Can there be a winner? DC or Marvel Heroes/Villains?

BAH HUMBBUG!

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Hey everyone, well if you are up to speed then you already know what I am talking about and what has been going on over in the Marvel vs. DC thread in the Marvel forums. Recently HellStorm (the thread creator) posed the question of who would win a vs. battle, all of the Marvel Super Heroes or all of the DC Super Heroes?

Of course he set up a few ground rules, but that just snowballed into a much larger discussion and we sort of started to take over his thread after he posted a couple other battles.

I am creating this thread for those that would really want to know what a real no hold bare DC vs. Marvel Universal war would be like. This is not some lame half ass attempt like the one Dc and Marvel have pulled in the past, which usually just sums up to a popularity contest leading to nothing. Instead I and others so far have actually discussed the possibilities that would result in such a war.

If you do so wish to post in this thread please feel free, but this isn't post a vote thread. Similar to Sparta*'s HellStorm's and others. I am not knocking their at all they are fun and fast.

This is more of a well thought out debate, what would really happen if a comic book was written with no bias towards a specific character; Batman, Captain America, Superman, Thor or anyone else. If they fall, they fall regardless of popularity.

This probably seems too much to ask for every person in here to post and debate on every single character in both the DC and Marvel universe. Considering there are thousands of them. A few of us are on the same page though, being that this war would really be determined by the upper echelon of Heroes in their respective universes.

For example: While Doctor Strange, Silver Surfer, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Thor and others are battling it out for total domination. I don't think they will really be concerned with the likes of Batman, Captain America, Blue Beetle, Black Panther and so on. Simply because once one side has a distinct advantage in terms of sheer might, say leaving the Hulk, Sentry and Doctor Strange standing along with many regulars from Marvel.

Taking care of characters like Blue Beetle, Booster Gold and others will not be very difficult with those huge power houses left. That being said, I guess the first place to start, other than the rules would be who the top are their characters that would sway the favor of victory towards one universe or the other?

But first a few simple ground rules that myself and others have brought up for consideration.

1. Participants only from DC Earth One Universe and Marvel 616 Universe.

2. Current characters only and who ever holds the mantle. Ex: Wally West is known as holding the current mantle of the Flash, there for he is the only Flash allowed. But Kyle Rayner as well as Guy Killowag and other Green Lanterns are allowed due to the fact that they are individual characters that each posses their own Power Ring.

3. Participants will appear as they most recently have (unless otherwise noted). Ex: Spider-Man in the 616 currently wears a Spider-Armor costume, so there for he would appear as wearing such. Wally West, presumed dead will still be allowed, due to the fact that no death has been confirmed. During his last or current appearance he was still alive.

4. All dead characters are just that. Dead. Captain Mar-Vell can not participate.

5. No Cosmic beings from either side. Beings such as the Gods of Olympus in DC and the Sky fathers of Asgard will be discussed more thoroughly. Ex: Guardians of the Universe, Galactus is a Cosmic being, Silver Surfer is not, he wields a fraction of the might of the Power Cosmic, and it’s not the same thing. Spectre is up for debate.

6. Participants will only be allowed if they have appeared in the comic books. Ex: There are 7200 recorded Green Lantern Corps through out the Universe, but only a small number of them have actually appeared in the Universe, so only they are allowed. Reason, we have no clue how powerful or weak the others may be.

7. Participants must clearly be heroes or made their last appearance as a hero. Ex: Thanos and Magneto in the past have fought along side heroes but currently they are not. Black Adam has been a villain in the past but currently is a hero, there for he is allowed.

8. Participants must be either originally created in their universe as a comic book character or bought out right from another company. Ex: Captain Marvel/Shazam was not originally a DC hero, but has been now for decades due to DC acquiring his rights. Star Wars characters on the other hand may have been in Marvel Comics but they are not allowed to participate due to the fact that they were created for a motion picture.

9. Beings will each keep their respective powers regardless of where they fight. Ex: There is no Speed Force in the 616 so Wally would only have his powers for an un-specified amount of time. Wanda (the Scarlet Witch) powers would not work the same way in the Earth One universe the way they do in the 616. These as well as others powers are retained in full both groups fighting on neutral ground where their powers are not affected by the change of dimension. But if their power requires an element, say water for Namor to retain his might that will still affect him in terms of him weakening or not.

