DeSanto and Murphy off of Transformers 2?

[Hunter Rider]

I haven't seen many reviews that cited this as something they felt was thought-provoking or gave the franchise resonance.

I think an oil rig attack would've got the critics got the critics and substance-starved movie goer something to dwell on in retrospect. Then when they suggest it was forced into the movie to be timely you just point them to the first episode which set the tone for the entire first 2 seasons.

No one was ever gonna give this movie that kind of credit with Bay directing and the premise of giant robots stomping around earth,the message and similarities of the real world situation right now are there if you want to see it but the aim with this much like Spidey and Star Wars is to entertain ppl with an adventure and characters that you feel for

I do agree with this. Except in the cartoon Earth was pretty defenseless and impotent... like Iraqi civilians caught in the middle. Unlike the movie where humans have big guns and kick ass.

Yep,they beefed us up in order to give the audience a way into the movie to an extent IMO

 

[blind_fury]

I agree lets keep this on topic but fury you have to admit there were times you ranted and raved to such a degree that you basically insulted just about everyone looking forward to the movie on more than one occasion

I maintain that was a defensive measure when fans of the source material were being trivialized and mocked with blanket insults. 90% I ignore or sidestep but I admit there have been numerous times when I lashed out when I could've been tactful.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I maintain that was a defensive measure when fans of the source material were being trivialized and mocked with blanket insults. 90% I ignore or sidestep but I admit there have been numerous times when I lashed out when I could've been tactful.

I don't feel posters like me or Dr Lee were ever dissing the source we sometimes just said we liked a design or something and we'd get caught up in your whirlwind lol,i think if you can debate as you have in this thread it would be much easier

 

[blind_fury]

No one was ever gonna give this movie that kind of credit with Bay directing and the premise of giant robots stomping around earth,the message and similarities of the real world situation right now are there if you want to see it but the aim with this much like Spidey and Star Wars is to entertain ppl with an adventure and characters that you feel for

The Death Star being destroyed meant something to people because it happened 3 years after the Vietnam War was ended.

I doubt the magic flute/cube thing means much to people outside of being a contrived plot device. This only reinforces the idea that the source material had nothing else to offer. I'm hoping the sequel offers something with more resonance like ESB did for Star Wars.

 

[blind_fury]

I don't feel posters like me or Dr Lee were ever dissing the source we sometimes just said we liked a design or something and we'd get caught up in your whirlwind lol,i think if you can debate as you have in this thread it would be much easier

aw c'mon. A little "Bayhem" never hurt anyone.

sorry, I couldn't resist. Your custom title was calling out to me. Making me do things.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The Death Star being destroyed meant something to people because it happened 3 years after the Vietnam War was ended.

I doubt the magic flute/cube thing means much to people outside of being a contrived plot device. This only reinforces the idea that the source material had nothing else to offer. I'm hoping the sequel offers something with more resonance like ESB did for Star Wars.

How on earth did the Death Star represent Vietnam ? if anything the Empire represents the Nazi's and then again we are seriously stretching into a pulp fantasy world that Lucas made as an ode to old westerns.flash Gordon and Knight/Samurai movies

I never mentioned the Allspark i am talking about the idea of one race trying to wipe out another to make their beliefs dominant and another weaker race being cuahgt in the middle

 

[Hunter Rider]

aw c'mon. A little "Bayhem" never hurt anyone.

sorry, I couldn't resist. Your custom title was calling out to me. Making me do things.

heheh i couldn't resist this titlet:

 

[bowspearer]

Ok a few points.

A) Why is it that everyone insists on ripping into the cartoon as justification for disregarding the source material for G1 yet is never able to do the same with the comic (ShadowBoxing, be glad I decided to be nice and not show everyone how you effectively own goaled yourself when the Marvel comics are taken into account with your argument)? It should also be noted that the Marvel Comics were never given to the production team either to use as source materials- only the Dreamwave comics and G1 Cartoon.

B) Don Murphy is an a-grade Hollywood prick sure, but at least he and Tom have been fighting things and trying to make the voices of fans be heard. To everyone who is so quick to rip into Don and praise Michael, it should be pointed out that if Don and co had not stepped in, the US Millitary would have singlehandedly saved the day in the movie, along with other crap that got kicked out of this movie in the nick of time. The fact is that Adam Goodman dropped the ball big time and as a result there were creative deviations there that never would have happened if he were doing his job and keeping Bay in check. What's more, I'd shudder to think of the kind of crap that would get through on the sequel if Bay got the leverage he wanted. As for the so called lies, the fact is that the stuff that was getting leaked out proved to be highly accurate- including the concept art for Starscream that everyone claimed had to be a fake.

C) All Bay could ever do is go on about the visuals and every single time he's been confronted about characterisation he's attacked fans on visual grounds. In fact, I quote from http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1434:

When you see Optimus Transform in this movie for the first time and don't get a chill up your spine -- then **** off - because nothing in cinema will excite you!!! And trust me you won't care about the flames.

The only difference is that he's now attacking everyone in the production team who disagreed with him like some little brat who thinks he can get away with blue murder now, now that the movie has left him thinking that he could power solar panels simply by mooning them.

