Costumes! Discuss them Here!

[Doc Destruction]

Or the old JLA TV show?

 

[Doc Destruction]

 

[BoredGuy]

But it looked awful. If he wears it to hide his scar though i cant really argue against it, but as I recall he didnt wear that often anyway.

It Looks like you can see his scar under the little robin mask...
I think Snyder mentioned that he was gunna ditch the full mask

 

[Mr.Clay]

I'd first like to say that I do respect the opinions of those who are happy with the costuming decisions. The day they came out, I got way too emotionally involved and blew things out of proportion, and I was inconsiderate and rude and a straight up ass, and for that I apologize. I recognize this wasn't productive for anyone, especially not for me, and I want to make the effort to consider all sides. I do ask though for the same respect.

That being said, it's no secret that I'm not 100% sold on the costumes. Granted, I also needed more material to be released to warm up to the new Dark Knight suit, but I have come to recognize what they're trying to achieve aesthetically. There's plenty of time left before Watchmen debuts, and so I'll be more open.

That being said though, I do believe that the costume design choices could have been better. I'm a professional illustrator and concept artist myself, and so I'm naturally inclined to be critical of artistic choices, and especially so for something as near and dear to me as Watchmen. I do feel that the designs could have been much more successful. Hell, anything out these days could be better. But I see these arguments back and forth about what the costumes could be, and I see spandex being brought up as the only alternative to the costumes presented. This is simply not so. I do agree, a spandex outfit for ANYONE would look utterly insane in any movie. It would be terrible. But spandex is not the only material that could be employed into a superhero suit, but also neither is rubber or urethane.

What makes a suit believable, whatever the design, is texture. A great example is the Spider-Man suit. That outfit looks absolutely gorgeous on film, and it's nearly identical to the comic look. The design choices of that suit are peerless. The only difference is its texture. Without it, it would just be a body suit that looks like the comic incarnation, but the ability to suspend your disbelief would be strained. With the new Dark Knight suit, if you removed all the bits and pieces of the armor, you're left with the fabric undersuit which is mesh material. Now, bear with me here for a minute, but if you just had Batman running around in that fabric mesh suit sans armored bits, that would absolutely work as a direct comic-to-film design translation. A comic book artist is not going to render out every detail, and especially not for infinitesimally small detail, so of course in a comic things will look just plain flat color. But that mesh material could still be read like the comic Batman's gray outfit.

Nite Owl's costume from the comic is solid. It's simple and does it's job. But no one wants a direct translation of it in spandex, far from it. A spandex version would look atrocious. However, with the right texturing and right materials, a closer interpretation that would not be dividing the fan base IS possible. Thing is, as an artist and as someone who's grown up with Watchmen, I see things that were left out that really bug me because I know it could have been done better and much more faithful. Granted, it does have that kind of texture I'm talking about, but it straight up doesn't look like one man created it. The aesthetic choices in its design are far too evident that a team of designers crafted it. I know that technology saw a jump in the Watchmen world due to Dr. Manhattan, but especially if only one guy is working on it, it should retain some sort of a bit of imperfection to it. I'm not even talking about making it look silly or whatever, but it's just TOO perfect looking. Also, by 1985 that suit is 19 years old, so it should also have a worn kind of texture to it as well. If indeed Dan created a higher tech suit than what is shown in the novel, it should have little dings and scratches. That's why Boba Fett looks so damn awesome; it's clearly HIS. Again, this could also be a picture meant to be of Nite Owl from 1966, so there's still a chance for that worn look to pop up, and I'm hoping so. But I still do believe that this design is over-complicated. It could have been a simpler and more faithful interpretation while still retaining a believable texture from a multitude of materials other than just spandex.

It's going to take some time for the suits to grow on me, but I'm open to it and and I'm not going to let it ruin everything for me. But I guess all that I ask for is that you consider what I have to say. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes or blast anybody. I'm just saying that, like anything else, it could've been done better.

Thanks for your time

 

[The Guard]

'obvious' and 'absurdities' wow

You gotta love the democratic debate here. Yeah, the arguments against the costumes are obviously absurd. Oh, and the arguments for the costumes are logical, succint and OBVIOUSLY excellent.

Gimme a break dude...

Which arguments are you citing that are so logical and excellent? The arguments are generally awful and ridiculously biased and worse, in many cases uninformed. The best argument you've personally made is "It doesn't fit into the world of WATCHMEN". You didn't even give a reason. You want to be taken seriously, lay out your points and we'll all discuss them.

 

[Sandman138]

But it looked awful. If he wears it to hide his scar though i cant really argue against it, but as I recall he didnt wear that often anyway.

