Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

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Which, as George Carlin said, has only existed for 200 years, in comparison to the 4.5 BILLION years the Earth has existed, and we're a threat to the planet?!

St. George also said that we didn't need to "save the planet". We need to save the people. The planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas.


So saving the people is a worthy goal. Even for St. George.


Now this is a church I can get behind. :D


:doom: :doom: :doom:
 
St. George also said that we didn't need to "save the planet". We need to save the people. The planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas.


So saving the people is a worthy goal. Even for St. George.


Now this is a church I can get behind. :D


:doom: :doom: :doom:

St. George didn't believe in saving the people. St. George said many times the species was f***ed, and he'd given up all hope on us ever making anything better. St. George said that basically we were all just spiralling down the toilet bowl, and he got a kick out of watching.
 
That was a personal choice. He said he wouldn't save the world. That doesn't mean that he didn't show us which path to take if we wanted to make a difference.


:thing: :doom: :thing:
 
Carlin points out our mistakes. That's how he shows us the way. If X is a mistake then perhaps we should do Y.


:thing: :doom: :thing:
 
I'm kinda glad niihilism isn't a beneficial trait to pass on :p

I won't be passing on ANYthing. No way I wanna do anything to increase this doomed species.

Carlin points out our mistakes. That's how he shows us the way. If X is a mistake then perhaps we should do Y.


:thing: :doom: :thing:

Then why did he never say, "Learn from me. I'm telling you what you're doing wrong. Do the opposite, and everything will work out OK."?
 
"Ya got people like this around you? The country's full of 'em now. People walkin' around all day long, every minute of the day, worried about everything. Worried about the air, worried about the water, worried about the soil. Worried about insecticides, pesticides, food additives, carcinogens, worried about radon gas, worried about asbestos, worried about saving endangered species. Let me tell ya about endangered species, alright? Saving endangered species is just one more arrogant attempt by humans to control nature. It's arrogant meddling, it's what got us in trouble in the first place. Doesn't anybody understand that? Interfering with nature. Over 90%, over, WAY over, 90% of all the species that have ever lived on this planet, EVER lived, are gone. WHISHT! They're extinct. We didn't kill them all. They just disappeared. That's what nature does. They disappear these days at the rate of 25 a day, and I mean regardless of our behaviour. Irrespective of how we act on this planet, 25 species that were here today will be gone tomorrow. Let them go gracefully. Leave nature alone. Haven't we done enough? We're so self-important, so self-important. Everybody's gotta save somethin' now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all, save the planet. What? Are these f***ing people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the f***in' planet? I'm gettin' tired of that s***, tired of that s***, tired. I'm tired of f***in' Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois, liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People tryin' to make the world safe for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a s*** about the planet, they don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't, not in the abstract they don't. Ya know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened, self-interest doesn't impress me. Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are f***ed. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doin' great. Been here 4 and a half billion years. Did ya ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here 4 and a half billion years. We've been here what? A hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand. And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus 4 and a half billion. And we have the conceit to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun? The planet has been through a lot worse than us, been through all kindsa things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sunspots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles, hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring Ice Ages, and we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet isn't goin' anywhere. WE are. We're goin' away. Pack your s***, folks. We're goin' away. And we won't leave much of a trace either, thank God for that. Maybe a little Styrofoam, maybe. A little Styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance. If ya wanna know how the planet's doin', ask those people at Pompeii who are frozen into position from volcanic ash how the planet's doin'. Wanna know if the planet's alright, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places, buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. How about those people in Kīlauea, Hawaii, who build their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room. The planet will be here for a long, long, LOOOOOOONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, cos that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the Earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new paradigm, the Earth + plastic. The Earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the Earth. The Earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the Earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place, it wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old philosophical question, why are we here? "Plastic, a**holes!" So the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now, and I think that's really started already, don't you? I mean to be fair, the planet probably sees us as a mild threat, something to be dealt with, and I'm sure the planet will defend itself in the manner of a large organism, like a beehive or an ant colony can muster a defence, I'm sure the planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet trying to defend against this pesky, troublesome species? "Let's see. What might - hmmm. VIRUSES. Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And, uh, viruses are tricky, always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps this first virus could be one that compromises the immune system of these creatures, perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along, and maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction." Well that's a poetic note, and it's a start, and I can dream, can't I? So don't worry about the little things. Bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order, call it whatcha want. Know what I call it? The big electron. The big electron. WOOOH, WOOOH, WOOOH. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we, for a little while."