10. There is no prep-time (Batman is God) rule as well as the opponents have no idea about each other or their powers/abilities/weaknesses right off the bat. However, prep time may be accessed on the field during combat. Ex: Captain Marvel, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash and J'onn buy Dr. Fate time to cast a spell then prep time is allowed. No prep time before entering battle to set up a strategy of any kind.

So far Vanguard07 any myself have somewhat put together a list in an attempt to rally the mightiest from each Universe to do battle. Here is what we came up with so far.

DC

1. Superman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Kyle Rayner GL
4. Wally West-Flash
5. Impulse
6. J'onn
7. Dr. Fate
8. Captain Marvel
9. Mary Marvel
10. Kilowog GlC
11. Guy Gardner GLC
12. Maxima
13. Power Girl
14. Hawkman
15. Wonder Girl


Marvel
1.Dr Strange
2.Silver Surfer
3.the Sentry
4.Nate Grey-Xman
5.Nova (last seen harnessing the entire nova force and the xandar worldmind in case you were wondering)
6.Quasar
7.Iron Man (last seen with Extremis virus)
8.Rachel Grey
9.Gladiator
10.Thor! (last seen as king thor, with the rune magic unless i'm mistaken)
11. Psylocke (last seen enhanced by jamie braddock to be immune to telepathy and all forms of reality manipulation and a lot of magics and such also the earth shattering teke and ninja powers would come in handy)
12. Reed Richards (biggest brain in the world dammit)
13. Black Bolt (too big an asset to pass up imo)
14. Adam Warlock
15.... Umm actually i'm out of ideas. So rather than fill the rest up with less valuable characters I'll leave it to my trusted fellow hypsters to think it out and post some worthy warriors.
16. Gladiator
17. Firelord (Hearld of Galactus)
18. Airwalker (Hearld of Galactus)
19. Hyperion (not sure about hit current/last status)
20. Scarlet Witch
21. Wonderman
22. Drax
23. Eros
24. Hercules
25. Maxim
26. Hulk
 
of course there can be a winner! Marvel wins hands down with the list of hero's mentioned. i mean, if you get all the high powered (cosmic/thor and asgardians and lantern/superman) to fight in outer space, while pitting super humans on Earth, giving each participant fight time, marvel charectors would win regardless. Superman prime is an assest to DC, but he simply cant compete to the number of Hyperions (squad supreme and Exiles) or even the surfer. On earth, HULK and Herc would smash, while Reed can clearly outhink his opponents. I mean, i can hardly find a reason to believe that DC would win. let alone the fact that the Living Ttibunal has always acted as a Hero. Invisible women can practical beat the flash with any creative partner. i dunno, im just suprisede anyone could vote for DC.
 
oh yeah, that was my first reply pleasure to join this place
 
BAH HUMBBUG! said:
DC
1. Superman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Kyle Rayner GL
4. Wally West-Flash
5. Impulse
6. J'onn
7. Dr. Fate
8. Captain Marvel
9. Mary Marvel
10. Kilowog GlC
11. Guy Gardner GLC
12. Maxima
13. Power Girl
14. Hawkman
15. Wonder Girl
Hawkman!? Let me help you guys out here:
1. Superman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Ion (Kyle Rayner)
4. Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
5. Green Lantern (Guy Gardner)
6. Green Lantern (John Steward)
7. Green Lantern (Kilowog)
8. Flash (Jay Garrick)
9. Kid Flash (Bart Allen) [currently depowered though]
10. Aquaman
11. Captain Marvel
12. Mary Marvel
13. Captain Marvel Jr.
14. Martian Manhunter
15. Dr. Fate (Hector Hall) [currently dead though]
16. Green Lantern (Alan Scott)
17. Zatanna
18. Captain Atom
19. Black Adam
20. Power Girl
21. Supergirl
22. Red Tornado
23. Tempest [current status unknown however]
24. Firestorm

