Bought it? Thought it? Post it! (Spoil it!) BT 2/2/11

[TheCorpulent1]

Wait, the magic mojo protect people from ever discovering Peter's secret identity? I thought it was just a one-time thing that erased the knowledge from his earlier unmasking...

Also, people criticize Brubaker all over for the underwhelming threats of Secret Avengers. Not sure where you're getting that Brubaker is somehow beyond reproach.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Yes but the Secret Avengers deal is new. It's actually the first heavy criticisms I've heard about Brubaker when Captain America had the same issues for the year or so I read it. Bucky's story just kept dragging on and he kept fighting AIM people or whatever with an occassional scene of Red Skull or Sin or something. I've now recently heard more complaints about his Cap run and his X-Men run's been criticized a lot more since people have grown frustrated with Secret Avengers.

Also, he went through a spirt where he had two beginnings to a story... someone dies or someone comes back from the dead, and oftentimes both somewhere during the story.

Bucky's back, Nomad's dead
Early generation X-Men back, Banshee's dead
D'Ken's back, D'Ken's dead
Previous Iron Fist is back, Previous Iron Fist is dead

Fortunately, to the best of my knowledge, he's gotten beyond that, but that was also something people seemed to accept from Bru but criticize Bendis for.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Captain America is as much an espionage character as a bright and shiny superhero, so lower-level threats work just fine for him. It's not like Brubaker's been afraid to use the big guns, though. He started his run off with the cosmic cube and the Red Skull--two major Captain America staples--playing huge roles. He started Secret Avengers off with an interesting premise but wrote it as a low-key espionage story, and now people are realizing that what worked so well for Brubaker in Cap definitely does not translate as well to an Avengers comic. It seems like the powerhouses were just for show, too, since they've been all but totally absent from his current (stupid) ninja arc.

I wouldn't characterize Bucky's story as dragging, either. It's long, yes, but it's well paced. The story is about Bucky's redemption and redemption is something that shouldn't be rushed. If it is, you wind up with utter boos*** like Hal Jordan being absolved of his entire time as Parallax with the invention of a space bug.

The only real complaint I've had with Brubaker's Cap run is his treatment of Baron Zemo, and I voiced that ad nauseam when that arc was going on. Other than that, I've enjoyed his Cap pretty consistently. The same can't be said of Bendis' comics or, indeed, many of Brubaker's other comics. His X-Men work--especially Deadly Genesis--got torn to shreds around here pretty consistently as I recall, people have been complaining about the low-key tone of his Secret Avengers from a couple issues into the first arc, etc. I don't think complaints about various aspects of Brubaker's work are anything new. His Cap just avoids a lot of it because it's really, really good like 99% of the time.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I read from Civil War through maybe 7 or 8 issues after Bucky took up the mantle and I was seriously bored to tears. It didn't feel paced well at all; after he took up the mantle more specifically. It wasn't fantastic before that but it wasn't bad either.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, different people have different tastes. You love Bendis' Avengers comics too, remember?

 

[JewishHobbit]

I wouldn't say love but I do enjoy them. My defending Benids is typically more along the lines of pointing out either A) double standards with other writers, B) people who have never actually read the book and complain about it, or C) people who read it 4 years ago and still talk about how crappy it is.

If you remember correctly I was probably the biggest basher of Bendis's Siege storyline and specifically his New Avengers part of it and the continuity errors involved.

I won't criticize current things I know nothing about and I don't see why other people do the same thing. I don't know a thing about Brubaker's current Captain America stuff so I won't criticize it. If I criticize it it's for a specific purpose at a specific time. It's like the people who complain about how much they hate the Red Hulk because of how rediculous it was that he punched a Watcher. Fact is, he's since evolved and is now being written by a new writer (Jeff Parker) who I hear is doing great things with him. Same thing with Bendis's Avengers.

 

[runawayboulder]

Bendis is the most over-rated writer ever. He's treated like he's a Claremont or Miller in their prime but he's slightly above average at best.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I agree actually. As a writer I'm not horribly impressed but typically I like his ideas. As others have said often, it's his execution that's not always amazing... at least when it comes to his Avengers line. The only other thing I've read by him is Daredevil and I loved every single issue of that run.

But mostly, I like the Avengers because I love a majority of the Avengers (mostly on the New Avengers).

