Chemtrails: What in the world are they Spraying?

[Doctor Evo]

How do you explain the the levels that have been tested in waters/snow/soil that have been known to have these air crafts fly daily over their area in these unique patters? Its not a mystery chemical, its Aluminum/Manganese/Barium. There are way to concentrate these toxins, so maybe 85 ft wide and 18 miles long could yield such high results?

http://rense.com/general82/chemit.htm

Couple of problems with the report. First and foremost is the collection method. We don't know what the standard procedure is for collection; a period of 4 - 8 hours allows for substantial accumulation. We need to know how the contaminant levels and thresholds are actually obtained measured in order to draw any meaningful conclusions. That information is conspicuously lacking in this report and could serve as a huge potential source of bias. This makes the comparison nearly useless.

This should also set off some alarm bells re: credibility and bias:

However, anyone who has ever been inside a tent an hour or more after the sun comes up on a cool day knows it will get hot inside quite fast. It could be that Teller's theory is flawed, and that instead of reflecting the sunlight barium and aluminum are accelerating global warming. After several decades of chemtrail spraying weather records clearly show our planet is not cooling off. In the spring of 2008, the US army announced the problem is with the Sun and that global warming is not directly caused by civilization.

There's also this:

Clearly, there must be a source for these very high levels of heavy metals in the Phoenix environment. It could very well be a direct result of chemtrail spraying, since the trails have been commonly seen in the sky over Phoenix and other cities. If these levels are elevated in Phoenix's air, it may stand to reason that the same problem is happening all over the country elsewhere. It's quite possible that these various metals are elevated in different amounts in the air over other cities. More tests like this are needed for other cities, with air sampling and analysis performed in the exact same way to allow proper correlation.

To draw meaningful conclusions, we would have to have similar tests over a variety of areas, not just cities, including those with a relative absence (or greatly reduced incidence) of these supposed "chemtrails." The idea of a control is a fairly basic concept; the report is littered with language that suggests a lack of understanding of both scientific and statistical methods.

tl;dr: The conclusions drawn here are highly suspect.

 

[C. Lee]

So what are those jets flying back and forth over my valley, holographic illusions?

Aliens. They have cleverly designed their spaceships to look like airplanes.

 

[Darthphere]

No C.Lee, they're clearly holograms created by our Reptilian overlords to distract us from their true agenda, taking our guns.

 

[Piper Maru]

Whew! I thought it was the Decepticon army farting energon all over the earth.

 

[Enriquespy]

I thougth they where just planes minding their own bussines.

 

[C. Lee]

No C.Lee, they're clearly holograms created by our Reptilian overlords to distract us from their true agenda, taking our guns.

Ka nama kaa lajerama.......

 

[Darthphere]

Ka nama kaa lajerama.......

Yagkoolan yok tha xuthalla...

 

[Hotwire]

How do you explain the the levels that have been tested in waters/snow/soil that have been known to have these air crafts fly daily over their area in these unique patters? Its not a mystery chemical, its Aluminum/Manganese/Barium. There are way to concentrate these toxins, so maybe 85 ft wide and 18 miles long could yield such high results?

http://rense.com/general82/chemit.htm

Well, it would take a minimum of over 33 million gallons of chemicals to cover the 516 square miles Phoenix takes up. And that's saying that the wind isn't blowing. Usong the KC -141 that cherokeesam mentioned, it would require 802 trips with a lot of turning around!

 

[C. Lee]

Yagkoolan yok tha xuthalla...

Like a Jimmy Buffett fan.....

 

[NickNitro]

what has my thread become

 

[Hotwire]

what has my thread become

A joke. Just like he chemtrail conspiracy theory. All in all, I'd say it's a rather natural progression.


Oh, a few more numbers. In order to spray the entire United States, the government would need 249.6 billion gallons of chemicals. Producing that would require and operation roughly 80 times larger than Coca-Cola!

 

[cherokeesam]

Well, it would take a minimum of over 33 million gallons of chemicals to cover the 516 square miles Phoenix takes up. And that's saying that the wind isn't blowing. Usong the KC -141 that cherokeesam mentioned, it would require 802 trips with a lot of turning around!

What is your obsession with numbers here, exactly....? Did anybody suggest the chemtrails were blanketing every square inch of every city on earth or something....?

Those numbers you dug up earlier describe my almost daily situation with chemtrails. 2-3 planes flying back and forth, for 2 to 3 hours on any given blue-sky day? Yup. A chemtrail about 18 miles long and 185 feet wide? Well, no: the ones I've seen are smaller than *that.* They're usually about 6-8 miles long, tops, and no wider than a football field across. Depending on the altitude. From there, though, the chemtrail slowly disperses over about 4+ hours to fan out across the sky until all that's left is a lingering murky, hazy film-like cloud that covers most of the sky. What folks around here call a "buttermilk sky."