It made him look like a violent psychopath, which was the point.

 

[Sandman138]

I still say that's not the scar. If it is. It is incredibly tame compared to this:

I can't see Snyder passing up on that considering he's the guy who's biggest change to 300 was adding this:

 

[M.O.Steel]

I should have had on the end - I guess I forgot how badly sarcasm is read on a forum I don't think she is personally, but most people seem to think she is because she played a relatively stiff character in the Underworld movies - sorry for not getting that across

oh ok. but wasn't that part of teh character? I lalways liked her, as an actor and for her looks.

 

[CaptainGenerica]

I'd first like to say that I do respect the opinions of those who are happy with the costuming decisions. The day they came out, I got way too emotionally involved and blew things out of proportion, and I was inconsiderate and rude and a straight up ass, and for that I apologize. I recognize this wasn't productive for anyone, especially not for me, and I want to make the effort to consider all sides. I do ask though for the same respect.

That being said, it's no secret that I'm not 100% sold on the costumes. Granted, I also needed more material to be released to warm up to the new Dark Knight suit, but I have come to recognize what they're trying to achieve aesthetically. There's plenty of time left before Watchmen debuts, and so I'll be more open.

That being said though, I do believe that the costume design choices could have been better. I'm a professional illustrator and concept artist myself, and so I'm naturally inclined to be critical of artistic choices, and especially so for something as near and dear to me as Watchmen. I do feel that the designs could have been much more successful. Hell, anything out these days could be better. But I see these arguments back and forth about what the costumes could be, and I see spandex being brought up as the only alternative to the costumes presented. This is simply not so. I do agree, a spandex outfit for ANYONE would look utterly insane in any movie. It would be terrible. But spandex is not the only material that could be employed into a superhero suit, but also neither is rubber or urethane.

What makes a suit believable, whatever the design, is texture. A great example is the Spider-Man suit. That outfit looks absolutely gorgeous on film, and it's nearly identical to the comic look. The design choices of that suit are peerless. The only difference is its texture. Without it, it would just be a body suit that looks like the comic incarnation, but the ability to suspend your disbelief would be strained. With the new Dark Knight suit, if you removed all the bits and pieces of the armor, you're left with the fabric undersuit which is mesh material. Now, bear with me here for a minute, but if you just had Batman running around in that fabric mesh suit sans armored bits, that would absolutely work as a direct comic-to-film design translation. A comic book artist is not going to render out every detail, and especially not for infinitesimally small detail, so of course in a comic things will look just plain flat color. But that mesh material could still be read like the comic Batman's gray outfit.

Nite Owl's costume from the comic is solid. It's simple and does it's job. But no one wants a direct translation of it in spandex, far from it. A spandex version would look atrocious. However, with the right texturing and right materials, a closer interpretation that would not be dividing the fan base IS possible. Thing is, as an artist and as someone who's grown up with Watchmen, I see things that were left out that really bug me because I know it could have been done better and much more faithful. Granted, it does have that kind of texture I'm talking about, but it straight up doesn't look like one man created it. The aesthetic choices in its design are far too evident that a team of designers crafted it. I know that technology saw a jump in the Watchmen world due to Dr. Manhattan, but especially if only one guy is working on it, it should retain some sort of a bit of imperfection to it. I'm not even talking about making it look silly or whatever, but it's just TOO perfect looking. Also, by 1985 that suit is 19 years old, so it should also have a worn kind of texture to it as well. If indeed Dan created a higher tech suit than what is shown in the novel, it should have little dings and scratches. That's why Boba Fett looks so damn awesome; it's clearly HIS. Again, this could also be a picture meant to be of Nite Owl from 1966, so there's still a chance for that worn look to pop up, and I'm hoping so. But I still do believe that this design is over-complicated. It could have been a simpler and more faithful interpretation while still retaining a believable texture from a multitude of materials other than just spandex.

It's going to take some time for the suits to grow on me, but I'm open to it and and I'm not going to let it ruin everything for me. But I guess all that I ask for is that you consider what I have to say. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes or blast anybody. I'm just saying that, like anything else, it could've been done better.

Thanks for your time

Now THAT's a well-crafted argument that disagrees with my own opinion. I fully see where you are coming from.

 

[NEWAGE]

Which arguments are you citing that are so logical and excellent? The arguments are generally awful and ridiculously biased and worse, in many cases uninformed. The best argument you've personally made is "It doesn't fit into the world of WATCHMEN". You didn't even give a reason. You want to be taken seriously, lay out your points and we'll all discuss them.

