly refers to Thor as an extraterrestrial, without a bit of contention or correction from Thor. And why should he? Thor's accusation is that he "thought humans were more evolved than this." The rainbow bridge is a wormhole for crying out loud. The MCU does not yet have magic, in the sense of something that cannot be explained by pseudo-science, and it certainly doesn't have any mysticism. This is why Feige says he wants to introduce the magic side of the Marvel Universe in Dr. Strange, because he knows they simply haven't shown magic yet. I'm not sure what point you're getting at with this fantasy science, but the old holdout is there and the Asgardians are already doing fantasy science.

Which kinda highlights our main difference in perspective, you're thinking about the MCU as a world, as if it exists somewhere offscreen, that it can be filled (your words) somehow. I'm thinking of the MCU as basically the Avengers movies. If it doesn't make the Avengers movie better, what could possibly be the point in adding it to the MCU? It's not like in comics, where we get to see 50 perspectives on this world every month. We get to see 1 perspective on the MCU as a whole every three years, basically, and that's if everything goes well.

 

[chiefchirpa]

MCU Scientists do make devices for practical purposes. This splitting hairs on the definitions is irrelevant to the context. There are real world differences, yes, but in the MCU, the 'engineer' and the 'scientist' are in the same lab working on the same project... because the differences between an engineer and a scientist are irrelevant. And you're giving me links about scientists that don't make things and engineers who follow the rules.

How do you know that in the MCU the difference between an engineer and scientist is irrelevant? Tony Stark has a specific education and trade: he's an engineer. Advanced Electrical Engineering degree from MIT. Build car engine, motherboard and weapons. He doesn't research the element that saves him, his dad hints that at him. And finally, where in any of the movies those it ever appear that Tony is a scientist, researching for new science discovery ? Being adept in science doesn't mean someone is a scientist.

Most important of all, two science geniuses don't make it a crowd. There's a spot for Pym when there are no Reed Richards, Peter Parker and Hank McCoy available.

Let it go. Same with the assumptions you have about Marvel's vision for the Ant-Man franchise. If you're willing to take bets on it, that is by definition speculation - which is fine. But if you're speculating, don't call me overspeculating for going based on the information we've been given about the Ant-Man franchise, because then you become hypocritical.

I'm just willing to take the bet that the movie has diverged much from the original versions. If you don't see the current storyline different the first draft, that's perfectly ok.

To be fair, I'll let the Banner being an expert on bio-chem go, since they didn't establish that the not having a lab was the only problem in TIH. We'll just go with the Avengers "Stephen Hawking" Gamma Radiation expert.

Yes, radiation expert was spoken in the Avengers. And Stephen Hawking is obviously not an expert in Bio-Chemistry.

On pseudo-realism: I'm sorry that you thought there was mysticism and magic in Thor. MCU Thor is science based. He explicitly says they (what you call magic and what you call science) are one and the same in his film and The Avengers characters both verbally and physically reject their status as gods, and Fury repeatedly refers to Thor as an extraterrestrial, without a bit of contention or correction from Thor. And why should he? Thor's accusation is that he "thought humans were more evolved than this." The rainbow bridge is a wormhole for crying out loud. The MCU does not yet have magic, in the sense of something that cannot be explained by pseudo-science, and it certainly doesn't have any mysticism. This is why Feige says he wants to introduce the magic side of the Marvel Universe in Dr. Strange, because he knows they simply haven't shown magic yet. I'm not sure what point you're getting at with this fantasy science, but the old holdout is there and the Asgardians are already doing fantasy science.

To Tony and the rest of Earth populace it's still magic. Who cares if Thor said its science to Jane Foster, but to Tony and other guys who haven't heard Tony speech it's magic. And magic wielders don't need to be Gods.

Then later on arrive Dr. Strange. Magic will still come to the MCU, with or without Thor.

