DeSanto and Murphy off of Transformers 2?

[ShadowBoxing]

So? The Energy Crisis was still in the zeitgeist. As was the Department of Energy, created by Carter, trying to flex its muscle (or not flexing) under Reagan. It was a very big deal at the time. In fact, it became even more important as it was put in charge of not only getting rid of nuclear weapons during the arms-race cutbacks (remember all those Gorbechov "Summits"?) but also actually maintaining them and nuclear power plants.

But Transformers was hardly a political show. It never even showed the Government or it's leaders. It never got involved with military crisises or had episodes devoted to modern day events.

To ignore some of these real-world things that Transformers touched upon- in an afternoon kid's cartoon no matter how subtle- is ridiculous. Of course it took almost a decade and a "cable" channel to go all out and do the "hit you over the head" thing (Capt Planet) for the more obtuse kids out there.

But they didn't, because they weren't. They would've done more environmentally conscious episodes if that were important or part of the show. They didn't.

So?

So for such a "liberal" show why would you base it's main character on such a Staunchly conservative male archatype?

Didn't this happen only once? And even then only arguably so. You overstate the point.

It happened several times. Hispanics, Arabs, African Americans...and of course *ahem* women (who were all virtually non existent) all had very stereotypical characters show up.

No, because then it would have sucked and been worse than Captain Planet. You like to spoon-fed your themes and hit over the head.

I don't, but Children do.

And Transformers does "hit you over the head" with the same lessons about honesty, sharing, and doing what you're told that most shows of the eighties did.

Of course they did. Seemed that Cybertron being a dying planet that ONCE had an abundance of energy is all you need to make the point.

Cybertron didn't die. It in fact lasted another 4 million years in their abscene. Had they wanted to make that point the way was clear, destroy Cybertron.

Some of us don't need to be constantly reminded of a premise. I now see that there do exist people that need to have their hand held.

But. Children. Do. And that show was made for children, not environmentally conscious adults to enjoy 20 years after it's cancelation.

 

[Marvin]

i figure if they make a captain planet movie..

and they don't have a tyrant searching for oil and hurting the environment in the process

than fans can b1tch about how it's missing the point..and downplaying/robbing everyone the opportunity to understand what made that show resonate with the fans


Transformers is different

people didn't watch it and the very next day talk about oil, or fossil fuels as a subplot

what had the YOUNG audience teaming and pinning for more was...
whats here in this movie

peace

 

[bluejake01]

Ive been reading bluejake01 for months now and he doesn't debate people. He simply looks for opportunities to slander people who disagree with his "the source material has nothing else to offer" position. He acts as if he's just a neutral observer when he was never a fair judge of character but a snake waiting for a chance to come out the grass. He doesn't care about constructive criticism. He'd rather censor everything that doesn't echo other Bay cheerleaders.

wow! these slanderous dissertations are fun! No wonder bluejake01 stoops to this level so often.

They thing is...you have always called people that don't agree with you "Bay cheerleaders" or some other derogatory name. You bring the criticism on yourself, and if I was the first, or the second, or the third, or the fourth person to finally say they've had enough of your crap you might have a point.

 

[blind_fury]

I see...but I think you are searching for another word...unless you really meant the show was subversive...which I don't get.

No subversive is the perfect word. Hence the over-usage.

And is Star Wars fiction "subversive" in general?

No, but it had subversive elements in it, as did Transformers. These should be explored instead of giving characters like Jar Jar (or Frenzy for that matter) too much screen time.

 

[blind_fury]

They thing is...you have always called people that don't agree with you "Bay cheerleaders" or some other derogatory name. You bring the criticism on yourself, and if I was the first, or the second, or the third, or the fourth person to finally say they've had enough of your crap you might have a point.

I use the term sparingly and only in self-defense.

 

[Figs]

Oil rig once. Oil tankers another time. Oil from refinery yet another time after that. (Come on people, no pattern yet???). Ruby at the top of the planet used to harness the planet's energy another time. Bringing Cybertron into orbit to directly take the energy another time. Dinobot Island- yup rich in resources Megs wants it. Insatiable Insecticons eating swaths of land. Yes this is in between the sporadic Camelot throaway filler episodes.

P.S.
You know, it's OK if you like the Castle Greyskull mythic Search for The Magical Artifact that latter episodes fell into. Lots of people like that stuff. Apparently, this movie's creator's liked that aspect to. I preferred the original topical sci-fi elements.

Trying to gain power and oil as you and a few others say doesn't mean or make it sci-fi. You could equate that plot/agenda to just about any genre.