Hungh? I was drawing a contrast with how some view any argument against the costumes as absurd and that the arguments in favour of the costumes are no absurd.

 

[NEWAGE]

Now THAT's a well-crafted argument that disagrees with my own opinion. I fully see where you are coming from.

The irony is that it takes a guy to start off his post like Ghandi, write an essay long thesis and then end it like Martin Luther King to get anyone here to say....ahhh...that disagrees with me but fair enough.

Hmm, now if only hypocrisy wasn't rife and a lot of the Snyder supporters commented the same way. Things here would really be grand.

 

[Doc Destruction]

No, he's being open minded, unlike you.

 

[NEWAGE]

No, he's being open minded, unlike you.

That response has NOTHING to do with the point I was making.

I am commenting on the level to which a guy has to go to get any respect around here for having a difference of opinion NOT the fact that he has an open mind (which if you read what he wrote he really doesn't, he just doesn't want to give up on the movie yet).

 

[Sasso]

Here's pretty much my thoughts on 'em:

The Comedian: Pretty much nailed him. They got the essence of his costume down and the things they did add (like a slight change of material texture on some clothing) enhanced the whole look. Wig looks funky, but I assume it'll look good on-screen.

Nite Owl II: Still have mixed feelings on this. While an exact adaption of his comic outfit would look too silly I think they made him look a bit too 'cool' as a lot of feedback on it said they made Nite Owl look badass and awesome, which is pretty much the opposite of what he was suppose to be. Cowl looks good but I really miss the cloak running up behind and attaching to the horns. Zipper on the front and shoulder/pec area is a nice touch and I do like the owl feather texture. As I said, while he does look silly (if he were in the real world) in a movie he still looks too 'cool' and I miss seeing that Dan was very out of shape. You can't tell in this suit.

Ozymandias: Ughhhh. Good Lord, are they just trying to tell you who the 'bad guy' is of the story (Although I personally think Adrian is the hero)? I like that they made his costume more Egyptian themed but all the black has to go. Perhaps not totally, but as-it-is it's complete overkill. I do somewhat like the newer suit design, like the 'Batman and Robin' inspired torso piece as I see what Snyder's going for.

Rorschach: Yeah, they got him perfectly down.

Silk Spectre: I really think the new costume works well with here. Since the original costume was out because I don't think that it would be physically possible to make in real life, this is a good replacement.

The lack of Doctor Manhattan makes me sad as he's my favorite in the book, I want to see if they throw clothes on him (for the entire movie). If they do, I'll be pissed.

 

[Mr.Clay]

The irony is that it takes a guy to start off his post like Ghandi, write an essay long thesis and then end it like Martin Luther King to get anyone here to say....ahhh...that disagrees with me but fair enough.

Hahahahahaha! Unfortunately though, that is what it took. So far most of the people who have voiced an opinion opposite to shining praise have been met with venomous opposition. I look at this board and I don't really see anyone really listening and taking to heart what those with a questioning viewpoint have to say. Instead of truly absorbing what they're bringing to the table, I see people dissecting everything they have to say point by point and shooting them down, calling their views "absurd" and whatnot. They deserve just as much respect as anyone else here. And then they're lambasted for calling people out on how one-sided these debates are.

Of anyone, I do agree with Newage the most. What he has to say is very relevant and it should be considered just as much as anyone else. If what someone says is the polar opposite to what you think, fine, but at least weigh what they have to say against your own opinions, and if you still feel the same way, well then you still feel the same way. No biggie, but don't tear them down for it.

Look at it this way; your thoughts and opinions are already valid because Watchmen is being made the way you want it to be made. It seems though that those who still have some reservations have to wave a white flag first to be listened to.

 

[Katsuro]

Nite Owl II: Still have mixed feelings on this. While an exact adaption of his comic outfit would look too silly I think they made him look a bit too 'cool' as a lot of feedback on it said they made Nite Owl look badass and awesome, which is pretty much the opposite of what he was suppose to be. Cowl looks good but I really miss the cloak running up behind and attaching to the horns. Zipper on the front and shoulder/pec area is a nice touch and I do like the owl feather texture. As I said, while he does look silly (if he were in the real world) in a movie he still looks too 'cool' and I miss seeing that Dan was very out of shape. You can't tell in this suit.

Ozymandias: Ughhhh. Good Lord, are they just trying to tell you who the 'bad guy' is of the story (Although I personally think Adrian is the hero)? I like that they made his costume more Egyptian themed but all the black has to go. Perhaps not totally, but as-it-is it's complete overkill. I do somewhat like the newer suit design, like the 'Batman and Robin' inspired torso piece as I see what Snyder's going for.