Which kinda highlights our main difference in perspective, you're thinking about the MCU as a world, as if it exists somewhere offscreen, that it can be filled (your words) somehow. I'm thinking of the MCU as basically the Avengers movies. If it doesn't make the Avengers movie better, what could possibly be the point in adding it to the MCU? It's not like in comics, where we get to see 50 perspectives on this world every month. We get to see 1 perspective on the MCU as a whole every three years, basically, and that's if everything goes well.

MCU = Avengers movie?

Marvel are marketing not just the usual Avengers crew, but more characters and supergroups than we have seen yet. Why are Marvel trying to push Ant-Man out suddenly before any other characters that you said is more interesting? Because they have a game plan. A game plan more ambitious than releasing the first Avengers and rehashing it every 3 years with the same characters on and on.

 

[KangConquers]

Most important of all, two science geniuses don't make it a crowd. There's a spot for Pym when there are no Reed Richards, Peter Parker and Hank McCoy available.

Peter Parker is NOT on that level. There are at least 30-40 Superheroes in the Marvel Universe who are more intelligent than him/ have greater scientific minds. Not to mention tons of villains.

 

[metaphysician]

Arg, no kidding. Reed, Beast, and Spidey don't have anything at all in common for setting relevance. Each one's absence leaves an entirely different and independent opening.

Seriously, the super genius hierarchy of Earth goes something like this:

1. Reed, Doom

2. Nobody, this rank is purely included as a placeholder to establish distance

3. Stark, Pym, Leader, Sinister, the Wizard, maybe one or two others

4. Beast, T'Challa, probably a couple others

5. A whole bunch of limited focus low level geniuses, including Peter Parker

 

[MadVillainy]

I dont get what this about intelligence has to do with BP or Ant-Man movies

 

[KangConquers]

Arg, no kidding. Reed, Beast, and Spidey don't have anything at all in common for setting relevance. Each one's absence leaves an entirely different and independent opening.

Seriously, the super genius hierarchy of Earth goes something like this:

1. Reed, Doom

2. Nobody, this rank is purely included as a placeholder to establish distance

3. Stark, Pym, Leader, Sinister, the Wizard, maybe one or two others

4. Beast, T'Challa, probably a couple others

5. A whole bunch of limited focus low level geniuses, including Peter Parker

Marvel themselves have vaguely counted Reed Richards, Victor Von Doom, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Hank Pym, Hank McCoy, and Amadeus Cho as the 7 smartest men in the world. The Mandarin, Mole Man, Apocalypse, and a few others also fall into the "Super-Genius Range". Black Panther falls into the regular "Genius" category, and Peter Parker, God Bless him, is only counted as "Gifted".

I personally don't see the harm of having multiple, highly intelligent characters. Both Pym and Black Panther are geniuses, and I kind of hate how The Nolan Batman films dumb down Bruce Wayne.

Okay, I'm done spamming this.

 

[DrCosmic]

Arg, no kidding. Reed, Beast, and Spidey don't have anything at all in common for setting relevance. Each one's absence leaves an entirely different and independent opening.

Seriously, the super genius hierarchy of Earth goes something like this:

1. Reed, Doom

2. Nobody, this rank is purely included as a placeholder to establish distance

3. Stark, Pym, Leader, Sinister, the Wizard, maybe one or two others

4. Beast, T'Challa, probably a couple others

5. A whole bunch of limited focus low level geniuses, including Peter Parker

Marvel themselves have vaguely counted Reed Richards, Victor Von Doom, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Hank Pym, Hank McCoy, and Amadeus Cho as the 7 smartest men in the world. The Mandarin, Mole Man, Apocalypse, and a few others also fall into the "Super-Genius Range". Black Panther falls into the regular "Genius" category, and Peter Parker, God Bless him, is only counted as "Gifted".

