DeSanto and Murphy off of Transformers 2?

[Marvin]

so what's the problem

(speaking thematically of course)

apart from fanboy nit picky details that is

 

[ShadowBoxing]

so what's the problem

(speaking thematically of course)

apart from fanboy nit picky details that is

Because aparrently most ppl here have only seen a few episodes here and there, are taking wild misconceptions and innaccurate claims about the show and then saying Bay isn't embodying them.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Although I should confess there is a little subtext in the episode entitled "Dinobot Island". Grimlock says "feels like home to me, but not know why" when he encounters Dinobot Island. This is a references to the Marvel Comic where his home was the Savage land...in essence a dinobot land lost in time.

 

[CFlash]

so what's the problem

(speaking thematically of course)

apart from fanboy nit picky details that is

One is about sentient machines exploiting our planet's resources just like our cars, factories, light, need for electricity, etc do. The other is about sentient machines looking for a box that helps them reproduce. You tell me which one says more about the world we live in. Transformers, the cartoon together with the comic, just a put a face on the former.

But, Hunter Rider is right... to an extent. The "motivation," ultimately, is the same... "conquest," which is also the same cliched theme in all good-guy/bad-guy toons and movies as Dr. Evil would attest. What made Transformers different is that it spoke to the times both then and now in a fairly direct way.

 

[Marvin]

One is about sentient machines exploiting our planet's resources just like our cars, factories, light, need for electricity, etc do. The other is about sentient machines looking for a box that helps them reproduce. You tell me which one says more about the world we live in. Transformers, the cartoon together with the comic, just a put a face on the former.

But, Hunter Rider is right... to an extent. The "motivation," ultimately, is the same... "conquest," which is also the same cliched theme in all good-guy/bad-guy toons and movies as Dr. Evil would attest. What made Transformers different is that it spoke to the times both then and now in a fairly direct way.

I see now(didn't watch tv...i still don't to be honest)

what it comes down to is the classic

just cause it isn't exactly ur way...the way it was...doesn't mean that any attempt to make it better ends up being worse

i mean changing kryptonite to gold for and saying gold hurts him is suspect...
but changing metallos motivation to something more practical isn't
Lex wants power/lex wants superman dead...ultimately the same

if ur saying that the film would be better if it said more about todays world that's great..
next we could have a texan sounding Prime searcing for osama who has hijacked starscream and crashes him into...the world trade centre!

my point...
beyond the sub themes...the main theme is still the same
and the sub text of an life giving cube that predates time opens itself up to a wonderful discussion
(eat that darwin)

 

[ShadowBoxing]

One is about sentient machines exploiting our planet's resources just like our cars, factories, light, need for electricity, etc do. The other is about sentient machines looking for a box that helps them reproduce. You tell me which one says more about the world we live in. Transformers, the cartoon together with the comic, just a put a face on the former.

(First off the comic rarely focused on the energy aspect. It focused heavily on the politics of the two factions and the relationship the Autobots/Decepticons had with the humans...both good and bad. There were figures like G.B Blackrock, Circuit Breaker, Joey Slick, the Mechanic, etc. etc. All of whom were intollocutors with the Transformers and had run-ins with their various members throughout the comic.)

Then you write your own Transformers movie complete with hippie Prime and environmentalist plot (by the way, Beast Machines beat you to it). However Hunter_Rider and myself (and several other posters) are correct to point out what Bay did is not inconsistent or a violation of the shows premise. The shows premise was not "war for oil" or "defend the environment": the show was a simple good versus evil battle where evil wanted something that made evil more powerful and good had to stop them. Didn't really matter what it was, it somehow had something to do with energon, but rarely was any rhyme or reason given as to how.

And this movie (which I just saw) does not violate this point. It is a story about good versus evil, where evil wants something (the Allspark) that will make it more powerful. And to me it goes about it in a more logical and consistent way than Transformers did. The Allspark is not some vague substance that can be made from everything from test science equipment to ruby crystals. It is something definite, finite and vital to the Transformers. And certainly a race facing it's own extinction, being lost from it's home world can be just as jarring and meaningful.

 

[Boiiinng]

And this movie (which I just saw) does not violate this point. It is a story about good versus evil, where evil wants something (the Allspark) that will make it more powerful.

Correction, it's stated as ALL SPARK in the movie.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

So who else noticed Skywarp was in the film

 

[Marvin]

r u gonna post a review already?

(i'm seeing it friday)

 

[Marvin]

nevermind

 

[ShadowBoxing]

r u gonna post a review already?

(i'm seeing it friday)

It's in the User reviews thread...it got a 10/10.

 

[Marvin]

yay

guess that's 4/4

 

[Avangarde]

So who else noticed Skywarp was in the film

I must have missed that one, he wasn't the stealth bomber was he?