Look, here's a quick photo gallery of what skies around here look like, and around *any* chemtrail spray. Pay particular attention to where, and when, those photos were taken. And this was one of the easier finds....just Googled "kc-141 chemtrail" under Images.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=dcY_UfnyLOvB4AOdvoAo

 

[Enriquespy]

Any insider fessing up? No? None? None at all?


It's almost like they dont exist

 

[Doctor Evo]

What is your obsession with numbers here, exactly....? Did anybody suggest the chemtrails were blanketing every square inch of every city on earth or something....?

Those numbers you dug up earlier describe my almost daily situation with chemtrails. 2-3 planes flying back and forth, for 2 to 3 hours on any given blue-sky day? Yup. A chemtrail about 18 miles long and 185 feet wide? Well, no: the ones I've seen are smaller than *that.* They're usually about 6-8 miles long, tops, and no wider than a football field across. Depending on the altitude. From there, though, the chemtrail slowly disperses over about 4+ hours to fan out across the sky until all that's left is a lingering murky, hazy film-like cloud that covers most of the sky. What folks around here call a "buttermilk sky."

Look, here's a quick photo gallery of what skies around here look like, and around *any* chemtrail spray. Pay particular attention to where, and when, those photos were taken. And this was one of the easier finds....just Googled "kc-141 chemtrail" under Images.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=dcY_UfnyLOvB4AOdvoAo

Those look like regular contrails to me.

 

[Hotwire]

What is your obsession with numbers here, exactly....? Did anybody suggest the chemtrails were blanketing every square inch of every city on earth or something....?

Those numbers you dug up earlier describe my almost daily situation with chemtrails. 2-3 planes flying back and forth, for 2 to 3 hours on any given blue-sky day? Yup. A chemtrail about 18 miles long and 185 feet wide? Well, no: the ones I've seen are smaller than *that.* They're usually about 6-8 miles long, tops, and no wider than a football field across. Depending on the altitude. From there, though, the chemtrail slowly disperses over about 4+ hours to fan out across the sky until all that's left is a lingering murky, hazy film-like cloud that covers most of the sky. What folks around here call a "buttermilk sky."

Look, here's a quick photo gallery of what skies around here look like, and around *any* chemtrail spray. Pay particular attention to where, and when, those photos were taken. And this was one of the easier finds....just Googled "kc-141 chemtrail" under Images.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=dcY_UfnyLOvB4AOdvoAo

I guess my obsession with the number is that they prove just how absurd this conspiracy theory is. You're actually suggesting that the government is loading up planes in Macon, GA, sending them on a 600 mile round trip to spray 0.6 square miles of toxic chemicals on your little podunk town, and then... Do it again! Several times a day! Do you see how inefficient that is?

I will say, the hand drawn diagram made me laugh. They actually suggested that 25,000 gallons was enough to produce any kind of trail! That amount of liquid would only cover 250 acres. That's smaller than your average farm.

 

[cherokeesam]

Any insider fessing up? No? None? None at all?


It's almost like they dont exist

Would you like to now use your same post to apply to what the government and general public said about the effects of nuclear testing in the American desert during the 1950s? About Agent Orange in the Vietnam War in the 1960s? About fallout from Three Mile Island in the 1970s? Etc. Etc. Etc.

Governments lie about things that hurt or kill people all the time. Including our own government. Doesn't mean they were trying to maliciously cover anything up; it's just that most of them genuinely didn't know any better and thought, "hey, nuclear weapons and chemical agents....what's the worst that could happen....?"

Those look like regular contrails to me.

There's a difference. Some of those photos show those differences. I see 'em myself, during a typical spray day: the contrails from water vapor/ice from the (very) few commercial jetliners in the area are much higher in the atmosphere, and are very small and compact, don't disperse or linger, and follow the plane closely. Chemtrails scatter and linger for hours at a time.

I guess my obsession with the number is that they prove just how absurd this conspiracy theory is. You're actually suggesting that the government is loading up planes in Macon, GA, sending them on a 600 mile round trip to spray 0.6 square miles of toxic chemicals on your little podunk town, and then... Do it again! Several times a day! Do you see how inefficient that is?


I will say, the hand drawn diagram made me laugh. They actually suggested that 25,000 gallons was enough to produce any kind of trail! That amount of liquid would only cover 250 acres. That's smaller than your average farm.