WHOA. Hold the Phone. T'Challa is one of the 8 smartest, as of fall of the Hulks when the Intelligencia planned to kidnap the 8 smartest men on the planet:

Reed Richards
Dr. Doom
Black Panther
Hank Pym
Hank McCoy
Bruce Banner
Amadeus Cho
Tony Stark

T'Challa is on that level, ever since his creation, he's been the guy that has science conversations with Reed Richards that no one else can have - except Doom of course. His science feats outstrip most of the other guys on that list too, because he's always been a scientific powerhouse, in addition to his other intelligence feats. I thought this was common knowledge, but The Wizard? Peter Parker? C'mon, dude, not for real. Not in 616.

How do you know that in the MCU the difference between an engineer and scientist is irrelevant?

Being adept in science doesn't mean someone is a scientist.

Most important of all, two science geniuses don't make it a crowd. There's a spot for Pym when there are no Reed Richards, Peter Parker and Hank McCoy available.

What spot is that? It's not a universe, it's a film series.

I'm just willing to take the bet that the movie has diverged much from the original versions. If you don't see the current storyline different the first draft, that's perfectly ok.

No, I'm willing to acknowledge the movie has diverged, you are relatively (entirely?) sure it has diverged in a very specific and fundamental way despite all evidence to the contrary.

Yes, radiation expert was spoken in the Avengers. And Stephen Hawking is obviously not an expert in Bio-Chemistry.

So now Banner has Stephen Hawking's expertise? Wowzers.

To Tony and the rest of Earth populace it's still magic. Who cares if Thor said its science to Jane Foster, but to Tony and other guys who haven't heard Tony speech it's magic. And magic wielders don't need to be Gods.

Then later on arrive Dr. Strange. Magic will still come to the MCU, with or without Thor.

Who cares what the unnamed unseen fictional people think? We the audience, and the main characters, all know its not magic - unless you think the Avengers think Thor is a magical alien. Magic hasn't entered into the MCU yet. So, there's no void of fantastical science to fill, it's already filled by Thor.

MCU = Avengers movie?

Marvel are marketing not just the usual Avengers crew, but more characters and supergroups than we have seen yet. Why are Marvel trying to push Ant-Man out suddenly before any other characters that you said is more interesting? Because they have a game plan. A game plan more ambitious than releasing the first Avengers and rehashing it every 3 years with the same characters on and on.

Ambitious? Yes. Like the comics in crossover potential? No. That kind of storytelling doesn't work in movies, and that kind of contract writing is financially wasteful. You have to pay Pym the same amount of money if he's the star of if he does a five minute guest spot. So how many times are you going to have Heroes for Hire or Guardians of the Galaxy go to him for random tech help? Zero times. There is no Richards role in the MCU to fill, other than a wasteful, narratively irresponsible "Pym is off in the microverse, so he can't help" line.

Also, Marvel has been trying to make Ant-Man ever since 2006. They're not trying to push him out suddenly. Where did you get that? They're going at the same pace they always have, and he's ready now. These fancies that you have about what Marvel is doing and pushing, and how they are doing everything "their way," which oddly lines up precisely with your way... it's not good, and it's tiring to trying and ask you for sources and question your logic to illustrate to you how you just made it up and imagined that's what they want. You don't see that there's no bridge between 'they have an ambitious plan' and 'they need a Reed Richards.' You're just flying from place to place. I don't really know how to show any more clearly than I have, so I think we may just need to agree to disagree. What do you think?

 

[MadVillainy]

All I know is don't give Jan and Hank their personalities of thier Earth's Mightiest Heroes counterparts. I HATE them in that

 

[chiefchirpa]

WHOA. Hold the Phone. T'Challa is one of the 8 smartest, as of fall of the Hulks when the Intelligencia planned to kidnap the 8 smartest men on the planet:

Reed Richards
Dr. Doom
Black Panther
Hank Pym
Hank McCoy
Bruce Banner
Amadeus Cho
Tony Stark

T'Challa is on that level, ever since his creation, he's been the guy that has science conversations with Reed Richards that no one else can have - except Doom of course. His science feats outstrip most of the other guys on that list too, because he's always been a scientific powerhouse, in addition to his other intelligence feats. I thought this was common knowledge, but The Wizard? Peter Parker? C'mon, dude, not for real. Not in 616.

