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BREAKING NEWS: Russia invades Georgia

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but Russia is not Iraq. I know we're not talking about trying to take them over and "fix" them like we've been trying with Iraq and Afghanistan, but what we are talking about is tangling with one of the big boys. We need to be ready as a nation to do that.

Which is why it can not be an American effort. It must be a NATO effort. Russia needs to face a fierce resistance from a pack of "big boys", not just economically impotent America - no matter how great our toys are.

The UN is left inept here because of Russia's position here. I wish a foreign leaders would have the testicular fortitude to call what the UN is - an inept, corrupt failure. Destroy it and rebuild.
 
Which is why it can not be an American effort. It must be a NATO effort. Russia needs to face a fierce resistance from a pack of "big boys", not just economically impotent America - no matter how great our toys are.
I agree, I suppose I should've indicated that in the original post. (NATO = Good/America Alone = Bad)
 
I tell to you again. please. America should stay out of our business
The end. thanks to all
 
A summary of the current situation from various papers:

http://www.slate.com/id/2197237/

Deep Impact
By Daniel Politi
Posted Monday, Aug. 11, 2008, at 6:22 AM ET
The New York Times, the Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, and the Wall Street Journal's world-wide newsbox lead with Russia extending its assault on Georgia to cities beyond the breakaway region of South Ossetia. As Georgia pulled back its own troops and called for a cease-fire, Russia bombed sites in the capital, Tbilisi, and in Abkhazia, another breakaway region. Meanwhile, Russia's Black Sea fleet apparently imposed a blockade on Georgia's main port. The NYT highlights that Georgian officials also said Russian ground troops are advancing toward the city of Gori, which is a short drive away from Tbilisi. The United States and other countries continued to condemn Russia's "disproportionate response," as President Bush put it. But the WSJ notes up high that Russia's biggest international use of force since the collapse of the Soviet Union has made it clear that the United States and Europe have little influence in the region.

USA Today devotes much of its front-page real estate to the conflict in Georgia but leads with word that the Transportation Security Administration is planning to impose new security regulations on private planes. Some are worried that new security guidelines would take away from the convenience of eschewing commercial air travel, but some administration officials have voiced concerns that terrorists could get around security measures through private planes.

As Georgia claimed to be withdrawing its troops from South Ossetia, Russian officials said they didn't buy it and accused Georgia of merely taking the time to regroup and plan a counterattack. The LAT files its dispatch from Gori and says that this morning, "[d]ozens of Georgian tanks and vehicles carrying troops passed through Gori, heading north toward South Ossetia." Russian officials also dismissed claims that a proper cease-fire was offered and said peace negotiations won't begin until after Georgia unconditionally withdraws all its troops from South Ossetia and vows never again to attack the region.

At the United Nations, Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad of the United States accused Moscow of seeking to depose Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili after noting that Russia's foreign minister told Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that Saakashvili "must go." "This raises serious questions about Russia's objectives," Khalilzad said at the Security Council. "This is completely unacceptable." Bush spoke in person with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in Beijing and urged him to end the offensive. Underscoring the Bush administration's concern over Russia's offensive against a strong ally, Vice President Dick Cheney apparently told Saakashvili yesterday that "Russian aggression must not go unanswered." The White House said it would seek a U.N. resolution condemning Russia's actions, but, as the WP points out, "U.S. options may be limited, given Washington's need for help on a wide range of issues."

The NYT fronts a separate dispatch from Gori and says that as civilians trying to flee the violence encountered Western journalists, "they all said the same thing: Where is the United States? When is NATO coming?" Georgians, who are known for being staunchly pro-American, "Were beginning to feel betrayed," says the NYT.

The LAT talks to a Russia scholar who says Russia's strong response is meant to send a message not only to Georgia but to other former Soviet republics and the United States. "This is a signal to everyone that Russia is back—and Russia is going to try and dominate this region of the world," Michael McFaul of Stanford University said. "They are calling our bluff." USAT also says that the conflict may be Russia's way of testing what the United States and Europe are willing to do in order to defend Georgia. "This is the beginning of the re-emergence of the Russian sphere of influence in what was the former Soviet Union," an analyst tells USAT.

In a news analysis that provides some helpful background information for those trying to understand the conflict, the NYT says that while the intense Russian attack took many by surprise and didn't appear to be premeditated, "there had been signs for years that Georgia and Russia had methodically, if quietly, prepared for conflict." Some think that by training Georgian soldiers to fight in Iraq, the United States may have inadvertently emboldened Georgia "to enter a fight it could not win," says the Times. Many analysts had long warned that Saakashvili's strong alliance with the Bush administration would force the United States to get involved in regional arguments.