 

[CFlash]

The Death Star being destroyed meant something to people because it happened 3 years after the Vietnam War was ended.

I doubt the magic flute/cube thing means much to people outside of being a contrived plot device. This only reinforces the idea that the source material had nothing else to offer. I'm hoping the sequel offers something with more resonance like ESB did for Star Wars.

Hey, B_F... you're not boycotting the movie are you? Although I agree with you that this is NOT the story they should be telling, I think it does have something to offer. I'm just afraid that it's more a right-wing bent than anything else (judging by Bay's previous films).... but that remains to be seen....OR as some of the reviewers have suggested there's something for everybody (balancing some of the right-wingedness with a jab at Bush).

If so, I would commend Bay for making a movie that appeals to everybody on some level.

 

[CFlash]

Holy smokes!... Bowspearer?... I used to love reading your stuff like a year ago when I lurked in the Murphy and Bay forums.

 

[Hunter Rider]

B) Don Murphy is an a-grade Hollywood prick sure, but at least he and Tom have been fighting things and trying to make the voices of fans be heard. To everyone who is so quick to rip into Don and praise Michael, it should be pointed out that if Don and co had not stepped in, the US Millitary would have singlehandedly saved the day in the movie, along with other crap that got kicked out of this movie in the nick of time. The fact is that Adam Goodman dropped the ball big time and as a result there were creative deviations there that never would have happened if he were doing his job and keeping Bay in check. What's more, I'd shudder to think of the kind of crap that would get through on the sequel if Bay got the leverage he wanted. As for the so called lies, the fact is that the stuff that was getting leaked out proved to be highly accurate- including the concept art for Starscream that everyone claimed had to be a fake.

Can you prove the 2 bolded parts b/c this is the first i have heard of this

 

[bowspearer]

Hey, B_F... you're not boycotting the movie are you? Although I agree with you that this is NOT the story they should be telling, I think it does have something to offer. I'm just afraid that it's more a right-wing bent than anything else (judging by Bay's previous films).... but that remains to be seen....OR as some of the reviewers have suggested there's something for everybody (balancing some of the right-wingedness with a jab at Bush).

If so, I would commend Bay for making a movie that appeals to everybody on some level.

I have to disagree CFlash- the fact is that Bay failed to make anything more than a standard fare popcorn flick with giant transforming robots in it. Sure it's a fine action film, but a piss-poor Transformers film: with the savign grace that it could have been ALOT worse. It might appeal to the masses, and even the casual fans, but not those of us who are hardcore fans of the mythos who fell in love with the characters and expected them to be deep and powerful characters on screen (regardless of how little dialogue they got).

 

[blind_fury]

How on earth did the Death Star represent Vietnam ? if anything the Empire represents the Nazi's and then again we are seriously stretching into a pulp fantasy world that Lucas made as an ode to old westerns.flash Gordon and Knight/Samurai movies

I never mentioned the Allspark i am talking about the idea of one race trying to wipe out another to make their beliefs dominant and another weaker race being cuahgt in the middle

well true the Empire and Death Star represented something different to everyone but the execution was done resonably well so people wanted to understand it. They wanted to relate to the struggle to destroy it. I'm just hoping the struggle for the AllSpark evokes a similar interest from the movie goer. Based on the reviews the AllSpak came off as a silly and empty plot device which as I said before reinforces the idea that the source material had nothing more to offer but visual spectacle.

 

[Cth]

Ok a few points.

A) Why is it that everyone insists on ripping into the cartoon as justification for disregarding the source material for G1 yet is never able to do the same with the comic (ShadowBoxing, be glad I decided to be nice and not show everyone how you effectively own goaled yourself when the Marvel comics are taken into account with your argument)? It should also be noted that the Marvel Comics were never given to the production team either to use as source materials- only the Dreamwave comics and G1 Cartoon.

Source? It seems they took more from the IDW comics than anything else.

Given most comic/genre adaptations, they usually go with the most current and then look back to incorporate.

See also: FF, Spidey, etc.

 

[Hunter Rider]

well true the Empire and Death Star represented something different to everyone but the execution was done resonably well so people wanted to understand it. They wanted to relate to the struggle to destroy it. I'm just hoping the struggle for the AllSpark evokes a similar interest from the movie goer. Based on the reviews the AllSpak came off as a silly and empty plot device which as I said before reinforces the idea that the source material had nothing more to offer but visual spectacle.

I think we'd have to know what Lucas intended when he wrote it to say whether it represent anything or if we are merely reading into it what we wish to see.
Again the Allspark is not what is supposed to resonate

 

[bowspearer]

Can you prove the 2 bolded parts b/c this is the first i have heard of this

With the first part: sadly I can't, but anyone who still has a copy of the Feb 06 script draft can. Mine got wiped when my moronic flatmates helped themselves to my computer and switched it off in the middle of it running checkdisk- resulting in 12 gigs worth of transformers stuff getting wiped from one of my hard drives.

As for the second part, if you do a search by threads on his message board you'll find it on there circa early 2005.

