Common Sense Wins One Battle!!

[bored]

But how many kosher meals does a Jew need to eat in one day? I imagine there are quite a few practicing Jews not in prison who adhere to the necessary rules of food preparation, but don't run to their nearest rabbi everytime they're ready to eat.

No, but a lot of kosher food is commercially available.

 

[bored]

[/B]


No one said you went to jail for eating pork! If my grammar is bad, your reading comprehension skills are worse.

Orly?

what ever the rules are in jail, those those are the rules!!! You got there by violated said religion in the first place.

If I can properly decipher your poor grasp of the English language, it sounds a lot like you are saying here that people go to jail for violating a rule of their religion. Hence my comment.

 

[jaguarr]

it just so happens that this is a case where the religious belief in question is one that Christians have no problem rolling their eyes at.

Actually, I'm agnostic and don't think ANY particular religious group should be catered to, whether it's in prison or in the rest of society. No, they shouldn't be prevented from believing what they want to, but in a place like prison where the cost of providing specialty meals to different groups puts a much larger burden on the tax payers than is already incurred by having to incarcerate these people I find a "one size fits all" solution acceptable. It's fair, giving an across the board meal to everyone, and saves the tax payers money. Maybe that one size fits all meal could be prepared in a way that makes all parties happy, or at least parts of it. But if these people were concerned about their religious beliefs then they wouldn't have done things like steal, rape, murder, assault or whatever else you can imagine that would be against the law to begin with because I can't think of too many widespread religions that condone those things at all. If they "found God" after they were imprisoned, good for them. I hope that they gain strength from their newfound faith to turn their lives around when they get out of prison. But prison is not about privilege, no matter what some people would like to believe. It's about paying your debt to society, taking your punishment, and reforming yourself to be a productive, contributing member of society rather than a burden on it. We give people in prison far too many amenities already, in my opinion. They don't need cable or magazine subscriptions or Playstations or tons of gym equipment OR a diverse menu of foods to choose from. They should be getting the bare necessities, not a bunch of "nice to haves" or luxuries. Food is a necessity, yes, and I'm sensitive to the fact that some religions have specific requirements around it. But if we start offering specially prepared meals to each and every interest group or religious faction in prison, it becomes horribly ineffective from a cost perspective and infinitely complicates the whole food supply and preparation chain that raises extra security risks, cries of "unfair" when a certain group doesn't get the special meal they want, and creates yet another bureaucratic nightmare for administrators.

jag

 

[Memphis Slim]

Orly?

Really.......

If I can properly decipher your poor grasp of the English language, it sounds a lot like you are saying here that people go to jail for violating a rule of their religion. Hence my comment.

An obvious typo (the extra "those"). But you knew what I was saying anyway. You just wanted to take a cheap shot.

 

[Mattchew]

But if these people were concerned about their religious beliefs then they wouldn't have done things like steal, rape, murder, assault or whatever else you can imagine that would be against the law to begin with because I can't think of too many widespread religions that condone those things at all.

I guess the fundamental difference in our opinions is above.

I don't buy into the idea that you have to be guilty of something to be in prison.

I also am SO thankful for the freedom of religion in America, because I don't have to buy into any of it, and I don't. The other side is, of course, that people have to the right to practice their religions.... not the parts of their religions that the rest of us can tolerate.

I think the funny thing about this thread is that in calling it "Common Sense Wins One Battle!!" is to say that the Jewish and Muslim religions are nonsense.

You can't allow people certain 'luxuries' (like the right to have a priest present at an execution) on the grounds of religion, and not others.

 

[Addendum]

Out of the total number of people in civilian prisons in the U.S., I think the number of innocent people incarcerated is fairly small

 

[jaguarr]

I guess the fundamental difference in our opinions is above.

I don't buy into the idea that you have to be guilty of something to be in prison.

Like Addendum said, the percentage of wrongly incarcerated people in U.S. prisons is probably relatively low.

I also am SO thankful for the freedom of religion in America, because I don't have to buy into any of it, and I don't. The other side is, of course, that people have to the right to practice their religions.... not the parts of their religions that the rest of us can tolerate.