Sure, it would be an absurd conspiracy theory if my "podunk town" (hey thanks for the insult, guy) was the only one targeted. Too bad it's not. Again, just Google "chemtrails" and you'll see that they've been photographed and videoed by thousands of people (and most of us don't even wear tinfoil hats....whaddya know) around the ****ing planet for the past 10-15 years.

You can argue about the "implausibility" all you want, but the photographic evidence is there on a daily basis, by (again) thousands of people around the world.

Implausible? Hey, whatever floats your boat.
Real? Absolutely.

You can argue and debate about what *is* actually in the chemtrails and *why* they're doing it, and I don't have any more of an answer for you than anybody else does. But all I know is that they *are* doing it. In my backyard, and plenty of other people's as well.

 

[Doctor Evo]

There's a difference. Some of those photos show those differences. I see 'em myself, during a typical spray day: the contrails from water vapor/ice from the (very) few commercial jetliners in the area are much higher in the atmosphere, and are very small and compact, don't disperse or linger, and follow the plane closely. Chemtrails scatter and linger for hours at a time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

K.

 

[Hotwire]

Sure, it would be an absurd conspiracy theory if my "podunk town" (hey thanks for the insult, guy) was the only one targeted. Too bad it's not. Again, just Google "chemtrails" and you'll see that they've been photographed and videoed by thousands of people (and most of us don't even wear tinfoil hats....whaddya know) around the ****ing planet for the past 10-15 years.

You can argue about the "implausibility" all you want, but the photographic evidence is there on a daily basis, by (again) thousands of people around the world.

Implausible? Hey, whatever floats your boat.
Real? Absolutely.

You can argue and debate about what *is* actually in the chemtrails and *why* they're doing it, and I don't have any more of an answer for you than anybody else does. But all I know is that they *are* doing it. In my backyard, and plenty of other people's as well.

It wasn't meant as an insult. Podunk is just another word for small town. That being said, just look at the sheer volume of chemicals that would be required to pull off spraying the whole planet. I've already shown you would need roughly 80 times the production of Coca-Cola just to cover the U.S.. Would you like to see the numbers on what it would take to spray the Earth? Also, something I doubt you've considered, where are the mines that are collecting all of the barium and aluminum that the conspiracy theorists say are being sprayed? On top of the volume of liquid you need to spray you're also going to need a LOT of these metals, too. That means you're going to need to mine them. Instead of showing me pictures of "chemtrails", show me the mines, chemical plants, and storage facilities. These places would be storing close to a cubic kilometer of chemicals.

 

[NickNitro]

Hotwire, I'm pretty sure chemicals being sprayed into a towns water supply wouldn't take long for it to spread. From a river, to an ocean, to soil, etc.

You are hung up on the idea that the world governments are blanketing the globe everyday. Let it go, its not the case we are trying to make. If the US Gov even sprayed a micron of unnecessary chemicals into the air, which inadvertently caused a single person to get cancer, or killed one animal, its wrong and they should be held accountable.

Where should morality draw the line? "Well you see.....we didn't cover ALL the major cities, we only actually infected a few smaller towns around the US most of you probably never heard of, so not to worry, the day to day will keep on going."

 

[Hotwire]

Hotwire, I'm pretty sure chemicals being sprayed into a towns water supply wouldn't take long for it to spread. From a river, to an ocean, to soil, etc.

You are hung up on the idea that the world governments are blanketing the globe everyday. Let it go, its not the case we are trying to make. If the US Gov even sprayed a micron of unnecessary chemicals into the air, which inadvertently caused a single person to get cancer, or killed one animal, its wrong and they should be held accountable.

Where should morality draw the line? "Well you see.....we didn't cover ALL the major cities, we only actually infected a few smaller towns around the US most of you probably never heard of, so not to worry, the day to day will keep on going."

Again, go look up the term "parts per million".

Besides, I started off showing you just how little area a huge plane like a 747 could effectively cover. Then the ante was upped to Denver, then Phoenix, the a little town 300 miles from the Air Force base accused of sending them. I've shown you just how ridiculous the theory is when you try to show how it's done.

You still want to believe in this BS, be my guest.

 

[Darthphere]

Hotwire, I'm pretty sure chemicals being sprayed into a towns water supply wouldn't take long for it to spread. From a river, to an ocean, to soil, etc.

You are hung up on the idea that the world governments are blanketing the globe everyday. Let it go, its not the case we are trying to make. If the US Gov even sprayed a micron of unnecessary chemicals into the air, which inadvertently caused a single person to get cancer, or killed one animal, its wrong and they should be held accountable.

Where should morality draw the line? "Well you see.....we didn't cover ALL the major cities, we only actually infected a few smaller towns around the US most of you probably never heard of, so not to worry, the day to day will keep on going."