- George Carlin

Now that's what I call an inconvenient truth.

- Me
A-****ing-men. Beautiful. I couldn't agree more. :up:
 
THE NEW TOOLS TO FIGHT GLOBAL WARMING?
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/10/local/me-roofs10

Builders have known for decades that white roofs reflect the sun’s rays and lower the cost of air conditioning. But now scientists say they have quantified a new benefit: slowing global warming.

If the 100 biggest cities in the world installed white roofs and changed their pavement to more reflective materials – say, concrete instead of asphalt-based material – the global cooling effect would be massive, according to data released Tuesday at California’s annual Climate Change Research Conference in Sacramento.

Since 2005, the Golden State has required that flat commercial structures have white roofs. Next year, new and retrofitted residential and commercial buildings, with both flat and sloped roofs, will have to install heat-reflecting roofing, as part of an energy-efficient building code.
But the state has yet to pass any rules to encourage cooler pavement on its roads, which are largely coated with heat-absorbing asphalt, a cheap byproduct of oil refining.

According to Hashem Akbari, a physicist with the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, a 1,000-square-foot roof – the average size on an American home – offsets 10 metric tons of planet-heating carbon dioxide emissions in the atmosphere if dark-colored shingles or coatings are replaced with white material.

Globally, roofs account for 25% of the surface of most cities, and pavement accounts for about 35%. If all were switched to reflective material in 100 major urban areas, it would offset 44 metric gigatons of greenhouse gases, which have been trapping heat in the atmosphere and altering the climate on a potentially dangerous scale.

That is more than all the countries on Earth emit in a single year. And, with global climate negotiators focused on limiting a rapid increase in emissions, installing cool roofs and pavements would offset more than 10 years of emissions growth, even without slashing industrial pollution.

Things that make you 'hmmm...'
 
No... I don't mind Al push to go Green. I support that as long as the market can support it... the technology. The method of moving the world to become more Green base of unfoundless studies is beyond me.
The studies aren't baseless, though.

Excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is bad news, even IF the current climate change trend isn't man-made. People need to get educated as to why. The rampant ignorance is really disturbing.
 
It makes perfect sense (yet another case of us taking a page out of the book of mother nature), but I had no idea that it could really be all that effective on that type of scale.

That's pretty cool.
It's definately worth a shot.
 
But look at what you are saying "Carbon dioxide is bad even if it isn't cause by man-made".... then tell me, what are you going to do against nature, tax the world into oblivion. Until the technology catches up where it's marketly viable, I don't think it's healthy economically to force Green Technologies down the our throat.

Maybe that's just me.... I think the market will determine when these different technologies are ready for the consumers.
 
It seems that concrete is a more cost effective way to build roads, too. Asphalt is always cracking and in need of being tarred.
 
But look at what you are saying "Carbon dioxide is bad even if it isn't cause by man-made".... then tell me, what are you going to do against nature, tax the world into oblivion. Until the technology catches up where it's marketly viable, I don't think it's healthy economically to force Green Technologies down the our throat.

Maybe that's just me.... I think the market will determine when these different technologies are ready for the consumers.
That first sentence would make sense if that's what I actually said.

I'm saying that even if CLIMATE CHANGE is not caused by our Carbon emissions, our carbon emissions are still doing harm in other ways (as well as other industrial pollutants).
 
Global cooling, global warming...whats the difference?

This is exactly why the radical environmentalists no longer use the term "global warming". They instead use "climate change". gets hot? Climate change! gets cold? Climate change! Lots of hurricance? Climate change! No hurricanes? Climate change!

Its the old trickaroo...no matter what happens, their position is supported.
 