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
 
Harlekin said:
Hawkman!? Let me help you guys out here:
1. Superman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Ion (Kyle Rayner)
4. Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
5. Green Lantern (Guy Gardner)
6. Green Lantern (John Steward)
7. Green Lantern (Kilowog)
8. Flash (Jay Garrick)
9. Kid Flash (Bart Allen) [currently depowered though]
10. Aquaman
11. Captain Marvel
12. Mary Marvel
13. Captain Marvel Jr.
14. Martian Manhunter
15. Dr. Fate (Hector Hall) [currently dead though]
16. Green Lantern (Alan Scott)
17. Zatanna
18. Captain Atom
19. Black Adam
20. Power Girl
21. Supergirl
22. Red Tornado
23. Tempest [current status unknown however]
24. Firestorm

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I completely forgot about Firestorm, don't know how I did. Wouldn't Ion be considered a cosmic type being now? Just curious because he is near omnipotent.

Is Hal Jordan back in action as a GL? John Stewart?
 
BAH HUMBBUG! said:
I completely forgot about Firestorm, don't know how I did. Wouldn't Ion be considered a cosmic type being now? Just curious because he is near omnipotent.

Is Hal Jordan back in action as a GL? John Stewart?
Well, we haven't really seen what Ion can do yet. You can just go for the GL version too though. Yeah, John and Hal have been Green Lanterns for at least a year now again (John even longer than that).
 
The Quiz. End of story. DC wins. :D
 
There are a lot of Marvel characters that have not been mentioned: Ikaris, Thena, Valkin, Kismet, Shanga the Star Dancer, Dakimh, Jennifer Kale, Dr. Druid, Sunturion, The Futurist, Lockjaw, Monica Rambeau, The Overmind, Sundragon, Moondragon, the Ghost Rider. Makkari is in the same class of speed as the Flash, maybe a little slower maybe not, But he is 200 times stronger at a guess, smarter, and has been doing the super speed thing for centuries. Consider the possibilities of a uni mind which can include humans and should therefore include mutants. Put many of Marvels psionics in a uni mind and watch the fun.
 
Silicon Surfer said:
There are a lot of Marvel characters that have not been mentioned: Ikaris, Thena, Valkin, Kismet, Shanga the Star Dancer, Dakimh, Jennifer Kale, Dr. Druid, Sunturion, The Futurist, Lockjaw, Monica Rambeau, The Overmind, Sundragon, Moondragon, the Ghost Rider. Makkari is in the same class of speed as the Flash, maybe a little slower maybe not, But he is 200 times stronger at a guess, smarter, and has been doing the super speed thing for centuries. Consider the possibilities of a uni mind which can include humans and should therefore include mutants. Put many of Marvels psionics in a uni mind and watch the fun.

But how many of those are considered Elders, Eternals, Gods and so on?
 
Silicon Surfer said:
Sorry! The joke is lost on me. I have no clue what you are refering to.

Ditto, I have no clue what Peck is talking about.:confused:
 
The Quiz is quite arguably the most powerful character ever created. Her power is that she has ever super power you've never thought of :D
 
Elijya said:
The Quiz is quite arguably the most powerful character ever created. Her power is that she has ever super power you've never thought of :D


The quiz sucks

As soon as you know what power she's using , she loses it:o

All the good powers are ones you woud know about anyway
 
no way, you don't have enough imagination.

Just think "the wisest man knows he knows nothing"

there are more powers out there then you could ever think of.

when I think weird powers, I always think about seth, the guy with 1,000 powers who took apart the authority. One of his powers was he crapped a rainbow in someone's brain. Betcha didn't think of that one, didja?
 
That isn't a power, thats just stating "something happens"

That like saying me being able to **** out a happy meal is a power or if by saying the word peanut I can make your head fall off:o

Those aren't powers and if they are they'd probbaly comes under some already established ability like reality manipualtion or something.

Also technically once you realise she has the power to manifest all the powers you've never heard off she would then be powerless

A high end telepath finishes the quiz in roughly 10 seconds

Any Omnisceient being also crushes her ass, shes far from being the most powerful:o
 
Another heavy hitter (if this is taking place on earth) for DC would be Swamp Thing. Very underrated, but could definately be good in a fight on land.
 