May I see your BP fan membership card?

Sorry but I can't help to laugh at WHOA overreaction.

Reed Richards
Dr. Doom
Black Panther

Haha. Is this it... are you secretly jealous of the Scientist Supreme you put him 4th on the list? Below Reginald Hudlin's Gary Stu? This is the real Stu unlike what Dan Slott has done so little in Secret Avengers.

What's that, just a scene where two guys who knows science in a room together. Never mind Tony wasn't doing any thing scientific on that scene.

It's that agreement or anything?

What spot is that? It's not a universe, it's a film series.

Spot for another genius in the MCU. The U stands for universe and it's an appellation coined by fans, er wait Kevin Feige itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Cinematic_Universe

No, I'm willing to acknowledge the movie has diverged, you are relatively (entirely?) sure it has diverged in a very specific and fundamental way despite all evidence to the contrary.

All evidences? There are no obvious evidence other than script has be rewritten many times. Based on Thor, rewriting script means more than slight deviations than the original script.

So now Banner has Stephen Hawking's expertise? Wowzers.

Hello.. you're the one bringing Hawking in the conversation and I said he's not a biochemist so your comments are non-sequitur. Wowzers.

Who cares what the unnamed unseen fictional people think? We the audience, and the main characters, all know its not magic - unless you think the Avengers think Thor is a magical alien. Magic hasn't entered into the MCU yet. So, there's no void of fantastical science to fill, it's already filled by Thor.

Fine. Dr Strange will bring the magik.

BTW, good rebuttal. Sincerely.

Ambitious? Yes. Like the comics in crossover potential? No. That kind of storytelling doesn't work in movies, and that kind of contract writing is financially wasteful. You have to pay Pym the same amount of money if he's the star of if he does a five minute guest spot. So how many times are you going to have Heroes for Hire or Guardians of the Galaxy go to him for random tech help? Zero times. There is no Richards role in the MCU to fill, other than a wasteful, narratively irresponsible "Pym is off in the microverse, so he can't help" line.

Why do you say Pym need to be in most MCU movies like Nick Fury.

There is no binding requirement that all characters in the MCU has to be present in all/most movies. But most MCU movies are meant to be happening in the same universe where crossover is a delight more than a bummer. I think that should be clear to all fans of Marvel Studios movies not someone who just argues anything for the heck of it.

You're just flying from place to place. I don't really know how to show any more clearly than I have, so I think we may just need to agree to disagree. What do you think?

I agree, we may need to agree to disagree. Tiring? Don't think so.

You don't seem amused to see Ant Man going through the production line first than Black Panther and I still don't know why we have gone round and round because I (personally) just have the opinion Ant-Man will go first. I have an opinion, you have an opinion and that's just about it.

And Marvel seems to agree with me. Early reports insinuate that Ant-Man will be developed first, not Dr Strange and BP

Also, Marvel has been trying to make Ant-Man ever since 2006. They're not trying to push him out suddenly. Where did you get that?

Thank you so much, as this go back like a nice round circle to my earliest reasoning why Ant-Man might be produced earlier than the rest of the non-sequels.

 

[chiefchirpa]

Marvel themselves have vaguely counted Reed Richards, Victor Von Doom, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Hank Pym, Hank McCoy, and Amadeus Cho as the 7 smartest men in the world. The Mandarin, Mole Man, Apocalypse, and a few others also fall into the "Super-Genius Range". Black Panther falls into the regular "Genius" category, and Peter Parker, God Bless him, is only counted as "Gifted".

I personally don't see the harm of having multiple, highly intelligent characters. Both Pym and Black Panther are geniuses, and I kind of hate how The Nolan Batman films dumb down Bruce Wayne.