 

[Dread]

I actually didn't know that the OMIT deal was not only that everyone who knew Peter's identity "forgot" it, but that NOBODY can ever re-learn it. OMIT was a Joe Quesada thing, though, not Slott. I'll see where things go with the next issue.

It would be cool if Doc Ock worked at Horizon. Ironically, he used to know who Spidey was in the 90's, but forgot after he was resurrected by the Hand.

I have gotten on Brubaker's case a few times. I nitpicked CAPTAIN AMERICA REBIRTH a bit, for instance. And I never liked DEADLY GENESIS.

I read so much Bendis material that I don't see the point of wasting more money just to see if he improved. Dude, no. I gave NEW AVENGERS almost 40 issues. I gave USM over 100 issues. That's more than fair.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Iron Man Legacy #11

An okay ending to this story; but, the battle scene at the beginning is a bit of a letdown. Tony calls in the Illuminati to fight The Pride, and The Pride get their collective butts handed to them. The second half of the issue is tying up the story. Still, I enjoyed this book much more than Fraction's Invincible Iron Man. But, if it's the final issue, I can't say I'll miss it a whole lot. I'd love to see Van Lente on the main Iron Man title; as, these Untold stories are nice, but you don't feel like you're getting essential reading.

DC Universe Online Legends #1

I seriously debated getting into another twice-a-month DC title...especially since Brightest Day isn't even over for another few months; but, I had to see what the book is like. Surprisingly, I enjoyed it quite a bit! It's all very What-If-ish...but, Wolfman and Bedard do a good job telling the story. In this, Luthor and other villians have teamed up with Brainiac to take down Earth's heroes...only to discover they've been betrayed. Brainiac isn't going to hold up his end of the bargain; and, that leads Luthor to get request that villian and hero team up to take down a common enemy.

Good first issue; but, here is my fear: This book, like all the others before it (i.e. 52, Countdown, Brightest Day), will just be dragged out for a full year in, where it could EASILY have been a nice, packed 12-issue story. Now, here's the problem: I liked this first issue well enough to grab the next...and, I know by the time I'm getting frustrated with the pace, I'll be a good 10 issues into it and feel the need to complete my collection.

Ah, what to do. I know what I'll end up doing, because I'm just too weak to say no.

Invincible Iron Man #500.1

HUGE disappointment!!!

Marvel is trying to tell readers how this is the perfect jumping on point; but, all this issue does is give a very quick recap of Tony/Iron Man's history. Set in an AA meeting, Tony tells his story of alcoholism by not really revealing all to the other AA members (the truth is told in pictures, while Tony leaves out the details) ... and, in fact, Fraction makes Tony come across as a real *****e who acts llike he's above the other people attending the meeting. For people who want to know what's been happening with this character, they'd be much better served picking up one of the excellent Handbooks that have come out for this character; because this just feels like less-than a Cliff Notes version. Hell, it doesn't even set up the next storyline! In that way, nothing screams "BUY THE NEXT ISSUE" to the casual reader.

One issue in, and Marvel's .1 promotion already feels like a resounding failure.

Thor: For Asgard #6

I don't know. Something about the conclusions to various storylines and minis have just disappointed me this week. I've been enjoying this story; but, the conclusion has me scratching my head. Maybe I just read WAAAY too many books, and I'm missing something that I've forgotten..but, parts of the book confused the heck out of me. Plus, as another reviewer explained, this story doesn't really conclude.

Still, I enjoyed this book a WHOLE LOT more than Fraction's Thor. (Can we really imagine getting anything worse?)

Deadpool/Cable #26

Yeah, this isn't Way's Deadpool...but, that doesn't mean it's much better. In fact, this book just felt like the .1 version of Deadpool And Cable, as much of the issue is a recap of Nate and Wade's history together. I will say, it was neat remember stuff I completely forgot...like Cable making his own Utopia, and it quickly being forgotten about by Marvel all these years later. It's just the jokes didn't make me laugh. Remender does a much better job in Uncanny X-Force with this character; and, I have enjoyed some writer's versions in Deadpool Team-Up.

Time Vanishers #6

This mini started out great; but, the final issue was a big disappointment. Doesn't help that The Search For Batman concluded months ago; but, this book wasn't really about that, even though the cover of this final issue makes it seem to be. The finale is just a promotion for the continuing adventures of Booster and company in his solo title; and, the conclusion to the search for Batman isn't even mentioned in the end of this book.

