Black Panther or Ant-Man?

[DrCosmic]

He may not need to be on that level in an ensemble sense, but as an independent character, definitely enjoy him more on that uber-science level. While a higher tech Batman is nothing to sneeze at, T'Challa's entire scope is higher than Batman's, not just tech wise. The only thing he lacks is that sherlock homes-level detective power and the magic "I'm Batman" power.

 

[Artistsean]

I believe that in his first appearence in FF by Kirby he showed that he was at least on level with Reed Richards, or maybe even higher, with his intelligence. He should be around there anyway, maybe lower. I still want Reed to be the smartest man on the planet.

 

[Brawl]

Ah... I guess that would be dissatisfying for me. I felt like Hawkeye being given no personal story was a necessary evil, and really only worked because he wasn't an Avenger until the end of the film. I definitely wouldn't want to see more characters done that way. I want them all to have stories and relationships with the other teammates. That takes screentime *and* creativity, not just creativity.

Agree Hawkeye was weakly done. Really didn't care for the actor that played him and Clint's swagger was nowhere to be seen. Hawkeye doesn't lurk in shadows! He walks around with a lion cloth kicking doors down telling everyone in ear shot how much better he can run the team, at the same time deferring to Cap as "The Man"

I don't see why almost everyone else had a reality based version of their comic costume and yet Hawkeye was given the X-Men 1 black leathers. Hawkeye has such a classic look but it seems the Magenta and Blue combo is too much for Marvel Films ie. Galactus

 

[Brawl]

He may not need to be on that level in an ensemble sense, but as an independent character, definitely enjoy him more on that uber-science level. While a higher tech Batman is nothing to sneeze at, T'Challa's entire scope is higher than Batman's, not just tech wise. The only thing he lacks is that sherlock homes-level detective power and the magic "I'm Batman" power.

T'Challa is not on par detective-level with Bat-Man but that is only because he is coming from a different point of view. BP is first a King and as a king he plans and schemes more than detect. Detecting is more of a reactive skill where as a king you need to be more proactive and lead your country through planning.

 

[metaphysician]

T'Challa is not on par detective-level with Bat-Man but that is only because he is coming from a different point of view. BP is first a King and as a king he plans and schemes more than detect. Detecting is more of a reactive skill where as a king you need to be more proactive and lead your country through planning.

However, in terms of niche, its the closest analog. T'Challa isn't first and foremost a scientist; he's a planner, manipulator, and tactician. Combine that with martial arts and gadgetry, and there you go.

 

[chiefchirpa]

On the city detective part, Marvel has some alternatives:

- Daredevil (with Fox now, I know)
- Moon Knight
- Luke Cage

Batman in his many solo comics is more right at the above guys' alley: crime solving first, strategic ploy later. Batman in JLA comics then present in a different function, similar to Black Panther.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Agree Hawkeye was weakly done. Really didn't care for the actor that played him and Clint's swagger was nowhere to be seen. Hawkeye doesn't lurk in shadows! He walks around with a lion cloth kicking doors down telling everyone in ear shot how much better he can run the team, at the same time deferring to Cap as "The Man"

I don't see why almost everyone else had a reality based version of their comic costume and yet Hawkeye was given the X-Men 1 black leathers. Hawkeye has such a classic look but it seems the Magenta and Blue combo is too much for Marvel Films ie. Galactus

Yeah, I think it would be a little too difficult to explain why Hawkeye had the costume he had while working for SHIELD. All of the others had much easier explanations.

 

[cherokeesam]

....didn't we once have an Ant-Man news & speculation thread here somewhere....? For the life of me, I can't find it anymore....

In any event, CBM posted some kinda-sorta "news" about Ant-Man that seems pretty intriguing:

According to Bleeding Cool, there has recently been a lot of activity in some of London's comic book stores in regards to people hunting down old Ant-Man issues. 'So what?' you ask? Well, it just so happens that these particular stores (Forbidden Planet, Gosh and Orbital) are surrounded both by major movie studio offices and production companies who work on special effects. Judging from the excerpt below, it appears as if these guys are hunting down some research material.

Over the last three weeks, I hear that four separate people have been into Gosh Comics looking for Ant Man comics. Lots of Ant Man comics, in any condition.

Here’s the thing. No one asks for Ant Man comics. Not even, I’m told, when Marvel was still publishing Ant Man comics. Each time the individuals have been asked if it’s for the Edgar Wright and Joe Cornish film and they jump back, spooked, asking how they could possibly know...

Today, the fourth individual had a specific request, wanting reference for Ant Man‘s "echo time locator" from "the old series".

....Sounds suspicious enough to be true. They might be finally gearing up for this movie after all.

 

[DrCosmic]

That's good news.

Does anyone actually know anything about the echo time locator? All I can find are links to this bit of news.

 

[OrangeCloud]

If there's ever a choice between ___ or ___ or BOTH, you always go for both.

 

[HeyBear]

In regards to the above posted story, this is what really stood out to me:

Here’s the thing. No one asks for Ant Man comics. Not even, I’m told, when Marvel was still publishing Ant Man comics.

If this is true, why exactly is an Ant Man film even being considered?

 

[marcvader]

Edgar Wright saught it out.

 

[BatsDC]

Doesn't mean the film wouldn't be succesful. Market it well and produce great trailers (And don't forget 'From the Studio that brought you the Avengers') and people would see it. It doesn't matter if nobody really reads his comics.

 

[spideymouse]

If this is true, why exactly is an Ant Man film even being considered?