Okay, I'm done spamming this.

T'Challa is a super genius, among the 7th. I think Cho is more of the eight now. He's beneath Pym though in terms of science because that's what Pym only do: science. Fortunately science is not Panther's only stuff. He's also a cunning strategist, good diplomat, and very adept martial artist. Most important of all, T'Challa is a king (once and will be again)

Edit: Yeah, look what I found
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/43469/2130751-hank_vs_cho.jpg

And Tony Stark is not definitely below Amadeus Cho. RDJ below Cho? Blasphemy.

 

[chiefchirpa]

Peter Parker is NOT on that level. There are at least 30-40 Superheroes in the Marvel Universe who are more intelligent than him/ have greater scientific minds. Not to mention tons of villains.

Sorry I was talking about their mastery in bio chemistry.

 

[DrCosmic]

May I see your BP fan membership card?

Sorry but I can't help to laugh at WHOA overreaction.

[Produces Card]

I can't let my boy go out like that. Peter Parker??? Get outta here. Though they are trying to put Peter on that list nowadays, he's not there yet.

Haha. Is this it... are you secretly jealous of the Scientist Supreme you put him 4th on the list? Below Reginald Hudlin's Gary Stu? This is the real Stu unlike what Dan Slott has done so little in Secret Avengers.

Is this what? Ask me what you want to ask me. For instance, I didn't put the list in any order, I copy pasted it from here. I don't get jealous of fictional characters. And yes, Reginald Hudlin's character was a Gary Stu, certainly not my favorite take. I'm glad Hudlin didn't give him so crazy title that other writers throughout the marvel universe were supposed to stick to somehow.

What's that, just a scene where two guys who knows science in a room together. Never mind Tony wasn't doing any thing scientific on that scene.

Well, among other things, he's experimenting on Banner. Also, he came up with the science alongside Banner, and is letting Banner do the application part, you know, what a real world Engineer would do.

It's that agreement or anything?

You basically said he does science but he's not a scientist. That's why I think it's irrelevant, if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, acts like a duck, it really doesn't matter if it tastes like a duck or not.

Spot for another genius in the MCU. The U stands for universe and it's an appellation coined by fans, er wait Kevin Feige itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Cinematic_Universe

It's not an actual universe. There are no people there, and they don't have needs, because it doesn't exist. It is a story, played out only in several films. If the films don't have the spot, then the universe doesn't have a spot or need or whatever. We revisit this later, the question about the nature of a cinematic universe.

All evidences? There are no obvious evidence other than script has be rewritten many times. Based on Thor, rewriting script means more than slight deviations than the original script.

If you're basing on Thor, which changed directors and writers, then your comparison is uninformed. When new writers/directors come on board, they make major changes to the script if at all possible. When the same writer and director refine a script, they do not overhaul the idea that made them want to do the movie in the first place.

Outside of logic, you have the initial report of a 60s spy ant-man, and the most recent report (Nov 2011, just before the third draft was turned in), of a standalone film. It's obvious, but in the minds of wishful fans, Marvel won't stand for it, even though all of this happened on their watch with their complete complicity.

Hello.. you're the one bringing Hawking in the conversation and I said he's not a biochemist so your comments are non-sequitur. Wowzers.

Non-sequitur? What other reason could you possibly have said Hawking wasn't a biochem specialist other than to illustrate that Banner is not a Biochem specialist? If so, then logically, you, not Ihave drawn a connection between Hawking's specialty and Banner's.

Fine. Dr Strange will bring the magik.

BTW, good rebuttal. Sincerely.

Thank you, and I have no doubt that he will.

Why do you say Pym need to be in most MCU movies like Nick Fury.

There is no binding requirement that all characters in the MCU has to be present in all/most movies. But most MCU movies are meant to be happening in the same universe where crossover is a delight more than a bummer. I think that should be clear to all fans of Marvel Studios movies not someone who just argues anything for the heck of it.

