Transformers Could they just be pulling our legs?

[Destructicus]

I've said this in a few posts on some threads. If there has been a thread like this one, I haven't seen it, but doesn't anyone think all the changes being done to the film seem a little far fetched and a little out there. Even though all the **** they keep pouring down our throats keeps pissing us off and makes us ***** about it constantly, couldn't it all be a lie. I dont think they would make this many changes to a film, just because they can. I think that they could be possibly lieing, look at Don Murphy's posts back to the fans. The posts Don gives back are always screwed up. This is a franchise adored by to many people to be butchered in this way. In the end I think the film might be just the way we wanted it. Bay is going to be there opening night saying, "if we told you what you wanted to hear, you wouldn't of *****ed about the movie so much to the point to where you had to see this movie." Think about it, the more we ***** about the film, the more people who have never heard of Transformers see what we say and are buying up all the Transformers products trying to see why the hell we are all mad, then more money will be made by hasbro and company and then more people will say, "Hey this movie is a big deal we have to go see what the controversy is." My opinion, but I think they have pulled the wool over our eyes into thinking this movie, no, our movie will be somthing its not.

 

[zer00]

fanboy wishing is a wonderful thing,it's so cute

 

[DorkyFresh]

changes have been made to Transformers since generation 2...change is inevitable. the sooner you accept this the sooner you'll be able to enjoy the movie for being what it is instead of not liking it for it not being what you want it to be.

 

[WalkingDead]

changes have been made to Transformers since generation 2...change is inevitable. the sooner you accept this the sooner you'll be able to enjoy the movie for being what it is instead of not liking it for it not being what you want it to be.

Thank you for saying that...Cause it's true.
Changes have been made to Transformers since 1990. There have even been things that have retconned G1 over the years, so I mean, change has to happen.


Big Transfans, at the very most, will make up around 75,000-100,000 people that will see the movie. That's one thing Transfans have to remember, we're a small demographic, but we can still get our nods, wanks, and cool factors from the movie.

Sure there will be millions of people who will see it cause of a faint memory of Transformers from their childhood, but most won't be upset over changes. Cause let's face it, they've not really had lots of intense thoughts on TF's in years. In fact, I'm willing to bet most of those Gen-X'ers who remember Transformers in their limited but mindful memories will barely remember more than 1-5 character from all of Transformers. Gen-Xers with kids will be the majority of who sees and pushes this movie to be successful. Their kids are the main reasons why to this day they even remember TF's with more than a fleeting random thought/flashback.

Because their kids are making Transformers outsale even G.I.Joe, Star Wars, and Marvel toys right now (this past year). Kids will be a huge selling point to this film. While the Gen-Xers that people such as CFlash talk about (no disrespect) will have memories of TF's and maybe even a few names that they recognize, they will mainly go for the simple fact their kids are once again enthralled by transforming robots waging war on Earth as Autobots and Decepticons. Most Gen-Xers aren't going to be overly concerned with the look of the TF's, the color schemes the TF's have, nor the Alternate Modes...AS LONG AS THE MOVIE IS GOOD ON IT'S OWN.


And that's the big issue for most movie-goers...will the movie going to stand on it's own legs and work as a film? If it does, no matter what changes happen, the movie will push itself into success via the kids, the Gen-Xers with kids, and the overall Concept. The Concept alone will put people's butts in the seats. Let's just hope the movie can stand on it's own and just be a solid actiony sci-fi flick that makes you think, "That was a good movie."

 

[zer00]

well no ****. But there is a fine line. And I don't expect don Murphy and Michael Bay to even see it.

 

[WalkingDead]

well no ****. But there is a fine line. And I don't expect don Murphy and Michael Bay to even see it.

I'm not sure if that was in response to what I said, but I know that to many there is a fine line of changes that will be acceptable. It is always that way with every fan-based movie. X-Men, Spidey, Supes, Batman, Transformers, Star Wars, etc...
Yet, you have to understand and expect many things to be different. Some things just can't work out cinematically in several ways, some things are too unintelligent or silly to use, and sometimes people want to leave their own spin/mark on a film, for good or bad.



And no...I don't think all that stuff that has been chaged from G1/G2 is bull****. I think 90% of the changes are real/true.

 

[CFlash]

Thank you for saying that...Cause it's true.
Changes have been made to Transformers since 1990. There have even been things that have retconned G1 over the years, so I mean, change has to happen.


