Brave and the Bold Casting Thread

[Invader Joker]

See, I don't think the approach to playing opposite a 21-year-old like Alex Garfin should be significantly different from playing against a 28- or 30-year-old. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you were to replace Garfin (in Superman and Lois) with a much older actor, it wouldn't really have that much of an impact on Tyler's performance. Mannerisms and the like would more or less remain the same. I do agree that his older appearance helps to sell the performance a little more, but OJC has a mature look to him as well, IMO. Peck looks younger, but who cares when his voice sounds like that? lol

I totally hear you on this point. I'm not completely sold on them, either, to be honest. Why is it so hard to find another perfect Batman?

Yeah, I'm hoping that Gunn is willing to cast older actors as well. It's just that the more objective side of me keeps saying, "Not gonna happen, Arms. Not gonna happen."

See, I'm trying to get my hopes down by that "objective" angle too but like... objectively I keep reaching the same exact opposite conclusion lol He dodges the question of Batman's age every single time he's asked so at the very least it's clearly not a priority for him for the guy to be young or else he'd have admitted to it already in one of the hundreds time he got asked about it, he's already cast a man in his mid 40s to play Mr. Terrific who is supposed to be on par with Batman physically, the fact he's already starting off with Damian kinda implies an older Batman, and well, since Pattinson exists and he's already the young Batman at 37 it also makes sense that to differentiate themselves with this Batdad take they'd wanna have this take be older and cast older. There's the "longevity" angle but again, that doesn't hold up to scrutiny and it doesn't seem to be something studios care about not even for cinematic universes with the aforementioned Pascal, RDJ and Paul Rudd examples, or action franchises in general looking at Keanu and Tom Cruise.

And then there's the Batman-Superman age gap argument but... come on, that's such a trivial detail that barely even factors into their dynamic in the comics and the chances that he, of all people, who has his best buddy Michael Rooker 11 years older than him, would care about that are extremely low. I just keep seeing more and more reasons as to why he'd cast older than why he'd cast younger.


Another thing I keep thinking about in regards to this casting: Gunn really, really, really admires and looks up to the "RDJ as Iron Man, Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool, Christopher Reeve" type of castings. It's something he's said time and time again. He loves the castings that make the character end up becoming synonymous with the actor. You can see this reflected on how he's cast Legacy, especially Superman and Lois. And the question I'm asking is that... could I see any scenario where either Ethan Peck or OJC would ever be compared to those types of "definitive" castings? Could I see any scenario where either of those guys would be widely recognized as the "definitive Batman" opposed to Keaton, Bale, Affleck, and Pattinson? As good as they may be, and I think either of them could be perfectly serviceable... I just don't see it.

Casting characters like Batman is hard because you can come up with a bunch of names that could in theory play some version of Batman, maybe even several that could play a good Batman. But finding someone who can play the /perfect/ Batman is harder. And well, we probably already found it, hence why it's so hard looking for alternatives lol

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

See, I'm trying to get my hopes down by that "objective" angle too but like... objectively I keep reaching the same exact opposite conclusion lol He dodges the question of Batman's age every single time he's asked so at the very least it's clearly not a priority for him for the guy to be young or else he'd have admitted to it already in one of the hundreds time he got asked about it, he's already cast a man in his mid 40s to play Mr. Terrific who is supposed to be on par with Batman physically, the fact he's already starting off with Damian kinda implies an older Batman, and well, since Pattinson exists and he's already the young Batman at 37 it also makes sense that to differentiate themselves with this Batdad take they'd wanna have this take be older and cast older. There's the "longevity" angle but again, that doesn't hold up to scrutiny and it doesn't seem to be something studios care about not even for cinematic universes with the aforementioned Pascal, RDJ and Paul Rudd examples, or action franchises in general looking at Keanu and Tom Cruise.

And then there's the Batman-Superman age gap argument but... come on, that's such a trivial detail that barely even factors into their dynamic in the comics and the chances that he, of all people, who has his best buddy Michael Rooker 11 years older than him, would care about that are extremely low. I just keep seeing more and more reasons as to why he'd cast older than why he'd cast younger.