 

[Figs]

Can you prove the 2 bolded parts b/c this is the first i have heard of this

I second this!

 

[Figs]

With the first part: sadly I can't, but anyone who still has a copy of the Feb 06 script draft can. Mine got wiped when my moronic flatmates helped themselves to my computer and switched it off in the middle of it running checkdisk- resulting in 12 gigs worth of transformers stuff getting wiped from one of my hard drives.

As for the second part, if you do a search by threads on his message board you'll find it on there circa early 2005.

Thanks!

 

[Hunter Rider]

With the first part: sadly I can't, but anyone who still has a copy of the Feb 06 script draft can. Mine got wiped when my moronic flatmates helped themselves to my computer and switched it off in the middle of it running checkdisk- resulting in 12 gigs worth of transformers stuff getting wiped from one of my hard drives.

As for the second part, if you do a search by threads on his message board you'll find it on there circa early 2005.

Ok i see....as for the second part,well i am unlikely to do that search but ive never heard any word that a Starscream design that was deemed fakes was actually real,in fact i don't think i have seen the design you are talking about

 

[bowspearer]

Source? It seems they took more from the IDW comics than anything else.

Given most comic/genre adaptations, they usually go with the most current and then look back to incorporate.

See also: FF, Spidey, etc.

Well it's possible that they were given those down the track. I was referring to initially. I know the Marvel comics weren't there because I tried confirming what I'd heard with Roberto Orci, by asking him if the Marvel Comics were given to them as source materials. I got a vague and spin doctored answer- the kind you hear politicians giving when they want to answer a question in a way where they don't really address it.

 

[blind_fury]

Hey, B_F... you're not boycotting the movie are you? Although I agree with you that this is NOT the story they should be telling, I think it does have something to offer. I'm just afraid that it's more a right-wing bent than anything else (judging by Bay's previous films).... but that remains to be seen....OR as some of the reviewers have suggested there's something for everybody (balancing some of the right-wingedness with a jab at Bush).

If so, I would commend Bay for making a movie that appeals to everybody on some level.

No, I'm going to watch it tomorrow.

I concede that making the film radical left-wing propaganda would alienate half the audience and would possibly destroy a chance of a sequel. But there are ways to go about these things were the slant wouldn't be so obvious and there's plenty of room for interpretation.

But it helps to put thought-provoking elements in there that people can analyze and reflect on if they choose to. This adds gravity to the conflicts and context to the fight scenes and elevates the movie above empty spectacle.

 

[Cth]

With the first part: sadly I can't, but anyone who still has a copy of the Feb 06 script draft can. Mine got wiped when my moronic flatmates helped themselves to my computer and switched it off in the middle of it running checkdisk- resulting in 12 gigs worth of transformers stuff getting wiped from one of my hard drives.

As for the second part, if you do a search by threads on his message board you'll find it on there circa early 2005.

I just checked the Feb 06 script..

Spoiler

Bumblebee still takes out Devastator (Brawl)
Army takes out Vortex (Blackout)
Sam takes out Megatron
Bonecrusher doesn't die at the hands of Optimus
Starscream still escapes (after Optimus lands a huge blow)

Still trying to track down Barricade.. he was lost in the script if I recall correctly

Nothing really different except what was bolded. In fact, Optimus vs. SS was taken out of the original script and changed for the movie it seems.

 

[Cth]

As for the leaked images, etc.. I agree, a lot of that was proven accurate.

 

[CFlash]

Ok i see....as for the second part,well i am unlikely to do that search but ive never heard any word that a Starscream design that was deemed fakes was actually real,in fact i don't think i have seen the design you are talking about

If I remember correctly the leaked brown Gorilla-Scream model was decried by Bay... vaguely. But it seems SS turned out to look almost exactly like him. I guess it's tough as a director to have an image in your head what it's going to look like walking and talking but have fans dissin a lifeless model.

 

[CFlash]

I just checked the Feb 06 script..

Spoiler

Bumblebee still takes out Devastator (Brawl)
Army takes out Vortex (Blackout)
Sam takes out Megatron
Bonecrusher doesn't die at the hands of Optimus
Starscream still escapes (after Optimus lands a huge blow)

Still trying to track down Barricade.. he was lost in the script if I recall correctly

Nothing really different except what was bolded. In fact, Optimus vs. SS was taken out of the original script and changed for the movie it seems.

No, in the script:

Spoiler

-Mikaela (or Maggie? I forget) takes out Devatator/Brawl.... using Bumblebee's arm. SHE did it.
As for the rest you're accurate.
-But Bonecrusher does die at the hands of the Army. It happens real quick AFTER his fight with Optimus. He's surrounded by Jazz, Ratchet, etc. And Lennox (a human) lodges a bomb into him.
-Also you forgot Frenzy. He gets killed twice-- by the two chics. Partly because of his own stupidity.

Since Barricade's fate is cloudy: the number of Decepticons killed by Autobots stood at ZERO in the script. Hopefully the movie changed all that. Although I suspect not much. Plus, BB has no business taking anybody out IMO! LOL.