Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Part 2

[Aesop Rocks]

Oh my GAWD. This is making me so ANGRUS

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

He was already challenging Caesar's authority even early on in the film, and became increasingly critical of his leadership as time went on.

But again the term "shoe horned" is nonsense as the conflict with Koba wasn't tangential, it was a primary part of the story.

Heretic thinks this should've been a human/ape conflict only.

That the ape-against-ape stuff should've been saved for part 3.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

Which is dumb, to me.

 

[Heretic]

Meanwhile, everyone here is talking about how they can't wait for the ape vs ape battle in part 3...even suggesting that Koba should return and gather an army loyal to him. What is the freaking point of that?? WE JUST SAW THAT STORY!!!

Instead, yeah...I feel that the bulk of the film was humans encroaching on the natives...some trusting...some hating them...and the natural (though predictable, but predictable doesnt always mean bad) next step would be for humans to spark the war...have the battle at that tower...and end the movie with Koba saying "I told you so," Caesar losing influence, and the US military on their way to demolish them. That way, the next film could be exactly what you guys want it to be, without telling the same story over again.

 

[Heretic]

By the way, the point of all of this is to show that humans basically destroyed themselves. By changing course to a tyrannical monkey who started the war because he suddenly wanted to rule the world with an iron fist (a far different goal than merely hating humans) they have made the natives the villains and made humans the heroes, who SHOULD have wiped out the monkeys while they had a chance. This movie supports the idea that genocide is good because if you dont kill the natives, they'll kill you.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I thought the message was "a fragile and peaceful coexistence is possible but the hate-mongers screw it up for everybody".

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

Did anyone stay after the credits? t:

Spoiler

I can't wait to see Koba come back if the audio means he's alive.

 

[Bruce Malone]

It was probably just a teaser for teaser's sake, I don't think he'll be back and frankly I don't see any other purpose to have him back? He was fine as a villain but he wasn't on the level of the joker or something where you'd like to see him for multiple films?

The only twist i could see somehow work, is if he teams up with a human villain somehow but that could end up being cheesy.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Yeah a human/Koba team up could be corny if executed poorly but if the humans chained Koba and forced him to be a tracker and interpreter it would show the repercussions and extent of Koba's betrayal. Plus it would make the humans the clear antagonist and remind us why their reign had to end.

 

[Bruce Malone]

It's been a while since I saw the first Planet of the Apes ('68) but aren't we for the most part supposed to sympathize with the Humans and see most but not all apes as the evil oppressors?

If the creators of the film want to somehow set a path to that film as they've hinted, I don't see how it makes sense to have the humans as the antagonists throughout this series. At some point doesn't it have to turn around?

 

[Quasimod0]

Koba had a satisfying finale. I think bringing him back would be unnecessary.

 

[Quasimod0]

It's been a while since I saw the first Planet of the Apes ('68) but aren't we for the most part supposed to sympathize with the Humans and see most but not all apes as the evil oppressors?

If the creators of the film want to somehow set a path to that film as they've hinted, I don't see how it makes sense to have the humans as the antagonists throughout this series. At some point doesn't it have to turn around?

Well in this last film, the humans were just trying to survive. And it was an ape that sparked the battles. I don't think either side was really an antagonist. Both sides were wary of one another.

Even if the next film has the human army vs Caesar's apes, the humans still wouldn't necessarily be the villains. They were just retaliating after their people were attacked.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It's been a while since I saw the first Planet of the Apes ('68) but aren't we for the most part supposed to sympathize with the Humans and see most but not all apes as the evil oppressors?

If the creators of the film want to somehow set a path to that film as they've hinted, I don't see how it makes sense to have the humans as the antagonists throughout this series. At some point doesn't it have to turn around?

PotA (68) hinted that man was to blame for his own destruction. As have some of the sequels.

 

[Marvolo]

How many of yall started to panic when

Spoiler

Keri Russell found Caesar shot in the woods? He was lying so still and his eyes were open and not moving and I was trying to remember if the trailers showed Caesar in the final tower battle and I couldnt remember. Then when he moved his eyes...Ive never been so happy to see a character take a breath in my life. In about two seconds I experienced rage, sadness, and then joy.

