Click it or ticket - Oh my gawd! They really DO care!

[WildcatNC]

I see some talking of "rules" and "laws" as if they are some heavenly mandate, or at least a "moral" mandate.

It is no such thing. You can't argue a "legal" = "moral" point and be taken seriously imo.

I could be off base as its hard to read tone over the internet but it seems like many are making that assumption.

Breaking the law is not "wrong", its illegal. Nor is something "illegal" inherently wrong.

I know, but still, people do need to be controlled.

 

[wiegeabo]

The funny thing is, I said i wear mine. So what are you on about?

You said you only wear yours to shut the alarm up, but you wouldn't because you're a skilled driver.

But it doesn't matter how skilled you are if someone slams into you while you're stopped.

I've been in two major, and one minor car accident in my life. All of the were the other person's fault. In the first major one, the guy wasn't paying attention, hit us while we were stopped, and almost pushed us into a crosswalk of kids crossing the street to school. In the second major one, the drunk driver plowed into us as we were turning, spinning our truck into another car. In the minor one, they just didn't quite stop fast enough while we were waiting at the light.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Only in America is wearing a seatbelt a violation of civil liberties.

Those of you in your 20's who think you're invulnerable and don't need seatbelts... you might regret that foolish attitude when you're in your 40's... or when you're in a wheel-chair. Seat-belts are meant to protect lives. Is that such a bad thing? Is it really a case of the government controlling you when they say "hey, take 2 seconds to put on this belt so you don't die if you get in an accident"? To me it just sounds like common sense. And like the other poster said, if your body flies out of your windshield and lands on the hood of my car, then your lack of a seatbelt suddenly becomes my problem too.

 

[chaseter]

Why doesn't the government regulate fatty and sugary foods? Why can someone eat McDonalds for every meal and die of diabetes or a heart attack but at age 40?

It is common sense to wear a seatbelt. It is common sense to eat healthy and exercise. You buckling your seatbelt or not only affects you. Someone eating a big mac for every meal only affects them. There is literally no difference.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Why doesn't the government regulate fatty and sugary foods? Why can someone eat McDonalds for every meal and die of diabetes or a heart attack but at age 40?

It is common sense to wear a seatbelt. It is common sense to eat healthy and exercise. You buckling your seatbelt or not only affects you. Someone eating a big mac for every meal only affects them. There is literally no difference.

But the government regulates drugs. On the flip-side of your argument, do you think heroin should be legal? It's personal choice after all, right?

 

[wiegeabo]

But the government regulates drugs. On the flip-side of your argument, do you think heroin should be legal? It's personal choice after all, right?

Why not? Nicotine is more addictive than heroin, and that's legal.

Actually, there are a lot of arguments for making drugs legal. Not the least of which is government and companies being able to regulate the production methods and dosages, thereby making them safer to use and less addicting (sort of like the difference between producing good alcohol versus moonshine). Hell, Norway, I believe it was, legalized cocaine several years back and they saw its usage drop by half.

 

[Handsome Rob]

But the government regulates drugs. On the flip-side of your argument, do you think heroin should be legal? It's personal choice after all, right?

Nice little side-step to avoid answering his questions . . .

And yes, heroin should be legal.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Eating fatty, sugary fast-foods gives people pleasure and provides low-income households with cheap food and jobs. What's the pleasure in refusing to put on a seatbelt? That's just being defiant for no apparent reason. Yes, I agree with seatbelt laws and laws mandating people wear helmets before they get on a motorcycle too. Perhaps you don't care about your life, but your friends and family do. Maybe the law should allow people to car-surf, because that's personal choice too? Should no safety standards at all be enforced? I hope you at least agree that drunk driving should be illegal.

Christ, it's so effin' fashionable to be a libertarian these days.

 

[WildcatNC]

Eating fatty, sugary fast-foods gives people pleasure and provides low-income households with cheap food

No its killing people in record numbers and a bigger financial drain on families and insurance companies than people who don't wear seatbelts by a factor of millions. The naive argument thats being made in favor of seatbelt fines would also apply to ANY activity or endeavor that people engage in that harms themselves and ends up costing them or their families a large cost in life or finances. You either believe people should be forced to do what is best for them all the way around or you haven't really thought it through and are defaulting on the "its the law so it must be right" mentality and don't even realize it.

What's the pleasure in refusing to put on a seatbelt? That's just being defiant for no apparent reason. Yes, I agree with seatbelt laws and laws mandating people wear helmets before they get on a motorcycle too. Perhaps you don't care about your life, but your friends and family do. Maybe the law should allow people to car-surf, because that's personal choice too? Should no safety standards at all be enforced? I hope you at least agree that drunk driving should be illegal.

Wth does drunk driving have to do with anything. Its a strawman and false equivalency. Your argument is that you shouldn't be able to drink at all, since it could harm you and damage your liver. Drunk driving harms others and no one is saying you should be able to harm others freely. THAT should be the purpose of the laws. Its to protect us from each other, NOT ourselves. Thinking like yours leads to the erosion of freedoms and human rights.

Other people should be able to dictate to you how to live your life and what activities to engage in based on their reasoning as to whats good for you or safer?

The government knows better than you how you should live your life?

People take a stand about these things not because wearing a seatbelt is such a big deal, but because you have to put your foot down to having your freedoms nickel and dimed away from you in small portions over time. Setting more and more precedents to be used to take more away later.

Because thats how government does it.

 

[SuperFerret]

Blah blah blah, don't act like you wouldn't be all thrilled out your ass if you had power.

 

[Handsome Rob]

Drunk driving harms others and no one is saying you should be able to harm others freely. THAT should be the purpose of the laws. Its to protect us from each other, NOT ourselves. Thinking like yours leads to the erosion of freedoms and human rights.

