dceu DOES needs to be fixed, But copying Marvel won't help

[Frodo]

Really ? If the MCU can make hugely successful and enjoyable films about characters like Ant man and Dr Strange well, I think it seems a bit like being in denial and somewhat ridiculous to deny that the MCU formula works, and works really well.

If a Superman film came out which had a similar tone to Ragnarok, and made Supes likeable and at the same time put him through some rough times, but still was overall fun ( and got great reviews and made a ton of cash) is anyone really going to complain "because it's too much like the MCU!"

Well, to fair, the MCU isn't doing something so new and radical hasn't been done before. They're making great movies and great characters which the audience connects with. That's its basically it really.

Sure, they founded it on a shared universe of films, but universal and Hammer films basically did that in the 30s and 60s with their monster films.

The MCU succeeds because the films are good . The extended universe stuff is gravy for the GA, not the main thing.

I think the question is what people consider, "copying Marvel" is. As far as tone of the film goes, I think it depends on the character really.

Marvel films tend have a similar tone with all of their characters, but DC films, imo should have the flexiability of telling something funny and upbeat like Shazam and something more somber and serious like The Batman.

I also don't think all the DC films should"lead to something" or to a "Team up film" but instead be a collection of individual stories and tales from that shared universe with occasional crossover events thrown in.

Marvel films are more like a tv series with each season, i.e phase, driving toward a finale or cliffhanger. It works well for them, but I think DC should be less uniform, and the filmakers should have much more creative freedom to tell their own stories without trying to connect it to some event film several years down the road.

If WB should emulate anything from Marvel, its to respect the characters and make quality films which connect with audiences.

 

[2kt09]

Well, to be fair, the MCU isn't doing something so new and radical hasn't been done before. They're making great movies and great characters which the audience connects with. That's basically it really.

Sure, they founded it on a shared universe of films, but universal and Hammer films basically did that in the 30s and 60s with their monster films.

I agree with you on the filmmakers should put their unique stamp on the movies.
They currently couldn't be any less uniform yet still exist within the same world.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

ctrl + F "fun" in every BvS review. And as far as Logan is concerned it still made less than JL and Logan is accepted as a dramatic troubled hero while Superman is not.

I can't believe I have to baby feed the fact that Logan was an R rated picture so obviously it would have a limited appeal to a PG 13 one.

Logan is accepted as a dramatic troubled hero while Superman is not

Superman is not a troubled hero. So rejecting the effort to twist him into one doesn't mean critics hate non-fun superhero movies.

ctrl + F "fun" in every BvS review.

\

Watching BvS is like walking through a graveyard. Even dark movies need to be engaging.

 

[writer0327]

At this point, if I'm running the DCEU, I'm planting spies in Marvel Studios, I'm eavesdropping on all the Russos conversations, I'm headed over to Kevin Feige's house with a couple of guys in ski masks and hoodies and stealing as much as I can. Why would you NOT do what they are doing? They've got the blueprint on cinematic universes and yours has been a pitiful failure.

 

[MbJ]

ctrl + F "fun" in every BvS review.

And then ctrl + F for every instance of poorly developed characters, convoluted plot, and "Lex Luthor" are mentioned as well. The idea that the darkness was th sole thing people criticized about the movie is a myth.

And as far as Logan is concerned it still made less than JL and Logan is accepted as a dramatic troubled hero while Superman is not.

Because Logan was a hard R-rated film, meaning a large chunk of the usual audience for Wolverine films (children) couldn't go see it. Deadpool lucked out in that regard because it had the novelty of being the first big R-rated superhero comedy.

 

[2kt09]

At this point, if I'm running the DCEU, I'm planting spies in Marvel Studios, I'm eavesdropping on all the Russos conversations, I'm headed over to Kevin Feige's house with a couple of guys in ski masks and hoodies and stealing as much as I can. Why would you NOT do what they are doing? They've got the blueprint on cinematic universes and yours has been a pitiful failure.