The WP's op-ed page has two pieces that say the conflict is full of historical significance and marks an important step in Moscow's attempt to impose its dominance in the region. "Historians will come to view Aug. 8, 2008, as a turning point no less significant than Nov. 9, 1989, when the Berlin Wall fell," writes Robert Kagan. In a separate piece, Ronald Asmus and Richard Holbrooke say Russia clearly wants "regime change in Georgia" in order to replace Saakashvili "with a president who would be more subject to Moscow's influence." More than anything, Moscow is trying to send a message to neighboring countries: "Being close to Washington and the West does not pay." Although military intervention in Georgia "is out of the question," the United States and the European Union "must make clear that this kind of aggression will affect our relations and Russia's standing in the West."

The WSJ takes a look at how the Russia-Georgia conflict quickly brought foreign-policy issues back to the forefront of the U.S. presidential campaigns. This gives John McCain a golden opportunity to contrast his experience with that of Barack Obama since foreign policy is one of the few areas where, according to polls, voters trust the presumptive Republican nominee more than his opponent. McCain will also no doubt take advantage of the fact that he'll have the campaign trail to himself as Obama enjoys his Hawaii vacation.

In a separate story, the WSJ notes that this might be one of those few times where McCain's close connection with lobbyists may actually help him. McCain's top foreign-policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, was a lobbyist for Georgia until earlier this year. Obama's campaign quickly seized on this fact to say that it represented a conflict of interest, but now that Georgia is being widely seen as the victim of Russian aggression the connection could actually be seen as a strength. "In a major international crisis, what is their response?" Scheunemann said of the Obama campaign. "To take a cheap shot at me, as if helping a struggling democracy is somehow wrong."
 
America shouldn't allow an ally be destroyed by the actions of a hostile super power whose goal is to punish the Georgian Government and people for dare questioning Russia.
 
Which is why it can not be an American effort. It must be a NATO effort. Russia needs to face a fierce resistance from a pack of "big boys", not just economically impotent America - no matter how great our toys are.

The UN is left inept here because of Russia's position here. I wish a foreign leaders would have the testicular fortitude to call what the UN is - an inept, corrupt failure. Destroy it and rebuild.


You are not kidding........I absolutely despise the UN, and I'm so glad that I didn't follow through on my quest to work there........


But, WHOA, Russia is pissed that we helped the Georgian soldiers in Iraq get back to Georgia to fight....lmao. I love it....
 
Holy crap...I thought Russia was invading the States!

Could have specified in the thread title :cmad:
 
Holy crap...I thought Russia was invading the States!

Could have specified in the thread title :cmad:


Around this forum, if you don't watch the news, you'll be left in the dust....:cwink::oldrazz:
 
As it is favourable to think Russia an aggressor. You are not right. Do you live in Russia or Georgia? You listen only to damned mass-media!
Why you think that can solve for others? Why you support an aggressor? You saw as Georgia's soldiers hurt women and children?
Killed Russian soldiers which helped wounded?
You will not understand!
You never were at war in own territories!
And you still dare to despise and hate us!
I have friends in Ossetia and Georgia. Nobody is pleased with it. Nobody wants that America interfered
 
Until Russia involved itself, it was solely between Georgia and the South Osettian separatists.

The US hasn't sent over a single soldier.

If anyone is being aggressive, it's Russia. Unless you consider bombing cities that miles away from the actual conflict to be standard procedure, as well as ignoring Georgia's calls for cease-fire.
 
As it is favourable to think Russia an aggressor. You are not right. Do you live in Russia or Georgia? You listen only to damned mass-media!
Why you think that can solve for others? Why you support an aggressor? You saw as Georgia's soldiers hurt women and children?
Killed Russian soldiers which helped wounded?
You will not understand!
You never were at war in own territories!
And you still dare to despise and hate us!
I have friends in Ossetia and Georgia. Nobody is pleased with it. Nobody wants that America interfered

I don't despise Russia - I despise Putin.

Also one does to be on location to make an opinion of it - all it takes is a fairly decent mind (which I have) and a cornucopia of sources (which I have). I do not need to be alive in the 1940's to criticize the actions of Hitler.

The Georgian people want America to help them - and after aiding America for years, they should receive that help.
 
As it is favourable to think Russia an aggressor. You are not right. Do you live in Russia or Georgia? You listen only to damned mass-media!
Why you think that can solve for others? Why you support an aggressor? You saw as Georgia's soldiers hurt women and children?
Killed Russian soldiers which helped wounded?
You will not understand!
You never were at war in own territories!
And you still dare to despise and hate us!
I have friends in Ossetia and Georgia. Nobody is pleased with it. Nobody wants that America interfered


Um, US hasn't interferred.....the Georgian government wanted to get their 2,000 troops home, it was a contract that was already in place between the US and Georgia to help get the troops home in case of an emergency. Bush spoke with Putin about it, Putin himself said it was bad that this happened on the opening day of the Olympics....not much else has been said or done, except through the UN Security Council.

