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BOUGHT/THOUGHT "End Of War Special" Feb 21st

I mean seriously, what did they expect them to do? Take over the US? Pfft. Yeah right. It ended the way I always figured it would end. Either Cap was gonna end up dead or in jail. Good thing he's just in jail.

I'd also point out that Cap didn't order Cloak to dump them over the NYC. Dagger told him too. They were trying to open the portal so they could get out at Rykers. It was a last ditch effort to free everybody and that was his decision, not Caps. I mean, maybe that was as far as he could take them? That's a lotta people to be teleporting around. Either way it was what you would call a plot device. You'd have to figure that eventually, this war would spill over into the streets, and show the world (And Cap) exactly why this act was brought about in the first place. Cuz people with power to destroy cities need to be controlled, or the regular people will die. It's just that simple.
 
I mean seriously, what did they expect them to do? Take over the US? Pfft. Yeah right. It ended the way I always figured it would end. Either Cap was gonna end up dead or in jail. Good thing he's just in jail.

I'd also point out that Cap didn't order Cloak to dump them over the NYC. Dagger told him too. They were trying to open the portal so they could get out at Rykers. It was a last ditch effort to free everybody and that was his decision, not Caps. I mean, maybe that was as far as he could take them? That's a lotta people to be teleporting around. Either way it was what you would call a plot device. You'd have to figure that eventually, this war would spill over into the streets, and show the world (And Cap) exactly why this act was brought about in the first place. Cuz people with power to destroy cities need to be controlled, or the regular people will die. It's just that simple.

By "controlled", of course, you mean hunted down and locked away, without trial or hope, unless they agree to serve the feds, who have usually been corrupt enough to employ genocidal robots and no end of criminals as fodder (long before CW). And if they disagree, you can just hire out all their enemies as freelance mercs to beat them half to death in the street.

I get your point, just CW spent so long making the Pro SHRA look like rights violating *****ebags, that switching it in the third act seemed awkward. Again, Cap could have been more cerebral, but cerebral never sells books. Fisticuffs do. Because lord knows WATCHMEN sold like garbage when it was new. What? It didn't? Oh, well. Guess only Brits have the cajones to do a major story and do it smart, although maybe basing it in a mainstream, never-ending universe is the problem.

In the U.S., you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. You can't lock up someone simply for something they MIGHT do if they don't sign a sheet of paper and agree to reveal their identity to the government, the public, and be at the feds' beck and call, no matter what. You can't throw the rulebook out the window simply because of security concerns, or if the "people" will it. The public can always be swayed into knee-jerk hysteria; again, some say that happened after 9/11 when anyone from the Middle East was probably fair game, at least for a few months. There is room for the SHRA and federal run heroes, just keeping it this extreme, where most of the villians are under Fed control, where we have Gulags of no escape for heroes, etc. is not tenable. No new Marvel hero can "bud" in that classical sense if they have SHIELD feds hounding them at a moment's notice. I was hoping for a resolution that would soften the SHRA a bit so that we didn't have hunters in the streets and Gulags and there was some leeway. As it stands, it's a stone's throw from fascism. I don't see how Iron Man is much different from Dr. Doom, beyond mystical knowledge.

Good idea for a story, flawed execution, and a messload of characters acted OOC when the plot demanded it, sense be damned. The usual nature of "events". Still better than HOM though, and had some good moments. Give me ANNIHILATION any day, though.
 
I totally forgot something.

New Avengers: Illuminati #2
I really, really liked this. Straightforward plot, good writing. Bendis writes a better Namor than he has any business to. And, hell, I just liked that twist ending. It was very "Outer Limits," with the reveal of Xavier fiddling with Reed's mind to make him give up the gems.

(8.9 out of 10)
 
Civil War #7 - I liked it. F**k you if you disagree, but I liked. It ended the way I felt it should have. When it was all said and done, Cap realized he was on the wrong side. I'm kinda looking forward to how things turn out. 4 out of 5.

I agree. I loved Cap at the end and this issue had other moments in it I loved too.
 
I totally forgot something.

New Avengers: Illuminati #2
I really, really liked this. Straightforward plot, good writing. Bendis writes a better Namor than he has any business to. And, hell, I just liked that twist ending. It was very "Outer Limits," with the reveal of Xavier fiddling with Reed's mind to make him give up the gems.

(8.9 out of 10)

i don't think charlie was influencing reed to give up the gems. i think it was more of a clue that he's ultimately going to know where the gems are, after they're all hidden. it would be tempting to slip into someone's mind to find the location of an infinity gem, you know?
 
Which I hate as well. Though, at least when Supes cries is because someone he cares about died or something.

I was only kidding it annoys me as well.

Particularly when it happened in justice (because it really made it seem like he was crying because of the kicking he was receiving).
 
There's that. There also is honoring his legacy. Castle was a decorated soldier after all, and naturally in some way feels blowing apart criminal scum helps America. He's not the only character who has had that sentiment. Castle's had allies and supporters.