Because while Ant-Man comics may not be very popular, the characters Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne are pretty important to the Avengers universe. So important that they deserve a setup movie.

 

[HeyBear]

All good reasons, none of which I will argue against. Thank you very much.

 

[Aztec]

Black Panther by a mile. I think he has a much more compelling and complex backstory that will make him unique to the other Avengers. Marvel Studios has proven that they do unique origins very well; so I think this will work.

Besides do the Avengers really need another "scientific genius"? I feel like Stark and Dr. Banner are enough. And yes Ultron fans there is no reason why it can't be Stark that creates him in the MCU.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

....didn't we once have an Ant-Man news & speculation thread here somewhere....? For the life of me, I can't find it anymore....

In any event, CBM posted some kinda-sorta "news" about Ant-Man that seems pretty intriguing:



....Sounds suspicious enough to be true. They might be finally gearing up for this movie after all.

Why would anyone do this when we have the internet?

 

[cherokeesam]

Black Panther by a mile. I think he has a much more compelling and complex backstory that will make him unique to the other Avengers. Marvel Studios has proven that they do unique origins very well; so I think this will work.

Besides do the Avengers really need another "scientific genius"? I feel like Stark and Dr. Banner are enough. And yes Ultron fans there is no reason why it can't be Stark that creates him in the MCU.

Well yes....yes, there is.

People labor under the mistaken notion that Ultron is just some kind of run-of-the-mill super-duper killer robot that anybody with high tech skill (like Tony) could've created. That COMPLETELY misses the actual importance and substance of the backstory of Ultron and his relationship with Pym.

Know what makes Ultron different from every other killer robot out there? The Oedipus complex. The backstory of Ultron is *entirely* dependent on the fact that he wants to kill his "daddy" (Hank Pym) and have sex with his "mommy" (Janet Van Dyne). Practically every single Ultron storyline --- including the upcoming Ultron War --- hinges upon that warped psychosis.

 

[DrCosmic]

So... Stark-Ultron wants to have sex with Pepper. It's very doable. It's just not comics-accurate. Also, you can't turn a movie into a Pym focus episode. Ultron's motivation and goals have to be a bit more ostentatious than that.

 

[DrCosmic]

Why would anyone do this when we have the internet?

Again I ask: does anyone know what an echo time locator is, because I can't find out a single thing about it on the internet!

 

[marcvader]

Again I ask: does anyone know what an echo time locator is, because I can't find out a single thing about it on the internet!

This smells of hoax, methinks.

 

[cherokeesam]

Again I ask: does anyone know what an echo time locator is, because I can't find out a single thing about it on the internet!

Never heard of it.
My first thought was just a basic kind of echo-locator, basically sonar, which lets you identify objects by sound (a la Daredevil). Dunno if ants actually have that or not, but sounds reasonable enough. But an "echo time locator" sounds like something related to time travel. IF there's anything to this story at all, maybe the whole Pym in the 60s/Lang in modern times story involves actual time travel, but......eh. All of it sounds very iffy.

Plus, I'm not sure why a studio would need to send out go-fers to comic book stores to try to dig up old issues, when Marvel Studios would undeniably *already* have access to the biggest Marvel archive on the planet.....

 

[Aztec]

Well yes....yes, there is.

People labor under the mistaken notion that Ultron is just some kind of run-of-the-mill super-duper killer robot that anybody with high tech skill (like Tony) could've created. That COMPLETELY misses the actual importance and substance of the backstory of Ultron and his relationship with Pym.

Know what makes Ultron different from every other killer robot out there? The Oedipus complex. The backstory of Ultron is *entirely* dependent on the fact that he wants to kill his "daddy" (Hank Pym) and have sex with his "mommy" (Janet Van Dyne). Practically every single Ultron storyline --- including the upcoming Ultron War --- hinges upon that warped psychosis.

Easy fix. Ultron has daddy issues with Stark. How appropriate would that be considering Tony's own daddy issues with Howard? Or the overall daddy issues throughout the MCU: Thor- Odin, Loki-Odin, Tony-Howard, Cap-Howard, Cap-Erskine, Banner-Ross. Talk about coming full circle. I think this makes MORE sense. And as far as sexual desire goes...what about Pepper?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

That's a hard damn choice, but from a cinematic standpoint, I'd go with Black Panther before Ant-Man. Black Panther would be an almost guaranteed sale; you've got exotic locations and cultures, a fantastic adventure, a really cool character with a really cool costume, and you've got the first real black superhero for Marvel Studios. (Nick Fury is great and all, but we haven't actually seen him become an actual "superhero" yet --- although I'm sure Avengers will reveal him to be more than just a badass ops director with a cool eyepatch and scars.)

I'd slightly disagree with that. Storm kinda wears that crown in terms of being the first "real" black superhero for Marvel--or Comicdom period. I think BP predates her in terms of debut, but not by much--and certainly not in comparision of noteriety.

However, Storm (Halle Berry's version) does not exist in this Marvel film universe, so I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[Dark Raven]

Easy fix. Ultron has daddy issues with Stark. How appropriate would that be considering Tony's own daddy issues with Howard? Or the overall daddy issues throughout the MCU: Thor- Odin, Loki-Odin, Tony-Howard, Cap-Howard, Cap-Erskine, Banner-Ross. Talk about coming full circle. I think this makes MORE sense. And as far as sexual desire goes...what about Pepper?

So wait... instead of Jan being naked in Ultron's lab on the operating table and her essence being transferred into Jocasta, you want Pepper to be naked on that table instead?