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I must have missed that one, he wasn't the stealth bomber was he?

No you see planes, similar, but not the same as Starscream. One of which had a jet black nose and body with bright purple wings and fins.

 

[Avangarde]

No you see planes, similar, but not the same as Starscream. One of which had a jet black nose and body with bright purple wings and fins.

What part of the movie was he shown?

 

[CFlash]

No you see planes, similar, but not the same as Starscream. One of which had a jet black nose and body with bright purple wings and fins.

That's cool. Thanks for the heads-up. Now I'm gonna be looking for it. I'm sure some geek behind will call it out first tho.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

What part of the movie was he shown?

Right before the scramble the jets to the city you see an airstrip with a few Jets on it. I could have sworn I saw this clear as day, I'm gonna be looking even harder next time.

 

[Boiiinng]

Or it was the lighting.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I posted a thread on the Allspark to see if anyone else saw it.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Or it was the lighting.

Go find another message board to troll.

 

[Avangarde]

Right before the scramble the jets to the city you see an airstrip with a few Jets on it. I could have sworn I saw this clear as day, I'm gonna be looking even harder next time.

Cheers dude, I'll keep an eye out for it the next time I see the movie.

 

[Boiiinng]

Go find another message board to troll.

Ahahahahahahaha. It finally happens. I call you out on something ridiculous that your mind made up and all you can do is yell at me. Classic.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Ahahahahahahaha. It finally happens. I call you out on something ridiculous that your mind made up and all you can do is yell at me. Classic.

No, but don't go into threads like "what was your favorite character" and say "none, they all sucked". Go find a thread devoted to pissing and moaning and post there. No one needs your negative ranting everywhere they turn. Sorry Bay excluded you from the party, but Good bye.

We have a "Negatron" thread that you can go post in until your fingers go numb...go bump it.

 

[bowspearer]

I have the UK on computer file, but thanks for asking. All these things you bring up are great stories, but much like Inferno (X-Factor/X-Men) and Target: 2006, they aren't exactly fodder for movies. The characterization was great at times. And I think Simon Furman is a great writer, but he doesn't do Transformers introductory films, he does stories that appeal to long time fans with a deep knowledge of the toyline and it's characters. I honestly don't see myself watching "Bludgeon and Grimlock the Movie". That characterization you describe also is for the really hardcore Sci-Fi/fantasy/Transformer junky. Not for the average moviegoer. I don't think people could stand the deep introspective robots and appretiate them on the level I do, certainly not when you are setting up a war that's suppose to last three films.

I disagree about how the audience might handle the characters. Case in point: I was on a train going home from work when I heard a group of 30 something women who were talking about how there was possibly going to be a Wolverine movie and I wound up getting into a conversation with them. It turns out they had no experience of the comics etc- only the movie and yet they loved the deepness of Wolverine. I mean this is a very good example of how the fear of the average moviegoer being dumber than a sack of spuds really isn't justified.

On the other hand though, I agree about having overt character expositions in the first movie. So what needs to happen in my mind is somve very skillful story writing. By that I mean you do what Tolkien did in his books, but before you even write the script- you do a reference guide of your own on the characters and their universe, with an in-depth backstory for each character, including what makes them tick and what major events shaped them, along with all the rules of that continuity in terms of what can and can't be done. Then once you're happy with the characters, you start writing the script- making sure to follow that reference guide to the letter and tweaking the story slightly where need be to fit the characters: making every action and every single utterance fit those characterisations.

Arguably, if you pull that off, even a few lines said by a character will ultimately speak volumes.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I disagree about how the audience might handle the characters. Case in point: I was on a train going home from work when I heard a group of 30 something women who were talking about how there was possibly going to be a Wolverine movie and I wound up getting into a conversation with them. It turns out they had no experience of the comics etc- only the movie and yet they loved the deepness of Wolverine. I mean this is a very good example of how the fear of the average moviegoer being dumber than a sack of spuds really isn't justified.

But at the end of the day Wolverine needs to slash something. Simon Furman wrote melodramatic fanwank. Stuff that was fun to read, not particularlly groundbreaking comic writing, but good and solid stuff. However it was not the stuff of movies. It was almost soap operaish in quality. You honestly don't want to see a movie about Prime having to fight a half Ratchet/half Megatron creature or pondering surrender or trying to make peace. That was the stuff Furman wrote about, and usually his stories drew off of already established fan lore. Some of this stuff may work for sequels. But his stuff is generally too aloof for anyone but an established fan, and usually is only good when you want something to be character driven instead of action driven. I was never much for his Unicron attack, it didn't involve enough Unicron as the movie did.