Yeah, the casting of Gathegi and Fillion definitely gives me hope, but I still think that Gunn might be reluctant to fill some of the more important roles with older actors (talking, mid-forties and above). We've discussed some of this before; one point I keep returning to is that Brave is part of a rebooted franchise—a soft reboot—but a reboot nonetheless. And with reboots, there's usually a tendency to start afresh with younger blood, so to speak. Fortunately, as you've just demonstrated, a precedent for casting older actors in lead roles for cinematic universes also exists. So, it could go either way. Unfortunately, Gunn is keeping this one (the film, that is) extremely close to the chest. And, try as we might, we basically won't know what's what until he's ready to throw us another effin' Bat-bone. lol

Another thing I keep thinking about in regards to this casting: Gunn really, really, really admires and looks up to the "RDJ as Iron Man, Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool, Christopher Reeve" type of castings. It's something he's said time and time again. He loves the castings that make the character end up becoming synonymous with the actor. You can see this reflected on how he's cast Legacy, especially Superman and Lois. And the question I'm asking is that... could I see any scenario where either Ethan Peck or OJC would ever be compared to those types of "definitive" castings? Could I see any scenario where either of those guys would be widely recognized as the "definitive Batman" opposed to Keaton, Bale, Affleck, and Pattinson? As good as they may be, and I think either of them could be perfectly serviceable... I just don't see it.

To be honest, I don't think those guys are universally regarded as "definitive" Batman, either—not in the way that Reeve is w/ Superman. Again, though, these particular areas are a bit subjective and difficult to quantify.

Casting characters like Batman is hard because you can come up with a bunch of names that could in theory play some version of Batman, maybe even several that could play a good Batman. But finding someone who can play the /perfect/ Batman is harder. And well, we probably already found it, hence why it's so hard looking for alternatives lol

Indeed.

 

[Boom]

Pace makes sense.

-Worked with Gunn previously.
-Has the dramatic chops.
-Has the comedic chops too.
-Has the look.
-Has the height.
-Has the voice.
-Is age appropriate for a man with a teenage son (assuming Batman started his crusade at 25).

The guy's gotta get an audition at the very least. Assuming he's even interested, of course.

 

[Invader Joker]

To be honest, I don't think those guys are universally regarded as "definitive" Batman, either—not in the way that Reeve is w/ Superman. Again, though, these particular areas are a bit subjective and difficult to quantify.

I think the Batman fandom is divided into 5 parts and 4 are people that consider each one of those as their respective "definitive Batman" and the rest is ones that think we haven't had a definitive Batman yet. Regardless though, I guess that does prove the fact that none of those are universally regarded as that.

But be that as it may... would anyone /really/ compare the prospect of OJC or Ethan Peck getting cast as Batman to Christopher Reeve as Superman? Let alone would the majority of the fandom agree with that prospect like how people do Reeve and RDJ? And it's not even that they'd be bad it's just that it's an extremely high standard they don't quite meet and that realistically only really few actors could.

Lee does feel like he could have that effect because even if he doesn't look 1:1 to the comic version, his presence and his acting would make him feel ripped straight out of the pages, the Arkham games, the animated shows and movies, etc. He's by far the closest one could have to a Kevin Conroy Batman in live action in so many ways, which is ironically the one version that the fandom universally acknowledges as "definitive" to Batman as Reeve to Superman or RDJ to Iron Man.

 

[Invader Joker]

Also this video alone should destroy any arguments over him being too old.

 

[flickchick85]

No Batman actor will ever be "The Chris Reeve of Batman" because there have been several great iterations of Batman already. Who you prefer just depends on how you prefer your Batman. Reeve is Reeve because he was A.) great, and B.) followed up by lackluster cinematic outings with the character, so he just continued to be The Standard that every Next Guy would be compared to.

 

[Invader Joker]

No Batman actor will ever be "The Chris Reeve of Batman" because there have been several great iterations of Batman already. Who you prefer just depends on how you prefer your Batman. Reeve is Reeve because he was A.) great, and B.) followed up by lackluster cinematic outings with the character, so he just continued to be The Standard that every Next Guy would be compared to.

I don't think that any actor would realistically ever quite get that reputation but still, I'd imagine Gunn's goal would still be to get someone that approximates that ideal as much as possible (mostly because he's admitted to actively looking for that ideal in the past for other roles) even if in practice the most realistic scenario is that the fandom will continue to be divided over who's their definitive Batman just because previous versions have been far too iconic. You could literally materialize comic book Bruce into reality and people would still be divided because of that, but to whatever extent he can materialize comic book Bruce into reality I think he'll want to do that. And it's the sort of ideal you can very clearly see him looking for in his Superman, Lois and Jimmy castings.

 

[BatsAndNights]

The only person who comes close to being the Christopher Reeve of Batman, imo, is Kevin Conroy. And Conroy was still only definitive in a singular sense. His voice. Reeve was quite literally both.

Reeve was just lightning in a bottle that will probably never be repeated again.

 

[Invader Joker]

The only person who comes close to being the Christopher Reeve of Batman, imo, is Kevin Conroy. And Conroy was still only definitive in a singular sense. His voice. Reeve was quite literally both.

Reeve was just lightning in a bottle that will probably never be repeated again.