Georgia has the only oil pipeline through Asia that Russia does not control....please, don't insult my intelligence.
 
Hi, I mean in no way to suggest what you're going through isn't harsh, and I hope you and you're family are safe. It seems like you're on the russian side (geographically speaking) of this so no shots fired into your cities right? I do have to take issue with what you're throwing down though:

As it is favourable to think Russia an aggressor. You are not right. Do you live in Russia or Georgia? You listen only to damned mass-media!
Why you think that can solve for others?

By that standard you know nothing about the United States except lies told to you, right?

Why you support an aggressor? You saw as Georgia's soldiers hurt women and children?
Killed Russian soldiers which helped wounded?

We've all seen violence on both sides. It seems like the geogians are getting the worst of it. Please don't pretend this is completely one sided. Villages have been carpet bombed.

You will not understand!
You never were at war in own territories!

The civil war was kinda a war in the US territories, just a little.

And you still dare to despise and hate us!


Anyone has the right to believe, question and try and work out any situation going on in the world for themselves. It's not daring, its human nature to ask questions. And it's not hate.

I have friends in Ossetia and Georgia. Nobody is pleased with it. Nobody wants that America interfered

I hope your friends get through this. NATO might interfere if this continues to get so out of hand, but that's NATO, not just the US. And trust me nobody wanted russia to invade in the first place. Why no sanctions or diplomacy? I realize this is funny considering Iraq, but since that's widely accepted as a mistake now why repeat it?
 
Yes, I’m Russian and I live near Moscow.
I at once have told it and I do not hide it. I want to offend nobody. If I did, I’m sorry. So, I told my English no so good.
But you should know our point. We do not want war.
The first Georgia has attacked, it is the fact. Has attacked peace inhabitants. Do not deny it
Ossetia asked us about the help like Georgia asks about the help the USA.

I think, media lies always. I have many friends in the USA, too. Not everyone see the monster in Russia.
Understand me, too! Please! I think, it is tragedy. I shall not make comments Putin. I have got confused in lie.
Georgia has attacked Russia. And Russia has answered. That I know all this. it is the truth. Those who has survived, know it

Thanks everyone for comments
regards
 
Yes, I’m Russian and I live near Moscow.
I at once have told it and I do not hide it. I want to offend nobody. If I did, I’m sorry. So, I told my English no so good.
But you should know our point. We do not want war.
The first Georgia has attacked, it is the fact. Has attacked peace inhabitants. Do not deny it
Ossetia asked us about the help like Georgia asks about the help the USA.

I think, media lies always. I have many friends in the USA, too. Not everyone see the monster in Russia.
Understand me, too! Please! I think, it is tragedy. I shall not make comments Putin. I have got confused in lie.
Georgia has attacked Russia. And Russia has answered. That I know all this. it is the truth. Those who has survived, know it

Thanks everyone for comments
regards

I apologize if I came off aggressive in any way, that wasn't my intention. I asked the first questions to understand your situation not to call you out. I know you're struggling with the language a bit, but I think you're doing very well, keep it up and in another year you'll know far more english than I do.

I do believe that some georgians killed the russian peacekeepers and started this, but you don't invade other countries because of a few deaths unless that's your cover story. You don't carpet bomb villages to make up for some losses. Russia has been building up forces for an attack for quite a while, the deaths just set it off. A US tourist just got killed in China, does that give the US the right to invade china? If you really don't want war, you work for peace.
 
I apologize if I came off aggressive in any way, that wasn't my intention. I asked the first questions to understand your situation not to call you out. I know you're struggling with the language a bit, but I think you're doing very well, keep it up and in another year you'll know far more english than I do.

I do believe that some georgians killed the russian peacekeepers and started this, but you don't invade other countries because of a few deaths unless that's your cover story. You don't carpet bomb villages to make up for some losses. Russia has been building up forces for an attack for quite a while, the deaths just set it off. A US tourist just got killed in China, does that give the US the right to invade china? If you really don't want war, you work for peace.


Thank you, you’re adequate man ))
Video can be forged. Georgia wants that in Russia saw menace. Why? You know the answer. Authority. Oil
34.000 people in Ossetia need to helps!! To Russia there come immigrants.
How you think, if Russia has not answered, what would happen further? It is obvious. Georgia would think that Russia is weak. So started real war
To stop an aggressor aggression is necessary.
Sorry.
So hard to me…
 
Actually you're quite concise, you just need a bit with the grammar, but you're understandable.

If the only right call for agressors is to act with agression then you would agree with invasions of china, sudan, the current iraq situation of course, iran and any other country that's shown such acts? Wouldn't you at least say diplomacy should be tried? Or does reputation outweigh the human life lost right now?
 