Big Transfans, at the very most, will make up around 75,000-100,000 people that will see the movie. That's one thing Transfans have to remember, we're a small demographic, but we can still get our nods, wanks, and cool factors from the movie.

Sure there will be millions of people who will see it cause of a faint memory of Transformers from their childhood, but most won't be upset over changes. Cause let's face it, they've not really had lots of intense thoughts on TF's in years. In fact, I'm willing to bet most of those Gen-X'ers who remember Transformers in their limited but mindful memories will barely remember more than 1-5 character from all of Transformers. Gen-Xers with kids will be the majority of who sees and pushes this movie to be successful. Their kids are the main reasons why to this day they even remember TF's with more than a fleeting random thought/flashback.

Because their kids are making Transformers outsale even G.I.Joe, Star Wars, and Marvel toys right now (this past year). Kids will be a huge selling point to this film. While the Gen-Xers that people such as CFlash talk about will have memories of TF's and maybe even a few names that they recognize, they will mainly go for the simple fact their kids are once again enthralled by transforming robots waging war on Earth as Autobots and Decepticons. Most Gen-Xers aren't going to be overly concerned with the look of the TF's, the color schemes the TF's have, nor the Alternate Modes...AS LONG AS THE MOVIE IS GOOD ON IT'S OWN.

I don't know one kid that's into TF nowadays.... but if you say so. I don't know. Is there a TF cartoon and comic out too?

In any case, you're probably mostly right. I think you're right to the extent that this movie will be moderately successful. But those same Gen-X'ers might also stifle this movie and keep it from becoming a "smash hit." Much the same way that the generations that grew up watching Godzilla kept Godzilla 98 from being am *over-the-top blockbuster*.

How?

Well, we all watched it once. Sure! But, then that was it! No 2nd viewing with girlfriends. No 2nd viewing with kids (unless they REALLY wanted to see it). Godzilla made a lot of money.... but it didn't even come close to meeting the studio's expectations (that's a fact) and it did not spark a "toy craze" or merchandising craze the way they were hoping (toy stores were throwing out boxes of Godzilla toys by the truckloads).

Godzilla had at least 3 generations (if not more) of "kids that grew up on it" (including Gen-X'ers) and it bombed (in critical as well as studio expectation terms).

I'm not a purist. I believe in change. But, I also believe in ICONS. I probably would have liked Godzilla98 five times as much if he did one thing: breath nuke fire! Alas, Emmeric thought that was "stupid" and unbelievable.

I can only point to Batman 89 as a movie that did everything right (even if I think the plot itself was lame).... appease the 80's Dark Knight'ers, 60's Campy Detective, and the purist Bob Kaner's). And it did it by keeping all the iconic things that people associated with Batman (such as the yellow insignia vs the subtle black one in Begins).

It's all about ICONS. And, if this movie gets it right, it will be a success. So far, it doesn't even seem to be trying.

Look at this way and do the math:
-Batman 89 cost 35 million to make. It grossed 411 million.
-Batman Begins cost 150 million to make. It grossed 371 million.

Not only are those numbers sad on the face of it.... but when you consider that Batman Begins played TWICE as many theaters and tickets cost almost twice as much nowadays, the figures become APPALLING.

 

[WalkingDead]

I don't know one kid that's into TF nowadays.... but if you say so. I don't know. Is there a TF cartoon and comic out too?

In any case, you're probably mostly right. I think you're right to the extent that this movie will be moderately successful. But those same Gen-X'ers might also stifle this movie and keep it from becoming a "smash hit." Much the same way that the generations that grew up watching Godzilla kept Godzilla 98 from being am *over-the-top blockbuster*.

How?

Well, we all watched it once. Sure! But, then that was it! No 2nd viewing with girlfriends. No 2nd viewing with kids (unless they REALLY wanted to see it). Godzilla made a lot of money.... but it didn't even come close to meeting the studio's expectations (that's a fact) and it did not spark a "toy craze" or merchandising craze the way they were hoping (toy stores were throwing out boxes of Godzilla toys by the truckloads).

Godzilla had at least 3 generations (if not more) of "kids that grew up on it" (including Gen-X'ers) and it bombed (in critical as well as studio expectation terms).

I'm not a purist. I believe in change. But, I also believe in ICONS.
I can only point to Batman 89 as a movie that did everything right (even if I think the plot itself was lame).... appease the 80's Dark Knight'ers, 60's Campy Detective, and the purist Bob Kaner's). And it did it by keeping all the iconic things that people associated with Batman (such as the yellow insignia vs the subtle black one in Begins).