True, but on that note if any actor can even approximate portraying Kevin Conroy's Batman in live action, it's probably Lee. Pretty much any version of Batman that Conroy played I can imagine Lee playing as well, both in terms of voice and physicality. The same type of presence that Conroy commanded Lee can easily command as well. Not to mention that even as people they're kinda reminiscent of each other. I've been trying to come up with another actor like that (hence my long long lists) but no it all goes back to him in the end.

 

[BatsAndNights]

True, but on that note if any actor can even approximate portraying Kevin Conroy's Batman in live action, it's probably Lee. Pretty much any version of Batman that Conroy played I can imagine Lee playing as well, both in terms of voice and physicality. The same type of presence that Conroy commanded Lee can easily command as well. Not to mention that even as people they're kinda reminiscent of each other. I've been trying to come up with another actor like that (hence my long long lists) but no it all goes back to him in the end.

I actually kinda disagree

I feel like any attempt to try to emulate Conroy's voice is gonna be neutered and seen as "trying to emulate Conroy's voice". So any actor who tries that is gonna get points docked for a general "lack of originality". It'd have to be done in a way that feels natural and isn't him trying to approximate what Conroy did.

Reeve had the genuine advantage of being the first ever (in terms of movies and whatnot). The timing just never worked out the same way for Batman. West I still argue is probably the most comic accurate of his time but obviously hasn't aged with what the character has become since the 60s and Keaton was probably the least conventional Batman casting ever.

This is not to say I think Pace would be bad or anything, I think he'd be great. I just don't think a "Christopher Reeve's equivalent for Batman" is ever going to happen because the only reason Christopher Reeve's Superman happened is because they quite literally got the perfect casting for the literal first ever Hollywood Superman movie. Batman just never had that, in his theatrical history.

 

[Invader Joker]

Ethan Peck and Lee Pace are not handsome enough to play Bruce Wayne.

How many times do you have to be reminded you are alone in this opinion? lol

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Ethan Peck and Lee Pace are not handsome enough to play Bruce Wayne. They feel more appropriate playing weird looking alien characters like Spock and Ronan. Both of these guys have weird eyebrows or eyes that just stand out too much.

The choices i like are Cooper, Cohen, Gosling, Gyllenhaal, Hartnett- all good looking guys without glaringly different features like Pace’s eyebrows or Peck’s wide eye spacing.

 

[Invader Joker]

I actually kinda disagree

I feel like any attempt to try to emulate Conroy's voice is gonna be neutered and seen as "trying to emulate Conroy's voice". So any actor who tries that is gonna get points docked for a general "lack of originality". It'd have to be done in a way that feels natural and isn't him trying to approximate what Conroy did.

I don't mean it in the sense of having Lee literally doing a Kevin Conroy impersonation. Obviously that'd suck and it's not what I'm expecting him to do. I mean in the sense that they both have this very deep commanding baritone voice that'd give a very similar vibe when imagining it translated into a Batman performance. And in terms of physicality he'd be as commanding as the Arkham games or DCAU Batman. He'd obviously do his own thing but it's a very similar sort of vibe and type. At least as similar as Corenswet is to Christopher Reeve.

Reeve had the genuine advantage of being the first ever (in terms of movies and whatnot). The timing just never worked out the same way for Batman. West I still argue is probably the most comic accurate of his time but obviously hasn't aged with what the character has become since the 60s and Keaton was probably the least conventional Batman casting ever.

This is not to say I think Pace would be bad or anything, I think he'd be great. I just don't think a "Christopher Reeve's equivalent for Batman" is ever going to happen because the only reason Christopher Reeve's Superman happened is because they quite literally got the perfect casting for the literal first ever Hollywood Superman movie. Batman just never had that, in his theatrical history.

Yeah like I said I can't imagine that there's ever going to be a "definitive Batman" but again, it's the sort of goal I'd imagine he'll try to reach with this casting. Sorta "Shoot for the stars and you'll reach the moon" sort of thing.

Ethan Peck and Lee Pace are not handsome enough to play Bruce Wayne. They feel more appropriate playing weird looking alien characters like Spock and Ronan. Both of these guys have weird eyebrows or eyes that just stand out too much.

The choices i like are Cooper, Cohen, Gosling, Gyllenhaal, Hartnett- all good looking guys without glaringly different features like Pace’s eyebrows or Peck’s wide eye spacing.

bro omfg. If you wanna be petty and start nitpicking facial features like that there is /plenty/ to nitpick in regards to Cooper, Cohen and Gosling. In fact I'm legitimately clueless as to which version of Batman you're even thinking of that'd look more like Gosling or Cohen than Pace and Peck. You are 100% alone in thinking that Pace especially is ugly. You wouldn't buy him as a handsome playboy? Who cares when pretty much anybody else would and that whenever any pic of his gets posted on social media he gets thousands of comments thirsting over him? Look at the QRTs in that latest tweet about him. If the dude that gets those sort of responses can't be bought as a playboy no one can.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Ethan Peck and Lee Pace are not handsome enough to play Bruce Wayne. They feel more appropriate playing weird looking alien characters like Spock and Ronan. Both of these guys have weird eyebrows or eyes that just stand out too much.