Actually you're quite concise, you just need a bit with the grammar, but you're understandable.

If the only right call for agressors is to act with agression then you would agree with invasions of china, sudan, the current iraq situation of course, iran and any other country that's shown such acts? Wouldn't you at least say diplomacy should be tried? Or does reputation outweigh the human life lost right now?

no way :(
i don't mean it
But it is different situations.
Georgia was the friend to Russia. Georgia has attacked us. This treachery. All this that I can tell.
conclusions
 
no way :(
i don't mean it
But it is different situations.
Georgia was the friend to Russia. Georgia has attacked us. This treachery. All this that I can tell.
conclusions

Didn't the Georgian Government expel Russian's that worked at the Russian Embassy because espionage was expected?

Didn't Russia respond by dramatically increasing prices of the energy Russia supplied to the country?

Yes - Russia and Georgia are BFF's :huh:
 
Until Russia involved itself, it was solely between Georgia and the South Osettian separatists.

The US hasn't sent over a single soldier.

If anyone is being aggressive, it's Russia. Unless you consider bombing cities that miles away from the actual conflict to be standard procedure, as well as ignoring Georgia's calls for cease-fire.

and the security council.


I understand that this region sees itself as more Russian than Georgian.....

But what if all the hispanics in the Houston Metro area decided they wanted that region to be part of Mexico....so they start retaliating, and then Mexico decides to come in take over that area, and then....oh yeah........we want to take over the Austin Metro area, AND the Dallas Metro area.......not cool. I think the US would be alittle pissed....
 
I'm russian. yes. and i tell truth to you

My heart is broken off and my eyes bleed.
In day of opening of Olympiad in Peking, Georgia has perfidiously opened fire across South Ossetia which is included in territories of Russia
South Ossetia is not a territory of Russia. It is a part of Georgia and Georgia's claim to the territory is recognized by the international community. Georgia has the right to assert its authority on its territory when separatists break the cease fire.

Even though the Russian language, Russian currency, and Russian passports are used in South Ossetia, the people of South Ossetia are not the people of Russia.

Women and children have been killed. Our soldiers come to help wounded people and have been killed, too
Russia is breaking international law by violating Georgia's territorial sovereignty. Russia does not have the right to kick Georgia out of its own territory.

Using the excuse of peacekeepers getting killed is not a valid one. Peacekeepers get killed. It is tragic yes and should not happen, but it does. If nations had the right to invade because their peacekeepers were killed the United States would have had the right to do what Russia is doing to Georgia in Somalia and Lebanon. The Sudan would have been invaded by now by all the peacekeepers killed there.

Now when I look news all worlds condemn Russia. For what? Russia has struck back!!
Again, peacekeepers are not a valid reason to do this particular action. There is absolutely no precedent at all in international law that allows something like this.

Wow! yes, Russia is evil! Russia is bad!
Russia is getting condemned because they are violating Georgia's rights as a member of the international community and are going way too far in doing so as well.

Are you blind, folks?!!!
What will you do when yours the neighbor will hurt your mother or the daughter or the wife?! I ask you!!

We always helped our neighbors! We were never aggressive to anybody! Never! Learn a history, people! We not aggressors! We protect the rights and the territories and the citizens!
Russia has always had an aggressive history by taking part in the partition of Poland, conquering the Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia in World War II, conquering Finland from Sweden in 1809, setting up puppet governments in Eastern Europe during the Cold War, etc.

Russian aggression is why former Russian territories of Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Georgia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan have adopted pro-Western policies and aggressively condemn this latest action. Former Russian satellite states like Romania, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Bulgaria are doing the same and joining the European Union and NATO.

It meanly. It is wrong
Please. Do not trust media! I shall tell to you the truth. I live here.
The media is portraying this conflict as it. They show that Georgia has gone too far in its offensive in trying to assert control in its own territory, but they also show that Russia is going too far.

I do not want that my husband or the brother were lost. I hope, you do not want that your friends from Russia were lost, too
The best way to ensure that the people of Russia, Georgia, Abkhazia, and South Ossetia do not suffer from anymore losses is through diplomacy. Something that Russia is currently not doing. They refuse Georgia's cease-fire offer. They reject the UN's cease-fire. And are ignoring calls to call of their attack.

Please! Everyone who reads it! Know the truth! We have been attacked by our neighbors. By relatives! We are protected, we do not attack. Protest the war! Protect innocent! Tell the truth!
I am tired. I want to live. I do not want to participate in politics tricks.
Ummm...okay.

And the last. Not a secret, that the attack has been provoked by USA.
No it wasn't. The United States did not provoke Georgia into doing this. South Ossetian rebels did. The United States simply provides military aid to Georgia which they've been doing for years now.

I want to tell, we’ll not suffer!
Nobody! Never! No war for my country!
Your country is a war right now and are not letting up!
 

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