But would Cap escape jail? I can see Steve honoring whatever sentence he is served, at least until the Powers-That-Be want him back and he gets some sort of pardon.

It is a wacky world when people dogpile Cap while buy action figures of Bullseye though. ;)

I've thought that he'd actually use the mask as a kind of image, not actually wearing it, to kind of draw people more over to his little underground side that are still anti-reg.
 
Just read Punisher: War Journal and it was freakin awesome :up::up:

Illuminati was great as well :D
 
i don't think charlie was influencing reed to give up the gems. i think it was more of a clue that he's ultimately going to know where the gems are, after they're all hidden. it would be tempting to slip into someone's mind to find the location of an infinity gem, you know?
There could be other interpretations of that scene, probably, but still. We see the Watcher go "Well you're still an idiot, Reed, but I'm glad you were strong enough of MIND to not use the gems." And then several shots of Xavier, looking all moody and annoyed. I thought it was pretty clear that he had to stop Reed from doing it, not that Reed did it himself.
 
There could be other interpretations of that scene, probably, but still. We see the Watcher go "Well you're still an idiot, Reed, but I'm glad you were strong enough of MIND to not use the gems." And then several shots of Xavier, looking all moody and annoyed. I thought it was pretty clear that he had to stop Reed from doing it, not that Reed did it himself.

I think that was more a case of bendis using the old "is Xavier a good guy or secretly evil?" cliche.
 
Just read Punisher: War Journal and it was freakin awesome :up::up:

Illuminati was great as well :D

Yeah, War Journal was great. :up:

Not to sure about Illuminati though, I didn't find it as good as the first issue.

Today I just got:

Sensational Spider-Man #35 and Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man. Not much to review, cept that both were awesome reads.
 
Yeah, War Journal was great. :up:

Not to sure about Illuminati though, I didn't find it as good as the first issue.

Today I just got:

Sensational Spider-Man #35 and Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man. Not much to review, cept that both were awesome reads.


I liked this Illuminati muuuch better than the last. Using BB's voice to open a portal = GENIUS
 
I liked this Illuminato muuuch better than the last. Using BB's voice to open a portal = GENIUS

Yeah that was cool. But I still say #1 was better. I like Bendis' Namor. If Namor had an ongoing, instead of a mini, I'd like Bendis to write his series.
 
When is this story taken place?
 
This current issue took place a few months before everything went to s**t. So, pre House of M.
 
Well it couldn't have taken place that recently if Xavier still has his powers. House of M was only a few months ago??
 
Just thought I'd add this review of CW #7 from Paul O'Brien's The X-Axis website: http://www.thexaxis.com/misc/civilwar7.htm

Paul O'Brien said:
After nine whole months, Civil War finally grinds to a halt. And despite the spin, there's no denying that the reaction to this final issue has been mixed, tending to negative. It's not another Civil War: The Return by any means - it's easy to find people who really liked Civil War #7. But it's hardly the ideal reaction.

Now, you can argue that the Internet is negative about everything. Obviously that's true to some extent. But Civil War has been going since last May, and previous issues didn't receive anything like this level of negativity from the ordinary message board posters.

You can also argue that Civil War sets up an interesting status quo for the Marvel Universe. There's some truth to this - I rather like the possibilities of a Marvel Universe where superheroes are either under the thumb of the government or total outlaws, removing the wishy-washy middle ground of tolerated vigilantism. But you can't defend a seven-issue, nine-month, massively-extended crossover on the grounds that it was just a prologue to the next story down the line. An event on this scale has to work as a story in its own right.

Personally, I don't think the final issue is as bad as people are making out. It's not so much this issue; it's a structural problem with the whole story that came before. Marvel have produced many, many comics that were far worse than this.

But the reaction should still be cause for concern. Marvel hyped this series to the hilt, and by stretching it for a further three months, they built the anticipation even more. Clearly a big chunk of the audience felt that they failed to deliver on the hype. With a normal miniseries that wouldn't be a problem - after all, they've paid their money. Civil War isn't a normal miniseries. It exists to define the direction of the Marvel Universe and to set up a ton of new stories. If readers aren't leaving Civil War satisfied and enthusiastic, well, that's not good.

The sheer length of Civil War, especially coming on the heels of Infinite Crisis, might also have led event fatigue to set in at last. If that's the case, then again, Marvel have a problem. The plan for 2007 is pretty much all event. Having once announced that there would be no equivalent mega-crossover this year, Marvel have now released an "Initiative" checklist that clocks in at fifty-eight comics, and a "World War Hulk" checklist covering another thirty-three. I'm reminded of the state of the DC Universe five years ago when it was spastically lurching from stunt to stunt with rapidly diminishing returns.

Fundamentally, though, the problem lies with the story. Most of the criticism has focussed on the ending, where Captain America surrenders and the war finishes. And if nothing else, issue #7 did deliver a clear winner. However, it seems to have been widely read as an arbitrary capitulation.