I've never once said that we should oppress people's religions. But we're talking about convicts, here. Their rights are not the same as the free public's. They shouldn't be CATERED to where their religions are concerned (and that goes for the Christians, too). It's not saying they aren't able to believe whatever they want or worship however they would like. It's just saying that they won't get any special treatment for it. All prisoners should get treated equally when it comes to these things.

I think the funny thing about this thread is that in calling it "Common Sense Wins One Battle!!" is to say that the Jewish and Muslim religions are nonsense.

Yeah, I didn't make or name the thread and haven't said that I agree that it was properly named, but thanks for trying to tie me to it anyway.

[/quote]
You can't allow people certain 'luxuries' (like the right to have a priest present at an execution) on the grounds of religion, and not others.[/quote]

We aren't talking about executions, are we, though?

jag

 

[EdRyder]

Out of the total number of people in civilian prisons in the U.S., I think the number of innocent people incarcerated is fairly small

I would hope so.
But,how would you come to an actual number??


I do know that the 200th person to be exonerated by DNA evidence happened recently.
The 100th occured in Jan of 2002-13 years after the first exoneration.
Only took 5 years for that number to double.

 

[Addendum]

I would hope so.
But,how would you come to an actual number??

Darts

 

[Mattchew]

We aren't talking about executions, are we, though?

If you're gonna try and write off innocent people in jail, you don't get to ignore executions.

Our criminal system is flawed WELL beyond what we feed them, but its all inner connected.

 

[Mattchew]

I think the funny thing about this thread is that in calling it "Common Sense Wins One Battle!!" is to say that the Jewish and Muslim religions are nonsense.

i was speaking in generalities about the thread... not attributing this comment to jag in case anyone was confused .

 

[Mattchew]

for the record, I tend to run into jag in these heated threads, and while I rarely agree with him/her if memory serves, I have to say I appreciate level of his/her debate.

cheers to you for that, jag.

 

[jaguarr]

If you're gonna try and write off innocent people in jail, you don't get to ignore executions.

Our criminal system is flawed WELL beyond what we feed them, but its all inner connected.

Providing a priest or shaman or whatever religious figure you can imagine for last rites before an execution is A LOT different from the cost of providing specialty meals to every interest or religious group in the population. I'm saying it's an irrelevant point to bring into the discussion about the latter, not that I'm completely ignoring it across the board.

for the record, I tend to run into jag in these heated threads, and while I rarely agree with him/her if memory serves, I have to say I appreciate level of his/her debate.

cheers to you for that, jag.

jag

 

[Manic]

And it's not like the jewish prisoner will know whether the food was prepared properly anyway.

Granted, that would be one issue. If the vegan meals are prepared by the kitchen staff of the prison, then there's a chance the tools could be unclean. If the meals are pre-packaged, however, then there's a strong chance the vegan food distributor had no animal product anywhere near the veggies. The Muslims will be alright either way, but the Jews might be out of luck, depending. I think prisons can afford a second set of kitchen tools, though.

Did you not read the article? And you miss the point of what I was saying. The prison is deliberately doing something that prevents them from practicing a part of their religion, which some people take very seriously. I brought up what I did because I really don't believe Cellslim would be so smug about this if a change in policy didn't allow Christians to practice an aspect of their faith. Oh, and the meat on Fridays bit, we call that a "hypothetical situation".

So you're saying it's not the point, but the principle of it? That it doesn't matter if Jews and Muslims can fulfill their dietary needs through other options, but that an option specifically for them be available? This is where we reach our impasse. To me, it's okay as long as they can get a meal that won't completely offend them. The prison can't afford a meal consisting of chicken that was slaughtered a certain way, cooked a certain way, and certified by a holy man. So they'll be eating salads, potatoes, and beans.

Understand that whatever lack of respect you perceive from me comes from them being prisoners, not of different religions.

 

[Kritish]

I could care less

 

[Mattchew]

I could care less

amazing avatar!

 

[Kritish]

amazing avatar!

Thanks

 

[Memphis Slim]

Good Grief...........

what is wrong with you?

 

[Carcharodon]

It's rather ironic that the argument that the prison system is using is the very same argument used against religion in schools, and that Slim is supporting it.