 

[blind_fury]

i figure if they make a captain planet movie..

and they don't have a tyrant searching for oil and hurting the environment in the process

than fans can b1tch about how it's missing the point..and downplaying/robbing everyone the opportunity to understand what made that show resonate with the fans


Transformers is different

people didn't watch it and the very next day talk about oil, or fossil fuels as a subplot

what had the YOUNG audience teaming and pinning for more was...
whats here in this movie

peace

peace in the middle east dude.

groovy.

 

[bluejake01]

No subversive is the perfect word. Hence the over-usage.

And is Star Wars fiction "subversive" in general?

No, but it had subversive elements in it, as did Transformers. These should be explored instead of giving characters like Jar Jar (or Frenzy for that matter) too much screen time.

So...Transformers goal was to destroy institutions from the inside?

 

[Marvin]

peace in the middle east dude.

groovy.

i said peace as a good bye,

not as the answer to my question

 

[bluejake01]

I use the term sparingly and only in self-defense.

You make broad generalized statements attacking people that liked the direction the movie was heading. It has been addressed several times. When enough people see something, maybe the world is out to get you, but more than likely you are doing that which they all see.

 

[CFlash]

But didn't they only attack an oil rig ONCE? And even then it was any type of power source they were after. You overstate the point.

Oil rig once. Oil tankers another time. Oil from refinery yet another time after that. (Come on people, no pattern yet???). Ruby at the top of the planet used to harness the planet's energy another time. Bringing Cybertron into orbit to directly take the energy another time. Dinobot Island- yup rich in resources Megs wants it. Insatiable Insecticons eating swaths of land. Yes this is in between the sporadic Camelot throaway filler episodes.

P.S.
You know, it's OK if you like the Castle Greyskull mythic Search for The Magical Artifact that latter episodes fell into. Lots of people like that stuff. Apparently, this movie's creator's liked that aspect to. I preferred the original topical sci-fi elements.

Trying to gain power and oil as you and a few others say doesn't mean or make it sci-fi. You could equate that plot/agenda to just about any genre.

Except it's particularly poignant when it's sentient machines doing it.

 

[blind_fury]

Yeah I think the "addicted to oil" aspect would've made the conflicts in the film more compelling and interesting. You just present these ideas and the characters struggles resonate on a personal and genuine level rather than just a shallow or visceral one.

 

[blind_fury]

Except it's particularly poignant when it's sentient machines doing it.

That's when you crank up the Rage Against the Machine.

During the oil raid scene.

j/k



















or am I!!!

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I bolded any episode that had to do with oil, or mentions oil as a means to create energon. Overstating the point much?

Pilot Mini-Series 1984

1. 0- 1 17 Sep 84? More Than Meets the Eye (1)
2. 0- 2 18 Sep 84? More Than Meets the Eye (2)
3. 0- 3 19 Sep 84? More Than Meets the Eye (3)
   
   1st Season 1984
4. 1- 1 700-01 6 Oct 84 Transport to Oblivion
5. 1- 2 700-02 13 Oct 84 Roll for It
6. 1- 3 700-03 20 Oct 84 Divide and Conquer
7. 1- 4 700-05 27 Oct 84 S.O.S. Dinobots
8. 1- 5 700-08 3 Nov 84 The Ultimate Doom: Brainwash (1)
9. 1- 6 700-09 10 Nov 84 The Ultimate Doom: Search (2)
10. 1- 7 700-10 17 Nov 84 The Ultimate Doom: Revival (3)
11. 1- 8 700-07 24 Nov 84 War of the Dinobots
12. 1- 9 700-11 1 Dec 84 Countdown to Extinction
13. 1-10 700-04 8 Dec 84 Fire in the Sky
14. 1-11 700-13 15 Dec 84 Heavy Metal War
15. 1-12 700-06 22 Dec 84 Fire on the Mountain
16. 1-13 700-12 29 Dec 84 A Plague of Insecticons
    