This has got to be one of the most tense films I have ever seen. I get tense while watching horror films, but for a straight up drama or action film to make me this tense for two hours straight is a very rare thing.

 

[Golgo-13]

It's been a while since I saw the first Planet of the Apes ('68) but aren't we for the most part supposed to sympathize with the Humans and see most but not all apes as the evil oppressors?

If the creators of the film want to somehow set a path to that film as they've hinted, I don't see how it makes sense to have the humans as the antagonists throughout this series. At some point doesn't it have to turn around?

I think at some point we would need to have a human character that the audience really likes and connects with like they have with Caesar.

 

[DarkKnight88]

PotA (68) hinted that man was to blame for his own destruction. As have some of the sequels.

Yes, this!

Remember "You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you! Damn you all to hell!"

Mankind has always been the ultimate "villain" in the series.

 

[addison81]

Saw this again. I Love this film. Never would of guessed 3 years ago that Apes would be my favorite franchise, but Rise got me into the old films as well. On this viewing I found the ending much more haunting. Can't see another film topping this for me this year.

 

[SuperBatman]

Did anyone stay after the credits? t:

Spoiler

I can't wait to see Koba come back if the audio means he's alive.

Spoiler

The Audio could mean anything the fact that we didn't see Koba coming out a rumble makes people spectable to debate whether or not he's alive.

 

[DA_Champion]

damn, there was an after the credits scene?

 

[Liam_H]

More like after credits audio.

 

[Quasimod0]

Just some audio

 

[Heretic]

Yes, this!

Remember "You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you! Damn you all to hell!"

Mankind has always been the ultimate "villain" in the series.

EXACTLY! Mankind are the villains. They betrayed that in this film by making Koba start the war. Caesar even says that apes started the war and humans won't forgive that or something. It should have been the HUMANS who started the war. This film seemed to be leading that way...showing that some humans have bigotry against the apes, while others just see them as a lower life form with no claim to the land they live on. Then, Koba decides he wants to rule the world like Ming The Merciless or somebody, and the entire concept is tossed aside. The next film could have had a #TeamKoba and #TeamCaesar debate as people argue which side is in the right...Caesar who seeks peace with those who wish to commit genocide, or Koba who wants to conquer and enslave those who once conquered and enslaved his kind. At what point do the victims become the monsters? But as it stands...the apes started the war because of one apes insane lust for personal power.

 

[Marvolo]

Koba's resentment of humans and his desire to wipe them out is a result of humans torturing him for years. He didnt want power. He wanted to kill the humans, and he began to resent Caesar for helping them. Can you blame him? He was tortured for years so he was never going to trust them, and then he finds out they are stockpiling wespons...yeah it was only ever going to go one way after that. They gave him every reason not to trust them. Koba's decisions, maddening as they are, were inevitable.

I know this is fiction, but a real fact of life and war is that all sides have some blame. Wars dont just start cause an evil side attacks a good side or A attackd B. They can start because of poor communication and a lack of trust. Thats what happened in Dawn.

 

[DA_Champion]

Mankind can still be even more villainous. As of the end of Dawn, the apes are nowhere close to having taken over the world.

 

[Heretic]

Koba's resentment of humans and his desire to wipe them out is a result of humans torturing him for years. He didnt want power. He wanted to kill the humans, and he began to resent Caesar for helping them. When he came to the conclusion that Caesar was capitulating too much and damaging the apes future he took action. So humans still caused this war. They tortured Koba and gave him every reason not to trust them. Then they furthered this by stockpiling weapons. Koba's decisions, maddening as they are, were inevitable.

Your coming at this a bit too narrowly and ignoring the major fact that both films and the events are a result of human actions and injustices done to the apes. Humans still caused the war.

Caesar blames the apes for starting the war.

Koba wanted to kill the humans because of how they treated him...and he wanted to kill or imprison any ape who disagreed with him, just like any other tyrant. Caesar even said that Koba didn't do this to help the apes, but to help himself. Koba not only wanted to wipe out the humans...he wanted to rule the apes. That was an abrupt shift in what was otherwise good character development.