Because then they'd realize Marvel Studios is already doing the same thing for whatever reason. WB/DC has been looking from afar and a number of years after the fact, so when they finally decided on a blatant, "well, he did wonders for them," it backfired in the worst possible way since the universe's inception.

 

[writer0327]

Because then they'd realize Marvel Studios is already doing the same thing for whatever reason. WB/DC has been looking from afar and a number of years after the fact, so when they finally decided on a blatant, "well, he did wonders for them," it backfired in the worst possible way since the universe's inception.

They need to find a formula that works, but until they do, go ahead and stand on the shoulders of the Marvel giants and mimic them. At this point, you are only making things worse. Stop trying to re-invent the wheel.

JUST COPY MARVEL.

 

[2kt09]

They need to find a formula that works, but until they do, go ahead and stand on the shoulders of the Marvel giants and mimic them. At this point, you are only making things worse. Stop trying to re-invent the wheel.

JUST COPY MARVEL.

It's not about reinventing the wheel.
It's about finding a niche and blowing that up to mass appeal without having to stick to a formula again & again & again & again until there's no again left to again. There's a way to do superheroes and then there's a way to do MCU superheroes.

Also, they are copying Marvel...the comics .ca 2000s

 

[blackdragon6]

marvel films tend have a similar tone with all of their characters, but dc films, imo should have the flexiability of telling something funny and upbeat like shazam and something more somber and serious like the batman.

thank you!!!....

 

[TheVileOne]

Logan was made for probably a fraction of Justice League's budget.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Lesson from Marvel: Don't blow your load too soon. 3 year minimum before the team ups.

Lesson from Fox: Don't copy Marvel's family tone. Improve execution.

Lesson from Snyder vs Feige: Get a ringmaster or leader who gets the characters' and mythos' true appeal.

 

[Frodo]

I agree with you on the filmmakers should put their unique stamp on the movies.
They currently couldn't be any less uniform yet still exist within the same world.

Totally. Fanboys seem to think what Marvel is doing is something mystical and magical , but the bottom line is, they're just making good films.

If the films weren't good and well liked , the GA wouldn't give a crap about shared universes, story archs, and build ups to team ups. Its the characters and the stories the GA has latched onto all this time.

How they structure their film universe on the creative side is one thing, and that depends on the goal of each studio. Aside from that though , it really isn't that complicated as to why the films are successful and well liked. If anything, fanboys over think it.

 

[Tg11]

Furthermore, the DCEU can be saved and the ways to do it in my opinion are as follows:

- Stop announcing developments in the sense of teasing fans with new projects. However, doing that you basically create even more hype that way and when those projects that were announced don't come to fruition it destroys whatever momentum the DCEU can have.

- The DCEU needs to go after stars who are on the rise instead of going after established stars. By that you build franchises but on the backs of new stars who can carry movies who have that screen presence.

- Expanding the brand also works

- DC needs to have its own identity...separate yourself from Marvel and stand out

- Reboot the whole timeline hence Flashpoint

- Rely on the source material

- Recast Batman

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Furthermore, the DCEU can be saved and the ways to do it in my opinion are as follows:

- Stop announcing developments in the sense of teasing fans with new projects. However, doing that you basically create even more hype that way and when those projects that were announced don't come to fruition it destroys whatever momentum the DCEU can have.

- The DCEU needs to go after stars who are on the rise instead of going after established stars. By that you build franchises but on the backs of new stars who can carry movies who have that screen presence.

- Expanding the brand also works

- DC needs to have its own identity...separate yourself from Marvel and stand out

- Reboot the whole timeline hence Flashpoint

- Rely on the source material

- Recast Batman

Do you think we'll still get the Flashpoint movie? There seems to be a lot of scepticism about that around the web

 

[unholyrevenger]

And then ctrl + F for every instance of poorly developed characters, convoluted plot, and "Lex Luthor" are mentioned as well. The idea that the darkness was th sole thing people criticized about the movie is a myth.



Because Logan was a hard R-rated film, meaning a large chunk of the usual audience for Wolverine films (children) couldn't go see it. Deadpool lucked out in that regard because it had the novelty of being the first big R-rated superhero comedy.