Yes, but how do you go about proving that? I mean honestly, I'm no expert but there could be dozens of different reasons for someone in those areas getting cancer or some other disease. Honestly, everyday on the news there are new reasons for people having cancer.

 

[cherokeesam]

It wasn't meant as an insult. Podunk is just another word for small town. That being said, just look at the sheer volume of chemicals that would be required to pull off spraying the whole planet. I've already shown you would need roughly 80 times the production of Coca-Cola just to cover the U.S.. Would you like to see the numbers on what it would take to spray the Earth? Also, something I doubt you've considered, where are the mines that are collecting all of the barium and aluminum that the conspiracy theorists say are being sprayed? On top of the volume of liquid you need to spray you're also going to need a LOT of these metals, too. That means you're going to need to mine them. Instead of showing me pictures of "chemtrails", show me the mines, chemical plants, and storage facilities. These places would be storing close to a cubic kilometer of chemicals.

Perfectly valid point; but again, I don't pretend to know what kind of chemicals or metals are in these trails, only that we can see visible effects on cloud cover, climate change, and health risks.

Going back to the contrail Wiki that Doctor Evo posted, even that article describes studies showing the effects of contrails on climate change and global warming.

Look, I'm sure that a lot of the chemtrail "activists" believe this "conspiracy" is malicious and eee-vil and all that; I view it in a lot simpler terms. I think it's just that some scientist or other started out with what he thought was a good idea at the time (i.e., forming artificial cloud cover to lessen exposure to the sun, and therefore alleviate global warming) and it turned into a very bad idea that does more harm than good. See: nuclear power, cigarettes, better living through chemistry, etc.

All I'm personally hoping for is some actual investigation into the matter by people who are willing to view it objectively, instead of through the blinders of tinfoil-hatters and instant skeptics.

 

[C. Lee]

It wasn't meant as an insult. Podunk is just another word for small town.

I understand that you may not have meant it as an insult...but to older people it is. I'm not sure how many younger people use it or even have a vague idea what it means....but to us of the older generations (and Cherokee fits this bill) it's a way to describe a backward town full of not bright and unintelligent people. Just remember that for future reference......also.....the fact that it's use was derived from the "more civilized' whites condescendingly describing the Podunk tribe of Native Americans in their area could also be a source of consternation to cherokeesam.

Hotwire, I'm pretty sure chemicals being sprayed into a towns water supply wouldn't take long for it to spread. From a river, to an ocean, to soil, etc.

FYI to everyone....I spent 22 years in a municipal water treatment plant in a small town in Kentucky.....and the amount of required testing for a wide range of chemicals in both the source and finished product waters would surprise you. People know what chemicals are out there.

 

[Hotwire]

I understand that you may not have meant it as an insult...but to older people it is. I'm not sure how many younger people use it or even have a vague idea what it means....but to us of the older generations (and Cherokee fits this bill) it's a way to describe a backward town full of not bright and unintelligent people. Just remember that for future reference......also.....the fact that it's use was derived from the "more civilized' whites condescendingly describing the Podunk tribe of Native Americans in their area could also be a source of consternation to cherokeesam.

My apologies, Sam.

 

[Hotwire]

Perfectly valid point; but again, I don't pretend to know what kind of chemicals or metals are in these trails, only that we can see visible effects on cloud cover, climate change, and health risks.

Going back to the contrail Wiki that Doctor Evo posted, even that article describes studies showing the effects of contrails on climate change and global warming.

Look, I'm sure that a lot of the chemtrail "activists" believe this "conspiracy" is malicious and eee-vil and all that; I view it in a lot simpler terms. I think it's just that some scientist or other started out with what he thought was a good idea at the time (i.e., forming artificial cloud cover to lessen exposure to the sun, and therefore alleviate global warming) and it turned into a very bad idea that does more harm than good. See: nuclear power, cigarettes, better living through chemistry, etc.

All I'm personally hoping for is some actual investigation into the matter by people who are willing to view it objectively, instead of through the blinders of tinfoil-hatters and instant skeptics.

The problem that still comes up is, a scientist that thought the concept of spraying chemicals on such a large scale was a good idea, would have crunched more numbers than I did and seen how ineffective it would be to even attempt.

See, I got one of my numbers from a chart talking about fertilizing fields. This is done from a distance of less than 20 feet from the ground, even by crop dusters, and it still requires 100 gallons per acre. The higher up you go, the more the spray will dissipate and the less effective it will be. In order to compensate, you would need to spray more. Seeing as how I shot the logistics down based on the smallest volumes possible, the concept really just doesn't hold up.