The choices i like are Cooper, Cohen, Gosling, Gyllenhaal, Hartnett- all good looking guys without glaringly different features like Pace’s eyebrows or Peck’s wide eye spacing.

You do understand Lee Pace is considered incredibly attractive right? Like, that’s one of the things he’s known for? Especially among gay men. You are in a hardcore minority on not finding Pace sexy.

 

[flickchick85]

Ethan Peck and Lee Pace are not handsome enough to play Bruce Wayne.

Tell that to all the folks that have Lee trending on Twitter for their thirst tweets about that video Invader posted.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Tell that to all the folks that have Lee trending on Twitter for their thirst tweets about that video Invader posted.

****ing seriously. His voice, his physical presence, his face - he’s adorable in Pushing Daisies and has such brooding sexiness in Halt and Catch Fire.

Pace is hot as hell. My dude, if Flickchick and I - who regularly have impassioned disagreements about men - both find Pace attractive that means something.

 

[flickchick85]

****ing seriously. His voice, his physical presence, his face - he’s adorable in Pushing Daisies and has such brooding sexiness in Halt and Catch Fire.

Pace is hot as hell. My dude, if Flickchick and I - who regularly have impassioned disagreements about men - both find Pace attractive that means something.

For real, the two of us could truly not have more diametrically opposed taste in men, and yet, neither of us could deny the extreme hotness of Lee Pace. That alone should say it all.

 

[Boom]

Lee Pace is objectively handsome. How are we having this conversation? LOL

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I legit think Pace might be the second sexiest man to play Batman after probably Pattinson if he were cast. I’d crawl over fifty good Josh Hartnett’s for one Lee Pace, to paraphrase a filthy Nick Cave song.

 

[flickchick85]

Even in his heartthrob era, I never got the Josh Hartnett thing AT ALL. To be fair, Oppenheimer was actually the first time I have ever found him remotely attractive, but...he still ain't holding a candle to Lee Pace.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Even in his heartthrob era, I never got the Josh Hartnett thing AT ALL. To be fair, Oppenheimer was actually the first time I have ever found him remotely attractive, but...he still ain't holding a candle to Lee Pace.

Oh, he’s perfectly handsome. Pace is just this wonderful mix of classical, old Hollywood hunk and something a bit… Elven and pretty.

 

[BatsAndNights]

I'm literally a bisexual man who has an ick list about as long as the Magna Carta when it comes to his begrudging attraction to men

Lee Pace is objectively attractive as hell lmao

 

[Invader Joker]

I love how this thread's inevitable fate is always to end up at the same conclusion: Lee would be the perfect DCU Batman and he's hot as hell.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I wish it could be Andrew Koji...

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I think the Batman fandom is divided into 5 parts and 4 are people that consider each one of those as their respective "definitive Batman" and the rest is ones that think we haven't had a definitive Batman yet. Regardless though, I guess that does prove the fact that none of those are universally regarded as that.

But be that as it may... would anyone /really/ compare the prospect of OJC or Ethan Peck getting cast as Batman to Christopher Reeve as Superman? Let alone would the majority of the fandom agree with that prospect like how people do Reeve and RDJ? And it's not even that they'd be bad it's just that it's an extremely high standard they don't quite meet and that realistically only really few actors could.

Lee does feel like he could have that effect because even if he doesn't look 1:1 to the comic version, his presence and his acting would make him feel ripped straight out of the pages, the Arkham games, the animated shows and movies, etc. He's by far the closest one could have to a Kevin Conroy Batman in live action in so many ways, which is ironically the one version that the fandom universally acknowledges as "definitive" to Batman as Reeve to Superman or RDJ to Iron Man.

Yeah, but the key word there is divided. Like @flickchick85 said, though, Reeve is generally considered the definitive Superman (not just with the Superman fandom, mind you, but with the general audience alike) because 1) he gave a noteworthy performance and 2) he didn't have any real competition for years. There's also the nostalgia factor, which I'd say is rather significant. That's probably what does it for me, if I'm being honest.

Pace is great. For me, he's without a doubt the best man for the job. Whether he lands the role or not is another matter entirely, but I fully support him. That said, it's way too early to start calling the man "definitive," even if we're extrapolating, and I totally understand that's what you're doing here.