Other people should be able to dictate to you how to live your life and what activities to engage in based on their reasoning as to whats good for you or safer?

The government knows better than you how you should live your life?

People take a stand about these things not because wearing a seatbelt is such a big deal, but because you have to put your foot down to having your freedoms nickel and dimed away from you in small portions over time. Setting more and more precedents to be used to take more away later.

Because thats how government does it.

This. I had a response typed up, but it would have looked like I plagiarised you.

Christ, it's so effin' fashionable to be a libertarian these days.

I've been leaning libertarian for more than 10 years now, but I know what you mean. I remember 2008-9, when it was so fashionable to be an Obama supporter . . .

 

[SuperFerret]

Very few people are actually libertarian anyway. Most are just selfish and happen to fall in the category of "everyone else". Remember, dictatorships don't suck for the dictator.

 

[wiegeabo]

Blah blah blah, don't act like you wouldn't be all thrilled out your ass if you had power.

**** that noise. I wouldn't want the responsibility. Or the blame (which I would get, even if it wasn't my fault).

Very few people are actually libertarian anyway. Most are just selfish and happen to fall in the category of "everyone else". Remember, dictatorships don't suck for the dictator.

They suck for 'everyone else', which is sort of the point of fighting against dictatorial governments.

 

[Handsome Rob]

Very few people are actually libertarian anyway. Most are just selfish and happen to fall in the category of "everyone else". Remember, dictatorships don't suck for the dictator.

And that's why you don't give government too much power . . . you know, like passing laws mandating personal behavior "for your own good."

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Its great to see the government investing so much time telling me how much I should protect myself rather than going after criminals doing far worse.

So really what do you feel about these nanny laws? Am I the only one that thinks its a violation of civil rights?

If your body goes flying through the windshield, it could injure someone else. Just wear your ****ing seatbelt.

 

[chaseter]

If you weigh 400 lbs you can make a plane crash or make your car's axles bend to the left making you head into oncoming traffic.

 

[Duke]

seatbelts are mandatory to save lives. wear your seatbelt & save yourself some grief.

 

[Sentinel X]

What state are you in? Because here in California, they can't pull you over for not wearing one, but they can tack it onto the ticket if they pull you over for something else. At least, that's the way it used to be.

I live in Florida. The officer pull me over just to give me a seatbelt ticket. Im questioning if he had the right to do this as well

 

[The Squirrel]

If they have a click it or ticket law, then he had the right.

Edit: Oh wow, Google!

http://www.clickitfla.com/

Last year Florida passed a primary safety belt law that allows law enforcement officers to pull over motorists that fail to buckle up

 

[bullets]

I should probably start buckling up then . I didn't even know the law was passed

 

[Calvin]

If your body goes flying through the windshield, it could injure someone else. Just wear your ****ing seatbelt.

The debate should really end here. Not to mention, in the event that the car goes out of control, being strapped into the seat helps you regain control of the car, which would be much more difficult if you're whipping around the cabin. Guess what, not being able to regain control of your car affects others in the car, and most definitely others on the road. End of argument.

 

[Ponyboy]

So really what do you feel about these nanny laws? Am I the only one that thinks its a violation of civil rights?

Don't get behind the wheel if you aren't going to wear your seat belt. And don't let people ride in your car unless they wear theirs.

 

[WildcatNC]

The debate should really end here. Not to mention, in the event that the car goes out of control, being strapped into the seat helps you regain control of the car, which would be much more difficult if you're whipping around the cabin. Guess what, not being able to regain control of your car affects others in the car, and most definitely others on the road. End of argument.

Thats a ridiculous train of reasoning that could be used to legislate nearly anything by playing "connect the dots of causality". I could use the same logic to say it should be illegal for you to eat lasagna or many myriad things.


No one is responding to the other examples of how the fallacy would be applied either. You can't pick and choose and expect to stand on any steady ideological ground. Many of you haven't thought it through.

"It the law, so its okay"

I'm surprised at all the sheeple honestly.


And for those of you that are challenged in the reading comprehension area, NO ONE is saying that its not a good idea for your health to buckle up (no one smart anyway). It is a good idea and I always do. Legislating it so they can generate revenue is the gripe.

 

[Sentinel X]

Thats a ridiculous train of reasoning that could be used to legislate nearly anything by playing "connect the dots of causality". I could use the same logic to say it should be illegal for you to eat lasagna or many myriad things.


No one is responding to the other examples of how the fallacy would be applied either. You can't pick and choose and expect to stand on any steady ideological ground. Many of you haven't thought it through.

"It the law, so its okay"

I'm surprised at all the sheeple honestly.


And for those of you that are challenged in the reading comprehension area, NO ONE is saying that its not a good idea for your health to buckle up (no one smart anyway). It is a good idea and I always do. Legislating it so they can generate revenue is the gripe.

Bingo!

 

[Calvin]

Thats a ridiculous train of reasoning that could be used to legislate nearly anything by playing "connect the dots of causality". I could use the same logic to say it should be illegal for you to eat lasagna or many myriad things.


No one is responding to the other examples of how the fallacy would be applied either. You can't pick and choose and expect to stand on any steady ideological ground. Many of you haven't thought it through.

"It the law, so its okay"

I'm surprised at all the sheeple honestly.


And for those of you that are challenged in the reading comprehension area, NO ONE is saying that its not a good idea for your health to buckle up (no one smart anyway). It is a good idea and I always do. Legislating it so they can generate revenue is the gripe.

That line of reasoning is not a stretch at all, it's pretty damn direct.