It's all about ICONS. And, if this movie gets it right, it will be a success. So far, it doesn't even seem to be trying.

There are multiple TF comics...G1, G1 Re-Dux, Beast Wars, and a 1800's What If comic all being published now. There is a new TF Cartoon literally almost every two years. And yes TF's are out-selling Star Wars and G.I.Joe, as Hasbro published this past Quarter. Hasbro owns the toy rights to all those properties.

I'm not going to disagree with you on the ICONS part, cause I agree 100% with you. But that's the thing...all the TF's can still be the characters everyone loves, despite certain alt. mode changes or overall shape/size changes. Bumblebee, Prime, Megatron, and Starscream (the four most recognizable TF's) can still be their respective characters that everyone remembers and loves. It's all just a matter of accepting certain changes and being open to thsoe changes while, yet still seeing that they kept the characters that everyone loves the same in a lot of ways.

As you said...Just like Batman. The suit was changed in lots of ways (hell the Bat Symbol on the suit's chest isn't even the symbol used on the posters/t-shirts or the one that every recognizes), the Batmobile is changed, and Joker's origin was totally changed completely...Yet that movie hit home with about everything. And I think the TF movie has a great chance to do so with many people.


And that's also where I think you're wrong CFlash.
The TF movie might not being trying as you think, but I think that is wrong. We've heard NOTHING about the TF characters, overall. We've heard a rumor that Bumblebee might be mute, which might stick or might not, we don't know yet. We've heard that Starscream had two lines, which the writer confirmed to be changed to give SS more lines. The writers also confirmed that Megatron has a more philosophical reason for taking his stance than just being some evil villain. It's been confirmed the TF Sound Effect will be in the movie. It's been confirmed Prime is compassionate and wants to protect humans. There are a lot of ICONIC things still left in this movie so far.

 

[CFlash]

There are multiple TF comics...G1, G1 Re-Dux, Beast Wars, and a 1800's What If comic all being published now. There is a new TF Cartoon literally almost every two years. And yes TF's are out-selling Star Wars and G.I.Joe, as Hasbro published this past Quarter. Hasbro owns the toy rights to all those properties.

I'm not going to disagree with you on the ICONS part, cause I agree 100% with you. But that's the thing...all the TF's can still be the characters everyone loves, despite certain alt. mode changes or overall shape/size changes. Bumblebee, Prime, Megatron, and Starscream (the four most recognizable TF's) can still be their respective characters that everyone remembers and loves. It's all just a matter of accepting certain changes and being open to thsoe changes while, yet still seeing that they kept the characters that everyone loves the same in a lot of ways.

As you said...Just like Batman. The suit was changed in lots of ways (hell the Bat Symbol on the suit's chest isn't even the symbol used on the posters/t-shirts or the one that every recognizes), the Batmobile is changed, and Joker's origin was totally changed completely...Yet that movie hit home with about everything.

You're right again.
But, I can only say this: I know there are *current* TF fans (uber-fans and newbie-armada-cybertron-fans alike). But Transformers in the 80's was a cultural phenomenum (though admittedly short-lived-- cuz TMNT completely knocked it to oblivion at some point).

An example: my fiance (also Gen-Xer) knows all about TF... as an innocent bystander not a fan. She couldn't care less about this movie sans Bumblebee (she rolled her eyes at the Camaro thing). I'll go see this movie with my friends. Normally, (like for Spider-Man, X-Men etc) I'll go see it AGAIN with her. But, I highly doubt she'll ask me to. And if this movie doesn't strike a chord with me... I won't drag her to go see it either (nor my daughter.... who'd probably rather go see some Pixar movie anyway).

That's all I'm saying. "Competent Hit" vs "Smash Hit."
I think TF will be competent. It won't be Batman (nor Spider-Man).

 

[CFlash]

It's been confirmed the TF Sound Effect will be in the movie.

Hey wait. I just caught that line. You just made my day, WalkingDead.
(where was it confirmed... how?).

 

[WalkingDead]

Hey wait. I just caught that line. You just made my day, WalkingDead.
(where was it confirmed... how?).

I know you hate him...BUT...
Don Murphy confirmed it along with one of the writers, and I believe the other producer, Desanto (if i remember correctly) did as well.

Supposedly they are toying with it to make it more realistically-mechanical...like grinding gears and shifting panels, but that it would be the same SFX essentially.