Brightest Day #19

Like I mentioned before, this book is just another that is slowly being dragged out; but, at least the end is near. We do learn a few things in this issue. It's just that I don't really care. I guess Green Arrow's forest will play an important role to what happens next; and, that probably explains why that title has also been dragging its butt, too.

It's maddening. At times I think DC has figured out what we want; and, then we end up getting the same old crap over and over again. Worse yet is that with their sales starting to catch up with Marvel, they will think what they are doing doesn't need to change. (More to the point, though, is Marvel's sales are starting to slip down to DC's. It's all how you spin it, though.)

 

[TheCorpulent1]

What confused you in For Asgard?

 

[Dread]

One issue in, and Marvel's .1 promotion already feels like a resounding failure.

At this point I think Marvel has already tanked their intention of the .1 comics. Quite a few of them are being written by people who are not the main creative team, and essentially become annuals (or, as some cynics might claim, a fill in issue) under another name.

Still, I will be getting a few of them on the titles I actually read.

Glad I jumped ship on IIM, finally. I haven't missed it at all. THOR is one modestly heavy week away from a similar fate.

 

[kguillou]

Its hard to believe Fraction is the same guy who wrote that incredibly beautiful one shot of Spider-man a few years ago that dealt with Peter and MJ's love for one another....right before they were yanked apart in OMD.

 

[Dread]

It's hard to believe Fraction is the same guy who wrote THE ORDER masterfully for ten issues...before tanking it before an inevitable cancellation to launch INVINCIBLE IRON MAN. Naturally, his co-writing credit on IMMORTAL IRON FIST gets rave reviews. And naturally everyone says CASANOVA is brilliant and it probably is - creators tend to put in more energy for their own babies (understandably).

The irony is Fraction barely even touts his own stories in his newer ones. You'd think Iron Fist and/or some of those Order people would show up more. Not really. Henry Hellrung popped up once, and Mandarin liked a film adaptation of one of the former Iron Fist's in an annual, but that's about it. Meanwhile, if Bendis ever wrote a Marvel story featuring some character, they pop up everywhere. Jessica Jones is a New Avenger now (and who manages to wear an outfit not quite as lazy as her husband's, if only because she has elbow-length gloves and a snazzy belt).

 

[kguillou]

In all fairness i dont think Luke Cage would look good in a superhero costume anyway. lol

But yeah, Fraction has fallen from grace. One of biggest gripes with him is he seems to blatently ignore what came before him. I fully understand a writer's desire to do his own thing with a character but at least reference what came before and transition it into what your doing now. When he brought Magneto back to his cackling, mischievous self in Uncanny, that was the first sign something was off. Then he brought Mandarin back in Ironman and suddenly what the Knaufs did was nullified. Now, it looks like his version of Thor is nothing like he's been written since JMS brought him back. See, when JMS brought Thor back, he wrote Thor in a very different way than he was in the past, but JMS ACKNOWLEDGED the past and made a transition to something new. Fraction can't seem to do this.

 

[Themanofbat]

I actually didn't know that the OMIT deal was not only that everyone who knew Peter's identity "forgot" it, but that NOBODY can ever re-learn it. OMIT was a Joe Quesada thing, though, not Slott. I'll see where things go with the next issue.

In all fairness, it's not as simple as "nobody can ever re-learn" it... of course anyone can learn his identity, but it will be more difficult now than it was in the earlier days...

Over the years, some people have made the guess simply by always seeing Peter disappear when Spider-Man appeared... that's really no longer the case... the spells involved will make you "assume" some other logical explanation... but if you happen to see Peter unmask, or he unmasks himself in front of you, all the info from Civil War will come back to you... depending on who you are...

If Norman Osborn sees him unmask, he will remember all their past history... as it stands now, he remembers everything but Spidey's identity.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I didn't think JMS' Thor was significantly different from earlier versions, personally. He was somber and quieter, but that's easily attributed to the fact that everything he knew was gone. As people came back, he became more like his old self, which meshes with the happier versions we saw in Incredible Hercules and alongside Beta Ray Bill at various points.

Now, though, Thor's just crazy. The only explanation for how utterly weird he's being is that the fall of Asgard drove him crazy. Which actually wouldn't be too bad a story, except Fraction is presenting this crazy Thor (and the rest of the Asgardians, for that matter) as if this is just how he's supposed to be.