Reading the bullet-point synopsis that editor Tom Brevoort released, and Joss Whedon's own comments on the editorial conference where he made his minor contribution, you can see that this isn't the effect that they had in mind. The idea was meant to be that Captain America looks at what's happening, and realises that by his actions, he's been proving Iron Man right. So even though he's on the verge of winning the fight, Captain America recognises that he's on the wrong side of the argument and surrenders.

This is a perfectly reasonable ending, and if you re-read Civil War #7 knowing that this was the plan, you can see the glimmers of it poking through. But even with that knowledge, it doesn't work as an ending.

Mark Millar's problem is that he thinks in moments, not in stories. This particular moment would only work if it was set up properly by the preceding six issues. It's the conclusion to a story where the anti-registration heroes start off with a perfectly reasonable position but, as they fight for their "freedoms", they ironically prove the other side's case, thus forcing them to recognise that their position is untenable. Unfortunately, that's not the story Millar told. There's a glimmer of it in Civil War when the Punisher shows up, but that's about it.

How does the big fight in Civil War #7 prove Iron Man's argument any more than the Stamford disaster back in issue #1? Wasn't that a perfectly good demonstration of the dangers of amateur superheroes? After all, the New Warriors did fight Nitro right next to a school, in order to boost their TV ratings. That's pretty dumb. Why has nobody on the anti-registration side ever attempted seriously to grapple with the moral implications of their argument? Is Cap really saying that he thinks masked vigilantes should be wandering the streets unchecked? (The Punisher was presumably introduced in order to play off this point, but nothing effective was done with him to explore it.) When Millar could have been developing the necessary themes for his big finish, why was he wasting time with unmasking Spider-Man - a stunt that contributes nothing but extra hype, and doesn't even bear on Spider-Man's eventual defection? What the hell was the point of the cyborg clone of Thor?

Instead, with his usual crashing lack of subtlety, Millar has attempted to wrongfoot the readers by setting up Cap's group as the apparent goodies, and Iron Man as the apparent baddies. Now, in theory, this isn't a bad idea, as long as we start from that position and see some actual development over time that finally leads to Cap's epiphany and surrender in issue #7. In practice, it fails dismally for two reasons.

One, Millar (and Jenkins and Straczynski, in the major spin-off books) massively overplay their hand by making the pro-registration forces into unequivocal villains - borderline murderers, consorters with homicidal maniacs, defilers of the dead, torturers of imprisoned heroes. It's taken to such a degree that Millar finds himself trying to write a finale where Cap figures out that the fascists have got a fair point. Plainly that's a non-starter.

Two, during the entire storyline only one character gives serious consideration to his position and changes it. It's Spider-Man, and he goes the wrong way. Spider-Man's change of heart makes sense because he's increasingly confronted with the evidence that he's sided with the neo-Nazis. Captain America's surrender makes no sense because it requires the atrocities committed by Iron Man's forces to be swept under the carpet in order for us to accept that he's truly seen the light. In contrast, only two minor characters (Stature and Nighthawk) are seen to defect to Iron Man's side during the course of the storyline, and they seem to just give up because they think the rebels are fighting for a lost cause.

Marvel insist, as they always do, that Civil War was mapped out from the beginning and that the plan was not changed. If that's right, then it's remarkable that professional editors and writers failed to realise how poorly the ending had been set up in the earlier issues. And there are definite signs of last-minute re-writing in this storyline.

Remember those two Fantastic Four issues that were billed as Civil War prequels? The ones about the real Thor's hammer? Well, what did those have to do with anything? If Thor's return was planned as a feature of this story, then the inclusion of Cyborg Clone Thor makes at least a modicum of sense. But it would also mean a last-minute re-write. If on the other hand it was never planned as a feature of this story, then those two Fantastic Four issues were falsely solicited. (And the ending of issue #3 was perhaps the most cynical bait-and-switch in years.)

More interestingly, Joss Whedon says that the previous version of the ending (before his contribution) involved Miriam Sharpe running in to put an end to the fight. Sharpe plays no part in the published version of issue #7, but she still hangs around the rest of the series like a ghost from a previous draft. Just how late in the day was this ending changed? And why did nobody bother going back to remove her scenes and replace them with something that set up the ending they actually used?

Mark Millar is all about the Cool Moment, and his stories arguably aren't meant to stand up to much scrutiny. This is fortunate, because they generally don't. However, even the comic book equivalent of a Bruckheimer film still has to hit the buttons to set up the big finale properly. This series doesn't, and that's why it doesn't work. It's not the final issue, it's everything that came before it.

Pretty pictures, though.

Rating: C

FYI, his rating scale for comics is A+ for the best and D- for the worst. Average for him would be about a B or B-.
 
Well it couldn't have taken place that recently if Xavier still has his powers. House of M was only a few months ago??


Yeah, pretty much. Disassembled took place about six months before House of M. House of M took place about a month or two before CW.
 

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