    2nd Season 1985
17. 2- 1 700-16 23 Sep 85 Autobot Spike
18. 2- 2 700-21 24 Sep 85 The Immobilizer
19. 2- 3 700-29 25 Sep 85 Dinobot Island (1)
20. 2- 4 700-30 26 Sep 85 Dinobot Island (2)
21. 2- 5 700-20 27 Sep 85 Traitor
22. 2- 6 700-25 30 Sep 85 Enter the Nightbird
23. 2- 7 700-17 1 Oct 85 Changing Gears
24. 2- 8 700-26 2 Oct 85 A Prime Problem
25. 2- 9 700-23 3 Oct 85 Atlantis, Arise!
26. 2-10 700-19 4 Oct 85 Attack of the Autobots
27. 2-11 700-33 7 Oct 85 Microbots
28. 2-12 700-31 8 Oct 85 The Master Builders
29. 2-13 700-28 9 Oct 85 The Insecticon Syndrome
30. 2-14 700-24 10 Oct 85? Day of the Machines (aka The Machine Rebellion)
31. 2-15 700-34 14 Oct 85 Megatron's Master Plan (1)
32. 2-16 700-35 15 Oct 85? Megatron's Master Plan (2)
33. 2-17 700-32 16 Oct 85 Auto Berserk
34. 2-18 700-18 17 Oct 85 City of Steel
35. 2-19 700-36 21 Oct 85 Desertion of the Dinobots (1)
36. 2-20 700-37 22 Oct 85? Desertion of the Dinobots (2)
37. 2-21 700-38 23 Oct 85? Blaster Blues
38. 2-22 700-39 24 Oct 85? A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court
39. 2-23 700-41 28 Oct 85? The God Gambit
40. 2-24 700-27 29 Oct 85? The Core
41. 2-25 700-42 30 Oct 85? Make Tracks
42. 2-26 700-22 31 Oct 85 The Autobot Run
43. 2-27 700-40 4 Nov 85 Golden Lagoon
44. 2-28 700-44 5 Nov 85 Quest for Survival
45. 2-29 700-45 6 Nov 85 The Secret of Omega Supreme
46. 2-30 700-43 7 Nov 85 Child's Play
47. 2-31 700-46 11 Nov 85 The Gambler
48. 2-32 700-52 12 Nov 85 The Search for Alpha Trion
49. 2-33 700-51 13 Nov 85 Auto-Bop
50. 2-34 700-50 14 Nov 85 Prime Target
51. 2-35 700-53 18 Nov 85 The Girl Who Loved Powerglide
52. 2-36 700-49 19 Nov 85 Triple Take-Over
53. 2-37 700-48 20 Nov 85 Sea Change
54. 2-38 700-54 21 Nov 85 Hoist Goes Hollywood
55. 2-39 700-55 25 Nov 85 The Key to Vector Sigma (1)
56. 2-40 700-56 26 Nov 85 The Key to Vector Sigma (2)
57. 2-41 700-57 10 Dec 85 Aerial Assault
58. 2-42 700-63 16 Dec 85 Masquerade
59. 2-43 700-59 23 Dec 85 Trans-Europe Express
60. 2-44 700-58 25 Dec 85 War Dawn
61. 2-45 700-60 26 Dec 85 Cosmic Rust
62. 2-46 700-47 27 Dec 85 Kremzeek!
63. 2-47 700-61 7 Jan 86 Starscream's Brigade
64. 2-48 700-62 8 Jan 86 Revenge of Bruticus
65. 2-49 700-64 9 Jan 86 B.O.T.
    
    Theatrical Movie 1986
    
    M- 1 Jul 86 The Transformers - The Movie
    
    3rd Season 1986
66. 3- 1 700-86 15 Sep 86 The Five Faces of Darkness (1)
67. 3- 2 700-87 16 Sep 86 The Five Faces of Darkness (2)
68. 3- 3 700-88 17 Sep 86 The Five Faces of Darkness (3)
69. 3- 4 700-89 18 Sep 86 The Five Faces of Darkness (4)
70. 3- 5 700-90 19 Sep 86 The Five Faces of Darkness (5)
71. 3- 6 700-91 29 Sep 86? The Killing Jar
72. 3- 7 700-92 30 Sep 86 Chaos
73. 3- 8 700-93 1 Oct 86 Dark Awakening
74. 3- 9 700-95 2 Oct 86 Starscream's Ghost
75. 3-10 700-96 6 Oct 86 Thief in the Night (This one actually goes into how much oil is needed to create Energon...probably the closest we ever get to a scarcity reference)
76. 3-11 700-94 8 Oct 86 Forever Is a Long TIme Coming
77. 3-12 700-97 9 Oct 86 Surprise Party
78. 3-13 700-98 13 Oct 86 Madman's Paradise
79. 3-14 700-102 14 Oct 86 Carnage in C-Minor
80. 3-15 700-106 15 Oct 86 Fight or Flee
81. 3-16 700-101 20 Oct 86 Webworld
82. 3-17 700-100 21 Oct 86 Ghost in the Machine
83. 3-18 700-107 30 Oct 86 The Dweller in the Depths
84. 3-19 700-99 31 Oct 86 Nightmare Planet
85. 3-20 700-104 10 Nov 86 The Ultimate Weapon
86. 3-21 700-103 11 Nov 86 The Quintesson Journal
87. 3-22 700-105 12 Nov 86 The Big Broadcast of 2006
88. 3-23 700-108 13 Nov 86 Only Human
89. 3-24 700-110 14 Nov 86? Grimlock's New Brain
90. 3-25 700-109 17 Nov 86 Money Is Everything
91. 3-26 700-112 18 Nov 86? Call of the Primitives
92. 3-27 700-114 19 Nov 86? The Burden Hardest to Bear
93. 3-28 700-113 20 Nov 86? The Face of the Nijika
94. 3-29 700-115 24 Feb 87 The Return of Optimus Prime (1)
95. 3-30 700-116 25 Feb 87 The Return of Optimus Prime (2)
    