Guyverjay said:
That isn't a power, thats just stating "something happens"

That like saying me being able to **** out a happy meal is a power or if by saying the word peanut I can make your head fall off:o

Those aren't powers and if they are they'd probbaly comes under some already established ability like reality manipualtion or something.
but that's too broad. you wouldn't be able to say "she does stuff just by thinking about it" and have that eliminate every ability that qualifies as that (and what really doesn't)

Just look at all the fire powers out there: Pyro's power is not the same as Firestar's, which is not the same as the Human Torch's, which is not the same as the original Human Torch's, which is not the same as Ghost Rider's, which is not the same as Rusty Colins, which is not the same as Sunfire's, which is not the same as Burnout's, which is not the same as Fire's, etc. etc. All these people have differences in their powers, and anyone with the ability to have "every power you've never heard of" would have these and a billion other variations, and I don't think they would all just go away if you said "she has fire powers"
Guyverjay said:
Also technically once you realise she has the power to manifest all the powers you've never heard off she would then be powerless
Fairly sure there's a fail-safe on that one
Guyverjay said:
A high end telepath finishes the quiz in roughly 10 seconds

Any Omnisceient being also crushes her ass, shes far from being the most powerful:o
she could have 6 billion different types of telepathic shieldings (each different enough that they don't go away just by guessing "she has telepathic shielding")

and in any case, I'm speaking more on the theory of her power than of it's actual portrayal, which may have been limited if the author (Morrison, I think) didn't fully think it out at the time. She only ever had one appearence as far as I know.
 
Elijya said:
but that's too broad. you wouldn't be able to say "she does stuff just by thinking about it" and have that eliminate every ability that qualifies as that (and what really doesn't)

Just look at all the fire powers out there: Pyro's power is not the same as Firestar's, which is not the same as the Human Torch's, which is not the same as the original Human Torch's, which is not the same as Ghost Rider's, which is not the same as Rusty Colins, which is not the same as Sunfire's, which is not the same as Burnout's, which is not the same as Fire's, etc. etc. All these people have differences in their powers, and anyone with the ability to have "every power you've never heard of" would have these and a billion other variations, and I don't think they would all just go away if you said "she has fire powers"

Fairly sure there's a fail-safe on that one

she could have 6 billion different types of telepathic shieldings (each different enough that they don't go away just by guessing "she has telepathic shielding")

and in any case, I'm speaking more on the theory of her power than of it's actual portrayal, which may have been limited if the author (Morrison, I think) didn't fully think it out at the time. She only ever had one appearence as far as I know.

I get what you're saying about her Peck, but like you say in theory. In theory Silver Surfer may transcend all beings in the Marve Universe. In theory Sentry may be able to beat Galactus. etc.
 
BAH HUMBBUG! said:
But how many of those are considered Elders, Eternals, Gods and so on?

Well... Thor is also a God but made it on the list...

I would have added the Invisible Woman to the Marvel list, as Malice she beat Mr. Fantastic, The Human Torch and The Thing.

I'm not sure about current Marvel comics, but isn't there also a new Captain Marvel, (a black woman), who can convert herself to light among other things?
 
redmarvel said:
Well... Thor is also a God but made it on the list...

I would have added the Invisible Woman to the Marvel list, as Malice she beat Mr. Fantastic, The Human Torch and The Thing.

I'm not sure about current Marvel comics, but isn't there also a new Captain Marvel, (a black woman), who can convert herself to light among other things?

I was going to add her into it too and the thing, just some characters start to slip your mind.
 
redmarvel said:
I'm not sure about current Marvel comics, but isn't there also a new Captain Marvel, (a black woman), who can convert herself to light among other things?
Depends on what you call 'new' really, considering that Captain Marvel has been around for over two decades.
 
How about Duplicate Boy from the Legion comics? He has every power period. He can also sense and analyze powers.
 
Harlekin said:
Depends on what you call 'new' really, considering that Captain Marvel has been around for over two decades.

:o Has it been that long? Wow... I get my comics on sale, 3 for 5, but unfortunatly that means they are all the back issues that didn't sell. Which means I am far from "current" when it comes to my comics.
 

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