I dont understand people saying Nite Owl looks cool. Ypu really think that looks too cool? I dont. I think he looks ridiculous. He's in an armored owl costume for crying out loud.

You really think if you saw that guy walking around in the real world you wouldn't think he looks dumb? I mean, he may be in this wannabe tough guy pose in front of his hovercraft now, but imagine him at the Crimebusters meeting. Imagine the contrast of him hanging out with the other heroes, and tell me he wont look just as silly as he's supposed to look.

As for Ozy, he only looks villainous because of the color filtering on the photo. Even worse than the people who thik Nite Owl looks cool are the people who somehow cant tell that the photo of Ozy is color filtered. Seriously, look at it. That picture's a step away from being black and white. The costume in the movie will most certainly be gold and purple.

 

[Sasso]

I dont understand people saying Nite Owl looks cool. Ypu really think that looks too cool? I dont. I think he looks ridiculous. He's in an armored owl costume for crying out loud.

You really think if you saw that guy walking around in the real world you wouldn't think he looks dumb? I mean, he may be in this wannabe tough guy pose in front of his hovercraft now, but imagine him at the Crimebusters meeting. Imagine the contrast of him hanging out with the other heroes, and tell me he wont look just as silly as he's supposed to look.

As for Ozy, he only looks villainous because of the color filtering on the photo. Even worse than the people who thik Nite Owl looks cool are the people who somehow cant tell that the photo of Ozy is color filtered. Seriously, look at it. That picture's a step away from being black and white. The costume in the movie will most certainly be gold and purple.

Reread my post, lol. I stated that in the real world he would look ridiculous but within the context of a movie he looks 'cool' (I use that loosely, because as you said, he's a grown man dressed up like an owl) Same applys for Batman from BB, he looked cool in the movie but would look doofy in the real world.

Also, I really didn't even realize how much color altering was done to Ozy. Once I took a good look at his face I figured it, seeing as the guy's face is almost completely desaturated.

 

[Wolfman]

You know, Nite Owl's and Ozymandias's costumes are really starting to grow out of me... I wasn't happy with Ozymandias's costume the begin with, but I was somewhat satisfied with Nite Owl. But no more. Looking at the comic and then the pictures, it's starting to irritate me, that the costumes aren't more faithful. Nite Owl needs his round goggles and the little headcape. They are big part of his visual look. And Ozymandiaz, well I propably don't even have to say anything about that.

 

[Doc Destruction]

he just doesn't want to give up on the movie yet).

As in, he's willing to be open minded. Unlike you.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Noir]

Thread were merged, lets try to keep from making more threads about the costumes, this will be the costume discussion thread from now on in.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Thank God.

 

[cerealkiller182]

It made him look like a violent psychopath, which was the point.

the scar, the gun, his wide-eyes and the big grin made him look like a violent psyhopath. The mask made him look like he wanted to get whiped

 

[Noir]

the scar, the gun, his wide-eyes and the big grin made him look like a violent psyhopath. The mask made him look like he wanted to get whiped

What can I say.. He's been a very very bad Comedian.

 

[The Guard]

Hungh? I was drawing a contrast with how some view any argument against the costumes as absurd and that the arguments in favour of the costumes are no absurd.

Ohhh. Sorry.

I'll agree that Veidt looks a bit villanous there. Let's face it, though...today, people are going to figure it out anyway. The "Hero turning out to be the villain" thing has been done a lot since WATCHMEN came out. What Veidt DOES and the fact that he accomplishes it is more shocking than the relatively tame "twist" that he turns out to be the villain.

 

[Headless Knight]

it straight up doesn't look like one man created it. The aesthetic choices in its design are far too evident that a team of designers crafted it. I know that technology saw a jump in the Watchmen world due to Dr. Manhattan, but especially if only one guy is working on it, it should retain some sort of a bit of imperfection to it. I'm not even talking about making it look silly or whatever, but it's just TOO perfect looking. Also, by 1985 that suit is 19 years old, so it should also have a worn kind of texture to it as well. If indeed Dan created a higher tech suit than what is shown in the novel, it should have little dings and scratches.

Yeah, you're right. It should have a more home-made feel to it.

But then people (and by "people" I mean "people who haven't read Watchmen") would be like "eeew, it looks totally home-made, what's up with that".

And that's the problem, really. They need to get people to see the movie.

It would be nice if this was just the "promo suit", made cool to attract average viewers, whereas in the movie they would use the "real suit", which would reflect the original better; this would actually work, but it would be probably too expensive (and smart) for them.