    4th Season 1987
96. 4- 1 6701-01 9 Nov 87 The Rebirth (1)
97. 4- 2 6701-02 10 Nov 87 The Rebirth (2)
98. 4- 3 6701-03 11 Nov 87 The Rebirth (3)

 

[blind_fury]

You make broad generalized statements attacking people that liked the direction the movie was heading. It has been addressed several times. When enough people see something, maybe the world is out to get you, but more than likely you are doing that which they all see.

can we get back to debating the merits of the film vs the source material.

You diversionary bs is getting annoying.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Yeah I think the "addicted to oil" aspect would've made the conflicts in the film more compelling and interesting. You just present these ideas and the characters struggles resonate on a personal and genuine level rather than just a shallow or visceral one.

I think when the central issue is one race of robots trying to stop another race wiping their kind out to become the soul power and at the same time you have the innocent human race stuck in the middle of their massive war their is plenty that resonates and plenty that connects on a personal level.

 

[Hunter Rider]

can we get back to debating the merits of the film vs the source material.

You diversionary bs is getting annoying.

I agree lets keep this on topic but fury you have to admit there were times you ranted and raved to such a degree that you basically insulted just about everyone looking forward to the movie on more than one occasion

 

[blind_fury]

I bolded any episode that had to do with oil, or mentions oil as a means to create energon. Overstating the point much?[/LIST]

we should use the powerglide falls in love episode instead.

wait a minute maybe Micheal Bay did use that plot instead of a socio-political allegory for the War in Iraq which would resonate with audiences and give the franchise some substance and depth to give those endless explosions some context.

 

[Hunter Rider]

we should use the powerglide falls in love episode instead.

wait a minute maybe Micheal Bay did use that plot instead of a socio-political allegory for the War in Iraq which would resonate with audiences and give the franchise some substance and depth to give those endless explosions some context.

So is focusing on a race being wiped out in a war while another is caught in the middle of someone else's war

 

[Cth]

Someone should post a "Worst G1 Episode Of All Time" thread.. take nominations and then do a poll..

 

[CFlash]

I bolded any episode that had to do with oil, or mentions oil as a means to create energon. Overstating the point much?
[/list]

I can point to the passage in Hamlet that's about sanity and disillusionment (there's only one) that forms the whole tone of the play. OR is Hamlet just about "Revenge" to you. It's not, you know.

And as I've said repeatedly it wasn't just about "OIL" (although they did seem to have a predilection for it seeing as how they went after it MULTIPLE times unlike those Burmese crystals). It was about the resources and minerals found on Earth.

 

[Cth]

The last time a summer blockbuster went with environmental themes, it pretty much bombed (THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW).

With Bay's baggage, they probably wanted to avoid the Emmerich comparison.

 

[Gold Samurai]

I'm glad don murphy isn't coming back his loud rants at the fans were really grating

 

[blind_fury]

I think when the central issue is one race of robots trying to stop another race wiping their kind out to become the soul power and at the same time you have the innocent human race stuck in the middle of their massive war their is plenty that resonates and plenty that connects on a personal level.

I haven't seen many reviews that cited this as something they felt was thought-provoking or gave the franchise resonance.

I think an oil rig attack would've got the critics got the critics and substance-starved movie goer something to dwell on in retrospect. Then when they suggest it was forced into the movie to be timely you just point them to the first episode which set the tone for the entire first 2 seasons.

 

[CFlash]

I think when the central issue is one race of robots trying to stop another race wiping their kind out to become the soul power and at the same time you have the innocent human race stuck in the middle of their massive war their is plenty that resonates and plenty that connects on a personal level.

I do agree with this. Except in the cartoon Earth was pretty defenseless and impotent... like Iraqi civilians caught in the middle. Unlike the movie where humans have big guns and kick ass.