What I said was zero. Heroes will be in their movies and their team up movies, because of the nature of contracts and cinematic storytelling. A crossover would be a delight, yes, that's why we have the Avengers franchise. That does not mean that Marvel Studios will blow millions of dollars on cameos, or that non fans will suddenly enjoy movies where anyone can just come bail the hero out. I keep wanting to say naive, but I think it's appropriate here, where you feel as though, because fans will like something, it is not only in Marvel's plans but will most certainly happen. That's kinda 'perfect world' thinking.

I agree, we may need to agree to disagree. Tiring? Don't think so.

You don't seem amused to see Ant Man going through the production line first than Black Panther and I still don't know why we have gone round and round because I (personally) just have the opinion Ant-Man will go first. I have an opinion, you have an opinion and that's just about it.

And Marvel seems to agree with me. Early reports insinuate that Ant-Man will be developed first, not Dr Strange and BP

Thank you so much, as this go back like a nice round circle to my earliest reasoning why Ant-Man might be produced earlier than the rest of the non-sequels.

Everytime you say we have different opinions, you're wrong. That's kinda funny. Ant-Man will be first, and might even be the only new hero out before Avengers 2. Feige and Wright said they're closer than ever. They debunked the Dr. Strange script rumor. That settles it for me. I'm not relying on the opinions of fans backing up my opinions to tell me what Marvel will do. I just listen to what they say. My opinion rarely comes to mind, which is probably why you have to guess at it, because it seems pretty irrelevant to the conversation about what will happen.

Not only that, I will enjoy Ant-Man immensely, as I do all of Edgar Wright's films. Because it's a superhero flick, I will likely see it opening night with my buddies. I will not be upset about Black Panther not coming out first. Why would I?

But when it turns out that it's a standalone film, not connected to the MCU, set in the 60s... I won't be surprised, or disappointed, or feel like Marvel let me down or anything like that. Because they told me what it was going to be, several times, over half a decade, a clear illustration that they did not/are not rushing it to meet any deadline whatsoever.

And then all this discussion about Ant-Man being redundant to the MCU will then be moot. It is funny though, you are so entrenched in this idea that Ant-Man's film will be MCU, you mis-attribute my arguments against Ant-Man in the MCU to arguments against the Ant-Man film.

Any other thoughts? Cuz I'm kinda done.

 

[chiefchirpa]

Hey, I'm not done.




Nah, let's call it off. I think we could come up with a better understanding next time. Anyway have a nice day, mate

 

[metaphysician]

You can argue about a lot of the exact placements, but the one thing that cannot be contested: Reed and Doom are at the top, with no one really particularly close to them at all. Even the poorly written "Lets job people out to make Banner look awesome" Intelligensia arc required whole teams of otherwise top tier geniuses to make takedowns on guys like Reed and Doom look even vaguely credible.

 

[DrCosmic]

I want to argue that so bad, but I can't. I think T'Challa was originally written to be of that caliber, but that got lost post-Kirby. I think he's finding it back, though, but now, it's too late to be Reed/Doom level. Same with Pym, they're putting him on that level now, but Reed and Doom have been on that level, and typified by that, for so long, that just by sheer number of science feats it becomes uncredible for anyone else to be actually and literally on their level. But that immense gap between third place is disappearing, and it will continue to shrink in the coming years/decades, just because of everyone else getting 'powered up,' even this department.

Hey, I'm not done.

Nah, let's call it off. I think we could come up with a better understanding next time. Anyway have a nice day, mate

You too homie.

 

[metaphysician]

Honestly, I don't think T'Challa really needs to be at that level, science wise. He has a plenty strong enough niche being Marvel's higher tech Batman.

Pym, eh, Pym is fine as a peer of Stark, as part of the "top tier whose-brain-is-not-a-cosmic-force" set.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Panther.