Never said Lack of fun was the sole criticism, but it is the the thing that exacerbates all of the other complaints. Every movie has flaws people overlook the flaws because they enjoy the other aspects of the movies. Make a movie that isn't fun or at the very least thrilling and all the problems seems worse than they are.

 

[unholyrevenger]

Really ? If the MCU can make hugely successful and enjoyable films about characters like Ant man and Dr Strange well, I think it seems a bit like being in denial and somewhat ridiculous to deny that the MCU formula works, and works really well.

If a Superman film came out which had a similar tone to Ragnarok, and made Supes likeable and at the same time put him through some rough times, but still was overall fun ( and got great reviews and made a ton of cash) is anyone really going to complain "because it's too much like the MCU!"

Yes, because "Not muh Superman". You can't attach the MCU formula to Superman either. MCU tells the Apathetic hero's Journey (Iron Man, Ant-Man, Black Panther, Doctor Strange) or the Realization of Power Hero's Journey(Captain America, Thor: Ragnarok). Superman doesn't have to realize his power cuz he knows he has it. And the Apathetic Hero's journey can't be applied because Superman has always cared about the world and it's problems.

 

[blackdragon6]

Do you think we'll still get the Flashpoint movie? There seems to be a lot of scepticism about that around the web

I personally think it's a bad idea. It's waaaay too soon for that story line.

 

[Raiden]

Marvel films tend have a similar tone with all of their characters, but DC films, imo should have the flexiability of telling something funny and upbeat like Shazam and something more somber and serious like The Batman.

Funny and upbeat: GOTG, Ant-Man, Thor: Ragnarok

Somber and serious: CA:TWS, CA:CW, Black Panther

Hmm, it's almost like MCU has done it already.

 

[unholyrevenger]

Funny and upbeat: GOTG, Ant-Man, Thor: Ragnarok

Somber and serious: CA:TWS, CA:CW, Black Panther

Hmm, it's almost like MCU has done it already.

tws, CW and BP are not somber. And they aren't serious enough to not crack jokes during serious moments

 

[Raiden]

tws, CW and BP are not somber. And they aren't serious enough to not crack jokes during serious moments

Just because it's not "dark and depressing" like the Snyder movies then it can't be taken as "somber and serious", according to you.

 

[unholyrevenger]

Just because it's not "dark and depressing" like the Snyder movies then it can't be taken as "somber and serious", according to you.

The Dark Knight is a serious movie. BvS is a serious movie but neither are dark and depressing. The ending of Superman the Animated series (Legacy) is darker and more depressing than BvS. Clark taking his decisions serious and reflecting on his actions are not dark and depressing.

 

[blackdragon6]

Funny and upbeat: GOTG, Ant-Man, Thor: Ragnarok

Somber and serious: CA:TWS, CA:CW, Black Panther

Hmm, it's almost like MCU has done it already.

The Russo brothers seems to favor serious tones, but when i look at the humor they seem to be forced on them. Marvel covers different genre's but their tones are almost always the same. I think the Russo movies and BP are outliers.

 

[DrCosmic]

Funny and upbeat: GOTG, Ant-Man, Thor: Ragnarok

Somber and serious: CA:TWS, CA:CW, Black Panther

Hmm, it's almost like MCU has done it already.

TWS is the only one in any way somber. Civil War rollicks through a huge party fight before it gets to a solemn scene with an upbeat conclusion shortly after, and Black Panther doesn't stop joking until the final battle. They are fundamentally parties, celebrations. TWS was more of a funeral for Cap's naivete and for SHIELD, and so it wasn't somber scenes mixed in with funny upbeat scenes, it was just somber, with very sparse and limited humor, that wasn't even used as punctuation, but character development.

Contrast with someting like BvS which is somber and serious and on top of that dark and depressing. Man of Steel arguably as well, or something like Justice League, which was funny and upbeat, but still managed to be depressing...

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Black panther didn't joke much, if at all. All the humor came from situations. Like freezing in front Nakia, or being punked by Shuri.

 

[RomanticPenguin]

what are thooooooooose