We are ruining this planet no matter what. With carbon dioxide, trash, non biodegradable materials, deforestation, etc...until the Earth corrects itself and that is without us:o
 
The earth goes through cycles. Doesnt matter if we're here or not, it will happen anyway IMO.
I do think we are harming the enviroment, but not to the extent that it's causing a global climate change.
 
Global cooling, global warming...whats the difference?

This is exactly why the radical environmentalists no longer use the term "global warming". They instead use "climate change". gets hot? Climate change! gets cold? Climate change! Lots of hurricance? Climate change! No hurricanes? Climate change!

Its the old trickaroo...no matter what happens, their position is supported.
Um...no.

All the proponents of the climate change theory say is that anomalous weather could be explained by anthropogenic climate change. There is good reason to believe that climate change can affect water transport cycles (both atmospheric and terrestrial/oceanic), and can consequently affect more violent phenomena like hurricanes. That we haven't conclusively seen that effect doesn't mean it's an impossibility, especially given what we know about some events that occur semi-frequently...like El Nino.

Furthermore, anomalous "patches" of cold weather can be explained by many of the same factors. These are instances of weather, not necessarily climate, which is reflective of much larger overall trends and patterns (and certainly encompasses weather events).

This means that you can have strange instances of extreme cold weather and still experience a trend of global warming as a larger climate pattern.

HOWEVER, having said this, I'm still interested in the cooling data. If they can verify a period of cooling (and relate it to past events...this is more important than people think) on a global scale and come to a better consensus, THEN it's time to rethink things. :up:

In the meantime, it certainly couldn't hurt for us to make an effort NOT to **** up the global environment, which we are doing with or without "global warming."

Excess CO2 is bad, m'kay?
 
The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) has in a preliminary report has concluded that last year the global mean temperature was 14.3 °C which makes 2008 “the tenth warmest year on a record that dates back to 1850.”

“The ten warmest years on record have occurred since 1997. Global temperatures for 2000-2008 now stand almost 0.2 °C warmer than the average for the decade 1990–1999.”

Climate scientists at the Met Office Hadley Centre and the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at University of East Anglia says that the global mean temperature for 2008 “is slightly down on earlier years” due to La Nina, an ocean-atmosphere phenomenon that has a cooling effect on the earth.


“Climate scientists at the Met Office Hadley Centre and the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at University of East Anglia maintain the global climate record for the WMO. They say this figure is slightly down on earlier years this century partly because of the La Niña that developed in the Pacific Ocean during 2007.

La Niña events typically coincide with cooler global temperatures, and 2008 is slightly cooler than the norm under current climate conditions. Professor Phil Jones at the CRU said: “The most important component of year-to-year variability in global average temperatures is the phase and amplitude of equatorial sea-surface temperatures in the Pacific that lead to La Niña and El Niño events”.”

I wrote about La Nina and the cooling effect it had for global temperatures during the first half of 2008 in September last year. Back then John Kennedy, climate monitoring and research scientist at the Met Office’s Hadley Centre, expected that 2008 would be the 10th warmest year since 1850.

“2008 will still be significantly above the long-term average,” and that “there’s been a strong upward trend in the last few decades, and that’s the thing to focus on,” Kennedy said back then. And it seems he was correct.

The new report concludes that “human influence, particularly emission of greenhouse gases, has greatly increased the chance of having such warm years”.

“Dr Peter Stott of the Met Office says our actions are making the difference: “Human influence, particularly emission of greenhouse gases, has greatly increased the chance of having such warm years. Comparing observations with the expected response to man-made and natural drivers of climate change it is shown that global temperature is now over 0.7 °C warmer than if humans were not altering the climate.”

Calculating the changing risk attributable to human influence is part of an ongoing collaboration between the Met Office Hadley Centre and the University of Oxford. Commenting on the dramatically increased odds of such warm years because of human induced climate change, Dr Myles Allen from Oxford University said: “Globally this year would have been considered warm, even as recently as the 1970s or 1980s, but a scorcher for our Victorian ancestors.”

Beneath the underlying warming, temperature continues to fluctuate from year to year as a result of natural variations. Stott added: “As a result of climate change, what would once have been an exceptionally unusual year has now become quite normal. Without human influence on climate change we would be more than 50 times less likely of seeing a year as warm as 2008.”"
 
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