Until it gets closer to editing...it might turn out to be BS, but I don't think so. Because as you say THAT SOUND IS ICONIC. Most of the ICONIC semi-confirmed and confirmed things have not ever really been questioned once it got out that they were "in the movie as of now". Will this turn out to be bull****? It's very possible, but I don't think so.

 

[CFlash]

I know you hate him...BUT...
Don Murphy confirmed it along with one of the writers, and I believe the other producer, Desanto (if i remember correctly) did as well.

Supposedly they are toying with it to make it more realistically-mechanical...like grinding gears and shifting panels, but that it would be the same SFX essentially.

That's awesome.

 

[WalkingDead]

You're right again.
But, I can only say this: I know there are *current* TF fans (uber-fans and newbie-armada-cybertron-fans alike). But Transformers in the 80's was a cultural phenomenum (though admittedly short-lived-- cuz TMNT completely knocked it to oblivion at some point).

That's all I'm saying. "Competent Hit" vs "Smash Hit."
I think TF will be competent. It won't be Batman (nor Spider-Man).

Yeah, in 1988 TMNT came through and wiped the floor with most other things...TF's, G.I.Joe, and others.


I don't know what TF's will be...Smash Hit or Hit or even a Bomb. The movie so far is rumored to have a budget of $200-210 million (including marketing). Can they make all that back? I think so and technically if the movie makes back all it's budget in theatres, then it is considered by studio standards to be a True Hit.

Can the movie blow it all away and be a Smash Hit? Maybe. I honestly think that it will come out with HUGE NUMBERS for week one, hitting around $120-150 million. Then I think it will drop off just like the X-Men Movies did...X2 and X3 dropped off significantly hard on second and third weeks, but still both of those movies dominated and made back the money. And then X2 made tons of money on DVD, raking in more profits as well. Just like I expect TF's DVD to do.

Can it Bomb? Certainly, everything has potential to bomb. Hulk technically bombed, even though it was only $3 million short of being a Studio Hit. So yeah, I think TF's has the potential to Bomb Out.

 

[CFlash]

Yeah, in 1988 TMNT came through and wiped the floor with most other things...TF's, G.I.Joe, and others.


I don't know what TF's will be...Smash Hit or Hit or even a Bomb. The movie so far is rumored to have a budget of $200-210 million (including marketing). Can they make all that back? I think so and technically if the movie makes back all it's budget in theatres, then it is considered by studio standards to be a True Hit.

Can the movie blow it all away and be a Smash Hit? Maybe. I honestly think that it will come out with HUGE NUMBERS for week one, hitting around $120-150 million. Then I think it will drop off just like the X-Men Movies did...X2 and X3 dropped off significantly hard on second and third weeks, but still both of those movies dominated and made back the money. And then X2 made tons of money on DVD, raking in more profits as well. Just like I expect TF's DVD to do.

Can it Bomb? Certainly, everything has potential to bomb. Hulk technically bombed, even though it was only $3 million short of being a Studio Hit. So yeah, I think TF's has the potential to Bomb Out.

See, like Godzilla, the Hulk is a movie that didn't recognize "icons." I know a lot of comic fans that liked that movie. But, all that movie had to do to make folks like me happy (lapsed fans) was to include the TV shows piano theme. Because to a LARGER demographic, the TV show *was* Hulk. Just like I think to a larger demographic, TF was the 80's cartoon.

Again, I'm not a G1 purist. I just think certain "iconic" things should be adapted faithfully. Adapted yes.... but adapted in a faithful way (yes, I think a hot-rod BB violates that in a big way).

 

[xwolverine2]

i trust steven spielberg.

period.

 

[ragdus]

the admins need to put a ban on the word Godzilla in the Transformers forums.

 

[CFlash]

the admins need to put a ban on the word Godzilla in the Transformers forums.

Why? Explain.

 

[xwolverine2]

the admins need to put a ban on the word Godzilla in the Transformers forums.

i agree....


but why?

 

[Destructicus]

To clarify I never said I didn't like changes. I said that this is my opinion that they could be pulling our legs. If everything I said doesn't happen I'll be fine, hell I'm okay with most of the changes to the film right now. I'm okay with the infiltration comic, I'm okay with Megatron supposedly to be a jet, I'm okay with Bumblebee being a camero, hell I was moderatly okay with Soundwave being 4 and a half foot tall. I dont care about the changes, I'm just stating that what I'm saying might be whats going on. Who the hell are you DorkyFresh to say I cant except change. I enjoyed Transformers Armada and even thought it did suck that Optimus Prime was a firetruck, RID was a good cartoon show.