 

[kguillou]

I think Fraction's just used to writing him that way from his Age of Thunder mini-series. It was good for that, but not for this. Plus Thor doesn't seem broken up about it over in Avengers. Then again its Bendis so....

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that's what I figure. He enjoyed writing all the gods as total d-bags for Ages of Thunder, but that worked because those were previous versions and all bets were off. In Thor, he's dealing with established versions of the characters. We've got 40 years' worth of precedent for how most of these characters behave, and it definitely isn't how Fraction's presenting them.

 

[kguillou]

Just as a side note, i was reading Ages of Thunder the other night and I realized that Patrick Zircher needs to be put on a Thor book and kept there asap. His artwork was phenomenal for that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Patrick Zircher could draw pretty much anything and it'd look great. He's a fantastic artist.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Meanwhile, if Bendis ever wrote a Marvel story featuring some character, they pop up everywhere. Jessica Jones is a New Avenger now (and who manages to wear an outfit not quite as lazy as her husband's, if only because she has elbow-length gloves and a snazzy belt).

Aww... your "not reading New Avengers" niavety is showing through

[blackout]Jessica doesn't have a costume at all as of the newest New Avengers issue. That was just some random thing Caselli put together for Amazing Spider-Man.[/blackout]

 

[Dread]

In all fairness i dont think Luke Cage would look good in a superhero costume anyway. lol

But yeah, Fraction has fallen from grace. One of biggest gripes with him is he seems to blatently ignore what came before him. I fully understand a writer's desire to do his own thing with a character but at least reference what came before and transition it into what your doing now. When he brought Magneto back to his cackling, mischievous self in Uncanny, that was the first sign something was off. Then he brought Mandarin back in Ironman and suddenly what the Knaufs did was nullified. Now, it looks like his version of Thor is nothing like he's been written since JMS brought him back. See, when JMS brought Thor back, he wrote Thor in a very different way than he was in the past, but JMS ACKNOWLEDGED the past and made a transition to something new. Fraction can't seem to do this.

Luke Cage's look in THUNDERBOLTS isn't as bad as his usual NEW AVENGERS look. And I actually wouldn't have minded if he utilizes his SECRET WAR outfit more during missions.

Fraction has fallen a bit, but the odd thing a lot of Marvel writers seem to once they hit the upper peak for some reason. I think something happens with editorial. I mean, once upon a time, Bendis wasn't Horrendous. Even Brubaker's had some more slips lately than before. Do we blame the players or the game? I don't know.

At least Fraction hasn't written an event, so it is a chance of pace. But as for his ongoing titles, he is losing me.

In all fairness, it's not as simple as "nobody can ever re-learn" it... of course anyone can learn his identity, but it will be more difficult now than it was in the earlier days...

Over the years, some people have made the guess simply by always seeing Peter disappear when Spider-Man appeared... that's really no longer the case... the spells involved will make you "assume" some other logical explanation... but if you happen to see Peter unmask, or he unmasks himself in front of you, all the info from Civil War will come back to you... depending on who you are...

If Norman Osborn sees him unmask, he will remember all their past history... as it stands now, he remembers everything but Spidey's identity.

Seems a bit complicated. But we'll see how the next issue handles it.

I didn't think JMS' Thor was significantly different from earlier versions, personally. He was somber and quieter, but that's easily attributed to the fact that everything he knew was gone. As people came back, he became more like his old self, which meshes with the happier versions we saw in Incredible Hercules and alongside Beta Ray Bill at various points.

Now, though, Thor's just crazy. The only explanation for how utterly weird he's being is that the fall of Asgard drove him crazy. Which actually wouldn't be too bad a story, except Fraction is presenting this crazy Thor (and the rest of the Asgardians, for that matter) as if this is just how he's supposed to be.

I don't think Fraction is aware of what he is doing. He is just writing Thor as he wants to.

Patrick Zircher could draw pretty much anything and it'd look great. He's a fantastic artist.

Agreed.

Aww... your "not reading New Avengers" niavety is showing through

[blackout]Jessica doesn't have a costume at all as of the newest New Avengers issue. That was just some random thing Caselli put together for Amazing Spider-Man.[/blackout]

Then at least Jones wasn't as lazy as her husband in a guest appearance. At this point I am surprised Cage even gets dressed. I can just picture him fighting in his boxers and making a joke about how even his OTHER "Power Man" is bullet proof.